RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (Full Version)

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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 3:18:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Now that looks like a win right there.


Hope you came back and read the rest. I have yet to figure out how to put in a screenshot and keep typing and have the text below it be where I want. I always post the screenie, then go back and finish in Edit mode. And I don't type well, so the first piece of the post can hang there for half-an-hour.




catwhoorg -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 3:48:22 PM)

I did, nice victory in the N Pacific, shame about the PoW though.




Lokasenna -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 4:12:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Now that looks like a win right there.


Hope you came back and read the rest. I have yet to figure out how to put in a screenshot and keep typing and have the text below it be where I want. I always post the screenie, then go back and finish in Edit mode. And I don't type well, so the first piece of the post can hang there for half-an-hour.


Been lurking a while [;)]. When I post a screenshot and use "Embed picture in post", I've noticed that the "[image]" code gets inserted at the very bottom. I type up my post in its entirety and then go back in edit mode to move the image tag to the place in the post that I want it to appear. Hope that helps.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 4:37:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Now that looks like a win right there.


Hope you came back and read the rest. I have yet to figure out how to put in a screenshot and keep typing and have the text below it be where I want. I always post the screenie, then go back and finish in Edit mode. And I don't type well, so the first piece of the post can hang there for half-an-hour.


Been lurking a while [;)]. When I post a screenshot and use "Embed picture in post", I've noticed that the "[image]" code gets inserted at the very bottom. I type up my post in its entirety and then go back in edit mode to move the image tag to the place in the post that I want it to appear. Hope that helps.


That's better than my way. One cut & paste.




JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 6:39:59 PM)

Shame on the PoW. Its a good ship! [:(] But well done on that NOPAC convoy! [&o]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 7:35:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Shame on the PoW. Its a good ship! [:(] But well done on that NOPAC convoy! [&o]


Thanks. I think he may get increasingly aggressive as time moves on and some early targets still aren't taken. NOPAC is a fine move, but it doesn't have any oil. [:)]




Encircled -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 7:55:02 PM)

How are the defences of Java looking?

You might well be able to hang on to it at this rate




JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 8:08:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Shame on the PoW. Its a good ship! [:(] But well done on that NOPAC convoy! [&o]


Thanks. I think he may get increasingly aggressive as time moves on and some early targets still aren't taken. NOPAC is a fine move, but it doesn't have any oil. [:)]


Well, the allies in full control of NOPAC in say mid 43 must surely be very uncomfortable for the Jap player? [:)] So he might devote some effort too it still. But as you say if he doesn´t take the oil its not going to matter anyway!




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 10:00:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

How are the defences of Java looking?

You might well be able to hang on to it at this rate


Every base but Batavia and Soerbaja is evacuated. I think there's a static CD on the west coast (Tillijap? (sp?) Batavia has Forts 3 +, Soerbaja is higher. Both have a lot of supply. Soerbaja has some navy, but not much. Batavia has harbor defense. I think the mines are all gone. If not Batavia might have a few. The air groups are thick, but they're mostly Dutch, except for fighters which shuttle between Batavia and PBang. LCU-wise Soerbaja has more. I don't have an AV figure in front of me, but maybe 1000ish. Batavia has less. Lots of engineers at both. I'm bringing in a US Army ID, but it's going to PBang. Give me six months and all bets are off.




DOCUP -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 10:31:32 PM)

Sorry about the POW.  But its a good trade for the Kongo.  Nice work in NOPAC.  Your playing on CRs level. Pretty dang good for your first PBEM.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 10:39:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Sorry about the POW.  But its a good trade for the Kongo.  Nice work in NOPAC.  Your playing on CRs level. Pretty dang good for your first PBEM.


CR and I have a very different style for sure. I don't believe in a lot of feints or deception. I'd rather the force used in a feint was with the main effort, firing away. I don't send my carriers off to roam in December 1941. I don't care if Japan invades Oz or India. I like to keep US forces at home more or less, and let the Commonwealth defend itself. I'm sure I spend more time on my subs, even if you can't tell here. CR makes his habits work for him, but they wouldn't work for me. OTOH, I doubt he'd walk out of China on purpose.

PBEM is diffeent than I imagined, in ways good and bad. I wish one of us could play Japan; I'd enjoy a game with CR.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/3/2013 10:42:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Shame on the PoW. Its a good ship! [:(] But well done on that NOPAC convoy! [&o]


Thanks. I think he may get increasingly aggressive as time moves on and some early targets still aren't taken. NOPAC is a fine move, but it doesn't have any oil. [:)]


Well, the allies in full control of NOPAC in say mid 43 must surely be very uncomfortable for the Jap player? [:)] So he might devote some effort too it still. But as you say if he doesn´t take the oil its not going to matter anyway!


