RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (Full Version)

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Redmarkus5 -> RE: Kharkov for WitE ready for final work and testing (8/19/2012 12:19:56 PM)

The unit photos are stored in graphics/DC2/Eskubi

The best way to ensure that the size is correct is to:
1. Open an existing photo using a free program like paint.net (which is the one I use). Free to download and use, all open source.
2. Open the new image you plan to use, also in Paint.net.
3. Select the area of the new image you actually want to use buy pressing 'S' and then dragging the mouse.
4. Copy the selected area Ctrl+C or 'Copy' from the menu.
5. Paste the copied image on top of the existing one that you opened earlier.
6. When Pain.net asks if you want to resize of keep the existing size, choose 'Keep existing...'
7. Hold SHIFT and drag the corners of the pasted selection until it fits reasonably closely to the original. Don't worry if a portion remains outside the area of the original - when you save this will automatically be cropped off.
8. 'Save as' if you are creating a new SFT or just 'Save' with the original name is you are replacing the graphics on the existing SFT image.

Now go to your SFT and point it at the edited image, if it's not already pointing there.

Restart the game to see the edited or new image on the units on-map.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 4:09:40 AM)

OK. I am now more or less finished adding Axis sftypes and am in the process of adding Units and Historical Units ... and I have a problem ... two, actually, which may be related.

1) <edit> figured most of this <edit>

2) I have, likewise, modded the Slovak Fast Division ... from 2 Mechanised Regiments to a single Motorised Regiment, an Armoured Regiment and an Artillery Regiment. I now have the problem, and it seems to switch between one and the other, randomly, that either all three Regiments show up with the Slovak Fast Division NATO symbol, but all with a #1 at the side (i.e. Regiment #1 for all of them) or they show white silhouettes rather than NATO symbols for the Artillery and Armoured Regiments.

I cannot figure out how to get Regiment I, Regiment II, Regiment III.

What am I missing?

And here I thought I was doing nicely (the Jager, Mountain, and Infantry Divisions worked well because the number of Regiments remained the same, I guess).

[:(] HELP!! [X(]

Phil



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 4:45:17 AM)

OK, I've figured out how to do the Nato Symbols for #1 of my previous post (by accident, of course [8|]) ... but now I have this other problem, the Slovak Fast Division shows as its Nato counter (Mech Infantry) with the little Slovak symbol below and to the right ... but, above, I'd like to put "Slovak" ... as it is currently blank ... how to do?

And I'm still stumped on how to show them as Regiments I, II, and III rather than all as I.

Additionally, how can you show the three different Regiments as the three different Nato symbols, Motorised, Armour, Artillery, rather than all as Mech Infantry?

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 8:44:29 AM)

Troy Ritter will be better able to answer as I have only dabbled with this - suggest you PM him.

Here's what I know:

1. There are separate NATO graphic files for the different Regt numbers, so these are clearly used in conjunction with the main NATO image. They must be specified as a target somewhere, so look up the graphic numbers and see if you can spot them anywhere in the editor associated with an un-modded unit that's working.

2. There is a 'Sh' button at the top right area of the Hist window. Find the Division in your historical units list and then click 'Sh' to define the short name you want to see on the unit.

3. There are several other naming and counter buttons towards the botton of the screen. Click on a Div sub-unit (pre-def) in the Hist window and play around with those. Remember that MODEL only affects the template...

As I say, Troy knows a heck of lot more that I do about this area.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 8:58:54 AM)

Yep. Tried all that. None of it works/helps as far as I can tell.

And I'm still getting changed Regiments appearing with silhouttes rather than NATO symbols ... where they aren't just big orange oblongs about 3x the width of a regular counter. And there appears to be no way of changing this.

I'll try contacting Troy [&:]

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 9:07:04 AM)

Can you post a screenshot? I have added SFTs and unit types (even created some Civil War units) and I didn't have any orange blobs issues, even though my efforts weren't 100% successful.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 10:56:42 AM)

Screenshot (trimmed) attached.

I have PM'ed Troy, and am awaiting a response!

