How good is this game ? (Full Version)

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kirk23 -> How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 1:04:51 PM)

Hi I have been looking at this game for a while,I have been on the fence wondering wether or not to buy,I'm 85% sure I will delve in soon,I have over 20 Matrix titles in my collection,and it looks like this will be my next purchase,I really like the look of this game,what do you guys think about this game?



elmo3 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 2:49:11 PM)

Ask 5 wargamers if they like a game and you'll probably get 6 opinions! What type of games do you like? Lots of detail, lots of units, with a mix of short scenarios and very long campaigns? Or easy to learn and quick to play, more in a "beer and pretzels" style? WitE is much closer to the the former. Some people here love it and some hate it. My suggestion is to read some of the AAR's to get a feel for how the game plays and decide for yourself.



Captain -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 3:34:34 PM)

If you like WITPAE, you will probably like WITE, you can dig as deep into your forces as you wish, down to squad level. At the same time, unlike WITPAE, you can play purely at the divisional level and let the AI handle a lot of the stuff.

I have both WITP/WITPAE, but never went more than a few days into the campaign because of the micro-management required. WITE requires a lot sess micro-management. I started a new grand campaign a few weeks back and am already on turn 9, mid-august 41.

If you read various threads, you will see the same various problem areas keep coming up, no game is perfect.

But on the whole, no other game out there gives you a better feel for the Eastern Front and I have been playing wargames for 40 years, going back to the old AH and SPI board games.



kirk23 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 3:48:47 PM)

Thanks for the feedback folks,I have taken your advise,and following a few AAR's as I said earlier I really like the look of this game so I think I will be buying very shortly cheers![:)]



Mac Linehan -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 4:52:31 PM)

Captain -

Concise response - and I appreciate your evaluation. Am a hard core WitP AE player, but ready to give WitE a try; it has been waiting patiently on my hard drive since last December.

Different game, different feel - but still the 2by3 detailed treatment, I know I will not be disappointed.

Mac



Sardaukar -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 7:26:59 PM)

It's good game...I'd say that it gives even better game vs. AI than WitP-AE. Probably beecause it is not as complex (tho it's pretty complex, but not to AE level).



Shupov -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/9/2012 9:12:26 PM)

WitE is the best entertainment value I've ever bought for the money. At this point it's cost maybe ten cents per hour of engrossing, exciting fun!



Gefreiter Wardstein -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/10/2012 5:10:18 PM)

Other than Advanced Squad Leader which I play FTF, this is the only game I've played for the last 16 months...... and still playing!



swkuh -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/11/2012 1:45:32 AM)

WitE is a pleasure to play because it stays true to itself. Its focus is on the conflict of forces and the arena in which this was played out. It is more detailed than I would prefer, but the details have purpose, and they are instructive to the reality of the Eastern Front. (So far as I know.)

Forum contributors are very useful, too..



hfarrish -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/11/2012 9:29:58 AM)


I think it's a great game, and I certainly have gotten more for my money than out of anything else. I am a pure PBEM player (never played against the AI) and that can have its frustrations, for sure - something you can read endless posts about on the board and that over time has slowly been improved (usually with one side or another suffering for it).

In any case, worth a buy for sure.



Apollo11 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/11/2012 9:38:30 AM)

Hi all,

IMHO the WitE is great game (but then again I am a bit biased [;)])! [:)]

For me the biggest value any game can have is re-playability and "bang for the buck" - in both the WitE excels (same as the UV / WitP / WitP-AE excel) and gives players hundreds / thousands of hours of enjoyment!!!


Leo "Apollo11"



Alan Sharif -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/11/2012 11:08:52 AM)

Just adding my voice to those who give a positive opinion on this title. It may take a bit of time to get your head around. Play the tutorial and use the manual. This is not a game you can just dive into ( which ( often do). However, you will be rewarded a thousand times over for you effort. It is the best East Front game on the market and excellent all round. Well worth the asking price.



Peltonx -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/11/2012 5:50:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Hi I have been looking at this game for a while,I have been on the fence wondering wether or not to buy,I'm 85% sure I will delve in soon,I have over 20 Matrix titles in my collection,and it looks like this will be my next purchase,I really like the look of this game,what do you guys think about this game?


