RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (Full Version)

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Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 7:43:33 PM)

Okay, first let's take up the issue of the Alps and the Italians. With a fine weather impulse, I have the choice of reinforcing Nice from Marseilles, or making a run for Toulouse. I chose the later, because if the Italians really want it, they can take Nice, even if reinforced, and then there's nothing left to retreat with. I will admit, though, that this may be premature.

I'm using the CAV to ZOC the mountain passes.

[image]local://upfiles/38062/4AAE3B77E562429085594A963EF27293.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 7:50:53 PM)

And now, for the restructured French defensive lines. The reason I like the MOT in Paris is because it has the most movement points, and a good combat factor. I'd rather use it to plug a hole after the coming attack than placing it on the front lines right now. Otherwise, I've tried to create an un-Blitzable shield, but I just don't really have anyone to plug that hole SW of Lille, unless I put the MOT there, which is a possibility.

The Reims hex bothers me. In my last game, this is roughly what I did with my defense, and the Germans used the O-chit to break the Maginot Line instead of using it elsewhere. That allowed them to completely outflank the French force. Last time, though, there was a German MTN that was causing trouble in the southern part of the country, and there isn't one now.
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Edit: I should add, that if I'm lucky, I might be able to use a combined impulse for the CW next time up, in order to get the BEF into France, but I'm not sure if it will be useful or successful. I may need to do some very creative thinking to get it done. I'll look into it while you are checking out the new defense.
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Anyway, here is my revision:

[image]local://upfiles/38062/35DDFA7D19C049868EA786D86EC68443.jpg[/image]




Centuur -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 9:09:36 PM)

You'll want another mistake you've made: here is one... The Netherlands got DOW'ed on last turn. Where to set up the Dutch TRS... answer: far, far away from the Netherlands in NEI. So no capture or destruction possible by the Germans... The more TRS you've got, the better it is for the CW. TRS are the most important units for the CW, since they have to move so many units over long distances at sea.

Now, prudent CW play regarding the use of land units in the first turn is:

At setup the spare INF goes into Malta and a gun goes into Gibraltar
In SO 1939: get the BEF (2 units) into France and an infantry unit to Gibraltar. You've now got 2 units in Gibraltar, so the Italians can't grab it. There's very much time left in the game to get a second infantry type unit into the place, before things are getting out of hand on the Iberian peninsula. Also, the BEF is in place and bolstering the French defense.
Next turn, add a unit to the BEF, so Gort can move out of the frontline.
In most games, the Germans wouldn't be able to attack Lille at all before 1940. You've got bad luck with the weather in the first turn, which is the reason the Germans have already conquered Belgium.

However, I don't want to blame you. WiF is a very, very difficult game. Personally, I've made a lot of the same mistakes in the past with the game. I probably will make some mistakes, whenever I'm going to play again (it's been a while, but I really am getting back in the spirit of things, I'm probably going to look for someone to play a Vassal game, if I'm getting to understand how some things work in that program...). Especially the naval system is probably going to be my setback, since I used to have problems making decisions on what ships to put into what force.






Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 9:38:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

You'll want another mistake you've made: here is one... The Netherlands got DOW'ed on last turn. Where to set up the Dutch TRS... answer: far, far away from the Netherlands in NEI. So no capture or destruction possible by the Germans... The more TRS you've got, the better it is for the CW. TRS are the most important units for the CW, since they have to move so many units over long distances at sea.

Now, prudent CW play regarding the use of land units in the first turn is:

At setup the spare INF goes into Malta and a gun goes into Gibraltar
In SO 1939: get the BEF (2 units) into France and an infantry unit to Gibraltar. You've now got 2 units in Gibraltar, so the Italians can't grab it. There's very much time left in the game to get a second infantry type unit into the place, before things are getting out of hand on the Iberian peninsula. Also, the BEF is in place and bolstering the French defense.
Next turn, add a unit to the BEF, so Gort can move out of the frontline.
In most games, the Germans wouldn't be able to attack Lille at all before 1940. You've got bad luck with the weather in the first turn, which is the reason the Germans have already conquered Belgium.

