RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (Full Version)

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KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 1:03:54 PM)

T55 center/south & south (Soviet)


It seems that Saper has spread his mobile forces around whole front. It is great news.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/99B9F619001741FA9581223720C4C141.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 1:32:04 PM)

I gather that south of Boguchar you intend to fall back to the Volga.



bigbaba -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 2:44:11 PM)

some people say the russians do not need rifle corps units until 43 when they get cheaper. but after gids stopped my advance as german in 42 with some rifle corps i tend to build them too in 42 and let them:

1) hold strategic important sectors like moscow
2) counterattacking german spearheads and reopen pockets.

the biggest disadvantage about this units is their limited MP number which is even a bigger problem when you simply do nit have units with high moral.



Flaviusx -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 2:56:46 PM)

That's overstating my point, Bigbaba. I think it's okay to build a few rifle corps in 1942. But mass builds are a mistake. They're not that strong early on and it's very difficult to defend in depth without a large amount of rifle divisions. And at 20 APs a shot, they're hideously expensive.

I think people tend to underbuild tank corps, and that they are much more important on the defense than rifle corps at this stage. They also tend to use the ones they build incorrectly and keep them much too near the front rather than in reserve to counterattack.




gingerbread -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 3:13:23 PM)

Your T53 ARM pool did not look quite up to being capable of handling the July '42 (T55) Rifle Squad upgrade - how did it go?



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 4:46:27 PM)

quote:

M60A3TTS

I gather that south of Boguchar you intend to fall back to the Volga.



I plan to withdraw as long as it is necessary.


quote:

gingerbread

our T53 ARM pool did not look quite up to being capable of handling the July '42 (T55) Rifle Squad upgrade - how did it go?



Manpower and arm pools are very low, but I have to say armament is being depleted faster.



Walloc -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 5:52:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil
Manpower and arm pools are very low, but I have to say armament is being depleted faster.



Shhhh, i have it on good authority that arma doesnt matter![;)] Thats not to say manpower doesnt matter more in most games, considering the current replacement level, but 42 can be a real drag on arms even with full evac if u have to replace losses in a big way.

Rasmus



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:15:31 PM)

T56 north (German)


More and more Finns appear in far north.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/3BBBF7B157F749A1BCF1CC95B85EEE2B.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:17:27 PM)

T56 center (German)


German pressure in Moscow area continues.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/0FA0A15B2D574BE98C8A9507D051DC79.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:19:36 PM)

T56 south (German)


No action near Lipetsk.


Two mini pockets. I hope it will now develop in full scale onslaught.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/F923DE63D4B1485F9DDCC6AA2A4FB19C.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:22:09 PM)

T56 far south (German)


After many many months of inactivity Saper made his move here..

[image]local://upfiles/37480/E8D1980E05DF43DA83DC01274948F237.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:30:35 PM)

Assuming he uses the next few weeks to push up to the Don, he'll then have to decide whether to move on Stalingrad or fill the line with allies and free up forces to work on Moscow or swing north towards Penza. A move on Penza wouldn't be a great idea, but it's still an option for him. I'd recommend a fighting withdrawal and not just give up that ground outright. There's still a lot of summer to go and every lost manpower center now will make it that much more difficult to regain lost territory down the road.



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:53:46 PM)

quote:

M60A3TTS

Assuming he uses the next few weeks to push up to the Don, he'll then have to decide whether to move on Stalingrad or fill the line with allies and free up forces to work on Moscow or swing north towards Penza. A move on Penza wouldn't be a great idea, but it's still an option for him. I'd recommend a fighting withdrawal and not just give up that ground outright. There's still a lot of summer to go and every lost manpower center now will make it that much more difficult to regain lost territory down the road.



I am trying my best to fight but not loosing troops has priority, so I choose to retreat when situation gets dangerous.



Flaviusx -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:53:56 PM)

Kamil, your opponent probably figures that you are thin enough on the ground now that he doesn't need to rely on a single panzer blob and can mount multiple offensives. He may not be wrong about this. This also explains the Finns. He doing stuff everywhere and stretching you out.



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:55:02 PM)

T56 center (Soviet)


Battle continues.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/AAD6542D2B014D1EA38D08352C995C12.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:58:33 PM)

T56 south (Soviet)


Thanks to luck and forming of infantry corps I managed to reopen bigger pocket. I am not getting overly exited because there is still long way to go before being able to stan my ground in clear terrain.



[image]local://upfiles/37480/C962AAB43EFB43E2B83F21E468735515.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 6:59:51 PM)

T56 south (Soviet)


Two crucial battles leading to reopening of northern pocket.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/3E1F4CB9334F46F2AA0C200C5BC7C3C8.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:01:03 PM)

T56 far south (Soviet)


I managed to patch up defenses near Novorossiysk.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/40F9CC998087448B8628E7380088ADD4.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:02:39 PM)

quote:

Flaviusx


Kamil, your opponent probably figures that you are thin enough on the ground now that he doesn't need to rely on a single panzer blob and can mount multiple offensives. He may not be wrong about this. This also explains the Finns. He doing stuff everywhere and stretching you out.



I agree. I am trying to be as flexible as I can.



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:28:41 PM)

T57 north (German)


Fins are more and more active in far north.



[image]local://upfiles/37480/5AEDE55345614B8E892DCBA20E5D2BD6.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:31:43 PM)

T57 center (German)


Unpleasant surprise - Infantry Corps and 2 divisions are encircled.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/3E405C5643C84F568B5662F16D3B7598.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:35:58 PM)

T57 south (German)


Isolated units were destroyed (9k - inf div and tank brig) and 4 more were surrounded.


Saper keeps applying pressure. River Don was crossed near Rostov and I won't be able to push him back or contain advancing panzers.



[image]local://upfiles/37480/8A370AA92BC842C7A1D8DFE420979DD6.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 7:37:59 PM)

T57 far south (German)


I am surprised by German mobility once again. My positions are outflanked so another withdrawal will be necessary.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/D272E41307BD405BAB92953885F45E74.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 9:05:44 PM)

T57 center (Soviet)


Extremely successful counter-attacks near Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/CB49C260F1A146C0931C79F46077EFCE.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 9:08:25 PM)

T57 south (Soviet)


Pocket was reopened and withdrawal continues.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/74219A2EC0914A60AD64D5176F891EE6.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 9:11:06 PM)

T57 far south (Soviet)


More and more ground given. A bit historic.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/D88D8FE56E674E99B2E1503C19BFDE8A.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 9:28:05 PM)

Nice defense of Moscow. Meanwhile Stalingrad beckons. Will Saper be able to resist?



sillyflower -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 11:14:10 PM)

and you are using your corps to chew up his mobile forces at an impressive rate which he can't sustain - and that's without knowing what he's losing in his turn.



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 11:55:21 PM)

quote:

sillyflower

and you are using your corps to chew up his mobile forces at an impressive rate which he can't sustain - and that's without knowing what he's losing in his turn.




Since Saper abandoned concept of attacking with all panzers in one place I can counter-attack without compromising my defenses.



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/19/2012 11:57:06 PM)

T58 north (German)


I need to do something in far north otherwise it might get messy there.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/26E0231ADB044ED78058AA55ED23B8C9.jpg[/image]



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