RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (Full Version)

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KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 3:53:51 PM)

T61 center (Soviet)


Crucial attack designed to save encircled stack failed.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/1FD5F18A3DF24159ABE5FD3F5D5677BB.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 3:58:10 PM)

T61 far south - west (Soviet)


I need to counter movement of Italian mountain divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/3BC2AABFEE09422EA941D44E97EC4CC7.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 3:59:28 PM)

T61 far south - east (Soviet)


More units on the way, so I should be able to stabilize front line.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/24A1052DD3364DB294DAE4E6CC97EEF2.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:23:58 PM)

T62 far north (German)


Turn of nasty surprises.

I forgot about Finnish panzer divisions, but thanks to Saper's courtesy I remember now. :)

[image]local://upfiles/37480/B4BAAE22657545DB9FF948D35B092B3B.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:24:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I have to ask. You handled Pelton quite well but here you've struggled to hold Saper back. What's been the main difference?


Back then Kamil had a carpet of lvl 3 -5 forts and the manpower hit was not in effect yet.

This game was per 1.06.13 so Kamil would have never been muled to death. Those days are over.

There is a HUGE HUGE difference before .13 and after .13.

The logistics has 100% been chaanged forever an so has the game. Its like comparing apples to a cow pattie.

Same as Hooopers 1v1=2v1 and TDV's uber russian blizzard O pocketing 50 german divisions ( got nerfed with the HQ patch)

1941 is very close to historical now, games are desided in 1942 now.




KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:27:12 PM)

T62 center (German)


Very successful turn for Axis. I will have to extract encircled units at all cost - another 2 inf corps and 4 inf divisions on the top of what he destroyed that turn (1 inf corps and 2 inf divisions) would massively help his cause of capturing Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/39828FC3F3424E6DADCCF71AFA299E60.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:31:18 PM)

T62 far south (German)


I will be able to reopen corridor to trapped units.

I was very surprised to find out last turn that my divisions got isolated due to distance to rail-head. I guess this battle seen best performance of soldiers from Italy since Zama :)

[image]local://upfiles/37480/4430BE56509A40049E4CF694AC82B470.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:35:53 PM)

quote:

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I have to ask. You handled Pelton quite well but here you've struggled to hold Saper back. What's been the main difference?


Pelton

Back then Kamil had a carpet of lvl 3 -5 forts and the manpower hit was not in effect yet.

This game was per 1.06.13 so Kamil would have never been muled to death. Those days are over.

There is a HUGE HUGE difference before .13 and after .13.




Oh Pelton, Pelton.

You are rewriting history so it can suit You.



In THIS game there was muling, look at initial turns first ...



Fishbed -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:46:28 PM)

I see he's manning the lines with regiments (!) northwest of Moscow, along your bulge... Don't you want to spare a couple corps or strong units to give him a bloody nose there? Every fuss you'll do in the vicinity of Moscow will help your cause at saving The Kremlin...



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 7:49:12 PM)

quote:

Fishbed

I see he's manning the lines with regiments (!) northwest of Moscow, along your bulge... Don't you want to spare a couple corps or strong units to give him a bloody nose there? Every fuss you'll do in the vicinity of Moscow will help your cause at saving The Kremlin...



I do not have enough reserves for any kind of offensive (especially in unfavorable terrain), my main task is containing his panzer thrusts.



HITMAN202 -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/29/2012 10:14:06 PM)

A few questions..

1) Has Sapper been "grinding you down" like Pelton mentioned in other AAR's ?? What I think he means are straight up attacks that don't necessarily attempt to form pockets.

2) What has been the German/Soviet loss ratio ?? Seems other AAR's point to a 1/3 ratio or better achieves a definite German advantage.

3) If Sapper had conducted a more sensible blizzard defense (retreat more) would the additional troops and better morale now make a major (significant) difference ???



hfarrish -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/30/2012 4:00:18 AM)


This is now up there with the M60 / Farfarer AAR as one of the most interesting and instructive on the board...keep up the good work!



Peltonx -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (8/31/2012 12:34:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I have to ask. You handled Pelton quite well but here you've struggled to hold Saper back. What's been the main difference?