However, I don't want to blame you. WiF is a very, very difficult game. Personally, I've made a lot of the same mistakes in the past with the game. I probably will make some mistakes, whenever I'm going to play again (it's been a while, but I really am getting back in the spirit of things, I'm probably going to look for someone to play a Vassal game, if I'm getting to understand how some things work in that program...). Especially the naval system is probably going to be my setback, since I used to have problems making decisions on what ships to put into what force.

The naval system is what gives me the most problems, too, which is why I am not particularly good playing the Allied side of things. I haven't got the hang of how long to leave units in a sea area (dropping down a box) based on likely weather and enemy forces (not to mention supply requirements), and I sometimes forget to move units when I should. My setup, as you've seen, was lacking for the CW (although I've never done it quite so badly -- I still do blame the pneumonia for that . . . I mean why else would I have 2 CA set up in Vancouver???)

The plan you laid out sounds right to me. I think I overreacted at the start of this game based on the mistakes I made in the last one. Compounds the error, really. So, maybe next time I'll be able to find a middle ground.

Of course, nobody expects Fine weather in N/D, so that was a bit of a surprise. Alas, noone excpects the Spanish Inquisition, either. [:D]

This setup isn't set in stone yet, either, but I'll probably finalize it in the next few hours. I'm having second thoughts about those units heading to Toulouse. I'm starting to think the MIL at least should go to Nice.




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 10:03:23 PM)

The set up in post #242 should suffice unless there is prolonged good weather.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 10:28:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

And now, for the restructured French defensive lines. The reason I like the MOT in Paris is because it has the most movement points, and a good combat factor. I'd rather use it to plug a hole after the coming attack than placing it on the front lines right now. Otherwise, I've tried to create an un-Blitzable shield, but I just don't really have anyone to plug that hole SW of Lille, unless I put the MOT there, which is a possibility.

The Reims hex bothers me. In my last game, this is roughly what I did with my defense, and the Germans used the O-chit to break the Maginot Line instead of using it elsewhere. That allowed them to completely outflank the French force. Last time, though, there was a German MTN that was causing trouble in the southern part of the country, and there isn't one now.
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Edit: I should add, that if I'm lucky, I might be able to use a combined impulse for the CW next time up, in order to get the BEF into France, but I'm not sure if it will be useful or successful. I may need to do some very creative thinking to get it done. I'll look into it while you are checking out the new defense.
-----
Anyway, here is my revision:

[image]local://upfiles/38062/35DDFA7D19C049868EA786D86EC68443.jpg[/image]

You are keeping the motorized in reserve in Paris, to plug a hole if one appears. But what if the Germans ground strike the hex and disorganize the Motorized? Then your reserve unit is stuck in Paris instead of holding one of the hexes in front of Paris. If you stack the Motorized with the fighter, that will also prevent the fighter from being overrun on a breakthrough.

One of things the French really have to worry about is not being able to move their units in the following impulse. The worst case is when the Germans end the turn and then start the next one. That is why having units prepositioned in the secondary line is so important. A general rule of thumb is to plan on only having half the French units that are currently organized available to move the next time you get to move. Besides becoming disorganized, the units can also be put out of supply or get stuck in enemy ZOCs and unable to maneuver.

And then there is the general rule for all wargames: hold the center. It is the primary rule in chess, for instance.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 10:56:21 PM)

I was actually planning to rebase the FTR to Paris at the end of the impulse, to prevent it from being overrun, but I'll move the MOT there, too.

And that, my friends, is likely to be the final decision for the French redeployment for this impulse. It is dinner time here, and it seems that with what is available, this is as satisfactory a defense as I can create. I think I've also decided to move the Marseilles MIL to Nice instead of retreating to Toulouse. If the Italians want that hex, they are going to have to pay for it heavily. These units can always retreat later, if necessary.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/23/2011 11:21:33 PM)

Before eating, I finished the impulse, and now I'm looking at it from the German side of things, and I'm not sure the French lines are going to hold. As you may have figured out, I like to play a game with risky attacks, and I am very much thinking that I should use the weather advantage while I've got it. It could easily be 2-3 more turns before I see another Fine impulse. If I use the O-chit, I can see a way to make 2 attacks at either 3:1 or 4:1, depending on how I deploy my bombers, and that doesn't even include the sacrificial unit in the Ardennes, which is a'gonna die horribly anyway.

