RE: T55-56: 2 - 15 July (Full Version)

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loki100 -> RE: T55-56: 2 - 15 July (11/17/2014 7:19:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

If there is a way to do it, and SigUp would agree, I'd look to restore your NM setting from 95 to 100. A 38 base morale is just brutal now.


I'm not sure you can change the settings in a MP game? Its a pity as that 95% proved to be a good choice in the first phase of the game - I think it mitigated the worst impact of the +1 rule and kept the game mobile when its common to see things bog down. Problem is since, its one reason for my too limited winter offensive but the impact now is horrible. Also between October and now, I've not won a single defensive battle (so for some time the +1 was masking the very worst effect on the offense)

Most of my rifle divs were already around 42-43, they are starting to reduce towards 40-41 and already if they pick up any fatigue it is harming their cv. My only solution is to raise all new units as rifle brigades, but that means it take 4-5 turns longer before they represent a fully formed up division rather than if I was raising new divisions directly (roughly 4-5 turns to fill out as a brigade plus 2-3 to then take on the additional equipment and men to make a division), and of course they start losing morale quickly.

I fear that losing the ability to fight south of Voronezh is going to be fatal. Its not that I expected to win that phase but it should have left him with marginal supply well into August. Also I'm fully aware that there are walls of level 3 forts behind every river if, by some chance, I do survive. So must confess at this stage my own morale too has dropped.




Wuffer -> RE: T55-56: 2 - 15 July (11/17/2014 9:04:50 AM)

"So must confess at this stage my own morale too has dropped."
Not really surprising, 95 morale = 100 % mortal

At least, you found the automatically 'I loose'-button :-)

sry, Loki, I hope you understand: don't take it too serious, just a game with crazy settings



loki100 -> RE: T55-56: 2 - 15 July (11/21/2014 8:13:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

"So must confess at this stage my own morale too has dropped."
Not really surprising, 95 morale = 100 % mortal

At least, you found the automatically 'I loose'-button :-)

sry, Loki, I hope you understand: don't take it too serious, just a game with crazy settings


well our goal was to dampen down what we felt were the two worst flaws in the game, the +1 for the Soviets and the permissive logistics (for both sides, but the Germans in 1941).

I think that Soviet morale should, as it did, nosedive in the summer of 1942. Not only realistic but it may stop some of the more obsessive axis play based around a perceived need to win in 1941 ... 1942 should be the critical phase.

Problem is the shifts in the patch have hit our game at a bad phase, but SigUp still has to solve the logistics problem before he can move onto a knock out blow.



loki100 -> T57: 16-22 July (11/21/2014 8:21:56 PM)

T57 16-22 July "Red – Is the fire's common tint"

The fourth week of the German offensive on the Don saw substantial elements of 47 and 5 Armies trapped around Voronezh. After the heavy losses inflicted on Southern Front in previous weeks, this time the blow had fallen on the Stalingrad Front.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/6984/KWEp3g.jpg[/image]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img913/1522/xtvgiv.jpg[/image]
(hasty Soviet ambush near Voronezh)

However, Stavka had not been idle in the previous weeks. Abandoning Tula and pulling back the front by 30 kms had been painful but had freed up substantial mobile reserves. Equally, almost every operable VVS squadron was pulled from reserve or training and thrown into the battle [1]. Given the nature of the German victories it was essential that they were prevented from driving either towards the Volga or to try to cross the Oka to the east of the Moscow defences.

The first step was to see the VVS try to wrest control of the airspace from the Luftwaffe. The result was intense air combat as both sides committed the bulk of their fighters to try and stop ground attacks. By the end of the week, the Germans had lost 130 aircraft and the VVS 410. However, critically, Soviet bombers managed to hit all their targets including the German front line formations and their logistics network [2].

In reward, the 19 BAD of 8 Air Army was awarded Guards status [3]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img905/3329/1aCrFM.jpg[/image]

An ad-hoc force of the fresh tank corps and cavalry corps hit their positions around Dobrinka.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/2258/CV9STV.jpg[/image]

After 4 days of exceptionally heavy fighting elements of 3 German Panzer Corps had been driven back 10-20 kms. Three of their Panzer divisions had borne the brunt of the offensive, 3rd Panzer had lost 81 tanks, 18 Panzer had lost 21 and 14 Panzer 43.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img903/1769/5CtTdz.jpg[/image]
(Soviet cavalry trying to cut off the retreat of 3 Panzer)

For the first time since the Dniepr battles in 1941, Soviet armour had been committed to an offensive in its right rather than as a support arm. However, Soviet tankers had paid a terrible price for this baptism of fire with 580 tanks knocked out. Of these 80% were either T-60s or T-70s.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img661/1722/UKD3i9.jpg[/image]
(T-34 from 41 Army moving past a shattered German AT position)

To place the Germans under even more pressure, the hastily rebuilt Southern Front attacked along the line of the Khoper assisted by Trans Caucasus Front's 60 Army. For the survivors who had escaped the Derkul cauldron, even such limited gains raised morale even as fresh forces filled in to hold the vital Volga valley.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img538/2148/0fez2b.jpg[/image]

OOB and comments

My only realistic goal from now to the end of September is to survive, the regular infantry divisions are going to become increasingly useless (most are around 40-41 as of now). But I think with the Gds, Tank and Cavalry Corps I can do some damage and keep SigUp from pushing too carelessly. If I lose a significant chunk of those in a pocket then I am in real trouble. My basic plan as of now is to produce the equivalent of 5 rifle divisions (10 brigades = 50 admin pts) per turn. That is less than my current losses but if I can keep above an army of 7 million then I think I can pull off some attacks on quiet sectors. Building as brigades takes longer, but has the advantage that the division starts at 50 morale when fully formed.

For the OOB, after two turns with the patch, I'm at 7.76m (so down from just over 8m 3 turns back) and have a manpower reserve of 250,000. I add about 90,000 a turn but lose about 15,000 a turn to attrition. I have lost 370,000 surrendered since 25 June.