Best Eastern Front game to date hands down.



Mac Linehan -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/12/2012 7:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Hi I have been looking at this game for a while,I have been on the fence wondering wether or not to buy,I'm 85% sure I will delve in soon,I have over 20 Matrix titles in my collection,and it looks like this will be my next purchase,I really like the look of this game,what do you guys think about this game?


Best Eastern Front game to date hands down.


Pelton, Apollo 11 -

Many years ago, in 1982, I was a Marine stationed in the Las Pulgas Area, Camp Pendleton California. At that time I played Squad Leader extensively, especially on weekends. For whatever reason, I am a "read all the rules first" kind of guy. I vividly recall buying the Squad Leader: "G.I. Anvil of Victory" expansion on a Friday, and reading through the weekend until I finished about six o'clock Sunday evening - very tired but ready to rock and roll.

Well, it seems that things haven't changed much. Last Friday night I made the decision to put WitP AE on hold and focus on reading the WitE rules. This was a major step, as I am very addicted to AE. I finished the rules at 11:00pm last night, and immediately began to work though the tutorial. Played until 1:30am this (Sunday) morning.

Well - was it worth it? Absolutely. Several times, in the WitE forum, it is stated that WitE has the most comprehensive combat system yet produced. I am now certain that this is the fact - even though I have yet to really play the game.

As with many others, I have most of Gary Grigsby's games. War in Russia (1993) was an awesome step forward in it's time. WitP AE is phenomenal. Now it is WitE's turn. There is no question that WitE will, as it's predecessors, measure up.

My sincere appreciation to the 2by3 Games Team, and to all those dedicated testers - Hard Sarge and Apollo 11 in particular - who contributed serious time and effort to make it all happen. I am very aware, as a WitE newbie, that there are many on this forum - with whom I am not yet familiar - who have contributed much towards this game. I look forward to getting to know you over time.

Mac





Apollo11 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/12/2012 8:14:17 PM)

Hi all,

Welcome on-board Malcolm! [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"



kirk23 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/13/2012 11:32:14 AM)

Ok folks I just purchased the game 15mins ago,downloading the latest update as I write this,so looking forward to playing the game after reading the manual first.



76mm -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/13/2012 12:16:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...in the WitE forum, it is stated that WitE has the most comprehensive combat system yet produced. I am now certain that this is the fact - even though I have yet to really play the game.


While I agree that this game provides good bang-for-the-buck, I don't like its combat system at all--it is over-engineered, convoluted, opaque, and ultimately not very "realistic" in many situations. And this is not even mentioning the "combat system" (and I apply the term loosely) for the air war. Play a couple of PBEM games and I'm sure that you'll see what I mean.



Templer_12 -> Light and dark (8/13/2012 12:37:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...in the WitE forum, it is stated that WitE has the most comprehensive combat system yet produced. I am now certain that this is the fact - even though I have yet to really play the game.


While I agree that this game provides good bang-for-the-buck, I don't like its combat system at all--it is over-engineered, convoluted, opaque, and ultimately not very "realistic" in many situations. And this is not even mentioning the "combat system" (and I apply the term loosely) for the air war.


I also like the game very much but I agree with 76mm and add:
Incomprehensible to me that they dispensed on "Concentic Attacks" feature on a game with such high demands. [sm=nono.gif]



swkuh -> RE: Light and dark (8/13/2012 6:31:56 PM)

Love the game for its insight to the Ostfront, but agree it is a bit techy-techy. With practice have become more efficient at the expense of sub-optimal techniques. Since I'm a bit slow I keep it simple.

Waiting for some sort of continuous action approach vs. IGOUGO approach. Any suggestions?



Schmart -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/13/2012 7:07:08 PM)

Personally, I found the game fairly intuitive to start playing. It was just a matter of quickly learning the user interface. Coming from a board gaming background, I jumped right into pushing counters around and clicking attack. WitE plays well enough on a simple setting without too much imcro-management (vs AI). Learning all the micro-management takes time and allows for playing on more difficult settings.

I think it's a little easier learning the Axis side because it's more of a combat/movement micro-management (a little bit more intuitive), whereas the Russians require micro-management in building their army, which requires quite a bit more historical background and OOB knowledge.