I know Germany usually wants to make its attacks at much higher odds, but I'm not likely to have a chance this good for a while, so I think I'm going to try it and see what happens. For both attacks, I'll probably lose a unit (about 50% chance), though successful Ground Strikes could improve the odds of survival. In all likelyhood, my units will become disorganized, but that's part of the fun of the O-chit. Magic brings them back into service at half price, while the reinforcements continue the trek through Germany and into the Low Countries.

Yup. I've played a bit of a risky game so far, and I am hoping the choice will pay off. It's time to use the O-chit!

[image]local://upfiles/38062/DBDB271247AE48F98A5EB1D599CDB2A2.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 2:20:09 AM)

Dinner is happily in my tummy. Or at least my tummy is happy with having eaten.

I'm sure many (if not most) of you were shaking your heads when I announced my intention to use the first O-chit now, but here are the attacks that were made by using it. The attack on Lille could have gone much better, particularly since 2 of the 3 units there were disorganized in a Ground Strike.

[image]local://upfiles/38062/FBBE1DC615374AF6858E9AEFF15B29E4.jpg[/image]

And the results:

Attack on Lille: Assault, Fractional Odds .865 (Yes), Roll = 3+1 = 4 = -/1 (disorganized, French ART destroyed)
Attack on France [54, 31]: Assault, Roll = 8+1 = 9 = */2S (French INF & AT destroyed, converted to Retreat; MIL retreated SE)
Attack on Belgium [54, 32]: Blitz, Roll = Automatic = */2B
Attack on Tunis, Blitz, Fractional Odds .885 (No), Roll = 8 = */1B
***Blitz table chosen because it gives a 40% chance of survival vs. a 10% chance, and retains a 30% chance of destroying an attacker vs. a 40% chance. (Of course, it didn't work).
Attack on China [86, 143]: Assault, Roll = 7 = */2S
***Blitz would give a 70% chance of 1 unit surviving, but Assault gives a 50% chance of disorganizing the attackers. (Of course, this didn't work either).
Attack on China [79, 138]: Assault, Fractional Odds .269 (No), Roll = 4 = -/1 (disorganized)

Most of the attacks worked out fairly well, and all were only made possible by the excellent weather roll at the start of the turn.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 2:25:10 AM)

While I didn't manage to take Lille, which was the intent, the O-chit has its secondary value; the units attacking Lille and the units the CW managed to disorganize in its Ground Strike were all able to be reorganized by HQ-I von Bock. Granted, the vast majority of the German air power is used up, but I felt it was better to use it in good weather, when it could be used most effectively, than to safe it for later impulses.

Additionally, Germany was able to rebase another FTR and another LND into the area, so there's still something to fight with if needed.

[image]local://upfiles/38062/A2A8EE55892F4D82B6408E986ECF83F8.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 2:39:17 AM)

Turns out using the good weather was probably a very good idea. The new roll was a 7 (don't know why the number wasn't included when I took the snapshot). And a 7 isn't good for attacks. It could be worse, I suppose, but the French will have to try to regroup once again.

Overall, I'm not certain if the O-chit was spent well or not. It was fun, and if you ask me, that's the point of any game.

[image]local://upfiles/38062/06AB8574F73F46659C290EBECA13B892.jpg[/image]




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 4:24:39 AM)

IMO the French defence is broken, so the O-chit did its job.

Still, that means the French have absorbed an offensive chit for the Allies (talk about taking one for the team), so it's 15 bp the Germans need to scrape up somewhere if they want to replace it. I don't think they can afford it if they want to undertake a 1940 Barb.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 10:41:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

IMO the French defence is broken, so the O-chit did its job.

Still, that means the French have absorbed an offensive chit for the Allies (talk about taking one for the team), so it's 15 bp the Germans need to scrape up somewhere if they want to replace it. I don't think they can afford it if they want to undertake a 1940 Barb.

That's definitely the big question right now. I've got to decide soon which direction I'm going to go, Close the Med using conquest of France, or Vichy ASAP to get units back for a '40 Barbarossa.

I'd really like to give the Italians a chance to take over Algeria before Vichy is declared. That means I need at least 2 more impulses, probably 3 or 4 given the turn the weather has taken. Also, I have to decide if I'm going to risk some very low odds attacks in France in bad weather or not. It may be time to play more conservatively now as the Germans. For the O-chit attacks, I made sure that at least one unit in each of the 4:1 attacks was a relatively cheap unit. I may not have that luxury if I try to press in toward Paris in bad weather.