One other patch related observation, net German losses are dropping as it looks like his disabled pool reduces by around 2,000 per turn.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/5418/0qmp3D.jpg[/image]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/2296/LJQpRQ.jpg[/image]


[1] In consequence, my truck demand is hugely above my supply for the first time.
[2] I've been going for the FBD formations, not sure if killing them off slows their ability to repair rails or not, but there is something satisfying at seeing such direct losses for the effort.
[3] Learnt this trick from Oshawatt, previously I've spread the tactical bombers out but it is more efficient if they operate from a few bases. The bulk of the damage was done by the Il-2s but the relentless U2 campaign is also paying off.




loki100 -> T58 23-29 July 1942 (11/28/2014 9:56:58 PM)

T58 23-29 July "With hammer, and with blaze"

The fifth week of the German summer offensive saw the loss of Tula, Lipetsk and the destruction of the forces trapped around Voronezh.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img661/3714/ZhHNOF.jpg[/image]
More Soviet POWs taken at Voronezh

With their hold on the Don consolidated, they struck towards Tambov, encircling some elements of 34 and 41 Armies that had advanced around Dobrinka.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img633/6881/Z84Kl2.jpg[/image]

In desperation, Stavka assembled an offensive force based around 55 Army but including elements of the new Tank Armies under the operational control of the Voronezh Front.

In combination almost 150,000 men hit the advanced formations of 46 Panzer Corps opening the pocket.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/4599/6Mkv4I.jpg[/image]

As the Germans retreated, Voronezh Front's 58 and 2 Tank Armies tried to cut them off inflicting further damage [1]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img912/6585/tRG5uC.jpg[/image]

However, these limited gains did little to stabilise the front or to bring the Germans to a halt. 6 Panzer Corps formed the north and east side of the German bulge. Reconnaissance flights suggested that some German armour remained in the Don bend and in support of the German lines facing Moscow and advancing past Tula.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img908/8182/MzXAgv.jpg[/image]
KV1 destroyed in the Dobrinka battles

However, it seemed possible that 2 additional Panzer formations were unaccounted for.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img908/1046/3IDo96.jpg[/image]

In response, Stavka pulled Stalingrad and Bryansk Fronts back to a line along the upper Voronezh to Tambov, Voronezh Front held the gap between the Tsna and Vorona rivers while Southern Front screened the Vorona, upper Khoper and the rail junction at Borisoglebsk. None of these defensive lines was expected to hold and increasingly the few elite and mobile formations were being drawn into the battle leaving Stavka with no effective reserves.

OOB and Discussion

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/8423/xFfqQ3.jpg[/image]

I've not been able to sustain the commitment of the VVS due to lack of supply. Actually I've never before seen what amounts to a global supply shortage on these terms so wonder if its patch related?

Anyway, in response almost all the level bombers and transports are back in the national reserve and I've removed most of the LaGG-3 squadrons. The latter are starting to take heavy losses so if I need to conserve supply they are not the most effective use of resources.

This should, hopefully, improve the supply and truck constraints even if the ability to bomb more or less at will has been useful in the recent turns.

Compared to last turn, my manpower is down 20,000, guns are down 500 and tanks up by 200. For the Germans, their manpower is down 10,000, guns are down by 100 and tanks much the same.

In terms of resources, my manpower is down 30,000 (so a net loss of 50,000 as some move from the pool to on map units), trucks are up by 2,000 (so problem is demand not supply) and armaments down by 17,000.

Critically the Germans are now only 26 VP from an automatic victory.

In the German combat phase I lost 30/30 combats, in mine I won the two I made (but I used mostly Guards, Tank and Cavalry Corps). All this of course adds to the fast worsening morale differential as many of my rifle divisions are in the range 38-41. The few over 45 are recent converts from rifle brigades. I hate to think what the German morale range is with so many relatively easy victories.


[1] one of those weird retreats you sometimes see, they ended up on my side of the river Karachan and formed a much too tempting target to miss out on.



jwolf -> RE: T58 23-29 July 1942 (11/28/2014 10:47:32 PM)

That's starting to look a little desperate. If SigUp can take the Moscow area during the rest of the summer he would be right on the brink of victory. I have to wonder if converting to 1.08 in the midst of the game was a mistake.

BTW I just about fell out of my chair at the pic of the German "POW" near Voronezh. Between that and the pic of the partisan milkmaid I'm not sure which is my favorite now.



loki100 -> RE: T58 23-29 July 1942 (11/29/2014 6:31:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

That's starting to look a little desperate. If SigUp can take the Moscow area during the rest of the summer he would be right on the brink of victory. I have to wonder if converting to 1.08 in the midst of the game was a mistake.

BTW I just about fell out of my chair at the pic of the German "POW" near Voronezh. Between that and the pic of the partisan milkmaid I'm not sure which is my favorite now.


I think the unknown balancing issue is whether logistics at 90% means he has to be too cautious/constrained to take full advantage.

With hindsight it wasn't the brightest idea to switch but if we waited for the late 42 mud season then I would have been the main beneficiary of the shift (well ok the axis would have gained a little from the improved swap rules) so this seemed to be the last chance to share advantages and disadvantages. The real problem was it wrecked my chance to make him fight for a couple of turns in the supply blackspot behind Bolguchar. That was part of the reason why I hadn't bothered to cover the Don crossings in that sector. But really as in the comment above, I'm in a pretty huge hole, but it may just be that SigUp lacks the logistics to take full advantage (remember we are both at 90% in that respect).

The camel pictures came out of some research I was doing into an unsubtantiated claim that the 120 Gds Rifle Division adopted a camel at Stalingrad and it went with the division all the way to Berlin. It apparently (and I assume the poor beast was utterly traumatised) knew to take shelter under artillery fire or air attack. Vasily Grossman makes some reference to it in his newspaper articles covering the Bagration offensive.



loki100 -> T59: 30 July – 5 August 1942 (12/2/2014 9:49:33 PM)

T59: 30 July – 5 August 1942: “The Thunders Gossiped Low”

If the end of July saw the first slackening of the main German offensive, it also saw fighting along the great arc around Moscow from Kalinin to the lower reaches of the Khoper river. For the first time each German push was met by a Soviet response as Stavka committed fresh reserves in an attempt to slow their offensive.

