RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 10:05:08 AM)

I complained to my opponent Jim Moore about all the time I'm taking going through the entire list of TF's each time I get some moves
from him and he suggested that I look iinto using the Auto-Convoy system to take some of the workload off me. I'm interested in doing
that so I decided to turn on all the major ports to get ready for all the convoys I'm going to make. I've sorted this list on the PORT and
it's in ascending order and I've scrolled down to size 4 and above. I see a lot of ports out of fuel and some out of supplies. I can use
this display to tell me which ports need servicing. I intend to try to service all of them if possible.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B04472AB50C64F928930B557A2F5AB63.gif[/image]



witpqs -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 1:59:17 PM)

I recommend using CS convoys but not the Auto Convoy system.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 2:13:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I recommend using CS convoys but not the Auto Convoy system.

I hear you. I'm guessing the Auto-Convoy system doesn't work all that well? And anyway, I was planning on just CS stuff.



witpqs -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 3:28:10 PM)

Some people like it. My understanding is that various bugs/issues with it have been fixed. But perhaps the big issue is that it won't make your decisions, it will make its own.

I used it at first in WITP, but stopped in favor of the CS convoy system plus occasional manual runs. I've never tried it since (in spite of fixes/improvements) and just don't care to.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 6:36:05 PM)

Hi larry,

Just a few things:

1. If you dedicate a number of TF's to exporting resources to the Home Islands from Fusan it will begin to draw resources from all over Korea, Manchuria and China, not just what is produced at the base. Expand the port there to level 8 as soon as you can to increase the draw and amount of resources the port can handle daily. I don't know if your mod has the stockpile option from previous patches, but if so you can order Fusan to stockpile resources as well.

The trick to Fusan is don't export resources from Keijo, Port Arthur or Shanghai. You want the game engine to draw those resources to Fusan. So if you spend the next month only withdrawing resources from Fusan while expanding the port to it's maximum capacity you'll see Fusan start to have a stockpile over 100k resources on a regular basis.

2. The same applies to Shikuka. It will draw resources from Toyohara if you export exclusively from Shikuka while expanding the port to increase it's capacity to handle more resources. Fuel, oil and resources tend to gravitate to larger bases, so look for ones close to expand even further and have the game engine do the heavy lifting for you rather than trying to run so many TF's.

3. If you dock spare shipping at a port that you want to draw fuel from, the game engine will recognize a need for more fuel at that base and send more fuel overland. It's a great way to draw fuel from Port Arthur to Fusan for export to Japan if you choose to do so for example. Just be careful to leave enough for your mainland HI production.

4. CS convoy's are the way to go. They will save you a ton of micro-management. It's takes some time getting them set up, but after that you can easily tweak them to be as efficient as possible. Always try and keep your TF's under the port loading tonnage and you'll not waste time sitting in port trying to load a convoy that is too large for the capacity of the port, you will lose days or travel time.

5. Capture Singapore! [:-]

Just for example, in my current PBEM and AAR I am only running about 30-40 merchant TF's for fuel/oil/resources for the entire map and half of those are CS convoy's. So I really only have to worry about 20 or so TF's that I load and route manually. That's pretty reasonable and only takes 10-15 minutes per turn.

Don't worry about whether a port hex actually produces what you want to export. Start playing around with some bases and see what happens. It won't happen right away, you have nine months of game engine behavior to change. Stick to it and you'll start seeing fuel and resources gather at those bases you want to export from.

I wouldn't turn off all your naval and merchant shipyards. Since you have though you can start to add ships and manage your HI use much better. Look for small crappy xAKL's and other shipping to turn off that may be of little value to you moving forward. However, you want to be producing every tanker you can as Japan, so I'd make sure you're building all available. Same with naval, look at crappy subs or other vessels you may not need. Decide what you need to produce and go from there. It's all about balancing your needs. As Japan you can't produce everything you want so you have to adapt the economy to your play style. Plane production will be important though, so I wouldn't curtail that too much.

