RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (Full Version)

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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 12:07:45 AM)
May 17, 1942 Calculated Risks [image]local://upfiles/31387/6EFF8BC637A24046B9D7761D36166691.jpg[/image] 1) This was a difficult turn to plan. I went back three times and adjusted courses and air orders, ending up about where I started. During planning, two IJN TFs showed. One inside the northern Strait, which read as a 2-ships TF. I presumed it was ASW, as it had tangled with one of my subs in the past few days. Not to say TFs can't swap, but that was my guess. The other was one hex NW of Sabang and read as one unknown ship. I have a small surviving Hudson unit at Sabang on Search, but I knew this was worng. The TF has read as carriers before. I was fine with that. The question was, were they there to support a landing at Sabang or to lead a turn around the tip and a run down the west side to land at Padang in order to march on PBang? To oppose, I had an RN carrier TF with Hermes and two conventionals, Swordfish and Albacores, plus decent fighters left but not enough. And two BB-led surface groups, one Force Z, the other based on two old R-type, both with mostly DDs in escort. Both also very low on fuel. I had one replenishment group to the west, but only with about 7000 fuel. Cocos has more, plus an AKE. The carriers had more fuel, but not enough to share. So, what to do? I sent the carriers due south on the x=axis you can see in the screenshot. CAP at 50%. TBs on heavy Search to the SE. The BB TFs I also ordered south, in mutually-suporting react postures, and one to take the fuel from the replenishment group tomorrow. The other was going to have to rely on Cocos and crossed-fingers. I saw three possibilities for the Japanese carriers: 1) Support for Sabang, they stay put, I'm good. 2) Support for a run on Padang, they come around the corner, hug the coast for LBA help and to avoid subs in deep water, and I'm good. 3) They know what I have and where, and they hunt. Mike took Door #3. The surface TFs did not play a part. And, two more red TFs appeared on the replay. The northern one is, I think, the little lost lamb of a CA/DD, but I don't know that. The one SE of Great Nocobar I don't know what that is. I suppose it could be a landing force to take an AF to oppose Pt. Blair, but Japan has a lot of undone work still before they ought to be worrying about moves like that. So, if that's what it is, I'm OK with it. But the IJN carriers, Junyo and Hiyo at least, attacked the RN. The CAP did very well, but there just weren't enough to burn through. Most of the Kates had bombs, but not all. The armored flight decks did well as some bombs got a "belt armor struck" message, not a damage report. I think Hermes might be a goner, but the others I have hopes for. Some of the air bingoed to Sabang, some to alternate decks, so at least one deck is working, but might be over-loaded. Tomorow I have to figure out how to drive the BBs. Chase the contact to the north and then to Colombo for fulll fuel? Continue south? Hang around and oppose a landing at Sabang, knowing there are carriers? There's no reason to land on Sabang; a march from Medan is low-cost, although slower. Sabang is a thorn to Japan, and the preferred port for Medan oil, and he might be in a hurry now, but it's not mandatory for Japan to have soon. I need time to get more into PBang, especially the US Army division in the wormhole. My USN ships are also a week out of CT. Mostly DDs, but they will give me raiding I don't have with Force Z. POW needs her January upgrade still as well. Anyway, the battle: Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 37,67 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 98 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 42 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 30 B5N1 Kate x 11 B5N2 Kate x 10 D3A1 Val x 27 Allied aircraft Sea Hurricane Ib x 11 Martlet II x 9 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged B5N1 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak D3A1 Val: 5 damaged Allied aircraft losses Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed Martlet II: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 4 CV Indomitable, Bomb hits 5 CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires CLAA Van Heemskerck CA Devonshire, Bomb hits 1 Aircraft Attacking: 11 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 3 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Hermes ------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 40,67 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 17 Allied aircraft Sea Hurricane Ib x 4 Swordfish I x 15 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed Swordfish I: 8 destroyed ------------------------------------ Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 40,67 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 21 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 10 Allied aircraft Albacore I x 12 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses Albacore I: 3 destroyed 2) Big air battles over Djambi as well. Japan has embellished the CAP there with many Oscars, suggesting that now oil ports are open up north he doesn't want to lose the supply now, any more than already. The Allies have a few P-38s in the fight, and they hold the line for the most part, losing one, but letting some of the bombers get through for 2 Oil hits. Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 5 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 9 Allied aircraft B-25C Mitchell x 2 Hudson I x 5 P-38E Lightning x 3 P-39D Airacobra x 3 P-40E Warhawk x 1 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged Hudson I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged Oil hits 2 ------------------------- Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 2 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 2 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 3 Allied aircraft A-24 Banshee x 11 P-38E Lightning x 3 P-39D Airacobra x 2 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses A-24 Banshee: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged ------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Djambi , at 48,88 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 1 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 1 Allied aircraft B-25C Mitchell x 2 P-38E Lightning x 3 P-39D Airacobra x 3 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed 3) Allied strat bombing continues with a failed night attack on Sian Oil, an attack on Singers' shipyard (1 B-26 lost, no damage), 3 Liberators on Brunei Oil for 2 hits, and an HI attack on Kunming for 5 hits with 2706 Fires remaining from previous days' strikes. 4) Prome CAP battles end with the Allies ahead a bit. There is no bombing here, so I wonder. More and more LCUs are approacing Prome, where about 1200 AV are altready digging in. 5) An I-boat SE of Ceylon takes an AG in a supply TF for Port Blair. USS Trigger, patrolling on the deep/shallow line SE of the southern tip of Korea, sinks xAKL Nichiro Maru, under escort. Probably a Resource hauler. 6) In China, a lot of action. A tank LCU (12th Reg. from probe bombing) appears on the yelow road in the high mountains to the east of the Big Stack. It's posisble some supply from Chungking might be getting past it, but not much, which means Chungking's supply deterioration is worse than I thought, and mostly due to bombing. A strong response force commences a march out of Chungking to the west to fight the one LCU camped there, an ID I beleive. Arty comes with. A probe bombardment is done at Neikiang, to the west of Chungking and a Resource feeder. It is not strongly held, and only has Forts 2+. The stack readying an attack is very tank heavy. Ground combat at Neikiang (75,44) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 11807 troops, 108 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 480 Defending force 39013 troops, 224 guns, 553 vehicles, Assault Value = 1366 Allied ground losses: 39 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Assaulting units: 51st Chinese Corps 2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps 3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps 7th Construction Regiment 3rd Group Army 39th Group Army Defending units: 24th Division 2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment 11th Tank Regiment 3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade 3rd Tank Regiment 10th Tank Regiment 20th Recon Regiment 9th Ind.Mixed Brigade 28th Engineer Regiment 26th Engineer Regiment 1st Army 5th Army The Big Stack went to 4 miles on its march toward history. 7) Finally, in the PI, the Allies kept up the harrassment bombardments at Bataan. A 3-plane Cat unit due to withdraw in two weeks is snuck into Cebu, which has a small LI installation, and ordered to fly in whatever it can to Bataan as long as it lasts. Bataan is becoming a pride target as June approaches.

JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 2:22:59 PM)
You aren´t using the precious P38s for escort I hope? [X(]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 8:02:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister You aren´t using the precious P38s for escort I hope? [X(] Sweep and LRCAP. They did their jobs. No fighter is more important than destroying Oil. Objectives before assets, always. Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree. HMS Devonshire (CA) has 19/5/2/0. Needs to retire, may not be an affordable gift.

JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 8:13:01 PM)
Puh! I thought you had gone bonkers! [:D] Good news on the Hermes. I have seen some people describing Hermes as fragile but it has take quite a pounding in my game is still floating around. [:)]

koniu -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 8:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree. British CVs are like battleships without guns.. Best way to sunk them is torpedo hit. 250kg bombs bounce most of the time. They have 75mm deck armor. Essex class CVs have only 25mm. They are very hard to sunk, if only they have bigger plane capacity

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 9:03:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Puh! I thought you had gone bonkers! [:D] Good news on the Hermes. I have seen some people describing Hermes as fragile but it has take quite a pounding in my game is still floating around. [:)] She's quite stout for her size, but can't carry enough planes to be that useful.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 9:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: koniu quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 Just opened the next turn and got some nice news. Hermes has 41 system, but only 31 float and no fires. Might make it. HMS Illustrious has 6/2/2/0. HMS Indomitable has 2/0/0/0. Both are low on planes though. Mike commented in email that his 250kg bombs seemed to bounce to a great degree. British CVs are like battleships without guns.. Best way to sunk them is torpedo hit. 250kg bombs bounce most of the time. They have 75mm deck armor. Essex class CVs have only 25mm. They are very hard to sunk, if only they have bigger plane capacity Yep. My heart sank when I saw the strike package coming, and rose again when I saw Kates dropping bombs.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/26/2013 11:52:19 PM)
May 18th Planning Map This is the Bay of B. at the start of the turn, and what I ordered. [image]local://upfiles/31387/EE91EAA285BF425483E4F74056B8126C.jpg[/image] Hermes can only make 16 kts, so it and a DD are put in Escort, sent in a U-shaped course to end at Colombo. The remaining Air TF pulls the TBs off Sabang, and heads NW to perhaps intercept what reads as a force of 3 BBs heading generally for Ceylon. (Merchant raid?) The Non-Force Z surface group rolls dice and will charge across the IJN Air TF ZOC to take on the possible landing force at Great Nicobar. I'm hoping a combo of low sorties/torpedo inventory, targeting confusion, and BB hulls to make most of these ships survivable. Force Z will refuel and move slightly west to wait and watch Sabang. The retreating CA/DD TF in the Strait is up to the subs. Low odds, but that's what I have.