Phil

[image]local://upfiles/13105/360A5EC74E6B418BA61BFAB41274307E.jpg[/image]



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 1:25:00 PM)

OK, I've managed (by accident, again [8|]) to work out how to get around the orange oblongs (involves a -1 input somewhere ... nowhere actually documented, of course [8|]) ...

Even worked out how to get "Fast" above the Nato Symbol.

But now I still can't get units to display the correct Regiment numbers if I've included new regiment types ... I can get all with no Regiment # (another -1 input), or all as Regiment I ... but even using the numerical codes that work in unchanged units (13, 14, 15 etc.) makes no difference whatsoever to the Regimental Number displays ... they all show as Regiment I.

Likewise, I still cannot get different subunits to show anything but the main unit Nato symbol ... all Slovak Fast Division units are currently Motorised Infantry ... I can't get the Tank unit to show as Tanks nor the Artillery to show as Artillery.

Any ideas? I'm stumped (unless I accidentally stumble onto something ... but that takes hours and I've got about five other things that are becoming more urgent ...

[:(]

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 2:49:33 PM)

I know what it is! The number circled in red here refers to the additional graphic file (inside the NATO graphics folder) that has the appropriate Regt number bar. So, in this example, 13 points to the 1 bar graphic, 14 to 2 bars, 15 to 3 bars and 11 to the artillery 'dot'.

So, if you want a 4th Regt you need to add a new graphic with 4 bars and give it a number (e.g. 183) then point your 4th Regt at that graphic when you add it to the OOB.

You can't edit those settings directly for existing Regts. You need to first delete the sub-unit in the screen shown - remove it from the MODEL division (which I am foolishly not showing but I am rushed at the moment) NOT FROM THE ON MAP UNIT. The add the sub-unit again, making sure that you noted down the parameters you need to re-inserted sub unit to have, including the Regt graphic assignment value.

Play around with that and it should do the trick.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/84C930432D9D42F5AA13AA3705B3EFE1.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 2:50:29 PM)

By the way, I did have those orange/red bars once very early on, but I can't recall why they showed up or how I got rid of them!



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 3:45:44 PM)

Thanks! That worked! For Slovak Fast and Jaeger as well. Now for the rest!

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 3:58:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Thanks! That worked! And I would probably never have found it, even by accident.

Now I have Security Divisions with Regiments I and II and will soon be working on the Jaeger Divisions and Slovak Fast Division, then onto other German/Axis Divisions now I know what to do!

Now, if only I could figure out how to make the Regiments show their Nato symbol (Armour, Artillery etc.) instead of the Divisional one [&:]

Thanks!

Phil


Good.

OK, to get the Regiments showing Regt symbols instead of Div symbols, your best bet is to install the Ritterkrieg Mod and go from there.

Setting the Divisional assets to use Regt counters was achieved by editing the Div NATO counters and replacing the XX with lll. However, it could also have been done by clicking the 'Nat' button (next to 'Sh') and pointing the MODEL at another Nato graphic.

How he got the different sub-units to each use different Regt icons I don't know. I asked him but he didn't reply, so it remains a secret :)



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 4:27:32 PM)

Yes, I will fool around with pointing to different symbols after deleting the originals from the Model Unit, which did the trick, after a bit of fiddling, for the Security, Jaeger and Slovak Fast Divisions ... but not tonight [>:]

Phil



Ritterkrieg_slith -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 5:40:47 PM)

Out of the loop here but here is my answer to your email phil...

Phil, your in luck!

The Divisional structure of the game includes a number assigned to the different types of Regimental or parts and this will invoke changes or overlays when displayed on the map.

This is set in the 'His' tab by using the 'Set Subpart' tab.

Basically this is what I know so far:

11 will show the Artillery symbol

13, 14, 15 will invoke the I II and III when displayed on map.

16 will show the Pz

-1 will show nothing.

Troy



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 6:28:21 PM)

Troy - did you Mod 11 in order to turn it into the combined Inf/Arty symbol in your mod? I can't see my files right now.

If you did, how do you get the Artillery sub-unit to show that NATO graphic and not the same graphic as the rest of the Division?



Ritterkrieg_slith -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 7:27:15 PM)

Its rather simple; the formation is assigned an overall NATO using Hist. tab.

The 11 and 16 are overlays to this NATO invoked with the subpart number assignment.