Hope this helps. I understand how you feel about Japan and playing them for the first time. I was in the same boat when I started. It really is crucial to maximize your production and avoid as much waste of fuel and time as possible. There are some really good threads on running Japan so I'd check them out to get tips and pointers. There's a lot of hard won knowledge out there to take advantage of.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 9:58:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
1. If you dedicate a number of TF's to exporting resources to the Home Islands from Fusan it will begin to draw resources from all over Korea, Manchuria and China, not just what is produced at the base. Expand the port there to level 8 as soon as you can to increase the draw and amount of resources the port can handle daily. I don't know if your mod has the stockpile option from previous patches, but if so you can order Fusan to stockpile resources as well.

I have no idea why I didn't think of that. Expand the base and turn on the stockpiling of resources. Got it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
The trick to Fusan is don't export resources from Keijo, Port Arthur or Shanghai. You want the game engine to draw those resources to Fusan. So if you spend the next month only withdrawing resources from Fusan while expanding the port to it's maximum capacity you'll see Fusan start to have a stockpile over 100k resources on a regular basis.

Don't draw resources from anywhere but Fusan. So um.....should I turn OFF the stockpiling of resources at those other places.....
Keijo, Port Arthur, and Shanghai?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
2. The same applies to Shikuka. It will draw resources from Toyohara if you export exclusively from Shikuka while expanding the port to increase it's capacity to handle more resources. Fuel, oil and resources tend to gravitate to larger bases, so look for ones close to expand even further and have the game engine do the heavy lifting for you rather than trying to run so many TF's.

Make the game engine do the heavy lifting by using the close ports and maximize them. Got it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
3. If you dock spare shipping at a port that you want to draw fuel from, the game engine will recognize a need for more fuel at that base and send more fuel overland. It's a great way to draw fuel from Port Arthur to Fusan for export to Japan if you choose to do so for example. Just be careful to leave enough for your mainland HI production.

"Spare shipping" you say. What in the world would "spare shipping" look like. Surface combatants not currently sailing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
4. CS convoy's are the way to go. They will save you a ton of micro-management. It's takes some time getting them set up, but after that you can easily tweak them to be as efficient as possible. Always try and keep your TF's under the port loading tonnage and you'll not waste time sitting in port trying to load a convoy that is too large for the capacity of the port, you will lose days or travel time.

That's part of my problem. I keep sending convoys that can't dock at the port. I'll try to match convoys w/ ports to make a better
overall transfer process.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
5. Capture Singapore!

I attacked yesterday and lost 14K troops. I guess I need more troops. I have several large AV groups in Java that I can free up so
I'll ship them to Singapore just as soon as possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Just for example, in my current PBEM and AAR I am only running about 30-40 merchant TF's for fuel/oil/resources for the entire map and half of those are CS convoy's. So I really only have to worry about 20 or so TF's that I load and route manually. That's pretty reasonable and only takes 10-15 minutes per turn.

I like the sound of that. You've convinced me. I'll let you know how it worked out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Don't worry about whether a port hex actually produces what you want to export. Start playing around with some bases and see what happens. It won't happen right away, you have nine months of game engine behavior to change. Stick to it and you'll start seeing fuel and resources gather at those bases you want to export from.

I'll do it. Hakkodate to Hirosaki sounds like the kind of route you're talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I wouldn't turn off all your naval and merchant shipyards. Since you have though you can start to add ships and manage your HI use much better. Look for small crappy xAKL's and other shipping to turn off that may be of little value to you moving forward. However, you want to be producing every tanker you can as Japan, so I'd make sure you're building all available. Same with naval, look at crappy subs or other vessels you may not need. Decide what you need to produce and go from there. It's all about balancing your needs. As Japan you can't produce everything you want so you have to adapt the economy to your play style. Plane production will be important though, so I wouldn't curtail that too much.