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/27/2013 7:30:11 AM)
That's indicative of some pretty big cojones to be sending your R-Class force east. Good luck. Cheers, CC

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/27/2013 4:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Commander Cody That's indicative of some pretty big cojones to be sending your R-Class force east. Good luck. Cheers, CC I've seen the movie now, and it went medium-bad. Still would do it again with what I had, which is the beauty of the game and real naval warfare. Land war is mostly about terrain, flanking, supply flows, and command radius. At contact it often becomes small-unit leadership and individual atomic level unit training and morale. Naval warfare is very different. Outside the vessel's internal organization and the CO--officer--crew interfaces, it's often about three variables--time, range, speed. If a fourth is needed I'd insert sensors. The old BBs had a range of options on a time, range, speed spectrum. All of them were bad given IJN carriers and the lack of Allied local air capability. There's nowhere to hide at sea except in weather, and this game has advanced weather OFF. If they had run NW they might have reduced the dl and attack chance, but they can't outrun the Air, and if they ran they couldn't do anything positive toward the Allied objective set. In this case slow Japanese plans primarily, inflict damage requiring withdrawl, and, very last, consume Japanese ammo while the nearest re-arm is Singers (Rangoon can't take BBs or CVs.) The battle was lopsided and the bet about a landing at Great Nicobar did not pay out. But I'd still do it again. Not every loss is a mistake.