I also want to say that Steve was right about the MOT. With the unexpected use of the O-chit, that unit -- while it didn't protect against a B result (which didn't happen) -- was in position to maintain supply to the stack ahead of it in case Lille was taken (which also didn't happen).

My last thought is that I am now wondering if I should still attempt to get the BEF into France (probably Rouen), given that the French line now has a big hole in it.
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I know many of you (the Americans, at least) are going to be busy today, so I probably won't get a lot of suggestions on this. My family is actually in Maryland at the moment, and my car is half-buried by the first snowstorm of the year in my town (the earlier blizzard didn't reach us here). Since I'm still recovering from pneumonia, I'll probably not be digging my car out and going anywhere today, which means I'll have little to do. So, I am likely to be playing this game a good deal today. That means I'll probably have a bunch of mistakes for you to critique (are you ready Centuur? [sm=00000622.gif])
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Edit: If you couldn't guess, I hate winter, and I'm not talking about WiF, but the real thing. [:(]




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 2:24:27 PM)

The snow should slow down German attacks, but it doesn't slow down mobility.

Can you post a screenshot of the current situation in Northern France along with what you are thinking of doing with the French?




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 2:28:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The snow should slow down German attacks, but it doesn't slow down mobility.

Can you post a screenshot of the current situation in Northern France along with what you are thinking of doing with the French?

Sure. I'll load it up and try to make sure you can see what's in most stacks. Honestly, I'm not yet thinking of anything for France. I haven't started playing or planning yet. I should have something put together in the next hour or so.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 4:04:22 PM)

First, this is what things look like on the map in the actual game:

[image]local://upfiles/38062/D7ED6CD319A24C218046CB657A295F9A.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 4:05:45 PM)

And, while I still haven't actually thought about what to do with the French, here is the cluttered version, showing you every unit in this particular region:

[image]local://upfiles/38062/803220A7401C4C1DABB3014CCEC3C71D.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 4:18:20 PM)

And, since I'm showing what's going on in France, here's the Italian border. As it turns out, my choice to move the Marseilles MIL into Nice was probably wrong. I should have gone with my first instinct, I guess, and sent it toward Toulouse. The Italian ART made a Ground Strike/Bombardment on it, and now I won't be able to pull it back when I want to.

[image]local://upfiles/38062/96A4901EF4FD46909DF349D801A4EC81.jpg[/image]




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 4:49:59 PM)

If nothing else, your screenshots sure make the Flyouts look good.[:)]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 6:13:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

If nothing else, your screenshots sure make the Flyouts look good.[:)]

Quite a mess, isn't it? Trying to get all of those flyouts on there was a puzzle of its own. [:)]




Centuur -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:13:32 PM)

First, next time if you've got a choice of destroying a MIL or an INF, you should always destroy the MIL (even if it is the better unit). The reason for this is that that unit will of course be rebuild immediately and will also appear on the map the next turn (provided it's city is still controlled).

Second: the French made a judgment error in the setup, regarding the Italians. I personally would have set up two units on the border. One in the hex now occupied with the Italian 4-3 and another in the hex of the Italian MOT. A third one could be set up in Nice, however I prefer moving the Marseilles MIL into Toulon as one of the moves in the second turn. This forces the Italian army to fight the French head on. It's a pretty tough fight on the high slops of the passes through the Alps. There is no way he can walk around you in that case. Only the Italian MTN can walk accross an Alpine hexside, but it is immediately OOS.
The goal of the French defense is to make the Axis pay for every hex. So let him fight you. You don't run away from any fight, since doing so, means a faster collapse of the French army.

Personally, I think this part of France is really, really in shambles. First: you're goal should be to gain time. This means that the Italian MOT cannot be allowed to move freely next turn. If it does, it's going to Lyon or (even worse) to Marseilles, thus forcing you're precious BB's to rebase to a very threathened Toulon (since Corsica is already Axis territory).  There is only one unit capable to prevent this, and this is the CAV. It has to move one hex east, even if it means that it will get disorganised. Also, leaving it in the hex isn't going to do you any good anymore.
Toulon looks like a save haven for the Fleet, however, if Marseilles is captured French forces there are OOS. And if BB's are forced to rebase a second time, there isn't a place they can move to except out of France. If Vichy is than created, a lot of the territories might go to Vichy and there is even a slight possibility that Free France isn't going to get created at all. Dangerous, very dangerous to the Allied side...

