Pricing (Full Version)

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tgb -> Pricing (4/10/2013 7:15:10 PM)

I'm not one to normally complain about Matrix pricing policies, since obviously they work, but does it really make sense to release a 3-year-old game for $5 more than it was originally?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pricing (4/10/2013 9:34:26 PM)

Hi tgb,

Our intention was not to change the existing price, but to match it. Can you elaborate on where you are seeing a price difference?

Regards,

- Erik



vonRocko -> RE: Pricing (4/10/2013 10:25:13 PM)

Another site has it for $9.95. I got it in a sale for $1.50 last year.



tgb -> RE: Pricing (4/10/2013 10:30:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi tgb,

Our intention was not to change the existing price, but to match it. Can you elaborate on where you are seeing a price difference?

Regards,

- Erik



Hi, Erik:

I don't mean to be busting your chops, but this really does surprise me. The price difference I quoted was from when the game was originally released back in June 2010 (I think). At release it was being sold at for $19.95 for both the digital and physical versions. That was not a sale or pre-order price, by the way, but the list price.

I know of one well-known digital distributor who is selling the game for $9.95 for the base version, and $19.95 for the complete version with all the DLC.

I think you guys really stepped on a land mine with this one.



Rocko911 -> RE: Pricing (4/10/2013 10:44:57 PM)

Erik,
I have verified what they are saying. The game is available in a physical format for almost $15 cheaper and with free shipping at a well know online store. Now I don't mind paying a little extra if you guys make a game better by making it less buggy, better graphics, better user interface, better AI, or just a better gaming experience. If this is the case then you need to tout or show this. If however it is just a retreading of an old game to a new group of loyal customers then I have to say I am disappointed.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pricing (4/10/2013 10:47:34 PM)

It's not a retread - it's the same game, we're just able to make it available here for the first time.

I thought we'd synchronized on price but obviously we've got something wrong. I will check into this tomorrow with the team.

Regards,

- Erik



Wolfe1759 -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 12:03:24 AM)

From my posting over at Grogheads on the same subject

What really irritates me about the Matrix pricing is that they continually rip off us UK customers.

Using PoN as an example the US price is $24.99 (I only know this because of the OP, $ prices are not shown on the Matrix site accessed from here in the UK) the UK price is £21.59 which equates to $33.08. However if I go over to the AGEOD site (which is now the same company) I can buy it for £15.99.

The argument that the older Matrix games are over priced is a good one, even more so when you are being charged an additional 30% for no other apparent reason than being this side of the Atlantic.

Rather than having Matrix sell AGEOD games can we get AGEOD to sell Matrix games here in the UK then we might start getting them at a fair price ?

P.S. and it is currently priced at £7.99 on another site.



Hotschi -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 1:02:48 AM)

Available for Euro 4.99 on another well known online store.



budd -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 1:28:51 AM)





[image]local://upfiles/32191/D09CB775365742E187D3B15D97FBA21F.jpg[/image]



rodney727 -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 1:41:15 AM)

+100. Again. I beg you matrix/slitheine please hire someone with retail expericence. If just only for advice. After all there is only so much college books can teach you. Enough said till the next blunder...
quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**





[image]local://upfiles/32191/D09CB775365742E187D3B15D97FBA21F.jpg[/image]




Hertston -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 2:10:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Another site has it for $9.95. I got it in a sale for $1.50 last year.


Both Steam and Gamersgate practically give this (and all the DLC) away every time there's a sale - and it's not expensive the rest of the time). Ditto Rise of Prussia.

I understand the Matrix approach to pricing the exclusive games, particularly the 'premium' ones, but you really need to revisit pricing policy on games also sold elsewhere particularly if you start selling them sometime after the original release.

I can understand 'supporting' Matrix as well, but I'm sure everyone would rather do that buying new games than over-priced old ones?



