RE: Community Modding Discussion (Full Version)

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Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 6:06:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I'm fine with using an adjusted version of the WitE map, but as stated: the scale is different, which is something to keep in mind.


Where should Rostov be, by the way? This is our chance to move a whole city!



ComradeP -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 6:12:12 PM)

Further to the west than it is in WitE. The distance between the Dnepr bend south of Zaporozhye and Rostov is a bit less than 200 miles I believe, which means Rostov is 4 or 5 hexes too far east of the Dnepr.

Also, in case you missed the edit to my last post:
quote:

I don't know whether we can increase the value when stacking penalties start from 100 to 150, for example, to compensate for the increased area that each hex represents.


We could use the distance between the western map edge and Rostov/any city to measure where it should be, roughly, but as you also said: there'll always be some problems.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 7:09:58 PM)

Rostov has been moved to the west... Taganrog Bay did look overly long before this change.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/23810EE6162549699E91CB3F5B6FBC85.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 7:12:04 PM)

Stack points for all SFTs can be edited. Some are currently set at 1 and others at 2. Entering 0.5 defaults to 0.

I don't know what a zero setting will do (hopefully it won't crash the game) but staff, trucks etc. could all be set at zero.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/D88DC32E81E847F980A2A3B7E3D97EBD.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 7:58:53 PM)

OK, the Crimea is done on the new scale and template... Let me know what you think.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/007F14A367E1470AAD2C8F1770F0FA6F.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:00:11 PM)

I think I will get rid of the city graphics completely and just stick with traditional 'dots'.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:11:15 PM)

Cleaner looking without the city graphic IMHO

[image]local://upfiles/27287/F09A3F3015014B2AABD1FF8ADD95A214.jpg[/image]



sullafelix -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:43:40 PM)

Very nic and incredibly fast.



Keunert -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:51:43 PM)

good move with the city, extreme clean map now



Keunert -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:52:48 PM)

the river blue could be a little closer to the sea blue?



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:54:41 PM)

I'll look at the rivers. Probably needs brighter blue for the green map and closer to sea color for the tan map...



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 8:56:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

Very nic and incredibly fast.


Thanks, but have you seen the size of the whole map that needs to be drawn? I had planned on editing the Case Blue map, just adding 20-30 hexes on the left, but now I need to create a whole southern USSR/Poland map to get what I want :(

It's going to take at least a week of evening work...



goranw -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 10:13:00 PM)

Hi!
Interesting to see all this map modding!
Especially the comparision/interaction with the WitE map.
Here is a hasty incomplete overlay with rails and roads and with many errors .
( Totally unplayable [:)])
Goran

[image]local://upfiles/4588/3082D7B1EA554262A072F2E3A0D59B2D.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/30/2012 6:40:41 AM)

Hi.

Could you make another overlay image like that if I send you the work-in-progress file? It would be great to have as many places on the map as possible.

Do you have one without the Polish spellings? If not, I can change some 'w' to 'v' and someone who really cares can edit the place names later ;)



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/30/2012 7:20:09 AM)

I did the Odessa region (WitE place names only, so far) before work. Will do another chunk tonight, probably Romania and a bit more over on the east.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/9E1F242FFED343308006D6D73D68D4B0.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 2:39:42 PM)

Modders:

Link deleted - see later post. JSGME ready - look for a WitE Mods folder inside your DCCB scenarios folder after activating the mod.

NOTE: the mod requires some blank town and city icons, so you need to deactivate it before you go back to playing any non-WitE scenarios. I am going to look at Vic's dczip guide before we publish this to see exactly how that process works.

1. WitE Map image was modded by Krupp_88 to better fit the DCCB hex pattern.
2. DCCD map was modded by me with rail lines, rivers, town and all terrain overlaid and then set to transparent. Roads and bridges are still visible, but need some graphics modding.
3. Units have been moved slightly to keep them behind river lines as per stock and to put HQs and air units on WitE town hexes.

