RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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CaptBeefheart -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/16/2017 4:52:48 AM)

Ouch. That'll take a decent amount of ARD time to get back in action.

Cheers,
CC



palioboy2 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/16/2017 2:58:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Its very hard over here to find anyone who thinks WWII beyond Spitfires, Dunkirk and D-Day.

If you are very lucky, they might have heard of the fall of Singapore.

I shudder to think what the knowledge will be like after the last veteran passes away


Probably the way the last survivors of the Boer War or the Crimean war feel about you!



Bif1961 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/16/2017 8:56:32 PM)

Looks like your version of the USS Franklin as it survives and makes a slow painful journey to the west coast for repairs that will take a very long time maybe beyond the end of the war.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 1:21:35 AM)

5/3/43

Burma: The Allies push a beaten-up stack back a hex, destroying 500+ squads. IJA 18th Div. is in bad shape. John probably can't save Rangoon.

Fun House: Legaspi airfield will reach level 9 tomorrow. That will make things much easier, as I can then bring in enough good fighters to provide Uber CAP, giving the option of disbanding the carriers in port when necessary or helpful.



[image]local://upfiles/8143/9D31FC5B77184452B4D81072C01251C7.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 1:38:20 AM)

How good is your recon of his bases?




obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 9:17:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Naskra

Schoolkids are kids. Kids don't fully grasp the adult world. History is the story of adults acting among other adults with adult aspirations and constraints.
So I'm not convinced of the value of trying to teach them something they're not suited to understand. Let them read the story of the past if and when they grow curious about it.


Being a teacher I can tell you they are very interested when you make it relevant to them. [:)]

You're right that kids don't fully grasp the adult world, but education is their preparation to do just that. Anyone only becomes curious about anything when someone else they trust and value makes it seem important and interesting. Luckily in the school where I teach history teachers relate the past to current situations. They're also people of strong and diverse character that students look up to.

Kids will grasp more than you can ever imagine if they're supported, encouraged and given active learning tasks they feel a part of rather than feeling like it's all about (and for) someone else.



Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 11:03:14 AM)

Such teachers are rare here sadly, especially regarding history. I understand that we cant devote 2 hours to battleships but couldnt we at least talk a bit about history and context ? :(



Lecivius -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 1:44:24 PM)

I know your focus is the Japanese Navy. Now that Rangoon appears to be on the cusp of falling, do you plan a serious land war in China, too?



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 2:22:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Such teachers are rare here sadly, especially regarding history. I understand that we cant devote 2 hours to battleships but couldnt we at least talk a bit about history and context ? :(

Both Germany and Britain nearly bankrupted themselves building battleships after 1906. The aim of both was to secure colonies that would improve their trade and wealth, and to do that they had to have sea power, which at the time was thought to require battleships.

So the naval race was on and in the end it brought ruin to both countries when they became embroiled in war to deny the other side a share of world trade.

How much better would it have been to decide trade zones through diplomacy and build cargo ships rather than battleships. That sort of question should get kids thinking about what the nature of human interaction is or should be - take or trade, power or sharing, fear or trust.

EDIT: Thus the need for a broad understanding of history - not just battles but why and what the times were like.



paullus99 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 3:03:13 PM)

You can blame Mahan for that.....his writings were hugely influential on all the major powers, who believed that if they did not have the strongest blue water navy, that they'd put cut out of international trade and colonization.



Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 4:40:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

You can blame Mahan for that.....his writings were hugely influential on all the major powers, who believed that if they did not have the strongest blue water navy, that they'd put cut out of international trade and colonization.


Having only "read" Mahan second-hand (summaries and quotes and the like), I have to ask... did Mahan actually say that, or was it just a battle doctrine? I didn't think it was political in any way, at least not directly. There are implications that lead to real world consequences, of course, such as the naval arms races.



Jellicoe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 4:57:26 PM)

Mahan essentially said that the Royal Navy was able to dominate during the french and napoleonic wars due to its pre-eminent battlefleet. It permitted the movement of mercantile trade, created new trade and allowed for the deployment of the army to take colonies at will. The lack of a decent blue water fleet reduced its opponents to guerre de course and as such ceded control of most of the globe beyond the eurasian land mass to the Royal Navy.

So in essence he said 'be like Nelson and have a big battlefleet if you want to be a global player' anything less and you are a continental bit part.

Kaiser Bill was said to have memorised the Influence of Seapower on History




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 5:02:44 PM)

5/4/44

Fun House: Legaspi airfield to level 9 today and CA Kumano takes a torp near Manila. See map for details.

Burma: The Allies push back the Japanese right flank into open terrain. See second map for details.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/207874777DB848C5A728750BBEA522A7.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 5:09:25 PM)

Burma: Breakthrough on the Japanese right flank.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/FDA9FCA01C78442FB01AFC91809A8C9E.jpg[/image]



Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 6:18:51 PM)

I vote: Rangoon -> Blair -> Victoria Point while you maintain just enough pressure/frontal contact around Moulmein.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 6:52:36 PM)

That requires ships.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 6:54:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
I know your focus is the Japanese Navy. Now that Rangoon appears to be on the cusp of falling, do you plan a serious land war in China, too?


China has always been a long-term objective. I have a generally idea what's going to happen when and where and with what units. But, like most of my plans it is highly dependent on what happens with KB.