Mac Linehan -> RE: Light and dark (8/18/2012 1:13:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...in the WitE forum, it is stated that WitE has the most comprehensive combat system yet produced. I am now certain that this is the fact - even though I have yet to really play the game.


While I agree that this game provides good bang-for-the-buck, I don't like its combat system at all--it is over-engineered, convoluted, opaque, and ultimately not very "realistic" in many situations. And this is not even mentioning the "combat system" (and I apply the term loosely) for the air war.


I also like the game very much but I agree with 76mm and add:
Incomprehensible to me that they dispensed on "Concentic Attacks" feature on a game with such high demands. [sm=nono.gif]


76mm and Templer -

I respect and appreciate your comments and thoughts. Do not yet have enough experience to respond intelligently.

It' Saturday morning, and I will get on it and play through the day... <grin>

Mac





turtlefang -> RE: Light and dark (8/18/2012 10:39:12 PM)

I'm fairly new and just played this game for this summer or so.

If you like large, hex based games similar to the old SPI monster games or AH Longest Day, you will be very happy with this one. If your looking for something targeted toward first person shooters, this one not it. It takes a lot of time and effort to play, but provides you the opportunity to play at the division (German)/corp & division level (Soviet) side which means you have hundreds/thousands of units to manage.

From a monster game POV, its one of the best I have ever played - although I haven't play the Pacific War version that GG produced. Does it have some things that I would like to see changed? Sure. If I could change things, I would like to have, in order: a better AI, the ability to run the German economy at least to the level of Soviet economy, a better air combat system, a better (or more transparent combat system, really not sure which at this point), and the ability to direct some of the resources into different OBs rather than automatic routing.

But don't take this as reasons NOT to play/purchase the game. Every game has "I wants". The question always gets down in my mind - would I recommend this to a friend - and the answer is - I already have to several. That, to me, is the ultimate test of whether its worth it IF your looking for a large, detailed strategic monster game based on the i go/you go sequence.



Mac Linehan -> RE: Light and dark (8/19/2012 2:25:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang

I'm fairly new and just played this game for this summer or so.

If you like large, hex based games similar to the old SPI monster games or AH Longest Day, you will be very happy with this one. If your looking for something targeted toward first person shooters, this one not it. It takes a lot of time and effort to play, but provides you the opportunity to play at the division (German)/corp & division level (Soviet) side which means you have hundreds/thousands of units to manage.

From a monster game POV, its one of the best I have ever played - although I haven't play the Pacific War version that GG produced. Does it have some things that I would like to see changed? Sure. If I could change things, I would like to have, in order: a better AI, the ability to run the German economy at least to the level of Soviet economy, a better air combat system, a better (or more transparent combat system, really not sure which at this point), and the ability to direct some of the resources into different OBs rather than automatic routing.

But don't take this as reasons NOT to play/purchase the game. Every game has "I wants". The question always gets down in my mind - would I recommend this to a friend - and the answer is - I already have to several. That, to me, is the ultimate test of whether its worth it IF your looking for a large, detailed strategic monster game based on the i go/you go sequence.


turtlefang -

Agree with your assessment. There are always aspects of any game that the individual gamer would like to see improved or changed; overall I am very pleased with WitE. I am confident that the 2by3 Team will keep at it (in addition to a heavy work load!) and continue to improve the game.

I was an avid player of SPI's War in the East / West. WitE is indeed a worthy successor. Really only started playing this weekend, am still in the "play and experiment then reread the pertinent rules again" mode; but am making steady progress and learning.

Kudos to Leo (Apollo 11) for the v0.55 rules update, having the changes listed sequentially in red makes it so much easier.

Mac




Templer_12 -> Light and darkness (8/19/2012 12:22:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang

But don't take this as reasons NOT to play/purchase the game. Every game has "I wants". The question always gets down in my mind - would I recommend this to a friend - and the answer is - I already have to several. That, to me, is the ultimate test of whether its worth it IF your looking for a large, detailed strategic monster game based on the i go/you go sequence.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
Kudos to Leo (Apollo 11) for the v0.55 rules update, having the changes listed sequentially in red makes it so much easier.

Right.

Gary Grigsby's War in the East can bring you great fun.