Now, you're going to get the Marseilles MIL back into his home town. How: by railmoving that unit there. Yes, it's going to get disorganised, but there isn't any other unit available for this at the moment. Things are still not looking good at all, after these moves, but you haven't got any other possibilities at all. The 1-3 division should move now towards the Italians, since it might become important to stop the Italian moves next impulse.

Now for the North part of France. Problems all over the place? Not really. Yes, there's a breakthrough of the front. Yes, there is a problem regarding the defense of Paris. But you're General Staff is really optimistic about things developing: Paris in Axis hands? "Impossible"... Also, the French PM finally got his message accross to Chuchill, so Gort is going to arrive at least...
IMHO you've got to gamble now, as the French. Bad weather (snow) it there, so the fighting is going to be less effective on the German side.
First: how to repair the front. Since TAC factors are halved with this weather, the possibility of succesfull ground strikes is decreased. You should use this. It's time for you're Georges to leave his precious Chateaux with the excellent wine cellar and start to earn his pay in action. After all, you're out of reserves. Move you're Paris Mil one hex east. Move you're MTN with his INF one hex west. Move Georges and the MIL into the empty hex under the 9-4. Move the 5-4 INF SE of Lille to the hex with the MOT and move the remaining two units one hex west.
Lord Gort, would you please be so kind to disembark at least one corps in Calais and yourself into Boulogne? Rouen is far away from the action at this point. You'll need Gort to prevent the Germans from making a four hex assault on Lille at this moment...
Now, you've got only one place with one unit the Germans can attack. This is as far away from Paris as possible (and it's got an expendable MIL in it with very good combat factors) all other hexes have two units in them. I wouldn't empty the Maginot line, since he's already suffering from weather conditions (-2 odds level isn't particularly nice at all). 
Now, start praying the weather stays bad, so it will take the other German HQ's a lot of time to get to the front.




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:42:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

And, while I still haven't actually thought about what to do with the French, here is the cluttered version, showing you every unit in this particular region:

[image]local://upfiles/38062/803220A7401C4C1DABB3014CCEC3C71D.jpg[/image]


It doesn't look good for France. The French have:
- 8 mobile corps (2 of which are HQs)
- 1 division
- 4 garrison units by the Maginot Line sector
- 1 bomber & 1 fighter
- 3 disorganized corps (2 in Lille & 1 southwest of the Ardennes)

Against this, the Germans have:
- 18 mobile corps (no HQs since von Bock is disorganized and it looks like von Leeb & Rundstedt are still outside of theatre)
- 5 garrison units in the Maginot sector
- 6 divisions
- 1 bomber & 1 (twin-engine) fighter (giving the French a very slight edge as their fighter is single-engine)
- potentially more units on the way as they come back from the Balkans and/or Poland

France does have four advantages:
- the snow, which (if I recall correctly) reduces odds by 2 shifts (I don't play with 1D10 CRT so I may very well be wrong).
- no German motorized divisions (aka no cheap blitz losses)
- the disorganized Paris militia cannot (if memory serves) be overrun so it is blocking German advances and in particular transfer of German units from the Maginot sector to the central sector. (this was, I feel, an error by the Germans as they had the opportunity to shatter the unit)
- the German armoured fist is out of position as it is up on the wrong side of Lille (although the Germans can somewhat remedy this)

Given the snow I feel the French can be bold and try to keep Germans away from Paris. (If it was fine weather I would say they would have to pull back a bit to keep the Germans from getting good attacks). However, a stronger Paris defence is IMO incompatible with maintaining the current solid line along the Maginot.

To that end I suggest the following:
- the strong French stack with the AA gun stays where it is
- HQ Bilotte moves out of Paris and joins the XIX MOT corps
- HQ Georges goes to Paris
- the Lyons MIL and the XII INF corps move to the clear hex contaning the name "Seine"
- the MTN (Alpine) corps moves to the forests where HQ Georges is now

While the Germans could get a decent 3-hex attack on the AA gun stack (3:1 blitz with 67% chance of becoming 4:1 with fractional odds), given the weather it won't be very good. If they get lucky and get a breakthrough anyway they can't get any closer to Paris on their impulse. And they can't get good attacks on the hexes in front of Paris.