Troy



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 7:46:27 PM)

Ah, right - got it, thanks.

It doesn't look simple to me...



Ritterkrieg_slith -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 7:59:58 PM)

So looking at the modding of panzer div in the game has brought up an issue with the German formations. There were many panzer div that started Case Blue with a single Pz bn and others that had 2 or three so the single Ger. Panzer Bat. MODEL wont cut it for all.

As well, most of the PD had 12 Panzer IVf2 (early G) given to them regardless of the amount of BN in the Regiment.

I created a Ger. Panzer Bat. b to have the F2 instead of the E and this sort of works but it seems that to get any historical credibility we are going to have to go through the 20 or so panzer divisions and edit them individually. Case in point the 22 panzer division vanilla is pure fiction...it should be mostly Pz38(t)s. This is a fair bit of work but nothing compared to modding the OOB of the whole game!

One other issue is that if you want to edit the MODELS and then 'set all' to models then you will lose all your mico-editing so we need to have the models set right before this starts.

I think the OOB editing is best done as a community mod to allow everyone to pitch in and make something beautiful. I wouldnt mind doing some but not all!

Which brings up another issue of upgrades. Is this the '2nd reinforcement type' in the SFT tab???

VICTOR where are you?!? [:(]

Troy

[image]local://upfiles/32599/A24F1F27B7034BB2B973F3C6F04F7BFF.jpg[/image]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/20/2012 8:59:26 PM)

I agree.

I think that Vic has been on holiday - IIRC he's back this week.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 1:43:34 AM)

According to the individual Divisional TO&Es (as of 28 July, 42) @ Nafziger, all the Panzer Divisions in DCCB except the 19th Panzer* had 3 Battalion Regiments ... and the 19th Panzer had an overstrength Battalion (4 x Light Tank Companies and 1 Medium Tank Company instead of 2 and 1**).

* The TO&E for the 23rd Panzer and 24th Panzer show the 201st Panzer Regiment, of 3 Battalions, for both ... since all other units seem to have different Battalion/Regimental Numbers, I presume this is one of his infrequent errors.

** Which would, presumably, have been temporary and unusual. How to mod it, though, as a special case that (may) later be corrected (or not). I would suspect that this can be done by having the 19th Panzer not point to a Historical Model ... or simply setting its start value differently, and let it attempt to build up to "normal" strength ... I think this can be done by doing it as the last unit being modded after doing the "Set ALL to their MODEL" button in Hist for any other changes (or does this button only apply to the currently selected unit type? ... you wouldn't think so from the label!)

So, maybe, not as big a problem as it might seem.

There is also the HisVar section (bottom left corner of the HIS screen), which *seems* to allow you to vary the TO&E of a unit by adding "attached" units to it. How this works, exactly, is, of course, unclear and not even hinted at in the manual. It may ... or may not ... be helpful at all.

Phil



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 1:53:16 AM)

Thanks, that works! Didn't think it did, at first, till I followed redmarkus's sepatrate advice that you have to first delete all the changed units in the MODEL and then reload them with the new number.

Now the Slovak Fast Division has a Motorised Regiment, Panzer Regiment, and Artillery Regiment (with the nonstandard Artillery symbol, anyway [&:])

Now, my worry is ... all this work I am doing (or starting to do) ... if you are modding TO&E's and OOBs as well, and adding new sftypes, how to co-ordinate so we don't end up with reinventing the wheel ... or adding a fifth wheel [;)]. I think I may limit my work for the moment to see what you get up to!

Phil



Ritterkrieg_slith -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 4:11:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

According to the individual Divisional TO&Es (as of 28 July, 42) @ Nafziger, all the Panzer Divisions in DCCB except the 19th Panzer* had 3 Battalion Regiments ... and the 19th Panzer had an overstrength Battalion (4 x Light Tank Companies and 1 Medium Tank Company instead of 2 and 1**).

* The TO&E for the 23rd Panzer and 24th Panzer show the 201st Panzer Regiment, of 3 Battalions, for both ... since all other units seem to have different Battalion/Regimental Numbers, I presume this is one of his infrequent errors.

