RE: Week 59 Production Figures (Full Version)

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Peltonx -> RE: Week 59 Production Figures (8/7/2012 9:50:32 PM)

I made the first statement based on the rule book without thinking longer term.

After some games got past 43, I could see that the data showed that HI could be a factor in some games. Mainly close games of which there are few.

This fight in this AAR is great!! [&o] [sm=00000613.gif] [sm=character0272.gif]
The GHc was forsed to attack, but the hvy loses can cause the German army to fall apart early.

M60 doesn't have to cover much ground, after this GHC gamble is over (3 turns?) SHC should be able to start generall attacks across the front.

SHC might not gain much ground but it is very important to attack at least 16 times per turn as this should be enough to cause the GHC manpower numbers to start falling and more importantly morale. At about 3.0 to 3.2 million the german army becomes mush.

The German panzer units will recover fairly quickly, but the infantry never recover.



bigbaba -> RE: Week 59 Production Figures (8/7/2012 11:11:11 PM)

what a fantastic battle.

that's maybe the most intresting AAR i have the plesure to read.

a game can go this thrilling way or like my game against gids (i play german) where i am in the defensive and it`'s a static world war I style battle for 1 hex after the other.

it realy seems that you did'nt lost your nerv and are able to turn a disaster into a great victory for the red army.



smokindave34 -> RE: Week 59 Production Figures (8/8/2012 1:28:29 AM)

Thanks for sharing this AAR - that was quite a scare for the Red Army and seems like you have turned a potential disaster into a great opporunity to hammer those exposed panzers. By the way I also really enjoy your comments, they add quiet a bit to the "immersion factor"!



M60A3TTS -> Week 108 (8/8/2012 4:49:33 AM)

WEEK 108 - JULY 8 1943

Thanks for the comments. Without them it's hard to tell if the AAR is worth doing.

The Axis forces are beginning to give ground. Units from Bryansk Front advance on Gomel. Zhukov's Steppe Front pushes southwest between the Sozh and Sudost Rivers. Four German infantry divisions are bypassed. Farther south, Voronezh and Southern Fronts are driving the Hungarian and German units west off the Sula.

The Luftwaffe is showing distinct signs of suffering from the demands of flying mission upon mission against ever increasing numbers of modern Soviet aircraft and pilots becoming more experienced by the week. German operational aircraft total a little over 1600 with a readiness rate is 58% compared to almost 14,000 operational aircraft and a 83% readiness rate for the VVS.

[image]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1167/week108.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5395/t108losses.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 108 (8/8/2012 4:53:18 AM)

[image]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/585/farweek108.jpg[/image]

The Soviet fighter forces are honing their skills and wearing the enemy down. In this one battle the JU-87 force is decimated.
[image]http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4582/fart108air.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Week 108 (8/8/2012 8:28:39 AM)

This could be his first game thats gone into 1943.

By the looks of things it is. Attacking and defending as GHC require 2 different skill sets and not many poeple have done both.

If the GHC in this game does not go over to the defensive very quickly things will come appart very quickly.

Very nice job M60. Keep the pressure on. I did not expect such a good offensive so quickly.

A loss ratio under 3:1 is a good thing for you



M60A3TTS -> Weeks 109 and 110 (8/12/2012 6:00:13 PM)

WEEKS 109 & 110 - 7/15/43 to 7/22/43

The drive west towards Kiev picks up steam as five German divisions are initially isolated. Three manage to break free, but the 131st and 296th Infantry divisions northeast of Gomel are forced to lay down their arms.

In the Gorky sector, the Wehrmacht begins a general withdrawal westwards. The Red Army moved forward in this area.

Pavel Rotmistrov's 1st Tank Army is re-designated 1st Guards Tank Army.

Ivan Boldin's 19th Army is re-desginated 1st Guards Army.

[image]http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9665/1gaand1gta.jpg[/image]

The commander of the Central Front, Maksim Purkaev, is promoted to General-Armii.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Weeks 109 and 110 (8/12/2012 6:03:30 PM)

[image]http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/345/gorkit110.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8171/far110south.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 111 (8/12/2012 6:22:21 PM)

WEEK 111 - 7/29/43

Marshal Zhukov's Steppe Front and General-Leytenant Malinovsky's Southwestern Front continues to attack relentlessly towards Kiev. Several Hungarian divisions and two German divisions are isolated.
[image]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5528/week111advancetokiev.jpg[/image]

General-Armii Vasily Sokolovsky's 37th Army is re-designated 2nd Guards Army.
[image]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2144/2ndgdsarmy.jpg[/image]

One recent and troublesome trend is that for the last three weeks arms factories have again been faced with supply shortfalls from heavy industry. But this may be due to the fact that the Red Army is once again pushing over 7 million in the ranks.