True. The Allies on the verge of moving on Sakhalin I. in spring 1943 is a problem for Japan. It's a truism you need more than one axis of advance to keep Japan moving inside its defense perimeter. I like NOPAC because the map is your friend; the north side is walled off by pixels of steel. And it's great sub country. The winter rules work for and against. They just mean you have to think farther ahead than in warm water. And the whole environment favors the side with the best base-building engineers, and those would be Seabees.




DOCUP -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/4/2013 7:53:48 PM)

It is true that you both have different playing style.  But you both seem to be able to see things in the game or your oppoents that I don't see.  So maybe its me.  Yes you and CR in a PBEM would be a fun game.  But you are both die hard AFBs.




Canoerebel -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/4/2013 8:07:08 PM)

There are many folks who I'd love to play, Bullwinkle being high on my list. But it seems that neither of us are going to take the roll of Japan. If Bullwinkle did, I'm sure he'd shine in that roll. If I were to play as Japan, though, the wheels would come off and the Japanese Empire would be in total ruins by some unpropitious date in 1943. I'm not poo-pooing things insincerely. I mean it.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/4/2013 10:16:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

It is true that you both have different playing style.  But you both seem to be able to see things in the game or your oppoents that I don't see.  So maybe its me.  Yes you and CR in a PBEM would be a fun game.  But you are both die hard AFBs.


It's not you. There's only so much you can put in an AAR. My entries are already novels some days. Playing the map you see things evolve, things that don't add up. Most of it doesn't get mentioned. When it finally does it only looks like magic.[:)]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/4/2013 10:19:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There are many folks who I'd love to play, Bullwinkle being high on my list. But it seems that neither of us are going to take the roll of Japan. If Bullwinkle did, I'm sure he'd shine in that roll. If I were to play as Japan, though, the wheels would come off and the Japanese Empire would be in total ruins by some unpropitious date in 1943. I'm not poo-pooing things insincerely. I mean it.


I never get through throwing up when I try to play Japan in an AI game. Alfred has told me that you have to be able to fully immerse yourself in the cultural assumptions to play them well. To be able to really feel in your guts you're fighting for the Emperor and will do literaly anything to not displease him. I can't get there.

The little bit (six months) I did play Japan in an AI GC gave me a lot better understanding of how 1942 looks to them. Also how hard the economic management is, especially the initial set up. You will be a better Allied player if you play Japan at least a little. The great thing about the AI is it doesn't have forum access.




Justus2 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 12:56:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The great thing about the AI is it doesn't have forum access.


Awesome! [:D] That may be the quote of the day!! I shudder to think what it would be posting about my games...




Eambar -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 8:39:12 AM)

Hi Moose - newcomer to the game, latecomer to the AAR...

Some questions if I may:

1. Back during the defence of Singapore, you made some comments about using the motor launches in the defence and flying engineers in to defend. Is it seen as unfair for the Allies to add to the defences of the city?

2. Johnston and the Line Islands - can they be effectively defended or is it best to allow them to be taken and then interdict the re-supply efforts, and take them back later?

3. Submarine CO's - what do you look for in their ratings? I'd like to use my subs aggressively, but is high aggression necessarily the best to have?

Really enjoying the AAR...

Cheers




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 1:39:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The great thing about the AI is it doesn't have forum access.


Awesome! [:D] That may be the quote of the day!! I shudder to think what it would be posting about my games...


You are very welcome. [:)]

I've been playing this thing a long time and reading the forum just as long. I think AE players as a group are very hard on themselves. The type of person attracted to a game like this is abnormal even among wargamers. I know the grognards in the Usenet wargame newsgroup mostly think AE is unplayable and not fun due to the size and complexity, not to mention game duration.

A lot of AE players have trouble when things don't go perfectly, or results seem wrong to them. There have been days in this AAR when I didn't want to have to fess up; I expect there will be more. I'm not sure the exchange ratios in the Bay of B. recently were smart on my part. I can dissemble and justify and fight cognative dissonance, but I'm not sure I didn't mightily screw up. But whatever I did now I deal with the aftermath. That's healthy on some level. I've made a promise to myself that whatever happens in the game I'll report it here even if I'm stupid.

But I also have an AI game going where I'm trying some REALLY outlandish things, and that one's never going to be exposed. Everybody should play the AI some and be kind to their own errors. It's a good way to learn.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 1:46:12 PM)

A note on the game: my opponent will be away from the game for a day or two. He has my last turn, so there's a chance I might get the movie, but he won't be able to do a turn for at least another day.





Canoerebel -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 2:02:48 PM)

Two coincidences, Moose. First, I used "dissemble" in a private message to a forum member yesterday.

Second, I made the same vow when I started playing to keep up my AAR faithfully, even whenever the wheels come off and the Allied fleet is utterly destroyed. This vow was prompted by the realization that it is very hard to face a turn after complete disaster and tempting to let the AAR languish.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 2:12:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie3

Hi Moose - newcomer to the game, latecomer to the AAR...