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/27/2013 4:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 ... Not every loss is a mistake. You put MacArthur, Tom Phillips and Percival on those BBs??! Tell us how we can do that! [:D]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/27/2013 4:47:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 ... Not every loss is a mistake. You put MacArthur, Tom Phillips and Percival on those BBs??! Tell us how we can do that! [:D] Not sure I get your point?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/27/2013 5:14:46 PM)
May 18, 1942 Decisions 1) Don't have a screenshot from the movie. But the IJN TFs in the Bay coalesced into one hex NW of Great Nicobar, and WEST of the RN BB TF by a hex. The possible landing on the island did not occur. It's possible that TF is an ASW flanker for the carriers, but I truly don't really know what it is. Also, the "3 BB" TF seen yesterday to the NW either came to meet the carriers, or moved out of sight, possibly continuing on a course for Ceylon. There is a large black hole in the middle of the Bay I don't have LBA search which can reach. The good news is the RN carriers were left alone. They didn't attack anything either. Also, so far as I know, Force Z is undetected and represents a cocked fist for the Allies to use, or not. More risk if I move it to engage, but no upside if I leave it to the west for another day. Pondeirng that. The RN BB TF took heavy blows. The IJN carriers had torpedoes left, although they have to be fairly low by now. On fuel as well. Some IJN planes were lost to use, mostly from damage. That plays into any decision on Force Z. There were two heavy strikes on the surface TF: Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,63 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 41 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 26 B5N1 Kate x 11 B5N2 Kate x 10 D3A1 Val x 27 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak D3A1 Val: 5 damaged D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak Allied Ships BB Revenge, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage CL Emerald CA Cornwall, Bomb hits 1 CL Glasgow CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 11 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 3 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 2 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 3 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb ------------------------ Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,63 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 50 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 26 B5N1 Kate x 11 B5N2 Kate x 8 D3A1 Val x 26 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied Ships CL Emerald CL Glasgow CA Cornwall, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage CL Danae, Bomb hits 1, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 11 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 10000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 2 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 13 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 3 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 11 x D3A1 Val bombing from 3000 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb ------------------------- RS is likely a goner. No sunk ships sounds were heard in the movie though. RN damage control at this phase of the war is the best in the game, and Colombo is not that far. I will have to jigger TF compositions around and save what is possible. And decide what to do with Z. This battle did pull the IJN farther into the Bay. To support Sabang these TFs may need full-bore visits to Singers, past the subs both ways. More subs are sailing from Colombo next turn and more are in the wormhole inbound. 2) Had a strange one which might be FOW, but I've never seen it I can recall. Sub attack near Donggala at 69,96 Japanese Ships xAK Nitti Maru, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Mochizuki Allied Ships SS S-36 Japanese ground losses: 31 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled During the attack a text message about severe fires in fuel cargo flashed by. I've never seen an xAK carrying an LCU also be hauling fuel. Pretty good chance this one sinks. Also good to see atttacks past, and not on, escorts. 3) Heavy sweeps at Pt. Blair. Later AF attack damages all 8 Albacores there. 4) Chungking pounded, but so is Chengtu (Japan loses 3 bombers, 4 damaged.) A division of effort which might let Chungking off the mat a bit. A probe bombardment at Neikiang shows Japan how light are the defenses. Two LCUs have closed two retreat paths, but China still has two left. There's no point in running; the forces there are better off in city terrain than on the road to Chungking. It's likely they will be destroyed in detail and be reborn at Chungking. Chungking has tens of thousands of Resources in stock; the AF bombing is destroying supply faster than it can be made, however. 5) Allies bombard at Bataan and do 108 casualties. No sign Japan has noticed the resupply effort from Cebu. 6) Allied strat attacks include high-low at Djambi with 2Es at 100 feet and DBs glide bombing, with esocrts. Light losses to both sides but only 1 Oil hit. A lone Liberator hits HI at Saigon in a "I'm heeeere!" attack. No damage, but the target rotation is useful. Kunming HI is hit for 11 points. 330 HI points a month not going into the pool unless repaired.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/28/2013 3:33:26 PM)
This is the Tracker damage screen for major damage in TFs at the start of planning for May 19th. The RN BBs hang in there, much less damaged than I feared. With luck and some very fancy footwork they might make Colombo. I have not yet looked at withdrawl dates which might still bite me. Colombo can't really handle this volume of major float and remain effective for minor damage, so some of these will need to go off-map after some patching. Still, wow. Great DC. I also see Mike has started multiple threads/posts about IJN 800 kg bombs versus 250s. He is very frustrated over this issue. Email too. Still, an old BB that can take four fish and still make way? Amazing. [image]local://upfiles/31387/D5D009E610E24F6ABBE72603FD703D4D.jpg[/image]

JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/28/2013 7:15:57 PM)
Good news on the BBs! [:)] Make sure you have turned off "allow ship upgrades" before putting them into repair mode. Otherwise they might start any pending upgrades and flip to refitting. If so they get stuck there for a few 100 turns costing a hefty amount of PPs. Been there...luckily only with a xAP that cost me some 800 PPs before I could disband it. [:(]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/28/2013 7:35:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Good news on the BBs! [:)] Make sure you have turned off "allow ship upgrades" before putting them into repair mode. Otherwise they might start any pending upgrades and flip to refitting. If so they get stuck there for a few 100 turns costing a hefty amount of PPs. Been there...luckily only with a xAP that cost me some 800 PPs before I could disband it. [:(] Yeah, I need to check that. The withdraws are mostly later 1943 though. I sent the turn back with some of the fanciest footwork I've ever done. If the Japanese carriers go NW one set of things happen. If they go SE another set. If they go west I have no idea. I'm trying to use DG as a stop for the heavily-hurt, with widely-divergent waypoints to get there. Some repair will be at CT, some will be at UK or EC. Colombo is already overworked with CAs and light carrier work. The TF set next to the last known position of the IJN is going to open like a flower. I'm hoping the targeting routines throw up. And I in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound-ed Force Z and sent it hunting, assuming the NW option. Might lose POW. Might catch a good IJN BB or a CV with its pants down. Such is war. I've been saving it, and this enemy TF deep in my yard is as good a target as I've had. So there it goes.

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 2:30:48 AM)
I strongly suspect at least two of those torp hits on RS were FOW. Still, the crew is doing well to still be afloat. Maybe its the coal in her bunkers not leaking out like oil would!