WHAT'S MISSING for a volunteer to now do:

1. Since towns have been removed, new VPs values are needed for all towns/cities now on the map (there is one on top of every WitE town/city and D-ville is now 3 hexes in size.
2. The new VP total needs to be used in Settings to compute the new victory levels.
3. I also realize that the old town locations still have VPs in place - the removal process is messy. If you can click across the hex grid to spot these and set the VPs to zero, that would be great.
4. I want to replace the WitE map with a stock no-names map. Krupp - do you mind repeating your edit but using a vanilla WitE map this time? Map names are too large, so next time we'll use the DCCB map labels.
5. Play test.

Who will take 1-3?

[image]local://upfiles/27287/62098D761E844FC49B59A827A0122B0E.jpg[/image]



goranw -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 5:02:28 PM)

Hi!
This is perhaps a bit off-topic but in connection with the Chrimea map above.
I would like to know which map is the base for the game map
and perhaps the most important thing, the projection.
Down is a comparision with a generell ww2 map
in the of all parts (Axis and Allies) used International world map in scale 1-1 Milj.
As you see another projection is used in the game.
This doesnt mean that its not as good but to know longitude and latitude would help.
Ex Yalta,Freydorf and Seytler seem to be a bit displaced?
Goran



[image]local://upfiles/4588/7066C7FD212248E78591ABAD319702A5.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 5:35:39 PM)

I used the WitE maps as a template and drew on top of them. I moved Rostov already and I can move Yalta, but my plan is to create a second 'WitE Mod' version of each scenario with the WitE map images. So, once I start making the base map more accurate, it creates a problem when I want to add the WitE map.

I am going for attractiveness over accuracy this time around, unless the errors are really huge and will change the course of the game in a big way. To be honest, I think that for 95% of players, my hex map is going to look pretty close to the real overlay you have there...

Also, note that in the DCCB map editor, I can't draw the actual coastline. I set a hex as 'land' or 'sea' and the program draws the coast. If you ever edited with TOAW you'll know what I mean.

There is one other option if you can point me to a free online set of historical WW2 maps. That is to use the maps as the game images and draw transparent terrain on top of them. This would give a totally authentic WW2 effect.



goranw -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 6:21:59 PM)

Hi!
I completly agree with you.
My way to see the map thing is in another direction. Not coupled to the WitE map.
That direction of yours is very interesting and your job is great!
Goran



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 7:25:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: goranw

Hi!
I completly agree with you.
My way to see the map thing is in another direction. Not coupled to the WitE map.
That direction of yours is very interesting and your job is great!
Goran


Will you be building some historical maps? The game allows you to import a bitmap/JPEG and then draw over it in transparent mode.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 9:33:05 PM)

Completed the area Lublin-Rovno-Pinsk this evening.

Added a new Land type: Forest_Marsh. Don't even think about moving troops through there!

[image]local://upfiles/27287/FD3A1502B82148EE95F63B47804B3DD9.jpg[/image]



Keunert -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 10:04:06 PM)

what will be the app. size of the map?
are there any limits to the map size?
does it have longer loading times?



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/30/2012 10:12:25 PM)

This one is going to be about 170 wide by 120 deep, so almost the same size as Case Blue - we added hexes in the west and took away hexes in the east.

Maximum map size is 200 x 200.

Loading time seems to be dependent more on the graphics used rather than map size. A bigger mix of more complex and colorful graphics will slow down loading. My simple board game graphics should speed it up.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/31/2012 7:50:57 AM)

Created new Location Type 'Hill Town' so that towns don't drop back to 'Plains' level when built in hilly terrain.

I gave it higher move costs than a normal town but lower than a standard hills hex.

Anyone know how I can get the rail graphic to stay hidden by the town icon?

[image]local://upfiles/27287/E5F33092055F4F6B823F216B3309901B.jpg[/image]



goranw -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (7/31/2012 9:09:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: goranw

Hi!
I completly agree with you.
My way to see the map thing is in another direction. Not coupled to the WitE map.
That direction of yours is very interesting and your job is great!
Goran


Will you be building some historical maps? The game allows you to import a bitmap/JPEG and then draw over it in transparent mode.