For all those whom Gary's war is too is huge, I recommend a serious look at the current, and excellent Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue, which maybe goes a little bit under the radar for a lot of players.

Not necessarily as competing title but as excellent alternative and additional, accessible historical operational simulation.



Mac Linehan -> RE: Light and darkness (8/19/2012 4:32:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

Gary Grigsby's War in the East can bring you great fun.

For all those whom Gary's war is too is huge, I recommend a serious look at the current, and excellent Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue, which maybe goes a little bit under the radar for a lot of players.

Not necessarily as competing title but as excellent alternative and additional, accessible historical operational simulation.


Templer -

Case Blue / WtP are definite "must buys" for me. WitE first, as I recently bought the "Don to the Danube" expansion. In my view, the two sets of games complement each other; as they use differing scales and approaches; both are First Class.

Templer, am glad that you are still around and active; I remember when you would join us on the AE forums.

I am playing the Velikie Luki scenario, with much referencing the rules to see how it all works. The turns are very fast - even with my detailed treatment and planning. Nice change from AE - where I would spend several hours on one turn (but enjoy every minute of it!).

Mac




Flaviusx -> RE: Light and darkness (8/19/2012 5:31:47 PM)

Case Blue is a fine game, but I think it is doing something different than WitE. It scratches a different itch for me, at any rate.



Grungar -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/20/2012 1:06:44 PM)

War in the East is without question the best simulation of the eastern front of its scale. My opinion is based on a book i read in 1985. Operation Barbarossa Strategy and Tactics on the eastern Front 1941 by Brian Fugate. It was the first book of its kind based on declassified russian war data written as a warning concerning the current allied command style and of its dangers should we find ourselves in conventional war with the reds. The book talked a certain way..and war in the east talks that same way..I can see zhukov drooling in his grave wishing he had such tools to train with. No game is perfect. This game seems to be flawed more in its first turn fog of war problem for play and some bugs within its calculating system...ie it can lag even on powerful machines but its nothing a restart cant fix.[&o]



Redmarkus5 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/21/2012 1:05:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
...in the WitE forum, it is stated that WitE has the most comprehensive combat system yet produced. I am now certain that this is the fact - even though I have yet to really play the game.


While I agree that this game provides good bang-for-the-buck, I don't like its combat system at all--it is over-engineered, convoluted, opaque, and ultimately not very "realistic" in many situations. And this is not even mentioning the "combat system" (and I apply the term loosely) for the air war. Play a couple of PBEM games and I'm sure that you'll see what I mean.



Yep! +1 to that.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/21/2012 1:21:32 PM)

I own all of the games mentioned above and have played them extensively:

- WitP AE (and before that WitP and also UV). I was also addicted to this for many years and regard it as possibly the finest strategic WW2 simulation ever produced.
- Warsaw to Paris. I liked the approach but the scenarios were not ones that really kept me engaged.
- WitE. My view is that the game is over-engineered, has a number of serious AI and other issues and doesn't seem to play out well past spring 1942. Dev perhaps bit off more than he was willing to chew and has now moved on to focus on his next release, WitW, apparently leaving WitE in the lurch, though that's only my impression and may be unfair. This should have been my dream game, but I stopped playing it after only a year.
- Decisive Campaigns Case Blue. This, in my opinion, is actually the top East Front game out there. Fabulous design, intuitive yet rich, completely mod-able to an extent rarely seen in a game of this type, the might and long-lived TOAW being the obvious comparison. Excellent support from the developer who is always on the forum and takes player/modder inputs in an open, intelligent and positive fashion.

DCCB will be the TOAW/WitP of the current decade because it's a game design engine as much as it is part of a series. Modders are already working on new maps and new scenarios for DCCB while WitE is difficult/impossible to mod to a comparable extent. So, once you have taken Moscow, what next? It's mod-ability that leads to longevity in game terms.



Michael T -> RE: How good is this game ? (8/21/2012 10:19:04 PM)

WITE has its warts. But it is unquestionalbly the best 'whole war' East Front "PC" game out there. You may find others that do a better job on one area or that are at a different scale. But not that cover the whole front from 41 to 45. Simple as that. It's the best value for money "PC" game I have ever played.



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