North of Moscow, the German 42 Infantry corps briefly retook Klin, leaving the small town in flames.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img908/2784/NYD51p.jpg[/image]
(Klin after it had changed hands yet again)

However, after the suspension of the last Soviet attack towards the Larna, they had pulled away their Panzer reserves. Taking advantage, 4 Shock Army struck the unwary 206 Infantry division near Bultschewo. After several major air raids, 150,000 men backed by over 2000 guns adeptly broke through the multiple German trench lines. Lacking any reserves, the Germans fell back.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img538/6160/YrXL2r.jpg[/image]

South of Tula, the German 13 Infantry Corps forced the line of the Don creating a dangerous bridgehead in the heart of Leningrad Front's defensive lines. At the same time their 59 Infantry Corps pushed back elements of the Bryansk Front between the Voronezh and Don rivers.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/8444/5ZAqB6.jpg[/image]

Of concern, Soviet reconnaissance indicated a substantial armoured build up on the Mecha, indicating that these attacks were probably the preliminary stage of a new major offensive.

However, for the first time their infantry moved beyond their entrenchments and were exposed to a surprise attack. Leningrad Front struck with ferocity. 1 and 2 Shock Armies were drawn from reserve, reinforced by the tanks of 41 Army, hit the German bridgeheads. By the time Stavka called off the offensive, the east bank of the Don was back in Soviet hands and elements of 7, 13 and 20 Infantry Corps had been badly mauled.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/1048/VpAajG.jpg[/image]

Supporting attacks by Western Front to the north and Bryansk Front to the south also drove in over-confident German infantry.

Finally, at Tambov, the Germans attacked again and 14, 46 and 48 Panzer re-established the pocket and encircled fresh Soviet units.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/293/ov7WmH.jpg[/image]

This time the Voronezh Front shifted tactics. Unable to break the pocket directly, the counter-attack fell on German units around Rshaksa. The opening attack was launched by 9 Army to the south and had the effect of drawing off the only German reserves.

With that 1 and 3 Tank and the infantry of 46 Army first overran 46 Panzer Corps and then the now exposed infantry of 29 and 44 Corps.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img661/5592/n4ODaT.jpg[/image]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/6010/XqTpL8.jpg[/image]
(T-34s in action near Rtshaksa)

Having delivered a substantial blow, the bulk of the Soviet forces disengaged and fell back behind the Vorona.

However, Stavka did not believe that one week of successful localised counter-attacks meant the Germans had been stalled. Orders were sent to Leningrad, Stalingrad and Bryansk Fronts to fall back as there was a fear that the German armour to the west of Leningrad Front and around Tambov would try to pull off a major pocket.

Beyond mere tactical adjustments, Stavka started to send out orders for a major redeployment as the Summer battles reached crisis point. Held back, for the moment, was any reintroduction of the no retreat orders. Equally, a plan was slowly being developed that might catch the Germans badly off balance as all their armour was increasingly committed to the depths of Central Russia.

OOB

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/3391/TI0ni2.jpg[/image]

In terms of quantity my army is holding up despite the losses since this offensive started. The problem of course is partly that the quality is declining and that I am having to use my small number of elite formations if I want to attack (as in this turn). So they are picking up fatigue and slowly falling into pockets in turn as the Germans press on.

In terms of Gds formations, after those battles I have 6 infantry corps but have lost 2 of my Gds Cavalry Corps (and a rifle corp) around Tambov. I have Il-2 squadrons reaching Gds status on a regular basis now.



jwolf -> RE: T59: 30 July – 5 August 1942 (12/3/2014 3:02:29 AM)

I have to admit I'm more optimistic about your situation after that move. Those attacks hurt the Germans a lot. The key is if you can prevent them from forming a really significant pocket, and on that count I just don't know. Great writeup as usual.

Judging from the picture of Klin, it really wasn't worth anyone's bother trying to take it.



swkuh -> RE: T55-56: 2 - 15 July (12/3/2014 10:55:18 AM)

As said to SigUp, great AAR... you guys might write a book!

Thanks your efforts.



loki100 -> RE: T59: 30 July – 5 August 1942 (12/3/2014 4:09:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

I have to admit I'm more optimistic about your situation after that move. Those attacks hurt the Germans a lot. The key is if you can prevent them from forming a really significant pocket, and on that count I just don't know. Great writeup as usual.

Judging from the picture of Klin, it really wasn't worth anyone's bother trying to take it.


As I explained to a rather disgruntled SigUp that was a one off set of attacks especially by 1,2 and 3 shock armies. They are all relatively powerful but as divisions couldn't even risk attacking his infantry in level 2/3 forts behind rivers. So him putting two stacks over the Don with no obvious mobile reserve to help them created a huge temptation to give them their first combats since April.

My goal now, and the next sort of interim post may make it a bit clearer, is to keep as much of the army intact as I can. I'll lose more but I'd like to get to the end of August without any more 2-3 Army pockets if I can help it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rrbill

As said to SigUp, great AAR... you guys might write a book!

Thanks your efforts.


thank you, glad its enjoyable. Must confess I'm looking forward to being able to read his thread as it'll be fascinating to see his logic/reactions to how the game is unfolding



loki100 -> Overview June-August 1942 (12/3/2014 4:12:25 PM)

June – August 1942 review

Since the next turn will effectively complete the first phase of the fighting triggered by the German summer offensive (in effect, apart from at Stalingrad, I am no longer defending the line of the Don), thought this might be a good spot to offer some background data and to raise a few issues that may (or may not) be patch related.

OOB

I'll not repeat the usual OOB data (losses, strength of respective armies, Soviet Front OOB) but present some background information. So the first table is my OOB on 24 June and 13 August respectively.

I've picked these dates as 24 June was the turn before the German offensive (as well as reflecting one year of the war) and the second is where we are up to.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img537/2480/UVYRxe.jpg[/image]

The top section shows the on-map combat units.

