RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (Full Version)

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Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/15/2012 10:36:44 AM)

Any thoughts? Perhaps one of Hate's team mates might take his turn?



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/15/2012 2:39:13 PM)

Yep sounds good means Sail or Web will have more on their plate



Tac2i -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/15/2012 4:49:43 PM)

It's a real bummer when a player just disappears. I'll discuss with Phil and see what we want to do.



Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/17/2012 9:26:43 PM)

You guys are just screwing around because your chicken, and because you seen the size of the boot that I was about to drive up your as.ses :-)
Just kidding.
Perhaps the keeper of the passwords could take his turn.
Meanie



SailingGuy -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/20/2012 7:21:51 PM)

Hey guys,
Not that it matters, but...
I will be out of town for the holiday and will not have access to a computer.
Fair winds,
Phil



Tac2i -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/21/2012 1:55:46 AM)

I've tried contacting hatemf90 multiple times without any response. I'm not certain he communicated his password to anyone either. Phil and I are not excited about the idea of playing his turn anyway. As much as I dislike saying so, I believe the best course of action is simply to chuck this game on the dead pile. Sure wish players would not just disappear like this.



Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/21/2012 2:52:16 AM)

Is any one else interested in restarting? I am in if you guys are.
Iron plays quickly, and the same with Jafele. SG and W4eb are no problem so we just need a sixth.
Perhaps we could simplify the start up.
Sailing Guy's team as the home team goes first.
That team takes 1st 2nd and 3rd turns. Then other team goes. Much less confusion. Just a thought.



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/21/2012 1:43:14 PM)

If we could make the game less linear a messy map makes for a more interesting Game. The previous map configuration was more like a ancient/napoleonic battle left wing right wing Center. Maybe a map with some naval element in it to stop the tank/cavalry rush.



Jafele -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/21/2012 4:50:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

If we could make the game less linear a messy map makes for a more interesting Game. The previous map configuration was more like a ancient/napoleonic battle left wing right wing Center. Maybe a map with some naval element in it to stop the tank/cavalry rush.



+1



Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/22/2012 10:49:23 AM)

quote:

If we could make the game less linear a messy map makes for a more interesting Game. The previous map configuration was more like a ancient/napoleonic battle left wing right wing Center. Maybe a map with some naval element in it to stop the tank/cavalry rush.


WTF? This is not what we signed up for. We did a one town start. we were on turn 9 and no one was dead yet. I win most of my games by turn 9. How much freaking slower do you want the game to go? May as well do stone age start with expensive research, then you will get 6 months to move all of your little guys around before anyone has to start fighting. I guess then everyone could form nice little WWI type lines and have artillery duels and attrition warfare. Hell, you could even start making stupid rules like no cavalry and no tanks and whatever else.
Whatever, it is up to Phil as it is his thread. If Phil does anything else to slow the game down, I am out.
Meanfcker.



CarlVon -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/23/2012 1:48:36 AM)

+1 for Meanfcker.

Yes, everyone tries to slow this game down and turn it in to WWI. If that's what you like, more power too you. But from the little I have learned from Mean, warfare means concentration of force, Boldness, Speed and Striking Power. Although the Navy is close to my heart, I see no need for it yet until there is a team that can take out Meanfcker's team on the ground, I think it's coming.

Regarding the Cav / Tank Rush, introducing a Navy will not help you. (Unless you are on separate islands), It will actully make it easier for a tank rush to win, because resources will be wasted on a Navy and a navy is very expensive.

Seriously, at the beginning I used to try to slow the game down, with shouwd, one city start, etc. And he would still beat me over and over again, because I like winning more than loosing, I have adopted his tactics. When I finally read "On War", I finally understood what it was talking about. I think there are a couple folks that can take on Mean on a 1 on 1, but Strategically there is no one... yet. I plead for people not to go back to the "form lines and push", our Armies are much more deadly when they are liquid. I have truly been witness now to various commanders making art on the ATG battlefield. I would really like to see players get better and be able to take it to Meanfckers team (which I am a part of).

You must understand, Mean means no disrespect, we get frustrated when people want to put us in cages. We are Patton, Rommel, Guderian and SunTzu (Among Others), and war is an art of color, fluidness and friction.



Jafele -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/23/2012 3:23:02 PM)

Everybody knows I love sea scenarios but I donīt mind to play any other maps so I freely choose to play desert war. Guys, I just want to PLAY. Returning to real life, someone left the game and thatīs the true problem. Like it or not, it looks nobody want to join us. As I said once, we need dependable people. We have three options:

1-Wait until the end of times.
2-Start a similar scenario with less players.
3-Start a similar scenario with hardcore production. From my experience itīs really interesting, many people talk about it without knowledge. Patton, Rommel or Guderian would feel quiet dissapointed watching units flying like birds every time you buy them. Never forget ATG is a wargame not a fantasy game[:-]



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/23/2012 5:05:23 PM)

Option 3 sounds good a explanation of how a hardcore production works would be appreciated



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/23/2012 5:30:11 PM)

WOW that was a long rant I asked for more interesting map so shoot me


And also I might add the exploit that some people are not aware of is that new production is sent from factories and cities directly to HQ's with no transport cost. So if you start a game and want a large force in any location quickly just stick a HQ there and direct your new production to that location. I prefer a accurate model for transportation and infrastructure, creates real logistical problems.



Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/25/2012 12:02:35 PM)

Please accept my apologies for my rant. I surely did not mean to offend. I get a little frustrated sometimes. When I showed up in this forum, every player I came across was fighting WWI style line warfare and all of the battles were exercises in attrition/artillery grind warfare. I figured out that by going to larger maps mobility became possible. At first many players didn't like what I was doing, but gradually many of the better ones started to adapt similar methods. Some of the best games I have been in were the ones where the enemy conducted large Operations with highly mobile armoured groups (All5n comes to mind). The ability to produce reserves and send right to the front has a great precedent in history, Russia in WWII. Stavka was able to put new, albeit green armies in front of the Germans, seemingly at will. There are lots of guys who like trench warfare and games of this sort are very easy to find and start. I personally find them very boring and predictable. I don't feel any excitement when I open them. On the other hand, I have a completely mobile game on the go with Lazyboy and WOW, I open the game with nervous excitement when it gets back to me. Many of the game concepts that players come up with, serve to slow the game down and make it more predictable. eg, shroud, one town start, expensive research. All of these things tend to reduce the ability to engage in strategic planning, thereby denying the early and mid game use of the strategic reserve. This leads to slow, line type warfare and that is not for me.
I am not trying to make everyone play my way. If you guys really prefer the slower type of war, that is fine and I respect that. I really enjoy the big wild west shoot outs and that is the only type of game that I have interest in.
To summarize, I am in if we can restart under identical conditions. I am sure we could get one more guy in if we restart.
Meanfcker.



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/25/2012 3:09:54 PM)

No offence taken but there are two sides to every coin. True Stavka did manage to throw large numbers of rifle divisions at the Germans but we all know what happened to the them they got chewed up in the meat grinder. Soviet infantry won their greatest victories where German mobility was negated. And that is true at the beginning of these large map games schwerpunkt is obtained by concentrating forces from new production to HQ,s as far forward as you can get them. What is also true is that at the beginning of these games there is no army on either side just a few mortars and machineguns, and no heavy weapons at all. So you can win a war very quickly if you can concentrate quickly and overwhelm the meager forces that your opponent has aquired in the two or three turns of the game. The soviet Army at the beginning of Barbarossa was enormous they had a considerable numerical advantage in Tanks planes heavy weapons men etc. Yet the Germans overcame the odds. But lost the war. Before I bore everyone half to death a game should not be formulaic but challenging there should be more than one way to win. At the least Rock paper scissors and more if they can be added and make sense.



Meanfcker -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/25/2012 5:20:46 PM)

quote:

So you can win a war very quickly if you can concentrate quickly and overwhelm the meager forces that your opponent has aquired in the two or three turns of the game.

This is true. But after a couple of games it is hard to pull on someone. Once my opponents started playing like I do, the games whirled around until we were both exhausted, and then settled down while we both regained our strength. I do not ride roughshod over Lazyboy or All5n or Shadehawk or CarlVon. They just won't let me. They learned fast and adapted well and are able to play the big mobile maps with enjoyment.
As for the meager forces. As soon as I identify an enemy Shwerpunkt, I start making plans for a massive trap. "The board shoud be afraid of the fist, not the other way around." There are quite a few players out there now that watched in horror as their Operational Manuever Group stumbled into a well set trap and brought about the collapse of thier entire theater of Operations. It is at this level that real strategy comes into play. Until then, it is all Tactics with some players dabbling at Operations. Anyway some like apple pie some like cherry, neither is wrong. I just prefer the mobile warfare over the static.
Meanie.



SailingGuy -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/27/2012 2:55:52 PM)

I much prefer the one town start, slow build, explore the world...Civilization style games. I just don't have time to enjoy games with massive amounts of units, HQs, etc. Plus, as most of you know, I'm a naval guy.

One of the great things about ATG is that it can accommodate many playing styles and tastes.

Multi-player games are starting to be a problem. With more than four playing, the games tend to grind to a halt. Even the Pentagon games died. In the future I'll only set up games with four or less players.



ironduke1955 -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/27/2012 7:12:27 PM)

War at Sea was a fun game I was a having fun with carrier groups with Submarine screens. Trouble is I have noticed in these games when your having the most fun it normally means that your opponent is not having fun ): at all



Jafele -> RE: The Messy Desert War 3v3 [RECRUITING] (11/27/2012 7:28:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingGuy
Multi-player games are starting to be a problem. With more than four playing, the games tend to grind to a halt. Even the Pentagon games died. In the future I'll only set up games with four or less players.


The more people play the easiest to break a game. Furthermore, many people means slow game speed. For the future I will play any kind of map but only with hardcore production.



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