RE: Early Impressions (Full Version)

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mkjhartmann -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:13:18 PM)

Mike,

thanks for the heads up on the right click. I guess I am mousily challenged.

Great product. This will take years to digest.

Mike



At Ease -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:33:14 PM)

As someone who has actually sat at a radar console in the navy i can tell you this is about as close to realism your gonna get.Very close to how it feels without the ship pitching around!!lol



TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:39:17 PM)

I've done a couple tutorials and this game definitely does a great job with the level of control. You get what seems to be a phenomenal sensor modeling system, and the ability to give high-level commands (missions) to subordinate units and actually have them do their job well. What I haven't figured out yet is how to combine selective manual control with that system--trying to give a sub a plotted course, for instance, while it was on a mission resulted in a sub that ignored my commands and just did what it was doing before I hit F3 etc. But I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. I played around with the check box for ignoring plotted courses while attacking, but that didn't help. In the end, I won anyhow, but what I was trying to do was, in the middle of the ASuW mission, have the sub steer a certain route that I figured would be better than its current one. It apparently had other ideas.

And I haven't figured out the rather opaque instructions in the manual on creating custom overlays; I'd love to see a real step by step walkthrough on that!

But, even though this game ain't cheap, so far it seems pretty much as advertised. I'm hoping the user base creates more "traditional" NATO/WP scenarios, too, in the near future. The included scenarios are very nifty looking, but there's a lot more historical and near-future stuff than "classic," say, GIUK gap stuff right now. That's a personal preference, though; I also look forward to trying out some of the really interesting ones using navies you don't usually work with.



Starstruck -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:40:02 PM)

Very nice. Easy install. Running well on an iMac using Windows 7 under Bootcamp. I did try to give it a whirl using Parallels - but it was very, very slow. My congratulations to the entire team!



Jim D Burns -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:55:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat
It apparently had other ideas.


Haven't got the game yet, as I'm still playing Civil War II, but I remember from Harpoon days you could not give orders to subs that were under water. They needed to surface or have an ability to communicate with CiC. Could that be what happened here?

Jim



TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Early Impressions (9/24/2013 11:58:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat
It apparently had other ideas.


Haven't got the game yet, as I'm still playing Civil War II, but I remember from Harpoon days you could not give orders to subs that were under water, they needed to surface or have an ability to communicate with CiC. Could that be what happened here?

Jim


Dunno; I do recall what you're talking about though. I don't think I saw anything like that in the manual, but it's entirely possible. Would explain things nicely, as the sub was pretty deep at the time.



Tomcat84 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:12:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic

Yeah, right. I was thinking to start but 144 page manual and tutorial with cryptic messages doesn't sounds good to justify 80$ risk.


If I may ask: what is your background as in:
- any real life military
- computer (war) gaming wise (flight sims, fleet command?)

What I'm saying is: you obviously have an interest in warfare related stuff or you probably wouldn't have been here in the first place I would think?

I too pity the fool who has zero knowledge of anything military and fires this up.

But just because you haven't played harpoon doesn't mean this is not doable.
I personally did play some harpoon but a long time ago and not very extensively cause certain limitations bothered me.
I do have a strong military history interest and played military related sins/games, mostly flight sims though.

Anyway: I played part of the first tutorial, but then skipped the rest and just started playing. Read some basic manual sections (a lot if it is about scenario building too) and had no issues getting around.

But 80$ is a lot if money so I understand your concern. I would keep looking at what others are writing, maybe some videos if they pop up and then make a smart decision. But I don't think you should write it off yet. Cause if you have an interest in serious military you are quite likely to enjoy this I thin :)



Wiz33 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:20:54 AM)

This is something I posted about the original Harpoon back in 1989 and it still applies here. Don't be afraid to start with some of the larger scenarios. Having more units to command does make it a bit harder to keep track of everything but the scenario also usually last longer so it gives you more room to make some mistakes which you can recover from. Unlike smaller scenario which may be easier to handle but the lost of 1 or 2 important units pretty much means game over. I know many people that was dis-courage by Dawn Patrol in the original Harpoon and almost gave up on the game as being too hard until they tried some of the larger scenarios.