IainMcNeil -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 9:40:18 AM)

Hi guys,

nobody has the right to sell the games any more except us. We own them exclusively now. We are the only place it can be legitimately bought. All other sellers have been contacted and asked to remove the games from sale. If we allow others to sell it will be at the same price as us. However it takes time for the hundreds of stores that Paradox licensed it to to be contacted, respond and remove the games. Going forwards you wont be able to get Ageod games anywhere except direct from us so there will be no price discrepancy, but it is not something that we can fix overnight.

It is true that Paradox sold these games at ridiculous prices on Steam and Gamer's gate but that's a thing of the past that will never happen again. These are massive games and justify a sensible price point. We can;t fix the mistakes from the past but we can make sure going forwards it all works.

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that this enormous game is not worth $24.99? It clearly is and just because someone had the crazy idea of selling it for $5 on Steam doesn't change that fact.

I'm sure once you look at the big picture you'll understand the logic and why sensible prices are needed to ensure ongoing development. After all there is a reason that Paradox split from Ageod - their business model just didn't work and was losing money every month. If you want these type of games you need to expect to pay a reasonable price. That's just common sense.

Thanks for you understanding while we move to rationalize the pricing and remove the games from sale on other sites. In the next couple of months everything will be completely unified and we hope to have the games removed from sale everywhere else.




Rocko911 -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 10:39:18 AM)

Ian, you do know that by US UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) Law you cannot get rid of retailers selling legit hard copies they have in their inventory bought during any original agreements.



IainMcNeil -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 10:42:52 AM)

An additional point - that Bundle Pack for PON on Gamersgate has never been passed to us so thanks - we are chasing that up now and as part of the investigation discovered around 15 additional Ageod titles we have rights to that were not reported! As I said it will take some time to piece this all together but we'll get there!



Ranger33 -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 12:37:13 PM)

I can understand paying a premium for wargames, and I would rather those dollars go to Matrix than Steam. That said, there's absolutely no way I'm paying MORE for a game than it originally cost, years after it was released. After looking around at several reviews mentioning the price, the game was definitely $20 at release.



vonRocko -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 1:38:06 PM)

Wow, I'm glad I got it before slitherine did!



undercovergeek -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 2:20:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
Thanks for you understanding


i dont think anyone is 'understanding' - youre simply taking away any other options



mbar -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 3:50:09 PM)

If this release was including all the DLC then I could understand the price point.

But from the store page this looks like just the base game.

Can anyone confirm what is included in the package?



Hertston -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 5:03:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

i dont think anyone is 'understanding' - youre simply taking away any other options


+1

Were PoN a new game it would certainly be 'worth' the asking price, and more, but what's done is done. There are plenty of games across all genres 'worth' far more than you can currently buy them for. Nobody else is taking two-year old plus games and hiking the price to above release level on the grounds that they are 'worth' that!



IainMcNeil -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 5:42:26 PM)

Hi guys,

I understand the frustration and confusion but we're teh good guys :)

The game was available for $20 at Steam when it released as a way to get early attention. The $24.99 price is what Ageod have been charging for many months - they can't remember when it changed to that but it has been for a significant amount of time.

Its part of the Steam model to offer games cheap to get some attention. This was taken to a ridiculous extreme and at one point Pride of Nations was on sale for $1.50. This is clearly unsustainable. The sales did go up but overall the revenue generated from the sale was lower than the normal price as you have to sell 20 times as many units. The game made a huge loss overall and will never break even.

We can't control what happened in the past, but we can put Ageod on a steady footing gong forwards.

These are huge games and to make Ageod a sustainable business we need to charge sensible prices. The reality is that if you want to play these type of games, these are the type of prices that you will need to pay.

We want to make Ageod a sustainable business so you can enjoy these games for years to come!

Thanks for your understanding.




Anguille -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 5:59:57 PM)

So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?



IainMcNeil -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 6:09:30 PM)

You can continue to use them and we will fully support you and any other previous customers who bought from Paradox via their store or the many stores they licensed it to. However we will be removing Ageod games from sale in most if not all of those stores so we can control things and make sure people are not destroying the games by offering it at silly prices. As I said - we are the good guys! :)

This is one of the reasons we need Ageod to be sustainable going forwards.



mbar -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 6:14:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille

So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?


