RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (Full Version)

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mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/12/2014 11:40:30 PM)

So, you guys are having trouble with the Orks, eh?

[image]http://www.quickmeme.com/img/34/344f148238488166e812cae596a2217438e87396929acf3ec0df24ebcc6262dc.jpg[/image]

Nah, just kidding.

Here's v.8.1: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56152025/WH40k%20mod%20v.8.1.zip

And here is what it does.

v.8.1 changelog
-balanced anarchy government type better
-made all governments hate anarchists
-fixed communist Ork bug
-nerfed Ork race, and some Ork components (boyz pawd, warp enjuns)
-made Orks act more Orky (almost no emphasis on research, no impetus to build facilities, moar gunz, etc)
-balanced warp tech to make it not absurdly expensive
-nerfed Haree (wayyyyyyy too smart for an Ork)

Honestly, I blame this all on Haree. The Orks were just your run of the mill super baddies before I added him. He really whipped them into shape good...so I gave him a partial lobotomy and things should be ok now.

Capshades - I know what you mean about the armor. It is meant to present the user with a hard choice, because both are arguably very useful and while you can mix them both, it will delay your ability to upgrade them to their full capacity. I may have a solution to the AI issue, though. I will address it next update.

I also hear you guys on the warp drive thing. I have a solution in mind too, all I ask is that you wait until I overhaul the energy tech tree(next weekend). In the meantime I hope the reduction to warp drive costs satiates your righteous need for balance. I honestly didn't realize it was so absurdly expensive...I was under the impression that the multiplier was capped far below 20 but I guess I was wrong. That was definitely not intentional. Its addressed now and I apologize for that.

I will also be extending the weapon tech tree more if you guys like what I have done so far. Just check out the laser weaponry techs I added to this version; that is what I want to do to every weapon.





SF-Inc -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/12/2014 11:45:12 PM)

Thanks a lot Mensrea :D

Edit: I am curious what is up with the bombard weapons. There seems to be the old tech still (Nuclear Devastator) that is significantly better in all regards to the new tech (Plasma Devastator).



NexusCron -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/13/2014 10:09:04 PM)

I wonder if you could add more imperial looking ships that aren't the warships, I love the warships, but I mean constructors, mining vessals, ect. The Black ones feel, I unno, out of place?



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/13/2014 10:33:07 PM)

SF - The nuclear devastators use a lot of uranium. The plasma ones only use the ships power. I wanted to offer players an alternative to using uranium in bombard weapons because sometimes uranium is hard to get, especially if you are already running uranium reactors on your ships.

Nexus - I actually had more imperial looking ships in there before, but they were all the same with the exception of some amateur enhancements I made. Basically, I felt like they looked really bad...really, really bad...I'm no artist, and they were embarrassing me. I then got rid of them and replaced them with some Eve ships. I'm not sure what else to use because the only other sorts of ship models I have for the imperials are noticeably combat ships. Sorry I can't deliver better news but if I have to pick between the black ships and my really bad ones I choose the black ones, even though they don't match the combat ships. Not sure what else to do unless I can get more art submissions.

EDIT: Any word on how the nerfed Orks are doing? They should still be quite challenging, but not more so than the Imperium or Eldar.



blackhelm -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/13/2014 11:22:02 PM)

Wow mensrea, I thought I'd be some podunk nothing, but here you've made Sabel Cask out to be a titan of leadership and power! [X(]

The Orcs seem much much better - still worrisome, as is justified, but definitely not the kind of overwhelming dominance that appeared before. (Military strength more on the order of 14,000 in the first 5 years, rather than 40,000) Also, I really really like the tech tree stuff you're doing. Did you see the patchnotes? 300 components max now, and basically completely separate tech trees if you want to do that for each race (which should go well with your "origin" techs).

I did notice that technocratic governments get progressively worse over time? Not sure if that's a vanilla thing, or this mod, but I was bummed that I didn't realize it for one of my experiment games as the Auretians (because they are known as the Auretian Technocracy in the lore). Considering I don't really play technocratic governments in vanilla, I can't help you there. But I prefer democratic governments anyways, so that's what I'll stick to [:D]

I love the wonders - I think the best way to justify the "one in the universe" restriction is to consider them ancient artefacts. So you spend a whole lot of money bribing rogue traders and such to find and transport various critical pieces leftover from the Dark Age of Technology, and whoever gathers the necessary components first inevitably locks competitors out from finishing their instances. So the upfront cost comes from the intensive intelligence gathering, expedition funding, and trader haggling/bribing necessary to complete the project, and then once an empire has acquired, say, that one example of an STC derived micro-fusion generator for a planet circling orbital foundry, then tough luck for everyone else.