ETF -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:27:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Well I have only played fleet command and it is more on scale with this. Command is much more tactically realistic, as well as detailed. And those two things don't necessarily mean the same thing.


Miss the 3d models though :)



thewood1 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:30:44 AM)

I almost always turned them off. They looked kind of ridiculous and added nothing to realism or tactics. I like 3D when is applied as needed, not as grog porn.



Ranger33 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:44:54 AM)

I've never played Harpoon or anything similar, no background in the military, just a bit of a wargamer. (25 yo for the record).

Just finished the Air Ops tutorial with a Minor Victory, and had a great time looking over all different sensors and aircraft and weapons, there's just a ton of stuff here. The briefing and pop-up text did a great job of explaining how to use the various aircraft and how to setup missions (which is very nifty, lots of flexibility but easy to understand).

To me though, the mission would have worked a bit better if it was broken into bite sized pieces, or the target area was further from the AFB. I followed the instructions for sending my Tomcats up to go Mig hunting, and they did a great job of it, but the shooting began immediately after they launched. By the time I got the popup about launching the attack and support aircraft, and actually got those aircraft on the scene, my Tomcats had already dodged a few dozen vampires. I only lost two aircraft total, but I chalk that up to beginner's luck.

I think now I'll crack open the manual (which looks great on my iPad on the couch..erm..Captain's chair) and really figure out a thing or two! The database is amazing, so much great stuff in there. I highly recommend downloading the images mod, it adds a lot of flavor to things.



22sec -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 12:48:10 AM)

Woohoo! Up and running! Everything looks fresh, but somewhat familiar. Now lets see how this air tutorial goes.



LittleDogmaOne -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 1:09:57 AM)


In 1st tutorial, I decided to re-do this for a second time.

0900 hours, VF-51 Screaming Eagles and VF-111 Sundowners scrambled to designated Red One: MIGCAP
0908 hours, in first 8 minutes, VF-51 screaming Eagle and VF-111 Sundownders successfully downed four Mig 23 ML G and four Mig 21 BIS N with no loss! RED Force SAM defense expended 10 SA2F Guidance Mod missile, and 6 SA3 with no hit. Major shout to VF-51 Screaming Eagles and VF-111 Sundowners!
0920 hour (approximately), VAW-114 Hormel Hog NE-600 departed from NAS Fallon to designated Green One (Support mission) and EAW radar going hot.
0940 hours, VF-37 Bulls, VA-105 Gunslingers and VA 52 Knightriders departed from NAS Fallon to designated B-17 range/Red Three (SEAD mission) and successfully wiped out RED Force AAA/SAM defense. 2 A-6E Intruder from VA-52 Knightriders went down, and CSAR was dispatched
1047 hours, RED Force AAA/SAM/MIGs were wiped out, and decided to halt air operation and let USMC/ARMY have all fun. : )
Score: 700 with two aircraft loss, not bad.

P.S. I couldn't figure how to upload a picture, it kept say "file is too large" [&:]



Emx77 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 1:12:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic

Yeah, right. I was thinking to start but 144 page manual and tutorial with cryptic messages doesn't sounds good to justify 80$ risk.


If I may ask: what is your background as in:
- any real life military
- computer (war) gaming wise (flight sims, fleet command?)

What I'm saying is: you obviously have an interest in warfare related stuff or you probably wouldn't have been here in the first place I would think?


I have much more experience with ground operational games than with air/naval stuff (although, I'm familiar with basics).

quote:

I too pity the fool who has zero knowledge of anything military and fires this up.

But just because you haven't played harpoon doesn't mean this is not doable.
I personally did play some harpoon but a long time ago and not very extensively cause certain limitations bothered me.
I do have a strong military history interest and played military related sins/games, mostly flight sims though.


I will like to learn more about air/naval operations. This game, by most comments, seems to be a good tool for that but I would also like to have appropriate documentation with it (manual, tutorials, guides...).

quote:

Anyway: I played part of the first tutorial, but then skipped the rest and just started playing. Read some basic manual sections (a lot if it is about scenario building too) and had no issues getting around.


