RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (Full Version)

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Joshwoo69 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/12/2014 3:02:43 PM)

Any news on DW2?



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/13/2014 7:28:06 PM)

Nope, no news about DW2. I guess you'll have to wait a few more months.

There's news about Research Reloaded, though. The mod now has 293 components (7 less than cap) and 900 research projects (100 less than cap). [8D]

Also I have a question for you.

Right now the tech tree goes (save supertech) up to level 9, just like vanilla. I'm seriously considering adding two levels, one more is not feasible due to structural reasons.

Why you ask?

First to increase diversity even more due to players and AI focussing on less tech trees.
Second to somewhat counteract setting research costs lower due to there being way more projects to research.
Third to introduce new (kinda) super tech levels where it wasn't possible previously.

What do you think?



Cmiller -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 12:23:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi
Second to somewhat counteract setting research costs lower due to there being way more projects to research.


So you don't want people setting their research costs lower? Also, how feasible will it actually be to actually "reach" level 11 by the end of a game. I don't mind playing long games, but I also don't play sandbox games either. As it is now, I usually never reach the end of my tech trees before setting the game aside for a new one. Not sure if I'll ever get a chance to research the end game techs unless I set costs to abosuluet minimum. But then it becomes a retrofit frenzy when you do that, so, um, yeah...

Anyway, its your mod, do what you want. That's just my opinion on the matter. Though if I end up testing your mod, don't expect results of level 11 techs from my side, okay [;)]. I probably won't reach them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi
The mod now has 293 components


Don't tell me your gonna go over the new 300 limit now, lol.

Cmiller



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 12:33:44 AM)

I think lets get default design, then you will be able to extend it. Seems its now quite complex, and its a insteresting question how much time needed in order to research all needed techs. I really like the idea, because then there will be more sence to be research race, and more length to games for people who want it. If it need more heavy balance and alot of modding and tweaking, perhaps better to leave it to "tea and cookie" time, for now its time of "first dish", and if the cookies will complicate testing and digesting it it will be better to hold with it. If you release your mod sooner - sooner people will start to test it and you will get the oportunity to tweak/test it with players/ai in actual research queues sooner . :)
just my 5 cents :)



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 12:48:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmiller

So you don't want people setting their research costs lower?


No, that's not it. I just want to prevent lower settings people might use due to the huge amount of research projects leading to reaching the final level too fast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmiller

Also, how feasible will it actually be to actually "reach" level 11 by the end of a game. I don't mind playing long games, but I also don't play sandbox games either. As it is now, I usually never reach the end of my tech trees before setting the game aside for a new one. Not sure if I'll ever get a chance to research the end game techs unless I set costs to abosuluet minimum. But then it becomes a retrofit frenzy when you do that, so, um, yeah...


Seems you play really short games, I usually reach the final levels of all important tech trees, and I play on expensive. Well, not that this is required. Anyway, lower settings should keep the gaming time similar to what it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmiller

Anyway, its your mod, do what you want. That's just my opinion on the matter. Though if I end up testing your mod, don't expect results of level 11 techs from my side, okay [;)]. I probably won't reach them.


Try harder! [:'(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi
The mod now has 293 components


Don't tell me your gonna go over the new 300 limit now, lol.


Well... [:D]

Nah, I guess I'll keep juuust below it.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 1:01:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

I think lets get default design, then you will be able to extend it. Seems its now quite complex, and its a insteresting question how much time needed in order to research all needed techs. I really like the idea, because then there will be more sence to be research race, and more length to games for people who want it. If it need more heavy balance and alot of modding and tweaking, perhaps better to leave it to "tea and cookie" time, for now its time of "first dish", and if the cookies will complicate testing and digesting it it will be better to hold with it. If you release your mod sooner - sooner people will start to test it and you will get the oportunity to tweak/test it with players/ai in actual research queues sooner . :)
just my 5 cents :)


Well, a sooner release isn't possible as long as the component bug isn't fixed, we have to wait for the next patch anyway. That patch probably also has the weapon modifiers I really long for... [&o]
I also have to consider balancing and research queues. I guess Icemania won't be very happy if a later extension forces him to restart.