Also, in the weapons tech tree, it looks like the LR Torpedoes component is getting "overwritten" in the design screen by the mega-huge missiles (the 1600 size component). Not a huge problem, more like a minor inconvenience. Not sure if that's because of how the progression is defined, but I thought it seemed off.

As ever, fantastic work!



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/13/2014 11:47:55 PM)

Thanks man. Glad you like Sable, he gives a pretty fierce face to the otherwise seemingly benign Auretians.

I am using characters as a way to give races more flavor. On the one hand he is very powerful, as are all of the ones I have added. On the other, he can be killed, and if you have built an empire based off his bonuses you will be in a bad position.

The new modding capabilities will make it a lot less messy to have racial tech trees. I have some idea of where to begin, but I think I will focus on my normal tech tree work first.

Good to know on the Orks. Mostly I just took away their redundant bonuses and made their components not as overpowered.

You know, I actually did think of you while balancing the governments. I nerfed them all as part of ongoing balancing efforts but I as I was nerfing technocracy I figured you would notice, having probably counted on that bonus. I then decided to add leaders and characters to balance out those nerfs a bit. It seemed in the end that everything worked out well. Just keep in mind that relative to other governments technocracy didn't change. I'm just trying to curb the massive amounts of liquidity in games.

I like that idea on the wonders and it sounds like a very reasonable justification for having only one.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly about the LR torpedoes and missiles. I just checked and there are no overlapping techs. Your tech tree should look like this:
[image]http://i.imgur.com/cEWj7Wq.png[/image]

EDIT: I also wanted to mention that the mod is compatible with the latest update.



blackhelm -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 12:33:18 AM)

Good to know about the gov'ts - it did notice a drastic change in liquidity, which is nice - less abundance makes for more meaningful choices.

For the missiles tech, what I was trying (and failed) to convey was that in the Ship Design screen, when you have "Only show latest components" box checked, the Massive Missile component overwrites the LR Torpedo component, rather than being considered an additional up-to-date option. Which means that you have to uncheck the "Latest components" box and wade through the morass of obsolete components to find the LR Torpedoes. (Perhaps I'm being a bit melodramatic, it really is only a minor nuisance). Because I've never had a reason to want components from more than one branch of a weapons tech tree I don't know if that's just how it always is with, say, phasers vs lasers. If so, then feel free to ignore me [;)] (I tend to start a new game once I get past the middle stages - I just seem to enjoy the early game more than the late game)

I look forward to seeing what you do with the tech trees! Oh, and the awesome leaders are fun, especially because it feels very thematic to murder the Orc Warboss to stop an otherwise unbeatable Waaagh!! If only it could reliably cause the Orc faction to fragment into multiple factions. (Actually, is that even a thing in this game? Maybe I'm thinking of something else...)



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 6:23:49 AM)

Uhhh, AI just designed and is trying to upgrade to a size 55,503 LSP...I don't remember that as being normal, and it's taking forever to upgrade. Completely covers the planet, and then some.

Playing Imperial in V.8.1



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 1:17:48 PM)

Well, building stations at planets never had a size limit and I think the recent update may have changed how the AI designs ship/stations. That is by far the most ambitious building project I ever heard an AI embarking upon though. I kinda want to see a screenshot of this monstrosity. You know, for science. What does it even have on it? I imagine multiples of the huge missile launcher meant only to be placed on stations.

I think a solution might be to custom design the stations so that they are not obscenely big. That's definitely on my list and just got bumped up.



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 7:32:18 PM)

I just quit because the game was essentially dead at that point. The size was due to the AI adding 30 MERMs, and all the support components including 115 reactors and 600+ life support/habitation modules. 70 docking bays and 50 construction yards in the mix too. And no other weapons. I couldn't see the planet at all, and this was a big planet, not a moon.

I have a question about the construction system. In the galactopedia thing it says that you should have 1 of each factory (weapon, hightech, and energy) per 3 construction yards, yet with 50 construction bays there's only 2 of each factory. Is the AI designer or the guy who wrote the info wrong?



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 8:53:58 PM)

That 1-3 ratio is not accurate. Player testing confirmed that you do not need anywhere near that. The designs are also based off of Icemanias AI work which is a further refinement to previously established numbers.

30 MERM's??? MADNESS! I can understand how the game was dead. Those things probably laid down so much firepower that it wiped out anything near that system.

Is the MERM too much, or do you guys like weapons basically meant for orbitals?

EDIT: Was this a large spaceport? If so that's not good: the AI is not adhering to the designs.