** Which would, presumably, have been temporary and unusual. How to mod it, though, as a special case that (may) later be corrected (or not). I would suspect that this can be done by having the 19th Panzer not point to a Historical Model ... or simply setting its start value differently, and let it attempt to build up to "normal" strength ... I think this can be done by doing it as the last unit being modded after doing the "Set ALL to their MODEL" button in Hist for any other changes (or does this button only apply to the currently selected unit type? ... you wouldn't think so from the label!)

So, maybe, not as big a problem as it might seem.

There is also the HisVar section (bottom left corner of the HIS screen), which *seems* to allow you to vary the TO&E of a unit by adding "attached" units to it. How this works, exactly, is, of course, unclear and not even hinted at in the manual. It may ... or may not ... be helpful at all.

Phil


Hey Phil.

According to Jentz, Panzertruppen I, there seems to be great sways in the Panzer Division composition July 42.

1st Pz Dv 1 x Bn and about 50 tanks;
2nd Pz Dv 1 x Bn and about 80 tanks;
3rd Pz Dv 3 x Bn and over 160 tanks;
4th Pz Dv 1 x Bn and 47 tanks;
5th Pz Dv 2 x Bn and almost 100 tanks and on it goes...

The Nafziger site - is a great reference but lots of it is based on official TO&E - not actual tank strength.

Im sure we can come up with agreeable numbers to set the MODELS at and let the random readiness built into the game take care of the plus or minus factor.

If you are working on OOB and new units, we really should work together; I have been doing the same. Really dont want to fall into what you have described, where we are all working in the same areas and getting bogged down in the immensity of the edits. If you want to do OOB and I can do graphics we will be so much further ahead.

Troy



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 4:44:40 AM)

Yes, when I did my work on TO&E's I noted that it was only the theoretical situation. I'd prefer, personally, to have the MODELS based on the theoretical TO&E and actual UNITS based on a randomisation.

I'd like to know how the random at start strength variations is worked, and whether it can be modded or not.

As I have mentioned in other threads, relating to Romanian and other Axis allied divisions, the TO&E strengths were the way the Germans (largely) viewed them prior to Stalingrad ... even though they were way way under strength. My preference, for example, is to mod the Romanians as 3 x Infantry Regiment, 1 x Artillery Regiment Division, just like the Germans, even if, in reality, they were way way under strength.

I'd really like to see if you can mod the random strength variations at start as different between the different nationalities (and, perhaps, between different types of units ... mechanised and motorised units more savaged than, say, Infantry, for example), for a start ... I'd really savagely downcheck Romanian strength, but keep their theoretical TO&E to represent the way the Germans had them deployed.

And it would be really nice if you could hand mod units for which you have specific information at the individual unit level and not have that changed by the MODEL values. What is really needed is a "Change this specific unit to Historical MODEL value" button that only changes the one unit if you want to do that.

It would also be nice if you could directly combine units that have been decimated, as was historically done, by simply having them in the same hex and forming a Kampfgruppe, rather than by the clumsy alternative of disbanding one and then setting Replacement to PRIORITY for the other and having the elements sent back to OKH to be sent forward again to the unit in the same hex where the disbanded unit had been! That would reflect historical practice.

As for co-operating on TO&Es and OOBs, I have posted OOB and, for the Germans and Axis Allies, TO&E data in the main part of the forum and you can easily see where out sources disagree and point them out*! Which would be greatly appreciated!

* I have mainly used Nafziger and Niehorster, though I do have the reprint of the Handbook of German Military Forces (1945), which more reflects the situation of 1943/44 as a backup, though. A reasonable set of sources, but no way comprehensive! If you have better ones (and it seems you do have better data for the situation in actuality), I'd appreciate the input.

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 9:15:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

According to the individual Divisional TO&Es (as of 28 July, 42) @ Nafziger, all the Panzer Divisions in DCCB except the 19th Panzer* had 3 Battalion Regiments ... and the 19th Panzer had an overstrength Battalion (4 x Light Tank Companies and 1 Medium Tank Company instead of 2 and 1**).

* The TO&E for the 23rd Panzer and 24th Panzer show the 201st Panzer Regiment, of 3 Battalions, for both ... since all other units seem to have different Battalion/Regimental Numbers, I presume this is one of his infrequent errors.