Probably the big issue there is I have lost (net) 40 rifle divisions (30 brigades have been converted and I have 25 divisions less). Its actually a lot worse as I think I have raised another 16-20 rifle brigades to replace losses. The average strength per brigade is up as I am refitting them to 100% so as to ease the transition when converted to a division (before I was leaving them around 60% when all they were doing was maintaining a defensive line).

Average morale of the rifle divisions looks ok but that masks a huge variance. A lot are now around 40 and a significant number are 46-48 (mostly the recent conversions).

Overall the manpower in the infantry formations has dropped from 5.3 million in June to 4.9 million.

Tank Brigades are down by 12, mostly converts to rebuild lost Tank Corps. I think I have enough for a final round of building Tank Corps (probably in 1943) and then I'll start to disband what is left. I've lost quite a lot of Cavalry Corps (including both that had converted to Guards), I'll make sure the few scheduled reinforcements can be converted to Corps but I'll let these decline in numbers from now on.

Losses

Although the recent fighting has been grim, I do seem to have handed out some damage:


[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/3223/QjmxhE.jpg[/image]

In this table the 'ratio' is axis/soviet so if the ratio increases it means the Germans are losing more (relatively) to me than before. The only area where I seem to be making some gains is in terms of losses of armour which is closer to 1-3 compared to the 1-4 of the first year of the war. The main number of course is the 564,000 prisoners I've lost (which fits with the decline in infantry numbers above).

Industry

A growing worry is my industry. Here I am a bit unsure and wonder if some of this is related to changes in the patch:

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img909/687/wwKXoR.jpg[/image]

The supply change seems strange. I had 230k (against need of 370k) in June. I have 270k (against need of 350k) in August, but it seems that my units are not receiving supply and it is staying in the stores. Now I have been making excessive use of the rail net as I react to SigUp's offensive so that maybe one reason?

Vehicles have gone from slightly more than needed in June to a small deficit now. Given the heavy use I have made of the VVS and the amount of moving I've done this is not surprising (plus the extra Tank Corps).

Airwar

Finally bit is some data on the enduring mystery of the air war. The first table simply shows the summary information that is available:

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img538/8444/s0c5d7.jpg[/image]

The patch, and possibly the evolution of air units, has made a difference.

The Germans have lost more fighters (and they must be mostly Germans as I only briefly tangled with the Italian airforce while looking for FBD units to bomb). Also their losses of tac bombers has jumped by 50% in two months, indicating that the Ju-87s are becoming very vulnerable. If so this is too early, as they remained effective up to about Kursk after which the VVS had too much aerial domination for the Ju-87s to cope.

If we look at the source of losses, its clear that air combat is becoming more costly (I can't claim that I am winning) with them losing 360 for 1500 of mine. The new flak routine is clearly working, as my losses have gone up a lot (and I have been bombing both airbases and units).

What I'm not sure about is why the airwar has changed with overall losses in a ratio of 3.2:1 compared to 5:1 of the first year. Some of this might be unit type and for me the La-5 and Yak 7B are definite improvements.

Have to confess I still find the air war confusing – too much control in many respects and a very opaque combat engine – but this looks at changes by some of the more common aircraft types in operation:

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img537/2446/dV0dDb.jpg[/image]

This table looks at losses by airframe type. The worsening position for the German fighters can be shown in the mounting losses for the Bf-109s.

For the Soviet air units, I've used the commander report data to also show the relative numbers and kills (air or ground) by air type.

This is a bit misleading as any unit going to the national reserve that turn is not shown and since units can change planes (even role) some of the kill data is misleading. I'd suspect most of the impressive ground kills for the Yak-1s can be traced back to squadrons that were originally using Il-2s. Equally I've been converting some LaGG-3s (to La 5) and Il-4s (to Pe-2s) so those lines need to be read with some caution.

For the main fighters, the LaGG-3 is now obsolete and almost all in the reserve. The Yak-1s have taken fearful losses (600 out of the 1500 deployed in June have been lost) but are still causing losses.

The La-5/Yak-7 have lost 340 between them and killed 102. I think this is indicative of one reason for the slowly mounting German air losses?

Of the rest, if you are German, and you see a Sturmovik, it may be a good idea to duck as they have managed 730 ground kills in 2 months. In this respect the U2s have outperformed the Pe-2s (120 vs 87) but I think the level bombers do more damage in terms of disruption results.

The U2s also specialise in shooting down Bf-110s. North of Moscow there are several squadrons of Bf-110s on night missions and the two aircraft types have had a lot of encounters since the late winter battles on that sector.

Overall I'm not sure if the shift in the air war is patch related or the natural progression of the game, or, simply, that I have tried to fill the skies with the VVS in an attempt to slow the German offensive.



morvael -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/3/2014 4:25:51 PM)

Lovely set of stats, unfortunately I have no time to respond to it, until tomorrow. When I'll have the chance, I will.



Gabriel B. -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/5/2014 5:58:31 AM)

you actually have more rifle divisions than historical numbers .

401 vs 338

but less brigades
71 vs 116,
and corps .

7 vs 11.




morvael -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/5/2014 6:21:11 AM)

OOB - you still have a formidable force, despite the encirclement disaster. Infantry and cavalry was hit the most, but the "technical" forces are ok.
Losses - it would be good to know how many of the Guns/AFV/SP&AC losses are due to encirclement. Discounting that, I think your ratios would improve in all those classes.
Industry - HI multiplier was changed, so there will be less supplies now. But the coming 1.08.01 will fix supply and fuel (and truck) needs of infantry and airbase (with level bombers and transports) units, which will free a significant number of vehicles from units to the pool.
Airwar - it's important to discount the losses of turn 1 in the airwar as it affects the ratios for a long time. However I see the patch (and equipment improvements on the Soviet side) work as designed. German flak was improved (although no doubt you bomb him more often than in 1941) and German recon losses went down due to fixing escorts (although he may use them less often than in 1941). Most likely all this is an effect of natural progression, but who knows how strong the Luftwaffe will be in games started under 1.08 which will prevent excessive bleeding of the German airforce in 1941? The biggest effects of the patch will be seen when you'll send 400-plane strong airstrikes on his airbases. Reduced limits on intercepts and better flak will mean your units will sometimes (when your fighter cover will fail its die rolls) suffer huge casualtes even in 1945. Luftwaffe cannot gain control of the skies (unless it really concentrates in one point) and should be only used for ground support missions, but at least it will be not erased by constant airstrikes on the airbases.