Pelton

Back then Kamil had a carpet of lvl 3 -5 forts and the manpower hit was not in effect yet.

This game was pre 1.06.13 so Kamil would have never been muled to death. Those days are over.

There is a HUGE HUGE difference before .13 and after .13.





In THIS game there was muling, look at initial turns first ...



Thats what I said.

Really not sure what your talking about.

You drinking when you read my post?

I will let you reboot and try again.




KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 12:56:18 PM)

quote:

HITMAN202

A few questions..

1) Has Sapper been "grinding you down" like Pelton mentioned in other AAR's ?? What I think he means are straight up attacks that don't necessarily attempt to form pockets.

2) What has been the German/Soviet loss ratio ?? Seems other AAR's point to a 1/3 ratio or better achieves a definite German advantage.

3) If Sapper had conducted a more sensible blizzard defense (retreat more) would the additional troops and better morale now make a major (significant) difference ???



1 - No he hasn't, and I think that was mistake, between turns 7-14 I was for the taking. He focuses on pockets and won't omit even smallest prey.

2 - 3:1, plus over 250 destroyed divisions

3 - yes, I would have been on brink of major defeat



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:03:43 PM)

T62 far north (Soviet)


Thanks to arrival of reinforcements and luck I managed to break encirclement.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/7CEEF13A9F7F42C5982AA8B6B06B8ACE.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:06:06 PM)

T62 centrer (Soviet)


Moscow area was massively reinforced thus successful counter-attacks were possible. I think situation here is under control.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/D47144CD3F8449EAAFE5D9F2333C5AC9.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:08:31 PM)

T62 south (Soviet)


Western approaches to Stalingrad are safe.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/45F295550D3D468CA0BB3A84B0EA0FB1.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:09:32 PM)

T62 far south-west (Soviet)


Careful withdrawal.



[image]local://upfiles/37480/50131320E9974229A19BD0FB005AEDA0.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:12:17 PM)

T62 far south-east (Soviet)


I think I managed to contain Saper's panzers.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/9B81A531B8624FD5AD1603704EDB1C6C.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:30:32 PM)

T63 far north (German)



Pocket was resealed, and ring of encirclement is stronger now.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/2034782A4A28412E81123E0C65360536.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:33:53 PM)

T63 centre (German)


More and more panzers are committed here, but crisis is over.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/7D486FF5D6264F88BA9D52677D1032E4.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:35:19 PM)

T63 south (German)


I am a bit concerned by few mobile units spotted by reckon planes.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/53F7370A9BF4454DB6824CA6CFCD81A6.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 1:36:27 PM)

T63 far south (German)


Hmm, I think more troops will have to be sent here.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/67EE85288BB1414092E6B0791B899772.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 2:40:02 PM)

T63 far north (Soviet)


Relief forces were defeated. 5 infantry division and 1 tank brigade will be lost.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/404200552918402AA28E020981046E94.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 2:42:36 PM)

T63 center + north (Soviet)


Overall good turn here.

Middle part of the German front is idle so I am able to stretch my forces there and sufficiently reinforced Moscow area.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/1DFE27E635E14144A519E7E9DCC85A76.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 2:44:06 PM)

T63 far south-west (Soviet)


Not many troops are committed by both sides so little is happening here.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/D9338DC4D1904BDEBCBF9666F221DBC9.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 2:46:55 PM)

T63 far south (Soviet)


Great trek to the south.


Bad luck (Tank corps attacks) and limited movement of infantry divisions made my position in far south very precarious.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/3BE256B245E1469BB0758BADE5C48269.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 3:16:54 PM)

T64 far north (German)


Fins accomplished their objective and started withdrawal.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/BFE3309F1C4546AC9EC00833B7827B52.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 3:19:40 PM)

T64 center (German)


I guess it will be all quiet on the Moscow front from now on.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/01CF08B5F6C242FCA90B22C6458E3672.jpg[/image]



KamilS -> RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) (9/5/2012 3:20:49 PM)

T64 far south-west (German)


Nothing new.

[image]local://upfiles/37480/600F35D85CFC4F5C8AC3F31FB83C65CA.jpg[/image]



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