** Which would, presumably, have been temporary and unusual. How to mod it, though, as a special case that (may) later be corrected (or not). I would suspect that this can be done by having the 19th Panzer not point to a Historical Model ... or simply setting its start value differently, and let it attempt to build up to "normal" strength ... I think this can be done by doing it as the last unit being modded after doing the "Set ALL to their MODEL" button in Hist for any other changes (or does this button only apply to the currently selected unit type? ... you wouldn't think so from the label!)

So, maybe, not as big a problem as it might seem.

There is also the HisVar section (bottom left corner of the HIS screen), which *seems* to allow you to vary the TO&E of a unit by adding "attached" units to it. How this works, exactly, is, of course, unclear and not even hinted at in the manual. It may ... or may not ... be helpful at all.

Phil


Or just create a new Hist MODEL called 19th Pz Div and give it the extra tanks?...



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 9:19:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

I'd like to know how the random at start strength variations is worked, and whether it can be modded or not.

Phil


This is handled by Events 29, 30 and 31, each of which executes on a different start date to cover Kharkov, Case Blue and Uranus.

The Soviets and Axis are both randomized and different unit types are treated differently, or can be. The events can also be turned off if you want all units to start with the assigned TOE, but then they won't reinforce above that starting level.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 9:27:59 AM)

I guess you know this already, but just in case...

You can create a non-MODEL historical unit and give it whatever sub-units you want. Anything in the Hist units list that does not say 'MODEL' in the name is such a historical unit.

On the map, press 'HOME' to add a default unit based on the MODEL, or 'PgUp' to put one of the custom built historical units, such as 19th Pz Div. This allows you to tweak the starting OOB of any division to match history.

Because the tweaked unit is still based on one of the default MODELS, it will adjust to its full TOE as reinforcements permit, so I guess there's a risk that it will return units to the pool if it starts over the TOE. The key is probably to ensure that the MODEL TOE's reflect the largest divisional size recorded for the type...

Just brain dumping here.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 10:27:30 AM)

I'll have a look at those events! Sounds like they can do what I would like!

Phil



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 10:35:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

I guess you know this already, but just in case...

You can create a non-MODEL historical unit and give it whatever sub-units you want. Anything in the Hist units list that does not say 'MODEL' in the name is such a historical unit.

On the map, press 'HOME' to add a default unit based on the MODEL, or 'PgUp' to put one of the custom built historical units, such as 19th Pz Div. This allows you to tweak the starting OOB of any division to match history.

Because the tweaked unit is still based on one of the default MODELS, it will adjust to its full TOE as reinforcements permit, so I guess there's a risk that it will return units to the pool if it starts over the TOE. The key is probably to ensure that the MODEL TOE's reflect the largest divisional size recorded for the type...

Just brain dumping here.


Yes, I'd figured that out ... you just have to be careful to do all this after you have updated ALL the MODELS and used those MODELS to force update ALL the units you wish to have at "standard" (i.e "MODEL") TO&E ...

... but ...

... does the at start historical randomisation of unit strengths randomise even these hand modded units? If it does, it would sort of defeat the whole purpose of hand modding them!

For *overstrength" units, I am guessing that the HisVar section of the HIST screen allows you to add additional units ... to specific "Historical" ones, I guess?

Phil



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 12:05:59 PM)

Yes, it randomises all on-map units at the start of Turn 1. But there is a work-around:

1. Create your OOB, put the units on the map and complete all scenario creation steps.
2. Go into the Events editor and select event 30 (or 29/31) and click the execute now button. All units are now randomized.
3. Now edit the event so that it no longer runs at startup.
4. Finally, edit those particular units you are interested in. They will stay pretty much as edited (although we have noted some very slight randomization still occurring).

The downside is that players will have a fixed set of randomized units with no changes between games.

No doubt it is also possible to exclude given units or unit types from the Event, but that calls for a good degree of skill.



aspqrz02 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (8/21/2012 2:49:25 PM)

OK. Sounds like that should work ... I certainly have no idea at all what all the ... gobbledygook ... in the various Events actually means ...

... I'm a researcher, not a programmer [;)]

Still, maybe Vic will have some suggestions when he's back from hols.

Phil



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