Typically when a game is no longer available for purchase it will not affect your account. It just means it is no longer for sale at the site. I have games that have be removed from the store but I can still download them and play them with no problem. You have Pride of Nations and you will still have it on Impulse when it is not for sale anymore.



Hertston -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 6:15:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille
So what happens now...i have Pride of Nations, the addon (spanish-american war), Rise of Prusia and Revolution under Siege in my Impulse (Gamestop) account...does it mean i have to buy these...again? Will they vanish from my account?


I have PoN and all the DLC on Gamersgate, and there PoN is now just marked as 'old' in my games list. The game page has/has no purchase option depending on which sequence of links you use to get there. As far as I can see you can still buy all the DLC at present, although presumably not for long.

I assume Matrix/Ageod will provide full support to those who have already bought the games elsewhere; there certainly will be very little 'understanding' about if they don't. That said, I don't think any of those mentioned are being worked on any more, so it's presumably just a case of maintaining re-download access.



IainMcNeil -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 6:23:59 PM)

Absolutely - as discussed above Ageod will provide ongoing support to anyone who has Ageod games no matter where they bought them.



Grimnirsson -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 7:01:52 PM)

quote:

I understand the frustration and confusion but we're the good guys :)


And here's why:

quote:

You can continue to use them and we will fully support you and any other previous customers who bought from Paradox via their store or the many stores they licensed it to


:)



Plainian -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 7:51:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?




rodney727 -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 8:12:52 PM)

I too bought this game at the fraction of the cost slitherine is charging now. It humors me to read Iain's justification for the high price of this game based on the fact that now we own the rights so its like them telling us $&@$ you! Remember we are the good guys. Frankly I'm surprised he didn't offer a 30% off discount to by his version.....ring a bell huh?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?






Hotschi -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 8:34:21 PM)

I wasn't aware of this game until it was announced here, but it caught my interest. But I am not prepared to spend more money on anything when I can legally purchase the very same product somewhere else for a fraction of the prize offered here, no matter what issues about past/current rights the involved companies may have. Purchasing at a higher prize would be economically foolish on my part (and hard to explain to my personal secretary of finance - aka wife).

That's got nothing to do with "not wanting to support matrixgames/Slitherine", or with the fact that wargames are rather a niche nowadays in the FPS game world, thus have fewer audience and need higher prizes to break even etc etc etc.

PON is a old game, released June 2011 or something. Iain wrote above that

quote:

The game made a huge loss overall and will never break even


By offering it now at the prize of Euro 20.99 D/L or Euro 28.99 boxed will for sure not make it reach the break even point either. The damage to the company involved has already been done - but this is and never was the fault of the customers.

Written all that, I am going for a compromise. I've just purchased PON at a lower prize somewhere else, and will get the DLC's via AGEOD or matrixgames/Slitherine.



PipFromSlitherine -> RE: Pricing (4/11/2013 8:53:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

UK customers get a direct currency conversion to US customers so the price is £17.99. The Ageod store is migration to our payment system so when this happens all prices will match exactly. UK customers are not getting cheated in any way. It is a pure currency conversion.



Of course we are being cheated. Read the original poster.

Ageod are charging UK gamers £15.99 which includes VAT.
Matrix are charging £17.99 then adding VAT £3.60 to make £21.59.

Even if you look at the dollar value of the game we still lose. The game is $24.99 then that should be £16.23 (before tax) at todays conversion cost. If you are converting $24.99 to £17.99 that means you are giving us £1.39 to the $??? I don't follow the Dollar exchange rate but maybe someone can tell me when it was below £1.40?

Iain can answer more fully I am sure, but:

- your own quote contains Iain's point the store is in transition and that once it is complete the prices will be the same.

- currency conversions via payment processors are not as simple as looking at an instant (generally mid-market) exchange rate.

Cheers

Pip



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