Produce every tanker possible and don't cripple plane production. I've already turned off the production of the Tina since I can't
imagine using those bad boys. Maybe I'm using them wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Hope this helps. I understand how you feel about Japan and playing them for the first time. I was in the same boat when I started. It really is crucial to maximize your production and avoid as much waste of fuel and time as possible. There are some really good threads on running Japan so I'd check them out to get tips and pointers. There's a lot of hard won knowledge out there to take advantage of.

Check out the threads on running Japan for tips and pointers. Good idea.

Hey thanks for all these good ideas. I just got some moves from Jim. I'll get busy and make some changes. I'll post what I'm doing
so you guys can see how it worked out.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 10:19:50 PM)

Here's the latest economic diagnosis Tracker chart thingie. I've got some LI industry failing, again, and so the LI is suffering somewhat.
And I've got the NavY and MerchY turned off so there's some HI savings there.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/A1B4AFDACE574E3286162903732716D9.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 10:36:00 PM)

I've got two separate LI industry's failing in Tokyo and Yokohoma and there's resources heading for Tokyo but it's still several days away.
I've turned on the stockpiling of resources in Tokyo and Yokohoma to maybe prevent this in the future.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/78E103F5395145C2B70F0294AE9F2CF7.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 10:46:46 PM)

Hey you guys: what's the difference between halting a build and stopping a build?

[image]local://upfiles/16287/342C430F00AB4E41BCE2D2259B71FC21.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 10:52:39 PM)

I was trying to get a gauge on how many ships I'm going to need by how fast I'm losing them and here's one month's worth of ship
sinkings of Japanese ships. I can't build them as fast as I'm losing them.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F34D603B49FE448C986580B35D1942B3.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/26/2013 11:07:06 PM)

Here's me turning all the ART units at Singapore to Bombard. I figure that I may as well get some benefit out of losing people.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/61C62676BCD84F8F99D0586A3A2E1CDB.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 5:32:36 AM)

Here's the main striking Air Combat group just to the east of Wake. I was thinking of raiding Midway island and then realized that I
didn't have the fuel to return to Wake from there and now they are sitting out in the water going nowhere.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/200A4177FA7F4F7398E8049DAAA412C9.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 8:30:20 AM)

I thought I might ought to do a survey of my main hubs and get some idea how the pipeline is working out.

This is Tokyo. It's low on fuel and every once in a while the HI and LI industry fail for lack of resources and fuel. I've got some fuel and
resources headed to Tokyo now and they will arrive shortly. There are two convoys of supplies headed for Truk and BubbleDrop.
Tokyo is exceptionally quiet for being in a war, traffic is low, the only flying in the capital is training flights and I'm relying on the minefield
at Yokohoma to keep the Allied subs out of the port of Tokyo. I've just assigned some CM's to lay 100 mines in Yokohoma to refresh the
minefield there to keep it going.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/37887BE86E754347B22CEBC3EA22FC7A.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 8:43:50 AM)

This is Truk. It's low on everything except resources. I've been using Truk to collect the resources being harvested from Ocean Island,
Nauru Island, Christmas Island IO, and various places in the Celebes and the southern Phillippines islands. I'm shipping fuel to Truk
from Balikpapan and all the supplies going through Truk come from Tokyo. Truk is out of oil because that's being handled by other
hubs. Oil is coming from Palembang and Miri and none passes through Truk to speak of.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CF812F204A1C46758CF3EF651CD12B96.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 8:56:54 AM)

This is location code named Bubble Drop. It's one of the busy-er ports with lots of traffic through there constantly. Small-range traffic
from the SRA and so on take their goodies to Bubble Drop and unload it and go back out for more and the longer-ranged transports
load up and take the goodies to Tokyo or Kagoshima. A little bit of oil passes through here but most of the oil is handled by Cam Rahn
Bay.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/79F8E6E4AA7144309252749A616548E2.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 9:05:17 AM)