You survived the transition to 1.08, from now on your situation can only improve :)



loki100 -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/5/2014 3:03:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.

you actually have more rifle divisions than historical numbers .

401 vs 338

but less brigades
71 vs 116,
and corps .

7 vs 11.



quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

OOB - you still have a formidable force, despite the encirclement disaster. Infantry and cavalry was hit the most, but the "technical" forces are ok.
Losses - it would be good to know how many of the Guns/AFV/SP&AC losses are due to encirclement. Discounting that, I think your ratios would improve in all those classes.
Industry - HI multiplier was changed, so there will be less supplies now. But the coming 1.08.01 will fix supply and fuel (and truck) needs of infantry and airbase (with level bombers and transports) units, which will free a significant number of vehicles from units to the pool.
Airwar - it's important to discount the losses of turn 1 in the airwar as it affects the ratios for a long time. However I see the patch (and equipment improvements on the Soviet side) work as designed. German flak was improved (although no doubt you bomb him more often than in 1941) and German recon losses went down due to fixing escorts (although he may use them less often than in 1941). Most likely all this is an effect of natural progression, but who knows how strong the Luftwaffe will be in games started under 1.08 which will prevent excessive bleeding of the German airforce in 1941? The biggest effects of the patch will be seen when you'll send 400-plane strong airstrikes on his airbases. Reduced limits on intercepts and better flak will mean your units will sometimes (when your fighter cover will fail its die rolls) suffer huge casualtes even in 1945. Luftwaffe cannot gain control of the skies (unless it really concentrates in one point) and should be only used for ground support missions, but at least it will be not erased by constant airstrikes on the airbases.

You survived the transition to 1.08, from now on your situation can only improve :)


Interesting you've both made the same observation about army size. Despite the hammering it was only the opening pocket that drove my numbers down (from 8m to 7.7m) and its roughly stayed there ever since. I did build a lot of rifle brigades over winter and as we entered the spring mud lull I refitted a lot of them up to 100% TOE (so they would build out to divisions quite quickly) and I've been able to keep the notional strength of my front line armies up.

I don't really want an army much over 8m at the moment in any case due to supply and truck constraints.

We've just had a few turns of a lot of manly staring at each other across a lot of vacant terrain. I can't really fight till October (the morale of my rifle divisions is not something you really want to see) but I can try and absorb SigUp's last blows in a manner that leaves me a decent sized army for the winter. So think I can avoid a technical knock out blow in 1942 now, even if I am a long way from Berlin - its more like a game of Revolution Under Siege with the major cities of the central Volga dominating the map.

I think most of the jump in my posted artillery losses are due to losses in pockets. All those surrendered rifle divisions would have taken a lot of artillery with them.

Tanks I think are mainly combat. I tend to set the arm/mot divisions at 50% TOE in 1941 so once they have fought they never recover and go to the deep rear. From November-June all that was engaged was individual brigades, this is the first time in a long time the Red Army has engaged in massed armoured warfare. The T-60s/70s drop like flies, so that makes the headline number look far worse.

If we take out turn 1 then I think the first year saw a loss ratio of around 4-1. Some periods were worse, esp when SigUp was sending in masses of fighters around Moscow to gain air control and bomb my bases. I've seen one disastrous airfield raid when something like 70 Pe-2s were reduced to around 30 and the fighters indeed did not contribute (since I use the manual routine I know I ordered them in).



randallw -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/5/2014 10:13:31 PM)

The biggest worry i'd have on that OOB list is the 42 avg morale for the rifle divisions. It can be a long slogging road for the transition of turning a cadre division into something of a victorious beast.



gingerbread -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/6/2014 10:14:20 AM)

Really nice to see that you implemented the Training Army concept and managed to get it to work. With the 1.08 morale changes to 40 during the '42 season, I think I'll adjust the April target for number of Rifle Brigades up.




loki100 -> RE: Overview June-August 1942 (12/6/2014 10:50:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

The biggest worry i'd have on that OOB list is the 42 avg morale for the rifle divisions. It can be a long slogging road for the transition of turning a cadre division into something of a victorious beast.


The reality is both better and worse than the average implies. Its a pity its not possible to export the CR files (well probably good or this AAR would be full of statistical analyses [8D]), but I in effect have classic split distribution with one group below 43 (and for those the mean is about 40) and one group above (with a mean around 46-7).

I think what I'll do (assuming the next 5-6 turns don't lead to disaster) is to let things recover a bit over the autumn (my NM goes back to 45, so say the 42-43 I've had all game) in October but up to 50 (so say 47-48) in Jan. At that stage, I think I need to invest in rotating the more useful armies out of the line to build up their NM, so any winter offensive will be slowed in the short term but I think that is a worthwhile investment for the longer term.

My Combined Arms armies can be roughly be split into 6 types and that may give a logic to how I prioritise their recovery:

Elite - 55A, 4SA, both built around a core of Gds Rifle Corps, each can produce about 30 attack CV from a single hex (this is my firebrigade and battering ram), they share the same Front command so can take all but the best defended hex;
Pretty Good - 1SA; 3SA; 46A; 52A; 58A. No Gds but for different reasons almost all their component divisions are well above the average - either they were the Siberian units that arrive in late 41, won a lot of battles in the winter or are drawn from recent conversions;
Bulk - really the rest of NW Front, all of Kalinin and Western Fronts and bits of Stalingrad, Byransk and SE Fronts. Not great but have some victories and so on.
Ugh - Volkhov front, some other formations, bits of the two Caucasus Fronts, these have a lot of losses (esp the VF formations), few wins and few redeeming features.