Over on the Maginot sector, I suggest:
- the 3-1 GARR move to the mountains (as Red Prince is using
- the 4-1 GARR in the clear move to Metz (the city with the factory & resource)
My rationale for this is that the German units in this sector are all their own slow GARR and so they can't quickly transfer to other theatres. Holding Metz with 2 corps is IMO more important than keeping those German GARR in place.

In the meantime, the CW should hold up its end and bring in a BEF to Rouen. It can always start running for Bordeaux if the situation gets really bad.




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:43:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

First, next time if you've got a choice of destroying a MIL or an INF, you should always destroy the MIL (even if it is the better unit). The reason for this is that that unit will of course be rebuild immediately and will also appear on the map the next turn (provided it's city is still controlled).


The reason for the choice was because I was expecting the unit to be OOS, and therefore wanted the white print unit still on the map.

quote:

Second: the French made a judgment error in the setup, regarding the Italians. I personally would have set up two units on the border. One in the hex now occupied with the Italian 4-3 and another in the hex of the Italian MOT. A third one could be set up in Nice, however I prefer moving the Marseilles MIL into Toulon as one of the moves in the second turn. This forces the Italian army to fight the French head on. It's a pretty tough fight on the high slops of the passes through the Alps. There is no way he can walk around you in that case. Only the Italian MTN can walk accross an Alpine hexside, but it is immediately OOS.
The goal of the French defense is to make the Axis pay for every hex. So let him fight you. You don't run away from any fight, since doing so, means a faster collapse of the French army.


That's how I started the game, but needed to move the MTN to the northern border. Exactly where are all these units you are talking about supposed to come from? The French are a little limited in the first few turns in what they have available. I even had to transport the unit from Syria to get what I've got.

quote:

Personally, I think this part of France is really, really in shambles. First: you're goal should be to gain time. This means that the Italian MOT cannot be allowed to move freely next turn. If it does, it's going to Lyon or (even worse) to Marseilles, thus forcing you're precious BB's to rebase to a very threathened Toulon (since Corsica is already Axis territory).  There is only one unit capable to prevent this, and this is the CAV. It has to move one hex east, even if it means that it will get disorganised. Also, leaving it in the hex isn't going to do you any good anymore.
Toulon looks like a save haven for the Fleet, however, if Marseilles is captured French forces there are OOS. And if BB's are forced to rebase a second time, there isn't a place they can move to except out of France. If Vichy is than created, a lot of the territories might go to Vichy and there is even a slight possibility that Free France isn't going to get created at all. Dangerous, very dangerous to the Allied side...


See the above about units. Nice is a primary supply source, too, don't forget.

quote:

Now, you're going to get the Marseilles MIL back into his home town. How: by railmoving that unit there. Yes, it's going to get disorganised, but there isn't any other unit available for this at the moment. Things are still not looking good at all, after these moves, but you haven't got any other possibilities at all. The 1-3 division should move now towards the Italians, since it might become important to stop the Italian moves next impulse.


Take another look. The Marseilles MIL was disorganized in an attack by the Italian ART. Can't rail him anywhere.

quote:

Now for the North part of France. Problems all over the place? Not really. Yes, there's a breakthrough of the front. Yes, there is a problem regarding the defense of Paris. But you're General Staff is really optimistic about things developing: Paris in Axis hands? "Impossible"... Also, the French PM finally got his message accross to Chuchill, so Gort is going to arrive at least...


True, Gort can come, but where to place him and his cohort . . .

quote:

IMHO you've got to gamble now, as the French. Bad weather (snow) it there, so the fighting is going to be less effective on the German side.


Also true. Less effective Germans. A dull knife is also less effective than a sharp one, but you can still stab someone with it. [;)]

quote:

First: how to repair the front. Since TAC factors are halved with this weather, the possibility of succesfull ground strikes is decreased. You should use this. It's time for you're Georges to leave his precious Chateaux with the excellent wine cellar and start to earn his pay in action. After all, you're out of reserves. Move you're Paris Mil one hex east.