Some questions if I may:

1. Back during the defence of Singapore, you made some comments about using the motor launches in the defence and flying engineers in to defend. Is it seen as unfair for the Allies to add to the defences of the city?

2. Johnston and the Line Islands - can they be effectively defended or is it best to allow them to be taken and then interdict the re-supply efforts, and take them back later?

3. Submarine CO's - what do you look for in their ratings? I'd like to use my subs aggressively, but is high aggression necessarily the best to have?

Really enjoying the AAR...

Cheers


Thanks for that last. And welcome. Feel free to contribute any time.

This game is a little odd compared to most. We don't have any house rules. None. If you look at the first page of the AAR, as well as dig back in the pages of the Opponents Wanted sub-forum, I did a long treatise on why I wanted to play this way. My opponent's AAR is entitled to display this as well. So top-line nothing either of us does in the game is off-limits or "unfair" or that dreaded term "gamey." Off the table. There has been grousing a couple of times, most recently on night-bombing, but we press on and adjust. Just the night-bombing of Manpower I have done has made me dig into the whole area of strategic bombing trade offs in the game to a degree I never had before. It's not a magic elixir. But it can force adjustments on Japan they might not like. In war you are under no obligation to do ANYTHING the enemy might like.

Your quesitons:

1. Singers is a key objective for the Japanese. Every day it can be held by the Allies means something else Japan would like to be doing isn't getting done. I set out to hold it as long as I could while not sacrificing the defense of Palembang, which has even more strategic value. The MLs at Singers are made in the base's building yards; they poof into the OOB already at Singers. All I tried to do was use them to confuse the targeting routines so Japanese bombers would hit them instead of my supply ships. They are, after all, harbor defense assets. I used them that way. If I had sent them in from elsewhere that would have been perfectly fine too, but I didn't. They lived there.

I never sent in engineers except marching Malaysian engineers south into the city when the war started. This is smart, not unfair. Why leave them up-country to die for nothing? And they will die very quickly. The Allies must consolofate the assets they have as soon as possible else they will be destroyed piecemeal. Again, smart, not unfair. I actually flew some aviaiton support elements OUT of Singers and to Palembang when Singers no longer had any fighters and the air field was closed by daily bombing. You have to feed av support whether it's working or not. I needed them on Sumatra, so out they went.

If you re-read the flow of the siege I think you can see that the keys were three: Forts and the rebuilding of same, supply and the amounts I was able to insert due to IJN being elsewhere, and the lack of desire by Japan to Shock attack and take heavy losses to gain time. I have my own theories as to why Shock attacks were not used, but they weren't, and on several of the tries they would have gotten the job done sooner.

2. Johnson and the Line Islands. No 6000-man stacking limit island can be held, by either side, if the enemy really wants it. The question is how much do they want it? In this game Japan made an immediate play for these islands, as well as threatened Hawaii porper with invasion. I don't know what was up there and won't until the game is over and I read the other AAR. But you can tell reading here how much it discombobulated me. On the one hand Japan invested a lot in taking islands I have back now, at some expense. But it gained them time and made the whole USN stay home for five months. Only the Japanese player can judge if that's worth it to them in their plan. I think the big island of Hawaii was a landing target with an aim to get an LBA base in range of Oahu. If that had happened it would have altered the nature of 1942 for me to an even greater extent. It's my feeling, just a feeling, however, that the events around Hawaii got in the way of attention being paid to the PI and Singers. It remians to be seen how quickly Japan can complete the normal first phase objectives in Asia, such as taking Java and securing strong Oil resources. I'm doing my best to throw tables and chairs in the path of that as the Allies get stronger day by day.

3. For all naval COs I look for a strong Naval stat (except carriers; then it's Air.) A lot of the leader stat mechanics are under the hood and have never been disclosed. Some players, reading ancient runes from long-gone devs, will tell you they know what matters, but they don't.

For subs specifically I look at Naval, but also Aggression. This often means, early especially, that surface gun battles take place with lone targets. Some players like this, some don't take the risk. It might also mean they'll go into shallow water more, harbors more, maybe take shots at escorts or not--I simply don't know how the code works here and don't want to. But for subs I'll often choose the Aggression over even Naval depending on what patrol area I'm sending the boat to. I served in submarines and a lot of these guys are boyhood heroes of mine. So there's a RPG element with subs for me. If I have Mush Morton available he's going in the boat going to the worst possible place. He just is.

If you want to protect your subs and not lose many I'd say go for moderate Aggression stats in your COs. Focus on Naval skill.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 2:17:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Two coincidences, Moose. First, I used "dissemble" in a private message to a forum member yesterday.