To that there are 2 types of formations that are unusual but organised into Combined Arms forces:

Cav-Mech - 41 and 50A, both have > 50% Tank Corps most of the rest as Cav Corps. I did this to get some tank corps into the line before the Tank Armies were ready and also hope that these commands may get to Gds status in 1943 given their composition;
Cav - 6, 34, 51A - really a legacy of the winter battles when I concentrated the Cav Corps plus now with some Tank Corps (so weaker version of the above).

Taking my morale recovery logic, in effect I have a hierachy based on starting with the pretty good lot and working my way down the list. Clearly operational need and opportunity will play a role in this choice too.


quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Really nice to see that you implemented the Training Army concept and managed to get it to work. With the 1.08 morale changes to 40 during the '42 season, I think I'll adjust the April target for number of Rifle Brigades up.




I think that approach is what has just about saved me. I must have built about 40 in the winter, it seemed a huge divesion of admin pts etc at that stage but it has paid off. Pushing their TOE as a brigade to 100% is another apparent diversion but means they fill out as a useable rifle division in a turn. That you can then commit them with their morale in the 49-50 range has made a huge difference.

In any future games, I'd build more, I don't think I am going to be the only person to have had (or be having) a genuinely scary 1942 with the new rules.



loki100 -> T60: 6-12 August (12/7/2014 12:12:13 PM)

T60: 6-12 August - "Let Go. Then. Overcome"

The Germans quickly recovered from their set backs at the start of August. Tambov itself fell to their renewed offensive and the Soviet pocket was eliminated at Mordovo.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/7990/IWdSLs.jpg[/image]

At the same time, on the upper Don, 2 fresh Panzer corps managed to regain the Eastern bank and create a small pocket.

Elsewhere, there was little or no fighting, except along the lower Khoper, as the Germans rested their armour after the recent battles.

With the Don now breached and Tambov lost the scope for a massive encirclement of Stalingrad and Bryansk Fronts existed if the Soviets tried to hold their current defensive positions.

As a result Stavka ordered a major redeployment of the Soviet forces defending the Oka-Volga region. The Oka now loomed large in Soviet planning. As a defensive barrier it offered the opportunity to stall any German offensive and also helped to secure the flanks against major encirclements. However if the Red Army simply withdrew behind it then the Germans could screen the Soviets with relatively minimal forces, allowing them to concentrate on the Volga.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/2812/IX7MPS.jpg[/image]
(Soviet rearguard action at Tambov)

With this in mind, Stavka split the forces south of Moscow into two major groupings. The first consisting of Western, Leningrad and Stalingrad Fronts was ordered to hold Ryazan at all costs and Stalingrad Front was to keep a series of bridgeheads on the southern bank of the Oka.

The second group consisting of Bryansk, Voronezh and Southeastern Fronts fell back towards Penza and Saratov. Their first goal was to defend the line of the Volga but also to force the Germans to over-extend and stretch their forces. The two Caucasus Fronts were well dug around the Don bend at Stalingrad and substantial formations still guarded key locations in the Caucasus itself. These acted both as a defensive force and a strategic reserve for the southern most sector of the long front.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/864/50frRl.jpg[/image]
(elements of Bryansk redeploying in the north)

The real risk in this deployment is it effectively split the Red Army into two portions. In theory either could be defeated in detail, in practice it was hoped that terrain and strength of resistance would prevent such a concentration by the Germans.

Towns and rail junctions that had been made famous in the Civil War again appeared in Stavka and Front directives [1]. The scale of this movement was such that hopefully it would take the Germans several weeks before they could exert substantial pressure again. If they moved cautiously, the Soviets would have time to improve on the existing defensive network, if they moved quickly they would be vulnerable to supply problems as well as Soviet counter-attacks.

[image]local://upfiles/43256/24EA53C9B6024CF2BD6C18266386E7A1.jpg[/image]

The implication for September was clear in the Stavka directives. 'Once this redeployment is complete, there is no more scope for retreat. Russia is vast, but the enemy has advanced to the edge of the Volga'. Implicit was a plan for a series of major counter-attacks, as Stavka gathered a small reserve (4 TA, 4 SA, 55A) and redeployed the Fronts so that those with the bulk of the mobile assets were in favourable terrain [2].

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img538/3978/x0B6Sx.jpg[/image]


[1] – The Volga, especially around Saratov-Penza, had been the front line between the nascent Soviet republic and Admiral Kolchak's Siberian White forces. Anyone with any interest in this era, and to fight over a very different region of Russia, really should try out AGEOD's Revolution under Siege. Its your chance to see Buddeny as a dashing young cavalry officer, even Voroshilov has his useful aspects, rather than as part of an aged group of commanders you really do not want anywhere near a tank in 1942.
[2] – Pulling this off is going to be tricky as I need to swap over Stalingrad and Bryansk Fronts as well as ensure each can defend a vital sector even as they switch around.



loki100 -> T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/8/2014 10:44:57 PM)

T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 "Ni shagu nazad"[1]

For two weeks an unexpected lull fell over central Russia. The massive Soviet redeployment seemed to confuse the Germans, or, more plausibly, came at a moment when their assault troops were exhausted. The result was that the complex redeployment of Bryansk and Stalingrad Fronts went ahead unhindered and Stavka was able to pull the equivalent of 5 extra armies into reserve.

By Mid-August, it was clear the Germans had decided to eliminate the Soviet positions at Ryazan before their next step.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/9744/iTiyrB.jpg[/image]
(German build up – don't think there was much ambiguity or attempt to hide what they were planning)

Despite having spent months building up the defensive belts in this sector it seemed clear that the Germans had overwhelming force and that any attempt at a sustained defense would simply see more men lost.

With that in mind Stavka allowed Leningrad and Western Fronts to weaken their front lines and pull back the bulk of their armies towards the Oka.