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 1:45:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy I strongly suspect at least two of those torp hits on RS were FOW. Still, the crew is doing well to still be afloat. Maybe its the coal in her bunkers not leaking out like oil would! I know exactly nothing about RN BB designs. Are you kidding about the coal, or was she still pre-oil? I have the movie file and am a bit worried. Mike's email with it was pretty jolly. So here I am, stalling.[;)]

catwhoorg -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 2:13:09 PM)
RS had oil fired boilers. A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 2:36:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catwhoorg RS had oil fired boilers. A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers. Ah, thanks.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 2:48:29 PM)
May 19, 1942 BOING! BOING! 1) Well, the cunning plan in the Bay of B. worked half-way. The flower opened up, and the targeting routines did indeed throw up. Allied ships running in all directions, and Force Z came on the field with full AA and no damge to drain some of the metal away from the wounded. Z did not have enough movement to reach the IJN carriers at React=6. There were a lot of hits, but over a dozen were 250kg bombs bouncing off BB armor. A couple of torpedoes where I didn't want them, one CL lost, but the RN carriers continued home safe, and everybody scattered, complicating the Japanese problem of range, time, and speed. One screen-shot from the middle of the day shows the Japanese search and targeting problem: [image]local://upfiles/31387/CFC934241B4247D298A026A3375F67AF.jpg[/image] Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 92 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 39 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 18 B5N1 Kate x 6 B5N2 Kate x 6 D3A1 Val x 6 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied Ships BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1 BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire ------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 41,65 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 D3A1 Val x 7 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied Ships BB Royal Sovereign, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage ---------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft D3A1 Val x 2 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak Allied Ships DD Vampire ------------------------------------------ Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 35,68 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 84 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 36 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 B5N1 Kate x 11 B5N2 Kate x 5 D3A1 Val x 10 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged D3A1 Val: 3 damaged Allied Ships BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 5 BC Repulse, Bomb hits 5, heavy damage CA Dorsetshire ------------------------------------------------------ Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Great Nicobar at 39,66 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 24 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 9 D3A1 Val x 12 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 2 damaged Allied Ships BB Revenge, Bomb hits 7 CL Hobart, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage (Sank later) --------------------------------------------------------- Roayl S. is probably really a goner this time, and Revenge may have Fires too great to handle at sea. But I was happily surprised yesterday, so who knows? Of main interest is how badly Repulse was gored. The sortie rate and lost/damaged IJN aircraft suggest this TF might head home now, but we shall see. 2) Japan begins landing at vacant Lautem and is met with I think the first air defense of a landing to date. Allied defenses on Timor are at Koepang. Not great, but in supply with some Forts. Amphibious Assault at Lautem (72,115) TF 115 troops unloading over beach at Lautem, 72,115 Japanese ground losses: 127 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled ---------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 72,115 Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Allied aircraft SBD-3 Dauntless x 10 No Allied losses Japanese Ships xAK Zenyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage Japanese ground losses: 64 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled --------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 72,115 Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Allied aircraft SBD-3 Dauntless x 10 No Allied losses Japanese Ships xAK Zenyo Maru, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Oite xAK Toho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire DD Hayate Japanese ground losses: 120 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled) 3) In northern Sumatra Japan lands at vacant Langsa. Only vehicles are lost in the surf, suggesting this might be tanks only. An ASW TF offshore holes HMS Trusty. I would like to keep her on station if possible, waiting for retiring carriers. 4) Prome sees sweep battles again, but no bombing. Odd. This base is still growing with the arrival of more LCUs from the north. As far as I can tell there is no land attack coming. Chungking is also heavily swept by over 60 fighters (no CAP), as is Pt. Blair, ditto. Chungking is bombed by 11 Lily, and 11 Lily are damaged. 5) Bataan is bombed and the Allies bombard. Supply leaking in from Cebu untouched. 6) 11 B-17s hit Djambi Oil against strong CAP which comes in four waves of reinforcments. 1 point of damage, but only damage to the Forts. The P-38 sweep comes late at 28,000, but shoots down 4 Zeros for no losses. 7) Neikinag is hit hard by Sallys, doing widespread disruption, then the enemy attacks. The base falls with heavy Chinese losses, but all LCUs make it out through an open hexside. Scraps might make it to Chungking, but unfortunately I can't feed them. Ground combat at Neikiang (75,44) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 34787 troops, 224 guns, 433 vehicles, Assault Value = 1363 Defending force 14140 troops, 108 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 465 Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1 Japanese adjusted assault: 1082 Allied adjusted defense: 58 Japanese assault odds: 18 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese forces CAPTURE Neikiang !!! Combat modifiers Defender: leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1171 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 67 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled Allied ground losses: 7940 casualties reported Squads: 297 destroyed, 193 disabled Non Combat: 168 destroyed, 72 disabled Engineers: 41 destroyed, 5 disabled Guns lost 88 (37 destroyed, 51 disabled) Units retreated 6 8) The day ends with some Allied good news. Chittagong AF goes to 7, able to support coming 4Es in large numbers. And Soerbaja Forts make Level 5, a significnat achievement for this key port, AF, and shipyard. Also, it has a bit of Oil. [:)]