This is Cam Rahn Bay. As you can see not much passes through there in the way of supplies or resources. Mostly fuel and oil pass
through CRB. Here lately I've had the long range transports go directly from Palembang to Kagoshima to avoid the time intensive
loading and unloading usually taking place but the recent fuel crisis prompted me to do that. I'm getting a handle on the fuel crisis now
so we're going to go back to loading the smaller loads in CRB and have the longer-ranged transports take it from there to Kagoshima.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0E80DC36DC894B57A7993410992481DE.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 9:11:29 AM)

Here's Palembang. It's the fuel and oil capital of the Japanese empire. I loose Palembang and I loose the war I'm guessing.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E592A0C2EB714BAE9C0D8EE5788CEA5B.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 9:23:47 AM)

This is Kagoshima. Note to self: It's almost out of supplies. There's a ton of convoys headed for Kagoshima w/ resources, fuel, and oil
but most of it is still days away. Kagoshima may be the busy-est port I've got right now. As soon as the fuel crisis is over that may
change but right now it's pretty busy. Most of the convoys headed for Kagoshima are coming from the south.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/BCE14FA2CCDA4FA0BC6694F57359405A.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 9:31:31 AM)

Here's the pair of ports probably most important right now.....Hakodate and Hirosaki. Most of the resources I gather at Hakodate and
haul it to Hirosaki. Rinse and repeat. I've got about 8 convoys dedicated to this route. I'm trying to manage the ports so that all the
ships don't show up at one port simultaneously, they can't all dock that way. It's tricky.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E85D02CF10C24FE49932CEC321583115.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/27/2013 9:39:55 AM)

This is Fusan. It's not a hub yet but I think maybe it might be a good hub as soon as I expand the port and airfleld. I have some base
force engineers headed to Fusan from Keijo and they should arrive within a week or so and then the expansion can start. I need to
bump up the supply level there to aid the construction and I need to turn on the resource stockpiling button for Fusan so it'll start
gathering resources. And then I can start hauling resources to Nagasaki. This will probably be up and running in a month or so.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B75AE126409F4DA19A999E22F21F7ED5.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/28/2013 2:56:32 PM)

Here's the latest Tracker Alerts:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F47C8E0E1B8A423795D1F2633D6DA57C.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/28/2013 3:00:31 PM)

Here's the latest Tracker economic diagnosis:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/AF0EE00A2DE949ACB029F39CDA778F72.gif[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/28/2013 3:38:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Hi larry,

Just a few things:

1. If you dedicate a number of TF's to exporting resources to the Home Islands from Fusan it will begin to draw resources from all over Korea, Manchuria and China, not just what is produced at the base. Expand the port there to level 8 as soon as you can to increase the draw and amount of resources the port can handle daily. I don't know if your mod has the stockpile option from previous patches, but if so you can order Fusan to stockpile resources as well.

The trick to Fusan is don't export resources from Keijo, Port Arthur or Shanghai. You want the game engine to draw those resources to Fusan. So if you spend the next month only withdrawing resources from Fusan while expanding the port to it's maximum capacity you'll see Fusan start to have a stockpile over 100k resources on a regular basis.



Glad to see you got it working! Big help for IJ when you do.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 3:29:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Hi larry,
Just a few things:
1. If you dedicate a number of TF's to exporting resources to the Home Islands from Fusan it will begin to draw resources from all over Korea, Manchuria and China, not just what is produced at the base. Expand the port there to level 8 as soon as you can to increase the draw and amount of resources the port can handle daily. I don't know if your mod has the stockpile option from previous patches, but if so you can order Fusan to stockpile resources as well.

The trick to Fusan is don't export resources from Keijo, Port Arthur or Shanghai. You want the game engine to draw those resources to Fusan. So if you spend the next month only withdrawing resources from Fusan while expanding the port to it's maximum capacity you'll see Fusan start to have a stockpile over 100k resources on a regular basis.