By the end of August, this decision was fully vindicated as a massive German infantry and Panzer attack swept over the Soviet positions.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img537/4104/ymEWTn.jpg[/image]
(ummh, that was a real surprise)

It was estimated that components of 5 German armies consisting of 6 Panzer Corps and at least 9 Infantry Corps had taken part in the operation. However, the critical city of Ryazan remained in Soviet hands as 1 Shock Army prepared for its defence to the last man. Equally, the great bulk of both Fronts retreated over the Oka in good order into long prepared positions and their losses in the recent battles were quickly made up with reinforcements drawn from reserve.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img537/107/77ug0f.jpg[/image]

Here, above all, the meaning of the recent order of the day was made clear at every level of the Red Army. The Oka was the last barrier before Moscow, there was no more space to retreat. If the Germans managed to cross they must be thrown back. If they managed to create a bridgehead then the river bank to their flanks was to be held. Leningrad and Western Fronts were committed to a final defense of the southern approach to Moscow at all costs as order number 227 was read out to all ranks.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/7568/O5OJB3.jpg[/image]
(24 Army defensive lines on the Pronya)

However, Stavka was not content to remain on the defensive. The retreat to the Volga had allowed the creation of a new strategic reserve. With this in mind, 4 Shock, 4 Tank and 55 Armies had secretly deployed in the woods behind Vyshny Volochek. Even as the Germans tore apart the Soviet lines on the Pronya, the Red Army embarked on its most ambitious operation of the war.

The German 50 Corps was well dug in and protected the vital rail junction of Bologoe [2], but air reconnaissance confirmed there were no reserves and that German fighter cover was deployed further south to cover any renewal of the Larna offensives.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img911/4116/L8pclA.jpg[/image]

With this in mind, even as 4 Shock filed through Vyshny Volochek to secure the north bank of the Shlina, and 55 Army struck at Kaftina, all 3 brigades of 5 Airborne were committed to cut the main rail lines [3].

However, the operation was probably too ambitious. While 4 Shock burst through the German lines, 55 Army was held at Kaftina.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img538/5976/P4gO5n.jpg[/image]
[4]

Despite this, the lead tanks of 4Tank Army were able to exploit the victory of 4 Shock, cross the Shlina and join up with the paratroopers at Firovo.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/9462/L4C44V.jpg[/image]
(elements of 4 Shock Army west of Vyshny Volochek)

Stavka believed that AGN had no operational reserves so the only way to seal off the Soviet breakout would be to weaken their forces elsewhere. Equally this localised offensive might force the Germans to divert formations from their offensive on the Oka.

OOB and Losses

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img537/8540/HY0kWQ.jpg[/image]

In these three weeks, the Germans lost some 26,000 men, 72 tanks and 120 aircraft. Soviet losses were 137,000 men, 650 tanks (mostly T-60 and T-70s) and 670 aircraft. Even worse, partisan reports [5] indicated a new German tank was being moved up to the front lines.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/5125/g4Qbm4.jpg[/image]

[1] "Not one step back"
[2] If I can take Bologoe and the rail line to it and back to Vyshny Volochek, then I really ease my supply problems on the Tveritsa. Also given the nature of the terrain, I have a reasonable chance of being able to hold onto my gains. In the longer term, a bulge in this sector increases my chances of retaking Torzhok and Kalinin as well as being something of a threat to the rear of the German units north of Moscow.
[3] All have landed unready but not as depleted, even doing the drops in daylight, I was able to fend off the limited German fighter interference. Those at Firovo may even survive to fight again, I presume the brigade near Valdai is doomed.
[4] This confirmed what I've suspected, even with my best units I can't really risk marginal attacks but if both had worked I might have been able to slip in tank corps deep into the German lines.
[5] Well actually this was mentioned in an email - as if I don't have enough problems



caliJP -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/9/2014 8:52:04 AM)

One thing I am noticing on this AAR is very surprising to me:

On T51-52, SigUp had ~3400 tanks
By T57 he had ~4800 tanks. Wow!!! That's +1400 tanks in 6 turns, while actually conducting offensive operations. Is that a result of the switch to 1.08?
And by T63, after another 6 weeks of heavy offensive, he is at almost 5000 tanks!
I have never seen a German Panzer force of 5000 tanks in summer 1942, specially at the end of a heavy summer campaign.

Is this due to 1.08? Is this historical? This a very deadly force and it would be a real challenge for a 1942 Red Army to stop it!



morvael -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/9/2014 8:55:30 AM)

Different classification of ground elements in 1.08 is the source of this.



caliJP -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/9/2014 9:02:45 AM)

Oh. Duh.. That's right I forgot about that change.
Thanx Morvael!



loki100 -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/12/2014 7:27:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caliJP

One thing I am noticing on this AAR is very surprising to me:

On T51-52, SigUp had ~3400 tanks
By T57 he had ~4800 tanks. Wow!!! That's +1400 tanks in 6 turns, while actually conducting offensive operations. Is that a result of the switch to 1.08?
And by T63, after another 6 weeks of heavy offensive, he is at almost 5000 tanks!
I have never seen a German Panzer force of 5000 tanks in summer 1942, specially at the end of a heavy summer campaign.

Is this due to 1.08? Is this historical? This a very deadly force and it would be a real challenge for a 1942 Red Army to stop it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Different classification of ground elements in 1.08 is the source of this.


aye that change had me in shock, but then I remembered from the advance discussions of 1.08 that what was being shown as a 'tank' had been altered.



loki100 -> T64: 3 – 9 September 1942 (12/12/2014 7:33:49 AM)

T64: 3 – 9 September 1942 - A train went through a burial gate

The start of September brought fresh shocks to the Soviets. The offensive in the north was quickly blocked by German reserves and Stavka pulled back the assault divisions into reserve.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img540/8961/N2g81Y.jpg[/image]

It was clear that a limited assault on a single axis of advance was far too easy for the Germans to block. However, the implicit threat of a renewed attempt on this sector would also ensure the Germans were forces to retain a reasonable reserve.

However, it was to the south of Moscow that the latest disaster unfolded. Stavka had ordered Ryazan to be held at all costs and the Siberian forces of 1 Shock Army had taken up defensive positions in the city.

However, the Luftwaffe pounded the defenders and effectively destroyed all but the most rudimentary command and control capacity.

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img913/8969/4xJsxt.jpg[/image]

Despite the Soviets throwing in all their available reserves

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img674/504/yKzER5.jpg[/image]
(Soviet forces in Ryazan were clearly running out of manpower)

The massive German offensive overwhelmed the defenders, leaving the Oka as the barrier between the two armies [1].