Second, I made the same vow when I started playing to keep up my AAR faithfully, even whenever the wheels come off and the Allied fleet is utterly destroyed. This vow was prompted by the realization that it is very hard to face a turn after complete disaster and tempting to let the AAR languish.


Dissemble is a great word. [:)]

I agree with you on the AAR. I'm not sure I will ever do another, and almost surely not a daily. But on this first run the daily element keeps me honest. I haven't missed a day yet. I know some days aren't worth a report, but having that structure forces me to be honest. Even when I'm not sure anybody is reading, and not sure Mike will ever wade through what will be hundreds of pages by then, I do it for me.




Canoerebel -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 2:25:37 PM)

When I began keeping AARs, I did so believing that the game required so much time and effort that it was only worth playing if, years later, I could go back and read the AAR to relive the experience. I've since learned that I'll never do that. I'll read some of my opponent's AAR when the game is over, and I sometimes go back through my AAR to find details. IE, I find that my main purpose in keeping an AAR is to keep track of what's going on (an archive) and simply because it's so enjoyable to write straightforward stuff in comparison to the much harder (to me) effort required in serious writing projects.

As for dissemble, here's my favorite use: "Let love be without dissimulation; abhor that which is evil, cleave to that which is good." Anybody know the source of that quote without having to look it up? :)




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 2:32:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

When I began keeping AARs, I did so believing that the game required so much time and effort that it was only worth playing if, years later, I could go back and read the AAR to relive the experience. I've since learned that I'll never do that. I'll read some of my opponent's AAR when the game is over, and I sometimes go back through my AAR to find details. IE, I find that my main purpose in keeping an AAR is to keep track of what's going on (an archive) and simply because it's so enjoyable to write straightforward stuff in comparison to the much harder (to me) effort required in serious writing projects.

As for dissemble, here's my favorite use: "Let love be without dissimulation; abhor that which is evil, cleave to that which is good." Anybody know the source of that quote without having to look it up? :)


The look-up element is not to be ignored. I put some combat reports in verbatim so I can easily go back and see the enemy OOB at a base, without having to dig through the daily text files in the Archive folder.

On the quote, I'd say the Bible. Any time you see "cleave" it's a good bet. [;)]




JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 6:35:57 PM)

Ha, I had to look up dissemble! [:)]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 7:27:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ha, I had to look up dissemble! [:)]



You are now ready to take the SAT. Congrats! [8D]




Encircled -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 7:29:14 PM)

So did I!

(and English is my first language!)




JocMeister -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 7:50:07 PM)

I had to look up SAT too! [:D]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks (6/5/2013 7:52:06 PM)

May 23, 1942

One Of Those Days

Moving the furniture around, cleaning dirty windows. Low tempo day.

1) The cruiser TF near Umnak follows the fleeing Japanese and finds the AV alone and on fire.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Chuginadak Island at 166,55, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
AV Akitsushima, Shell hits 16, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
CL Helena
DD Rathburne

2) The second cruiser TF from Darwin bombards Lautem for light damage and supply destruction. Probably will base this force at Soerbaja as well.

3) Five Blenheims go at night-time Rangoon at 1000 feet. One lost, three damaged, no hits. Rangoon is the base I most want to rack up, but I can't get any produciton there at all. Kweiyang is hit by 4 Wellingtons for 1 Manpower and 500 Fires.

4) The Chinese approaching Rahaeng are bombed with increasing ferocity each day. It looks like about a brigade defense there at least, with some tanks. For terrain reasons as well as internal damage the Chinese corps are strung out and not in one stack or with the same advance miles if in the same. I plan to go into the hex with the first rather than wait in the jungle for the trailing to catch up.

5) Chungking gets some light sweeps and AF bombing, but the Japanese fury is reserved for the Chinese stack moving back into the city after their victory yesterday. 200+ casualties are taken by these units moving in open country.

6) Sabang bombing nets one Hudson in a unit about to withdraw. More supply degeneration, but the base has over 20,000 and Forts 3. Air forces at PBang and Batavia rest and repair. I'm trying to get a few fighters into the pools and let him sweep open skies. PBang has light CAP though, and a series of battles there cost each side one plane. Oscars coming in at 38,500 to see Cobras at 10,000.

7) A lot of recon at places like Ramree, Baker (where I'm inserting a light garrison of Raiders due to withdraw not too long from now), and Prome. I suspect that the recent events in the Bay make Japan think they have free rein and so will soon raid up the coast to Chittagong or at least Akyab. There are a few TBs at Pt. Blair, but not much else help. But the refugees at Colombo are not that badly hit except for the BBs still trying to get to safety. The cruisers are fixing rapidly, and two carriers are fully capable of air ops. All are fixing system damage while in Readiness; they can sortie immediatley. I also have Arizona there and Oklahoma headed in from EC. I can't get BBs or carriers to Calcutta, but I can to Diamond Harbor. The Bay is not a Japanese lake, yet.




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