The Wehrmacht continues to see a thinning of its ranks.
[image]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7480/oobt111.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 112 (8/15/2012 4:36:34 AM)

WEEK 112 - 8/5/43

Farfarer demonstrates an unwillingness to relinquish the initiative on the Eastern Front. He sends the forces of Model and Von Manstein into the attack across the Lower Dnepr. Three pockets are created in order to disrupt the continuing Red Army offensive. Soviet counterattacks break all of the pockets and proceed to isolate several divisions of Von Stulpnagel's 17th Army along with several Hungarian divisions southeast of Chernigov. The 1st Guards Mechanized Corps of Chernyakhovsky's 2nd Shock reaches the outskirts of East Kiev.

Along the Upper Dnepr, soldiers of the Red Army advance north towards the Dvina in the area around Vitebsk. The Drut has been cleared and forces advance westwards towards the Berezina and Ulla Rivers.

Mikhail Efremov's 21st Army of the Bryansk Front is re-designated 3rd Guards Army
Pavel Batov's 58th Army of Southwestern Front with its four mechanized corps is re-designated 4th Guards Army

Vasily Chuikov of 41st Army is promoted to General-Armii.

One other note, Trifon Shevaldin was replaced as commander of Voronezh Front with General-Armii Andrei Eremenko. Stalin held Shevaldin largely responsible for allowing the fascists to create the opportunity of isolating the Upper Dnepr armies. Rumor has it that the former front commander is now commanding a rifle division on the Manchurian border, barely escaping assignment to a forced labor camp.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 112 (8/15/2012 4:43:50 AM)

Initial Axis attacks in the south
[image]http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9356/fart112offensive.jpg[/image]

Soviet Counterattacks
[image]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9625/t112kiev.jpg[/image]

Upper Dnepr Operations
[image]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9977/upperdneprt112.jpg[/image]

Re-designations and Promotions
[image]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2839/t112promos.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 113 (8/15/2012 5:37:19 AM)

WEEK 113 - 8/12/43

The Axis forces continue to try to reform their pockets in the area around Dnepropetrovsk. It's a hodgepodge of Red Army units as various divisions are called upon to isolate the panzer forces and confound their effort to delay the destruction of their forces.
[image]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9851/t113kiev.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4581/t113lowerdnepr.jpg[/image]

In the Chernigov-Kiev sector, two fascist divisions are forces to capitulate. The German 17th Army is becoming increasingly isolated.
[image]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8129/axissurrenderst113.jpg[/image]

In operatiions on the far eastern edge of the Dvina, over 8,000 guns including 3,400 of Central Front's 2nd Artillery Army fire in support of the Red Army's attempt to storm the city of Vitebsk. The Germans are driven from this strategically located city which now provides the Red Army with a solid base from which further moves west can continue.
[image]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9034/fart113vitebsk2.jpg[/image]
[image]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4798/2ndartilleryarmy.jpg[/image]



76mm -> RE: Week 113 (8/15/2012 8:10:02 AM)

Wow, awesome AAR! You probably posted it previously, but could you show your production screen again? I'd like see how many HI, AP, and manpower points you're working with.



M60A3TTS -> Week 114 (8/15/2012 4:13:32 PM)

WEEK 114 - 8/19/43

A number of German divisions are sent reeling back over the Dnepr under the weight of incessant attacks by the Red Army.

Fascist counterattacks manage to re-establish a temporary lifeline to 17th Army east of Kiev which is quickly cut.

At Vitebsk-Mogilev, preparations are being made to drive the enemy from their entrnchments west of the Berezina-Ulla Rivers.

Since the start of the summer, German forces have dropped some 400,000 while the Red Army has gained about as many. In all categories, farfarer is losing ground. Here is a comparison.
[image]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9549/week100114oob.jpg[/image]

Production figures as requested.
[image]http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5548/week114production.jpg[/image]

In another thread there was a question on how to organize mobile corps within armies. Here is how I have mine. There are three pure cavalry armies commanded by Tolbukhin (5th Shock/Steppe Front), Rybalko (24th/Steppe Front) and Volsky (65th/Southern Front). 1st Shock and 4th Guards of Southwestern Front are pure mechanized, and the four tank armies all have four corps. The effect on the tank armies being one over the command limit seems to be negligible. Two of other three shock armies are a mix of mechanized/tank which works well. I will get 3rd Shock Army, the last to reorg, to that state as well in a few weeks. One remaining army, Issa Pliev's 57th is cavalry/tank. Outside of that there are a couple cav corps and a tank corps assigned to a single army each which is just how it worked out.
[image]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2038/week114mobileformations.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 114 (8/15/2012 4:17:41 PM)