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 6:54:47 PM)

If you want to outflank John's new line, march a couple of units down the road that leads SE from Taung Gyi and ends up just below the words "Chiang Mai".
When you reach the end of the road you are on the rail line, his best supply route (if ships are not in use in the area). He will have to respond in some way there, reducing the troops he has somewhere in his line.



Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:26:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That requires ships.


Well, yes it does.


In that case, I second BBF's suggestion. March down the road from Taung Gyi (even if you have to first march over to it), although I would modify it by saying you should enter Chiang Mai from the NE on the dirt road while you also cut the rail line to it via the major road. It's possible he might take that river crossing NE of Chiang Mai first if he sees you coming, in which case I'd just ignore Chiang Mai altogether and march down the rail line. You might be able to keep your forces sufficiently supplied with shipments from Taung Gyi, or if he cuts that route then via air transport. If he cuts the supply route by moving out of Chiang Mai/etc., though... that opens options as presumably you've left a brigade or two behind.

I know you don't have the typical immense ground army here, so maybe that's not an option, but it's what I'd do. Only suggesting this because the forced shock attack to Moulmein is almost always a trap, or at the very least a potential theater-stalling disaster.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:30:50 PM)

When the campaign began on New Years Day, I didn't expect to press to Moulmein, for the very reason you suggest.

But the Japanese army in Burma seems to be in tatters now. I think the Allies can force Moulmein unless John brings in plenty of reinforcements. I want him to do so, so I'll towards Moulmein unless information develops that it's strongly held by fresh Japanese units.

The primary objective in this theater is still to draw enemy units forward. I'll take what I can, but in some ways it's counterproductive to push John backwards right into territory I might want to invade from the other direction. :)



jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:34:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The primary objective in this theater is still to draw enemy units forward. I'll take what I can, but in some ways it's counterproductive to push John backwards right into territory I might want to invade from the other direction. :)


I see your point, but IMHO it is silly to let the Japanese keep a really good airfield (Moulmein) just so you can instead threaten it from a different direction.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:36:38 PM)

Wait, didn't I just explain that the Allies are moving on Moulmein in strength?

[&:]



jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:53:15 PM)

Well, maybe I misread you. You talked about Moulmein but didn't mention any other base by name. I would say in general, to take good airfields and deny them to the enemy is a win-win. But I admit I don't know which bases you're talking about in the "counterproductive" line.



Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 7:56:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

When the campaign began on New Years Day, I didn't expect to press to Moulmein, for the very reason you suggest.

But the Japanese army in Burma seems to be in tatters now. I think the Allies can force Moulmein unless John brings in plenty of reinforcements. I want him to do so, so I'll towards Moulmein unless information develops that it's strongly held by fresh Japanese units.

The primary objective in this theater is still to draw enemy units forward. I'll take what I can, but in some ways it's counterproductive to push John backwards right into territory I might want to invade from the other direction. :)


Has he defended his bases in central Thailand (they have a 20AV garrison requirement for Japan)? Northern Indochina? Given that you're on Luzon now and those airfields seem to be fairly self-sufficient, you could probably use CVs to escort troops and supply across the SCS to Indochina... if you can take the bases via paratroops beforehand, that's huge. Especially if you're cutting rail lines.



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 8:06:01 PM)

Cam Ranh Bay...just a jaunt across the water...and his whole position folds ala WITPQS.[:D]



Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 8:22:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
I know your focus is the Japanese Navy. Now that Rangoon appears to be on the cusp of falling, do you plan a serious land war in China, too?


China has always been a long-term objective. I have a generally idea what's going to happen when and where and with what units. But, like most of my plans it is highly dependent on what happens with KB.



China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 9:13:19 PM)

Many of the things you guys are mentioning are either long-held plans or under consideration.

I'm nearing the point where Fun House is secure enough for Death Star to wander away - even far, far away. Many amphibious options are under review, ranging from simple/short range to complex/long range.

All of these are subject to re-evaluation and adjustment if KB shows up somewhere. Ships are in motion all over the place, awaiting all-clears to proceed.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 9:16:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.


I never lost Chengtu or Chungking (or, for that matter, Kunming, Sian, etc.). That's simply because John took Changsha and then stood down. We both established strong defensive lines. Eventually the Allies will go on the offensive in China. Whether sooner or later, I won't say.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 9:19:51 PM)

5/5/44

Fun House: See map for details.

Burma: See map for details. I think John's position is collapsing. He has to pull out of Rangoon soon or risk having his army isolated. I'm looking for signs that he does or doesn't recognize that...or that he's bringing in stiff reinforcements.

Since the campaigning really started on New Year's Day, he's had five divisions beat up. Of those, 12th is isolated in the jungles north of Lashio without a route of egress. 18th and 33rd are in or close to Rangoon and still getting chewed up in ground or air attacks.

Several mixed brigades and tank regiments have likewise been mauled.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/6BE163D3388B4BDD91972271A4EF8A47.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (2/17/2017 9:31:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.


I never lost Chengtu or Chungking (or, for that matter, Kunming, Sian, etc.). That's simply because John took Changsha and then stood down. We both established strong defensive lines. Eventually the Allies will go on the offensive in China. Whether sooner or later, I won't say.



I apologize for not being up on the particulars of the game. John is in for a world of hurt if you still hold most of China.



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