That sounds promising.

quote:

But 80$ is a lot if money so I understand your concern. I would keep looking at what others are writing, maybe some videos if they pop up and then make a smart decision. But I don't think you should write it off yet. Cause if you have an interest in serious military you are quite likely to enjoy this I thin :)


I will do just that. In a matter of fact, I've already watched some of youtube tutorials :-). Thank you for your answer.



K 19 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 3:43:53 AM)

Besides the poor zooming and scrolling lag performance, this game is pretty fun so far. I whipped up a quick test mission simulating a Hotel I Soviet sub nuking New Orleans in 1962. Pretty fun watching the 800 megaton thermo-nuclear blast taking everything out within an 8 mile radius.

Also tried out another mission. One of my patrol boats attacked a fishing vessel with surface guns. The exploding fishing boat took out my patrol boat. Guess I was too close. Lol.



Gunner98 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 3:45:06 AM)

Wow - fantastic. First scenario, 2000 pts, 1 Tomcat down (5% hit prob and it hit!!). Used the Mission feature to great effect, similar to Harpoon's set up for the missions but eisier. Had a hard time getting AC to strafe, although one F-14 did fire one burst. Couple of minor things noticed:

- SA-6 had been badly damaged but AGM-45 still fired at it - they looked like they got close but the result is 'missed by 24979' and similar. I suspect that they lost radar lock and self destructed. But the msg is wierd
-the Walleye's are fantastic, if the tgt is destroyed the AC pilot has a chance to fly the bomb into another target, dosn't always work but great stuff
- saw some cyrilic a couple times on missiles
- Would be great to see what mission a group was on. Figured out that if you R-click on a unit and go to missions it will have its current mission checked off, but it would be nice to see the mission in a mouse over or on the unit screen or something.
-Text on the unit status overflows the space provided and you cannot scroll

This is FANTASTIC. [&o][&o][8D]



ParachuteProne -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 4:05:19 AM)

Just getting started but loving the game already.
Haven't figured out how to place a complete(pre-made) installation yet but I guess thats what the manual is for - as a last resort :)



Ranger33 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 4:22:07 AM)

Just finished up all three tutorials. I love the ease of assigning missions and letting your units take care of things, but as I learn the tactics and gear better I look forward to taking more direct control.

My tactical flourish of the day: On the surface warfare tutorial, using my helicopter to fly over the island and spot the enemy ship so that my ship could fire at it without being exposed. Very cool!



$trummer -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 6:43:52 AM)

The learning curve will be steep for me as Sub Command/688i Hunter/Killer back in the day is the closest I have been to this style of game. My biggest asset is that I know the weapons platforms and systems pretty well from many hours designing missions in high-fidelity flight simulations. However, it will take a while to get the game mechanics down, as they are layered and deep. I think Command is going to be fantastic and well worth the effort.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 7:30:22 AM)

As long as ships don't run aground, I'll pick this up. Nothing worse than doing an Indonesia scenario in Harpoon and no matter how much you tweak a formation or routing, a ship or two will run aground. Some sort of order like "automatically stay in waters deep enough for the entire task force" would be nice.

Cheers,
CC



easty75 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 7:42:30 AM)

As a MCM/Mine Warfare rating for 20 years i would be very interested if anyone has dabbled in the mine warfare elements of this game. I have played harpoon/Fleet command and was disappointed with the mcm element. I understand that Mine warfare isn't as flashy as carrier operations but this would be a huge bonus for me in this game. Unfortunately i will be unable to get the game until november as i deploy till late november and don't get paid till after i sail [:(][:(][:(][:(]



NefariousKoel -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 8:12:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98


- SA-6 had been badly damaged but AGM-45 still fired at it - they looked like they got close but the result is 'missed by 24979' and similar. I suspect that they lost radar lock and self destructed. But the msg is wierd


Yeah, I regularly saw my Shrikes saying "missed by 44329m" and such. I just figured that the fire control radars were switched off on the SAMs, to avoid the hit. But the listed miss distance was a bit alarming initially.

quote:


- Would be great to see what mission a group was on. Figured out that if you R-click on a unit and go to missions it will have its current mission checked off, but it would be nice to see the mission in a mouse over or on the unit screen or something.