EDIT AGAIN: Oh, scratch that. They are doing exactly what I told them to do. They just don't understand the distinction between MERM's and torpedoes...they all are just missiles to them.




Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 10:18:16 PM)

Alright, I may still just add a few extra factories just for the hell of it.

The large space station never completed. I waited for over an hour, only having my backup small station online. I don't know if it was a lack of resources or what, but that planet had a 10,800 production capacity (shipyard wonder + Imperial continental) and the completion % barely changed in an hour's time. Never got a lack of resources warning or anything.

I haven't actually seen what MERMs can do yet, but I don't think 30 of them is a realistic number for a single space station, not at their current construction capacity and support requirements. Maybe 3-4 on defense stations instead? I prefer your no-weapons approach for stations better than the MERMs lol

Edit: Which is not to say I don't think MERMs should be big and costly. They should, it's just that this game doesn't always allow smooth gaming and realism to combine.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/14/2014 10:32:13 PM)

The problem is that they are lumped into the same category as normal torpedoes. I can fix that thanks to the most recent update though. I will just classify them as super missiles and cap it at 1. They won't be able to destroy planets, though. To be honest I really don't think space faring civilizations would have a cavalier approach to planet destruction, so I'm not adding anything that can destroy planets other than the cyclonic torpedo (which lorewise was used mostly to take on Necron tomb worlds). Much more efficient to wipe out the inhabitants. Too bad there isn't a neutron bomb type bombard weapon even, that kills all the people but leaves the infrastructure intact.

Matter of fact, given the addition of the super weapon classifications I may add more weapons designed solely for use on orbitals if you guys think they are a good addition. I think I will tone down their energy requirements though, as even one requires immense amounts of life support and such.

The idea behind MERM's is that they are basically suicide vessels being manufactured in big orbital factories. They deal immense damage, have incredible range and upgrades can make them very, very fast, both in travel speed and launch rate. My intention was to overcome the need to station a fleet on every system by adding weapons that can cover a whole system. That way you can build a super fortress in each system instead of using fleets, if you so desire.

30 of them would probably make that system completely impenetrable, as the AI wouldn't have the sense to send in ships armed primarily with LR point defense first.



blackhelm -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/15/2014 3:20:41 PM)

Ah, so I wasn't crazy about MERMs being considered the upgraded version of torpedoes. Also, I don't think PD actually targets anything but fighters/bombers - I'm pretty sure there's no counter for any weapons systems (beyond shields and armor).

As for orbital weapons systems, it'd definitely be nice, but I'm not sure how the AI would handle it - it's really not geared to deal with super long range combat... no harm in trying it out, of course, so go for it!



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/15/2014 10:19:13 PM)

Oh no, there's no way I would add a normal component as strong as the MERM. It was always meant to be a super weapon exclusively mounted on orbitals, and that is why I made the weight almost as much as the bigger ships.

Yeah I must have been thinking of another game in regard to the PD targeting missiles. Would be nice though.

I can run some tests to see how the AI handles some of the super weapons before I implement them. I'm thinking it might be alright with seeking weapons such as the MERM, but not normal ones.

I'm also considering reclassifying macro weaponry as lasers. I can change the graphics for the projectiles so it will not look like lasers, and it will not track what so ever. When I was playing a game yesterday it seemed like the macros(torpedoes) were tracking more than I remember. A little course correction was fine but I don't want them doing huge turns. I had hoped upping the speed would make that less noticeable but it didn't seem to yesterday. I'm not sure if something changed or I was blind before.

The next update will be coming out next weekend, by the way. I am hoping to basically finish up the bigger parts of the mod with this one. So far races are almost done, I have 5 more left. Progress on the tech tree is going well too. I still want to add the pirate races and Necrons, and wrap up a lot of loose ends. I am thinking we will have 2-3 more versions until the mod is officially out of alpha. After that it's just upkeep and adding little things. I was also thinking of adding more music, but to be honest I don't personally even listen to the game music, I play stuff of my own in the background and it seems like a lot of other players do too. Other than inflating the filesize I'm not sure how much value that adds.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/16/2014 4:52:06 PM)

Will the Necrons be a playable race or will they be like the Shakturi in the vanilla DW?