Glad to see you got it working! Big help for IJ when you do.

Thanks for posting something Pax dude. I'm wondering if anybody is reading this thing LOL. Um...I haven't gotten it working yet but
I hope to get the engineers going on expanding Fusan and I've already started running convoys there. It's looking good.



Richard III -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 3:49:05 AM)


Been reading it. Went to the start too...thanks for doing this detailed AAR. I'm sure I`ll run into the same issues with the economy in the HI in my PBEM`s.


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Hi larry,
Just a few things:
1. If you dedicate a number of TF's to exporting resources to the Home Islands from Fusan it will begin to draw resources from all over Korea, Manchuria and China, not just what is produced at the base. Expand the port there to level 8 as soon as you can to increase the draw and amount of resources the port can handle daily. I don't know if your mod has the stockpile option from previous patches, but if so you can order Fusan to stockpile resources as well.

The trick to Fusan is don't export resources from Keijo, Port Arthur or Shanghai. You want the game engine to draw those resources to Fusan. So if you spend the next month only withdrawing resources from Fusan while expanding the port to it's maximum capacity you'll see Fusan start to have a stockpile over 100k resources on a regular basis.


Glad to see you got it working! Big help for IJ when you do.

Thanks for posting something Pax dude. I'm wondering if anybody is reading this thing LOL. Um...I haven't gotten it working yet but
I hope to get the engineers going on expanding Fusan and I've already started running convoys there. It's looking good.




larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 4:08:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III
Been reading it. Went to the start too...thanks for doing this detailed AAR. I'm sure I`ll run into the same issues with the economy in the HI in my PBEM`s.

You went to the start? Wow. You must be a die-hard AAR reader. I thought I was the only guy who did that. Thanks heaps.

In the other AAR's I see a lot of combat results and some snide comments but very few hard-core how-to-run-the-jap-side-of-the-game
kind of verbage and I'm kind of new to this, my first PBEM of WITP-AE and my first time at playing the Jap side, and I thought it might be
helpful if I included that kind of information. Somebody else is going to try to play the Jap side one day and I'm hoping this document
might be helpful. Keep in mind that this isn't the stock scenario, this is RA 4.2 and it's SUPPOSED to be hard on the Jap.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 4:59:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

In the other AAR's I see a lot of combat results and some snide comments but very few hard-core how-to-run-the-jap-side-of-the-game
kind of verbage and I'm kind of new to this, my first PBEM of WITP-AE and my first time at playing the Jap side, and I thought it might be
helpful if I included that kind of information.


I'm wrapped too tight for playing Japan [:D]. I much more enjoy the economic and production side of playing Japan then dealing with having my ass handed to me in most combat situations. When I'm not having a coronary, I try and post more on the non-combat side of things. This game frustrates me so much, but I actually enjoy and get lost in the day to day running of Japan. In my opinion, it's the toughest side to play and there's just no margin for error, talk about pressure. My hat's off to you for playing a mod that's even tougher on the dark side.



berto -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 11:59:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I'm wondering if anybody is reading this thing LOL.

I check in every day.

What sets your AARs apart is the abundance of annotated screenshots. A picture is worth a thousand words.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 12:41:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I'm wondering if anybody is reading this thing LOL.

I check in every day.

First of all let me be the first to thank you. I'm glad somebody likes this thing. It sometimes gets to feel too much like work to post
anything else......and then I think of you guys and how you would be missing out if I didn't post it. Second, lemme suggest you
subscribe to this thread. That way you'll get an email whenever somebody posts something. Just a thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
What sets you AARs apart is the abundance of annotated screenshots. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I think so too. I've heard from at least one person that he doesn't know how to post pictures to the forum and I'm thinking of putting
together some kind of tutorial to explaiin it. First a short nap.



catwhoorg -> RE: Fulkerson vs Moore (7/30/2013 1:33:29 PM)

Welcome back to posting Larry.



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