No can do. He's disorganized.

quote:

Move you're MTN with his INF one hex west. Move Georges and the MIL into the empty hex under the 9-4. Move the 5-4 INF SE of Lille to the hex with the MOT and move the remaining two units one hex west.
Lord Gort, would you please be so kind to disembark at least one corps in Calais and yourself into Boulogne? Rouen is far away from the action at this point. You'll need Gort to prevent the Germans from making a four hex assault on Lille at this moment...


All of this is a possibility

quote:

Now, you've got only one place with one unit the Germans can attack. This is as far away from Paris as possible (and it's got an expendable MIL in it with very good combat factors) all other hexes have two units in them. I wouldn't empty the Maginot line, since he's already suffering from weather conditions (-2 odds level isn't particularly nice at all). 
Now, start praying the weather stays bad, so it will take the other German HQ's a lot of time to get to the front.


The Paris MIL being disorganized might ruin your entire plan, my friend. I think praying for bad weather might be the best option for the French.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:44:38 PM)

The Paris Mil is disorganized (the orange status indicator).

[image]local://upfiles/16701/646235F4A11E468EA4D694884F9B9825.jpg[/image]




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:50:38 PM)

quote:

- 1 bomber & 1 (twin-engine) fighter (giving the French a very slight edge as their fighter is single-engine)

Actually, the French don't have the advantage here. Both of those units are disorganized, so they have no air force.

I'll have to play with both plans presented and see what they look like. Might not get this done today, as I'm actually playing a few other games at the moment, and I'm enjoying the fact that they don't really use my brain at all.[:)]




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:51:14 PM)

To me it seems the Paris MIL is in a perfect spot to block the German advance on their next impulse and might be the only unit they attack (unless they are feeling really lucky).




composer99 -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 7:56:17 PM)

Also, if you are feeling like attacking the strong French AA hex anyway, as insurance against a breakthrough, Bilotte can move behind that stack to the hex SW of Lille and something else can take his place with the MOT (leaving the forest hex along the Seine empty, 1 unit in Paris, and 2 units in the hex W of the Paris MIL).




brian brian -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 8:04:14 PM)

hey there, Happy Thanksgiving! It sure is nice watching my football team looking so good after so many years of futility......half-time now, I wish they would have canned Nickelback. Yuck.

going back to the USE situation in this game, I thought you had already played N/D 39 and most of the DOWs, including on Belgium, had happened then. I can only check in here every few days, and frequently on a dial-up too poor to wait for all the pictures. So as for how to play or not play with the USE system, there are several things I would do differently. I would never DOW anyone in N/D 39 as the Axis most likely.....just too much risk of a high USE chit, a risk that lowers substantially just one turn later. So two DOW and two alignments on that turn would not be a good idea. Similarly, I don't think I would ever issue two Italian DOWs on the West.....either way, you are handing things to the Allies, either a 2nd USE chit, or letting the CW do their own declaration and surprise impulse during the Italian war with France, at a somewhat lower cost, USE wise.

A small thing that contributed to the USE mess the Axis are facing now, is the Japanese alignment of Siam. A small chance of a chit, but chit values are huge in 1939, and of course magnified greatly in MWiF as we see in this game once again with the US holding 4 four chits and 1 five chit.....nearly astronomically impossible with cardboard chits, substantially less so with unlimited chits....so this is yet another MWiF game with a probability spike in this key game system. But anyway, that decision was the same as the decision to reinforce Gibraltar rather than France......you are responding to future threats far too early. For Siam, unless the CW infantry division is in range to land, there is no need at all to align Siam in 1939. Late 1940 is a far better choice. For that matter, I would probably let a silly Allied player take a 50% shot of a USE hit and do the Declaration and then sail any odd Peacekeeper available into Bangkok....a good Japanese always has troops in port waiting for the Russians to hand them the free oil in Persia, and a single 1-4 INF division can't land in Bangkok on it's own, and I believe it is no longer a land-able hex on the MWiF map anyway. There is little chance the CW can spare the troops to actually take Siam with any unit in Bangkok, and even if they do....so what? They can hardly defend the place either as it has no overland supply links, and the Japanese will soon become the absolute masters of the South China Sea for years to come. On the Japanese surprise impulse they can land anywhere on the Malayan peninsula they choose. So in World in Flames, while you do have to keep your enemy's potential moves in your plans, responding to them too early costs too much at the current front.