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/16/2014 8:11:47 PM)

Yes, they will be playable. While at first I was unwilling to add them because of timeline concerns I am using this line from the lexicanum as my justification (from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron)

"For sixty million years the Necrons remained in their deathless slumber in their tombs in what became known as the Great Sleep. As time passed, many Tomb Worlds fell prey to malfunction or ill-fortune. Some were destroyed by marauding Eldar. These failures destroyed millions, if not billions of dormant Necrons. But when the Tomb Worlds did begin to reawaken, it was not simultaneously. Some awoke to see the Great Crusade, others during the Age of Apostasy. Most however awoke during the later years of M41, but even still billions of Necrons lay dormant. [4d]"

I am also thinking of adding another highly requested race based off this..

"The Imperium's first official contact with the Tyranid race was in 741.M41, when the Hive Fleet later known as Behemoth invaded the Eastern Fringe and annihilated planet Tyran. However, reexamination of Imperial records has led to speculation that the Tyranids have been invading, or at least probing, the Galaxy for much longer. Some of the Galaxy's most notorious predatory beasts, such as the Catachan Devil[2b] or the Fenrisian Kraken[8], are guessed to be the descendants of ancient Hive Fleets."

In addition to this information I have thought up some novel approaches to making these races. They will not work like your average race and players using them will have to completely change the way they play the game.



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/17/2014 2:37:06 AM)

Mensrea, i'll take a look and see if I can dig up any good 2d art for tyranids/necrons. What are you thinking of doing for their unique tech trees? It seems like with the patch you can go hog-wild with very distinct per-race tech trees, and i'm thinking that the necrons and tyranids would probably be some of the best candidates for a distinctly different playstyle then the other races.

*Edit: I assume you have already taken a look at the necron sprites here: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5539.15 correct?

Also using this: http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1346/13/1346135374922.png to start with might be fine.. not sure if the style is ok with you but a bit of tidying up in photoshop.. maybe changing the colors a bit would probably do it.

**EditEdit: Looks like you could check out some of the great fleet art posted here: http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7081 to fill in some of the minor races, if you feel like doing that eventually.



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/17/2014 12:58:33 PM)

Alright, I spent some time converting some other ship models to create a "new" necron set. I would be delighted if you used this set for the Necrons, of course in hopes that you will actually add them to the mod. :)

The old necron sprites from the images I linked above are complete crap... I hope that the ones I have added here fit the necron theme (the new one anyways) close enough.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/17/2014 4:28:38 PM)

Well, seems you beat me to it. I also worked on some Necron stuff including UI icons, ships and troops. It's however based on the old Necrons (which I personally prefer).

I also worked on orc and eldar stuff, if mensrea is interessted i'll post it.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/17/2014 7:14:18 PM)

Wow guys, that's some fast work! I am definitely adding Necrons, and even have their race file designed. These files will come in handy. Whichever shipset I use for the Necrons, the other will still get used on another race.

I am quite interested in seeing if anyone can find Tyranid ships.

I also was looking at some ship models Phocian had given me a while back and noticed that there were some nice Rogue Trader ships in the pack. I will be swapping out the black ships that don't match with those. They don't share a color scheme but the overall designs are the same.

To answer your question on how these races will work, I can give you a general idea here. The Necrons will have almost no population growth. Instead, they will frequently receive free troop ships (Necron ships who are gathering around the newly awakened tomb world). They will also receive massive population boosts to implementing exterminate policies on occupied worlds (converting population into more Necrons, I would restrict this to only work with humans but cannot: see pariahs). They will be forced to search out other dormant tomb worlds to build up population. Of course these aspects would normally be stifling but the Necrons will have such high bonuses that it should work out. They will also be barred from using shields and instead rely on custom armor (necrodermis).

The Tyranids will have, practically, their own tech tree and unique components. They will not use minerals and ores like every other race. Instead, they will need food and biomass to grow all their components. They wont have shields either, but instead will have quite powerful armor and component repair modules. Their population will also have a hard time growing without access to biomass and DNA (living creatures to consume). One thing I aim to do is make it so planets with massive amounts of biomass (planets where you get armillaria fruit from) make them much, much more powerful. I am also going to look into giving them the ability to spawn monsters, but don't bet on it working.

Swizzle, I did notice you had the deceiver and nightbringer listed as leaders. The C'tan were actually defeated by the Necrons in a great uprising before they went into stasis (not destroyed, but broken into many shards). Their leaders had finally come to their senses and realized the terrible mistake they had made in casting off their flesh and becoming soulless servants to the star gods. After the revolution and the beginning of the slumber, the leaders then removed the built in controls from their people, basically making them free.