I've seen a separate Mission Group NTDS icon on the map, when a couple are taking off and therefore close to each other. It seemed to have some info on the mission group it pertained to, but didn't last long. My Air Mission groups weren't forming up.. they just attacked piecemeal by default. So the accompanying group symbol would disappear when they separated. Anyone know if there is a way to get them to form up and fly formation on the way there? I didn't notice a checkbox or anything so I must be missing something on the Mission page or elsewhere.

I'd like to see a shortcut to the specific group's Mission Editor, for any selected aircraft, on the rt-click menu. Maybe even have it check the box for that specific aircraft by default when you visit the page via this method. The reason being that when I wanted to remove an aircraft from a mission and give it an RTB order; I had to select it, memorize that aircraft's callsign, open the Mission Editor, find the Mission the aircraft is in, then find the aircraft callsign and switch it back over to the Available side. Having a rt-click shortcut which goes directly to a unit's mission group, with the selected aircraft already highlighted, would be a great shortcut.



.Sirius -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 8:18:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: At Ease

As someone who has actually sat at a radar console in the navy i can tell you this is about as close to realism your gonna get.Very close to how it feels without the ship pitching around!!lol

hi yep over 30 yrs Royal Navy as a radar, link 11,16,22 and Weapons Spec



Dimitris -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 9:36:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: easty75
As a MCM/Mine Warfare rating for 20 years i would be very interested if anyone has dabbled in the mine warfare elements of this game. I have played harpoon/Fleet command and was disappointed with the mcm element. I understand that Mine warfare isn't as flashy as carrier operations but this would be a huge bonus for me in this game. Unfortunately i will be unable to get the game until november as i deploy till late november and don't get paid till after i sail [:(][:(][:(][:(]


Hello,

Check the series of video presentations we had done on mine warfare a while ago:

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1681
http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1689
http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1716

We took great pains to combine easy manageability & automation (as you likely know mine ops can be excruciatingly tedious if done manually) with high technical accuracy (multiple fuze types, tech generations, chances to "miss" a scan, different shock-absorbtion abilities etc.).

About the only noteworthy "shortcut" we took was that moored mines being swept detonate in-place instead of rising to the surface and being detonated there. And we don't yet support "two boats in parallel towing a common wire" sweep. Just about everything else is there, I think. Mine-specific sonars, sweep cables, towed decoys, hunter & killer UUVs, the works.

You'll probably like it [:)]. And we'll be glad to hear your input on how to make it even better.



Kipper -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 11:46:37 AM)

I am having have bit of turbulence with it -map performance on a gaming rig that can play the most demanding modern games, and sound issues - but overall it is a stunning achievement and the start of a new generation of naval wargaming. They have pulled it off. It is a success. A new era.



thewood1 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 11:50:06 AM)

I am stunned that it has taken 20 years to get a commercial wargame to use basic Windows interfaces. Simple scrolls and standard key commands...OMG.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 3:30:11 PM)

Thank you for all the first impressions, please keep them coming!



Primarchx -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 3:41:13 PM)

I witnessed a lot of work done on pathfinding and station-keeping to keep it as true as possible. I haven't seen a ship go aground yet, though in some very tricky coastal areas where pathfinding is extremely challenged you might see some funky formations. In these circumstances player intercession may be required.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

As long as ships don't run aground, I'll pick this up. Nothing worse than doing an Indonesia scenario in Harpoon and no matter how much you tweak a formation or routing, a ship or two will run aground. Some sort of order like "automatically stay in waters deep enough for the entire task force" would be nice.

Cheers,
CC




snowburn -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 4:55:09 PM)

My first impression of the game after finishing the first tutorial mission:


start menu/control panel/add or remove programs/Harpoon ANW

Thanks Devs, i love the game :)



Awac835 -> RE: Early Impressions (9/25/2013 5:27:05 PM)

First impressions of matrixgames download speed is it is slow :(

But i won't let that detract from the game. Im very excited.



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