BBfanboy -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 8:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catwhoorg RS had oil fired boilers. A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers. Not what I read - when the previous Queen Elizabeth class were constructed to be Uber-BBs [for their time] with much larger displacement, 15" guns [as opposed to the 13.5" on other British BBs], oil fired boilers and steam turbines, the government was appalled at the cost. They felt the builders were taking advantage of the war crisis to gouge the Exchequer! For the follow-on R class, they reverted to reciprocating steam engines and coal, and a smaller displacement. That is why the R class do 21 knots to the QE Class' 24 knots. Not much upgrading was done to the R class between the wars, but it is possible that oil firing was achieved before 1942 though.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/29/2013 10:14:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: catwhoorg RS had oil fired boilers. A joke, but a good one, as they were only the second class of Royal Navy BB not to have coal bunkers. Not what I read - when the previous Queen Elizabeth class were constructed to be Uber-BBs [for their time] with much larger displacement, 15" guns [as opposed to the 13.5" on other British BBs], oil fired boilers and steam turbines, the government was appalled at the cost. They felt the builders were taking advantage of the war crisis to gouge the Exchequer! For the follow-on R class, they reverted to reciprocating steam engines and coal, and a smaller displacement. That is why the R class do 21 knots to the QE Class' 24 knots. Not much upgrading was done to the R class between the wars, but it is possible that oil firing was achieved before 1942 though. Wikipedia, FWIW, says they could use either. It also says: "Royal Sovereign had a relatively quiet career, missing the Battle of Jutland. She took part in convoy duty in the early part of World War II. She was loaned to the USSR in 1944 and renamed Arkhangelsk, escorting Arctic convoys for the remainder of the war. Returned after the war, she was scrapped in 1949 in the UK."

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 12:52:50 PM)
Major damage at start of May 20th turn. Repulse is worse than I feared, RS better. And no fires. POW is fully combat-capable. Amazing. The RN presses on. [image]local://upfiles/31387/785FF43C04EE468F802F5D5C82F379D1.jpg[/image]

Lecivius -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 4:37:56 PM)
Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 7:48:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lecivius Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played. I don't know. These were old ships. They've taken a beating that would leave the IJN BBs aflame. They have great crews when the war starts. I sent the turn back with one more day of trying to get after that Air TF. Could cost me more, but at this piont the strategic coin is time, not ships. I've taken a thrashing in the Bay this week and he's fine, other than a fish in a CA. But if this whole op shows I'll fight with old ships maybe it's worth it in the long run. And the RN carriers are back in Colombo, less Hermes.

JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 8:14:56 PM)
I think your BBs are going to make it unless attacked again. [:)] He should be VERY low on sorties. He should certainly be out of torps by now?

Lecivius -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 8:38:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lecivius Repulse is a lightweight. She sinks pretty easy in every game I have played. I don't know. These were old ships. They've taken a beating that would leave the IJN BBs aflame. They have great crews when the war starts. I have had the opposite effect Night Time Surface Combat, near Port Blair at 46,58, Range 4,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Oite Allied Ships BB Prince of Wales BC Repulse, Shell hits 1, and is sunk Range closes to 5,000 yards... Range closes to 4,000 yards... Range closes to 3,000 yards... Range closes to 2,000 yards... Range closes to 1,000 yards... DD Oite engages xBC Repulse at 1,000 yards Allied Task Force Manages to Escape Task forces break off... Of course, I did loose the whole war in 6 months [sm=00000959.gif]

Encircled -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 10:42:41 PM)
One shot! Is the Oite an X-wing or something?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (5/30/2013 10:52:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister I think your BBs are going to make it unless attacked again. [:)] He should be VERY low on sorties. He should certainly be out of torps by now? I would think so, but he's been rationing them. We're also one or two betas behind, and there was a bug in the one we haven't done yet concerning unlimited torpedo inventory. I think it's just in CVEs in certain cases, but not sure. A lot of the flooding is Minor, and BBs not on fire usually do well fixing some of that while transiting. If he leaves most should make it. Although they're out for a year or so.

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