Also, for your Med strategy involving aligning Yugoslavia ... what happens if the Russians don't demand Bessarabia? This is part of the question of playing solitaire each side as best as possible, or playing a test game to see what happens when you combine certain decisions on each side. I see you doing much more of the latter, making decisions for one side based on already knowing what the other side is going to do. An educational way to learn the game, to be sure, but not something you can use in a real game. One small example of that was setting up the CW pipelines knowing the Netherlands would be in the game on the first turn. What if the Germans hadn't attacked the Netherlands until late 41/early 42?

Moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Habor was a very good choice for the long run....however that is a tricky option to learn. You can't manipulate tension until all of the 10 ships are actually in Pearl Harbor. And it takes four impulses just to get them out to sea, and at least one end-of-turn Return to base phase to get the Fleet into port. And the US Entry phase comes before the Return to Base phase. So the best way to play this option is to decide it mentally the turn before, and then slowly send the US BBs out to sea before you play it. Oil cost is irrelevant to a neutral US not yet loaning out resources to the West, so you might as well make the Japanese sweat with any naval moves not needed for reinforcements.... but unless it is a very long summer turn of 7 impulses for the Allies, it is impossible to get the whole Fleet to Pearl all in one turn on time to manipulate Tension the turn after you play this option.

I do think France First is a valid Axis strategy choice. But you makes your choices and you take your chances. A 1st US Gear-up in J/F 1940 is a heavy, heavy price to pay and by 1943 the Axis will be experiencing Shock & Awe. On the Allied side, they have to prepare for it during set-up before the Germans. To just ignore it once the Germans pull the trigger, well, the Allies will be living in interesting times in this game. A key Allied response is to use their surprise impulse bonus die on each ground strike to flip any German HQs in the West. My French bomber once got one of the dice to ring up the lucky "1" on Rundstedt in the woods on the second impulse. The German player eventually blamed his loss of the game on that. It is a very high risk strategy.


Someone mentioned learning to select ships when putting together a task force. One of the more annoying types of opponents I have played is the one who puts all their sea-box forces together based on maximizing their factors on the combat charts. That's OK on your own time in an email game. In person, factor counters drive me nuts and my favorite rule in wargaming ever I think has been fractional odds for land combat in WiF. Just throw in a unit and it helps. The naval system doesn't have that. There are two easy things to learn....always send out 2, 4, 7, or 11 ships to a box. 3, 5, or 8 are bad choices. Also, when selecting ships, send the ones with more AA factors to the sea zones where they will face air attack. So the USN and RN need to keep their low AA ships in the Atlantic, their high AA ships in the Med. The Japanese need the high AA ships in the Central Pacific or wherever they expect to face the main American CV fleet, and the low AA ships escorting things in interior areas.




brian brian -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 8:12:47 PM)

I guess actually the US could get the Fleet to Pearl in just four impulses by moving them port-to-port after playing the option to allow that move, rather than just sending them to a sea-box....it's been awhile. I think I need to play some actual World in Flames...




Red Prince -> RE: MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR) (11/24/2011 8:47:31 PM)

Just a note: the CW began with the Burma TERR at setup, so there would have been no need for them to land anyone anywhere. He could have walked in. That doesn't negate your point. It is just something to know.

quote:

Also, for your Med strategy involving aligning Yugoslavia ... what happens if the Russians don't demand Bessarabia? This is part of the question of playing solitaire each side as best as possible, or playing a test game to see what happens when you combine certain decisions on each side. I see you doing much more of the latter, making decisions for one side based on already knowing what the other side is going to do. An educational way to learn the game, to be sure, but not something you can use in a real game. One small example of that was setting up the CW pipelines knowing the Netherlands would be in the game on the first turn. What if the Germans hadn't attacked the Netherlands until late 41/early 42?


It was stated in the beginning that a certain set of conditions would be played in the Balkans. You do have a good point, but in this case it is moot, since I would like to run a game similar to the one that I lost, which included a test that I was not yet able to complete -- verifying that Rumania as a full Axis ally could indeed move all of its troops out of the country without any trouble.

As for fleet configurations, I'm not troubled by how many factors each ship has. I don't count them, I just estimate. My main confusion tends to be how many of each type I should include in a fleet of 11, let's say. It all depends on where you are sending it, of course. It's figuring that part out, and remembering to include convoy points in the count that tends to give me trouble.




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