Hi!
I would like to try that. Havnt succeded in finding out how to do what you describe as a possibility.
Goran



Vic -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/31/2012 9:42:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Anyone know how I can get the rail graphic to stay hidden by the town icon?

[image]local://upfiles/27287/E5F33092055F4F6B823F216B3309901B.jpg[/image]


yes you have to add the town icon for the sprite in the 2nd slot (there are 3 in a row each with a blue button below) and turn PlotLast = true.



Iņaki Harrizabalagatar -> a radical proposal for OOB & TOE (7/31/2012 12:15:29 PM)

Hi all
Now that no work has started yet on the OOB & TOE of the game units I would like to put forward a radical idea to your consideration.

In the game there are different front line units, those that matter in a battleline, with different sizes. For instance, soviet rifle div subunits are smaller than german ones, as it should be. However a sivet rifle div has the same number of subunits that the german inf div, so that with considerable less manpower you can cover the same front line, which is not historical at all of course. From the game mechanics perspective it means that the soviet player have a considerable larger ammount of ZOCs for the same manpower than the German player, that translates into the Soviet player being able to put in place double or tripple battleines, or to outflank German units that risk being cut off. This is a very common problem with many games using ZOC rules.
I donīt know the game mechanics well and maybe that has been taken into account somehow already, but if not my radical proposal is this.
Review all the subunits in the game and make them similar in size, so that for instrance, instead of having 3 subunits, the soviet rifle div would have just 2 subunits. I know this sounds radical but could go a long way in making the game more playable on historical lines.
I would really like to read your opinion on the matter.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/31/2012 12:43:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Anyone know how I can get the rail graphic to stay hidden by the town icon?

[image]local://upfiles/27287/E5F33092055F4F6B823F216B3309901B.jpg[/image]


yes you have to add the town icon for the sprite in the 2nd slot (there are 3 in a row each with a blue button below) and turn PlotLast = true.



Perfect! thanks :)

[image]local://upfiles/27287/15414EDB1ADF41458CFC904A67B28F00.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE (7/31/2012 12:46:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iņaki Harrizabalagatar

Hi all
Now that no work has started yet on the OOB & TOE of the game units I would like to put forward a radical idea to your consideration.

In the game there are different front line units, those that matter in a battleline, with different sizes. For instance, soviet rifle div subunits are smaller than german ones, as it should be. However a sivet rifle div has the same number of subunits that the german inf div, so that with considerable less manpower you can cover the same front line, which is not historical at all of course. From the game mechanics perspective it means that the soviet player have a considerable larger ammount of ZOCs for the same manpower than the German player, that translates into the Soviet player being able to put in place double or tripple battleines, or to outflank German units that risk being cut off. This is a very common problem with many games using ZOC rules.
I donīt know the game mechanics well and maybe that has been taken into account somehow already, but if not my radical proposal is this.
Review all the subunits in the game and make them similar in size, so that for instrance, instead of having 3 subunits, the soviet rifle div would have just 2 subunits. I know this sounds radical but could go a long way in making the game more playable on historical lines.
I would really like to read your opinion on the matter.



Sounds like a good idea to me. We could test it on a small map with just 2-3 divisions on each side and an HQ...



ComradeP -> RE: a radical proposal for OOB & TOE (7/31/2012 2:20:40 PM)

That would solve only a small part of the problem, the number of units that have a ZOC, and not what I would view as the main problem: unit size and ZOC being unrelated. It would be inconsistent to give the Soviets just two units per division, but still allowing some depleted unit with, say, 5 KV-1's a full ZOC.

We can't really get into the code, to create a part that determines when something has a ZOC, as far as I know.

Fewer on-map units per Soviet division would also further increase the problem of high losses when not entrenched, as when such a reinforced Rifle brigade/regiment would panic, it would still lose a large chunk of its manpower. The Soviets need 3 units to have some sort of resilience against imploding lines when their units are not (properly) entrenched. Especially if we tweak the effectiveness of air power and artillery.



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