The enemy thrown back
[image]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5253/week114lowerdnepr.jpg[/image]


Vitebsk-Mogilev
[image]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1267/week114vitebskmogilev.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 114 (8/15/2012 4:32:25 PM)

By going 1 over the command limit you are essentially negating the bonus that tank armies provide. They can function adequately doing so, but it also makes buying said armies pointless; you may as well use an ordinary army and get that up to guards status which at least gives four mobile corps an admin bonus. (Or, alternately, use shock armies, but if they are already being used for cavalry, then that's not going to be available.)

I personally would stick to 3 corps per tank army. Having 7 mech leaders (or 9 mech in the case of Rotmitstrov) is very nice. You do not have a large number of strong mech leaders to begin with (and for the Soviets "strong" means an unadjusted raitng of 6, as they have virtually no leaders above this save Zhukov and Rotmitstrov) and diluting their quality by overloading seems dubious to me.

You could go the other way with this: just don't build any tank armies at all and focus on getting guards status on as many armies as possible, shifting mobile assets to these HQs over time. But I'm doubting this is particularly cost effective over the long run once you factor in the costs of transferring corps around.

Farfarer is doubling down and in very real danger of burning out the Wehrmacht. He may momentarily delay you with these suicidal tactics but the long term outlook for him is bleak. He's seriously overextended up north, too.



76mm -> RE: Week 114 (8/15/2012 6:06:04 PM)

Your manpower, heavy industry, and AP totals are interesting. I've just got to the mud in a current game, and have not evacced a single HI point, but still have 159 vs your 119. I've been focusing on getting out AP, and have 352 vs your 311. And yet your manpower numbers are higher than mine (2600 vs 2400), I guess because you're doing so well in the south. Bottom line is that it sounds like you really need to get low on HI before encountering the problems that you have?



bigbaba -> RE: Week 114 (8/15/2012 7:17:09 PM)

when i see the outcome of this amazing battle and the disaster for the wehrmacht i am realy happy that as the axis player i stopped all offensive actions from late 42 and went into full defensive modus against gids with 2.6m vs. 9.6m loses so far.

the german player should realy know when enough is enough and it's time to defend what you have.

now you have him in more or less unprepared positions and the winter offensive should be very intresting to read.



M60A3TTS -> Week 115 (8/16/2012 12:39:47 AM)

WEEK 115 - 8/26/43

German radio carries the news that successful attacks by their forces and those of their Rumanian allies have bagged 8 Soviet divisions at Tokmak.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/T115south.jpg[/image]

They must also report that despite courageous fighting against overwhelming odds, 12 Hungarian and German divisions have been forced to surrender in the area of Nezhin.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/t115pocket.jpg[/image]

In the Vitebsk-Mogilev sector a series of attacks begin that is designed to break down the fortifications along the Berezina-Ulla.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/VitebskMogilevt115.jpg[/image]



hfarrish -> RE: Week 115 (8/16/2012 1:47:52 AM)


Surprised Farfarer is not disbanding his FZs before they come under threat...as always, great AAR - I would make my "as always" recommendation to show your defensive CVs rather than movement; the former paints a better picture of the military situation, I think...

But keep up the good work!



Peltonx -> RE: Week 114 (8/16/2012 2:31:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

when i see the outcome of this amazing battle and the disaster for the wehrmacht i am realy happy that as the axis player i stopped all offensive actions from late 42 and went into full defensive modus against gids with 2.6m vs. 9.6m loses so far.

the german player should realy know when enough is enough and it's time to defend what you have.

now you have him in more or less unprepared positions and the winter offensive should be very intresting to read.


I think GHC(Farfarer) could have stayed on the offensive in 1943.

If you read back GHC got a nice pocket around D-Town in March(turn 90) and M60 was way down in the dumps.

GHC had the upper hand on a limited basis, but bit off way more then it was capable of swallowing.

After March the threat of a German Offensive was all that was needed to keep M60 from being overly agressive.

But once the fight was jioned M60 now clearly has the upper hand.

76mm the reason M60 has more manpower is because he held the Donets region, which has more manpower points then Moscow.

Which is why I was confident that M60 had the upper hand while most were doubting. The game mainly is about manpower centers now. Flaviusx evac plan is the best. Its flexable enough so you can evac 5-10 or more HI points and you still have more then enough armament pts for later in war.