Upon awakening then, they were usually lead by the nobles and lords that had commanded them before they became machines. They essentially regained their souls to an extent, only to be extremely pissed off at what they had become and more so, at all the little peasant races that now occupied their galaxy and desecrated their tombs. I'm pretty sure this was a retcon though, because I remember the lore changing at one point (sort of like how the Tau suddenly became Orwellian and the Stouts, well, we just don't talk about them). Honestly, I kind of like this retcon though, it makes the Necrons seem a lot more interesting than just being mindless C'tan pawns.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/17/2014 7:27:17 PM)

Some Tyranid stuff. I hope you find it of use.



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 12:26:40 AM)

Really cool images Japhet. For the ships, would recommend doing a bit of recoloring to match the color scheme across ships.. maybe make them a bit lighter so they aren't hard to see over a black space background? Cool. :)



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 2:09:11 AM)

Thanks guys. I already put this artwork to good use.

I know I said I wouldn't be doing this. Here I am though, doing it.

Here's v.8.2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56152025/WH40k%20mod%20v.8.2.zip

Keep in mind this has not been thoroughly tested in gameplay, but nothing unpredictable was changed so it should be fine. I added many techs, added Necrons and balanced many things. I actually have 3 races left to work on, not counting the Tyranids and 4 pirate races I have planned. The weapon tech tree is now completely finished. I wound up adding over 120 new techs in that branch. I think it got a little out of hand but I personally like to always be able to play a different game by never simply maxing out all research. If you don't like that play style I highly recommend doubling research rates (or more).

On another note, I have maxed out my dropbox space, so I have to remove some older versions. I will try to retain major changes just in case.

v.8.2 changelog
-all but 3 races have been finished (minus art and full dialog)
-added the Necrons with full art and custom UI courtesy of Japhet and Swizzlewizzle
-extensive race balancing and rework
-complete and massively expanded weapon tech tree. 543 techs now, and still energy and high tech left
-government balancing
-many other small tweaks and fixes



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 2:20:20 AM)

Can the AI handle the new expanded tech tree without dithering around at level 2 tech for eons?



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 2:52:23 AM)

Yeah, it can, if you tell it exactly what to do via research pathing, which is something I have not done yet. It also follows its primary techs to an extent, which are included.



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 7:33:35 AM)

Really interested to see what you'll do with the other two tech trees. Have you figured out how to get the change to the planetary facilities to work yet?

Also btw the link on the front page for V.8.1 is to v.8.2 lol



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 8:41:51 AM)

quote:

Really cool images Japhet. For the ships, would recommend doing a bit of recoloring to match the color scheme across ships.. maybe make them a bit lighter so they aren't hard to see over a black space background? Cool. :)


Sadly, I really suck at recoloring (you can see that on the Eldar stuff I'll post in the near future), otherwise I would have changed the imperial ships into the nice and stylish green and white. I also didn't made the tyranid ship images. I found them on the web some time ago, but I can't remember where. Maybe it was the Starsector forum.

By the way, I'm aware of the C'tan fluff change, it's just that I don't like the Newcrons that much and adding C'tan Portraits is just cosmetic anyway.[;)]



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 10:00:27 AM)

Looks like the computer thinks the level 1 armor is better then necrodermis for ships... so unless I manually upgrade all of my ships, they will continuously revert back to crappy level 1 armor. :(

EDIT: Also seems the computer thinks upgrading to the 520 size hyperdeny is good... ~_~

Also, for necrons, taking over a planet with troops results in only that planet's population, which means that even though necrons get a 400% boost to growth rate, there are no necrons on the planet to "grow"... ?

Also.. "Flee when" needs to be FORCED to "never" for necron designs - necrons have no shields so not turning this on leads to ships always retreating instantly.

Finally, looks like grav beam research is a bit broken... upgrading the beam does nothing.. seems that you copy pasted a few too many times. :)

**EditEdit: The higher weapon techs require a truly massive amount of research.. i'm not sure if this is intended, but the "super area weapons" tech requires on the order of a THOUSAND TIMES more research then the highest level of hyperdrive....

It's basically impossible to finish any of the end or second to end tier weapons in a normal game.

Some more... I don't know if it's just me, but for races like the imperials and necrons with really good ship maintenance... it seems that there might be *too* many ships. In most battles in the mid game my computer chugs away trying to process the battles, especially with 50 million fighters/projectiles all over the place in addition to the ships themselves... Makes things not very enjoyable. :(



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (8/18/2014 1:50:44 PM)

Ok, here are the Orks. The ships are...not particulary good. Most of them aren't even new. I just used the older ones to create civilian ships and bases, so that the Orks aren't using any DW vanilla ships anymore. I did put in some alternative base images aswell, but they don't mix very well. Not that Orks would care about such things. [;)]

By the way, mensrea, you don't have any plans of spitting the Orks into seperate Races/Klans?







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