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Champagne -> RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans! (8/6/2014 4:39:47 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: loki100
quote:
ORIGINAL: Champagne
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Also, it might be thoughtful to keep in mind that, during the War in the East, trenches were not as effective as they were in World War I. Tanks, better infantry tactics, better artillery and better artillery ammo combined to reduce the effectiveness of trenches on the Eastern front during World War II.
Well, not quite. Look at the various offensives by Western Front on the Orsha-Mogilev axis from late 42 till early 44. Massive losses (incl the Mars foul up), some can be put down to less than stellar Soviet leadership and planning but mostly the German defensive lines were just too good,
It wasn't till Rokossovsky cleared Gomel, using much more astute tactics, and flanked this line to the south that they made any progress. So in sectors, fortifications did turn specific campaigns into a WW1 re-enactment.
What I think is the problem in game, is that FZs are relatively cheap, esp for the axis who often build up a large pool of admin points, so you can extend the fortification belts much more widely than they were historically deployed.
On the other hand, esp in the Ukraine, the Germans didn't accept they were on the strategic defensive till after Kursk, a mistake that no competent German player is going to make. Its another of those issues where game design and player hindsight, lead to a different pattern to what really happened - but not necessarily a pattern that was impossible. In reality if the Germans had started to dig a serious defense line on the Dniepr after their victory at Kharkov .... ?
Good points, but, I'm not sure that my points about better tactics and artillery ammo are refuted. I will certainly agree that these improvements did not render field fortifications weak or useless.
The fighting in this sector was dominated by the defense, as you say. Certainly the German fortified villages, trenches and obstacles played a huge role. Also, the forested terrain in this area helped the defense.
None of what I add to the conversation diminishes or challenges any of your points, I hasten to add. Indeed, the fighting in the sector that you mention is an absolutely essential part of the conversation on the topic of how the game should handle Fortifications.
Clearly, on the Eastern Front during WW2, trenches, earthworks, obstacles and fortified towns were very important and could dominate the battlefield at times.
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