The game for SHC is about 1943. If you can't start moving the lines west in 1943 you will not get it done in 1944.

M60 has done an amazing good job. He set up his defences and kept a strong reserve so he could counter GHC.

Very very few poeple have any exp after September 1942. Exp can be winning or losing exp as long as you learn from it.

GHC offensive in the north during 1942 did not flip that many manpower centers. The GHC should have cleared Moscow area then headed down and cleared Donets. This would have bagged way more manpower centers and pushed the front to the east of D-town by 30-40 hexes-game set match.




M60A3TTS -> Week 116 (8/16/2012 2:01:21 PM)

WEEK 116 - 9/2/43

The Red Army is over the Berezina in strength and 40 miles from Minsk.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/Minsk116.jpg[/image]

In the south, the panzers run loose but do not appear to be threatening an attack in force. 8th Panzer reaches the outskirts of Stalino but does not attempt an attack on the city garrison. Farfarer seems satisfied with tearing up rail and isolating the city by simply running around it. Our mobile reserves in the area maintain a discreet distance from them in order to be able to react to any eventuality.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/south116.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 117 (8/16/2012 2:28:36 PM)

WEEK 117 - 9/9/43

Following a meeting with Stalin and senior Red Army commanders in the Soviet capital of Kharkov, Konstantin Rokossovsky is sent to take command of Western Front. He essentially swaps places with Mikhail Kovalev who takes Rokossovsky's former role with the Kalinin Front. (That cost 51 AP. Ouch.)

Western and Central Front attacks push increasing forces over the Berezina-Ulla.

In the south, the SS has appeared but most enemy units appear to be pulling back. A careful advance by our screening units reclaim lost ground.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/South117.jpg[/image]

At Smolensk and Gomel, the railyards are busy unloading units which then move west along specific routes designated to maximize concealment from the eyes of the Luftwaffe.



bigbaba -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 2:36:31 PM)

oh my...look at all this ant infantry divisions. did you fly recon missions deep into the enemy terrotiry to find out if he has any kind of fort line prepared?

if he has not a level 4 fort belt behind the front you may be in poland in winter.

congratulation for this great victorious battle which looked like a lost battle for a long time.[&o]



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 2:42:00 PM)

Just send most of your mobile stuff south and end this silliness. Cut off his raiders and if he wants to keep sending more stuff into the bag, so much the better. If he wants to keep raising the ante, you have the forces to trump him at this point, and he's just begging to get himself trapped against the Sea of Azov. This recklessness just makes me shake my head.

The rifle corps and artillery can grind forward elsewhere.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 3:30:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

oh my...look at all this ant infantry divisions. did you fly recon missions deep into the enemy terrotiry to find out if he has any kind of fort line prepared?

if he has not a level 4 fort belt behind the front you may be in poland in winter.

congratulation for this great victorious battle which looked like a lost battle for a long time.[&o]


Thanks. Air recon shows fortified lines along the various southern rivers by Kirovograd and Krivoi Rog. They are not terribly deep from what can be seen.



timmyab -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 4:00:02 PM)

Farfarer seems to have fatally misjudged the strategic situation since the failure of the Upper Dnepr pocket.That should have been a clear warning that the time for major Axis offensives is over.It's time to go over to the strategic defensive.



governato -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 8:38:52 PM)

I cannot second guess Farfarer, but I think he is just having a Hell of a good time trying new strategies.
At this point he might just be playing it to the extreme and see what happens. His 'Kursk style' gamble did not work out, but it was good to think against the grain and if M60A3TTS had panicked and abandoned the pockets, the front might look a lot different now. Personally I am learning lots from this game, which went past the usual 30 odd turns. Kudos to both players!



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 11:29:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: governato

I cannot second guess Farfarer, but I think he is just having a Hell of a good time trying new strategies.
At this point he might just be playing it to the extreme and see what happens. His 'Kursk style' gamble did not work out, but it was good to think against the grain and if M60A3TTS had panicked and abandoned the pockets, the front might look a lot different now. Personally I am learning lots from this game, which went past the usual 30 odd turns. Kudos to both players!


Yes, his comment from a couple weeks ago:

The safe thing would be to go defensive in 1943, but that is the way every game goes, and is no fun. Happy for people to comment in your AAR "His big mistake was to attack in 1943." Yeah me and the IRL OKH :)



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 117 (8/16/2012 11:44:32 PM)

I don't recall the real life OKH doubling down after Kursk and going into full Ride of the Valkyries mode...



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