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img673/4539/dJ3JCo.jpg[/image]

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img913/3475/Z7Eojy.jpg[/image]

With their capture of Ryazan the Germans faced a choice and Stavka a desperate position. With an expected 4 weeks to the autumn muds [2], they were unlikely to be able to renew any offensive towards the Volga before the November frosts [3]. Stavka estimated they were unlikely to push over the Oka at Ryazan as they would become entangled in poor terrain, restricted supply and the multiple defence lines prepared in November 1941.

If they decided to maintain their offensive at Moscow, the most likely plan would be to try to drive the Western Front back to the Moskva. However, to be able to operate beyond the Moskva meant first securing the rail bridges at Kolomna. This in turn led Stavka to fear a deep drive towards Kurovskoe effectively cutting the main rail line linking Moscow to the Volga armies.

The deployment of the armies pulled back into reserve was designed to limit this threat.

OOB and Comments

[image]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/img661/633/8TNGjy.jpg[/image]


Key data is that the supplies in stores has improved (+16,000) and in units is up 3,000. Reserves of manpower and armaments are building up nicely.

Of the overall numbers, the Germans are up 2,000 men, down 200 guns, down 300 tanks. Soviet OOB is up 30,000 men (despite another 100,000 prisoners), 3,000 guns and 200 tanks.

The airforce deployed to forward bases (ie the number on the Stavka line in the detailed OOB) is up as I've been juggling formations to help with the supply problem – but still need the VVS as my primary effect combat tool. Most is now located around Moscow as I suspect that is where any final action related to the German summer offensive will take place.

There are no massive changes in the OOB for individual combat Fronts. The numbers in the Volga, Urals and South Urals MD are collectively down from 720,000 men to 550,000 but this reflects feeding in replacement divisions to replace my losses. Thus despite its losses (including all the prisoners), Leningrad Front has actually grown a little (3000 men) as the reinforcements arrive from the rear area MDs.


[1] – I'm in two minds if this was such a disaster. On one hand I wanted to keep a city (VP) and a toe hold over the Oka. On the other, he could easily screen it so as to make any attempt to break out pretty pointless.

Equally this was going to fix not only 1 Shock (still one of my best units) in place but also 2 Shock and 41 Army in order to protect Ryazan from encirclement. Having lost the city, all these are now added to my reserves, plus pulling back the 3 Armies I've committed at Vyshny Volochek. Most of this reserve is not really that great for offensive work but represents a substantial block of units that can sit on key locations.

So I now have a strategic reserve of 6 Armies (2 armoured) behind Moscow and another 6 Armies in reserve over on the Volga.

[2] - ie with random weather we are guaranteed mud in the north from 10 October (turn 69?), but we have not had any all summer in the north so of course there is a random chance of only 3 clear weeks.

[3] – as far as I can tell from recon there is only limited armour supporting their units in Central Russia from Tambov to Rostov. This can change but it will take say one turn to move from their current location to the front lines in the centre, one to move up to my forces and that leaves very little time to develop an offensive. Of course a renewal of the German attack once snow arrives in November is very feasible but at least by then my NM will back to the giddy heights of the 42-43 I've had for most of the game.



morvael -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/12/2014 7:34:15 AM)

The only problem I have with the new classification is that it has damaged my carefully maintained stats in an external worksheet.



morvael -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/12/2014 7:48:32 AM)

A month of difficult fighting left, and from then all important things should improve (morale, supply, artillery). Watch out for the airforce expansion in December. Did you build some Mech corps? It takes a lot of time before they train to get their CV up.



loki100 -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/12/2014 10:04:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

A month of difficult fighting left, and from then all important things should improve (morale, supply, artillery). Watch out for the airforce expansion in December. Did you build some Mech corps? It takes a lot of time before they train to get their CV up.


I built 12 mot brigades when they first became available and they've been with my early Tank Armies. So that part has gained some experience and even a couple of early wins. Converting that tranch to mech corps is now my priority for admin pts ... if I can leave them untouched till November they should help a lot at that stage. I'll also try to create a 5th Tank Army as that'll make use of some Tank Corps I have in reserve (at the moment training up but also designed to replace losses).

I've a mound of notes on what to convert and build over the next period. One of my priorities is to optimise some armies for fortification busting. He has a lot and I need to deal with them before any dreams of mobile warfare. Can't wait for the next Front to arrive, not especially as a command formation (though that will allow me to remove the last combat armies tied to MDs) but as a bearer of spare admin pts.

As to what SigUp can do, I'm not sure and I've misjudged both in terms of optimism and pessimism so far. My guess is we have at best 4 clear turns and we've had no mud in the North Soviet zone so its possible that one might be lost (we've had mud everywhere else for a single turn).

If he goes for the Volga, my guess is it will take 2 turns to move his armour/mot units over to where my front lines are, one turn to puncture that line and that will not get him all that close to the real targets (Saratov et al). If he goes for Moscow while he probably has the power to gain some bridgeheads I doubt he has the capacity to open up a clear route over the Oka (ie 3 hex wide). So one turn even to cross, one turn to expand (I'll let stuff be encircled rather than give up ZoC on any bridgehead), then 2? turns to push on.

But that is going to cost him roughly 1-1 losses with no obvious gain.

His other option is to try and find some more army sized pockets to take out.

The alternative is to set up something that he develops in November - thats more feasible but at least my NM will be back where I've had it most of the game (42-43) and I reckon that is worth 1cv per decent rifle division.



morvael -> RE: T61-T63: 13 August – 2 September 1942 (12/12/2014 10:10:21 AM)

Main trouble with morale growth is your supply situation. When units eat less than they really require there is little chance their morale will go up. As for mech corps the problem is -20 exp drop, in my case I opted for a "merge first then grow" rather than "grow, merge, and grow again". But it took some time and many wins (attached to two good tank corps in a tank army) to get those mechs from CV 2 to CV 20... In any case you have to make sure your supply and truck situation improves before you will be able to grow some real muscle.



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