Joshwoo69 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 2:04:12 AM)

Maybe delicate the 7 to super awesome weapons [:)]



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 8:16:46 AM)

First for me lurchi do what you want.[;)] Second, if its about more research projects, do it.[:D] Third, if it takes another year, please release it first if its stable and extend it after this.[:'(]

Last, still i want a cake![:(]



Joshwoo69 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 9:25:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

First for me lurchi do what you want.[;)] Second, if its about more research projects, do it.[:D] Third, if it takes another year, please release it first if its stable and extend it after this.[:'(]

Last, still i want a cake![:(]

No cake for you [:-][:'(]
The cake is a LIE!



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 10:06:42 AM)

But... but... its a cake![:(]



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 10:48:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

I think lets get default design, then you will be able to extend it. Seems its now quite complex, and its a insteresting question how much time needed in order to research all needed techs. I really like the idea, because then there will be more sence to be research race, and more length to games for people who want it. If it need more heavy balance and alot of modding and tweaking, perhaps better to leave it to "tea and cookie" time, for now its time of "first dish", and if the cookies will complicate testing and digesting it it will be better to hold with it. If you release your mod sooner - sooner people will start to test it and you will get the oportunity to tweak/test it with players/ai in actual research queues sooner . :)
just my 5 cents :)


Well, a sooner release isn't possible as long as the component bug isn't fixed, we have to wait for the next patch anyway. That patch probably also has the weapon modifiers I really long for... [&o]
I also have to consider balancing and research queues. I guess Icemania won't be very happy if a later extension forces him to restart.


Icemania wont start integration till testings and tweaks are done, so you better release original base hwich could be tested, this will create better platform to put extension on it, which will need less testing. Once all this done then there will be reason for integration. I really like that idea, alot (And i really want you to make it - those more 2 levels). Simply i think that approach of releasing some base material so you can get feedback is better, this way player will able to "digest" all information faster.



Joshwoo69 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 11:22:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

But... but... its a cake![:(]

THE CAKE IS A LIE.



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/14/2014 12:09:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joshwoo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

But... but... its a cake![:(]

THE CAKE IS A LIE.



NO, ITS JUST TIER 9 CAKE AND ITS HARD TO RESEARCH. I ADVICE YOU TO ADJUST PRE-SET COSTS, AND PUT SOME TEA SETTINGS ON.
Btw as modder i am excited and menaced by qty of the techs we will need to grind and test in order to balance and integrate mods.



DinoSaurus -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 7:56:46 AM)

One ponit for LURCHI SPECIAL DW Version 2.0: [;)]

What about additional resources needed for components etc.?

If you add new components it also would be one way to add further mineral resources... or?

[:D][:D][:D]

Have you thougth about?

By the way: if you ask, maybe they will allow more than 80 resources and change it from 80 to 200 - so you have 120 (in words: hundredandtwenty[;)])new possibilities to mod... [sm=character0272.gif]



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 9:42:31 AM)

K, since most of you think more tech is good I'll add the two new levels. I guess I might go up to 1000 research projects with this.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 9:46:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DinoSaurus

One ponit for LURCHI SPECIAL DW Version 2.0: [;)]

What about additional resources needed for components etc.?

If you add new components it also would be one way to add further mineral resources... or?

[:D][:D][:D]

Have you thougth about?

By the way: if you ask, maybe they will allow more than 80 resources and change it from 80 to 200 - so you have 120 (in words: hundredandtwenty[;)])new possibilities to mod... [sm=character0272.gif]


I already have various new ressources. [:D]
Nah, contrary to the other caps 80 ressources is plenty.



Hawkeye_BF -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 10:04:59 AM)

great :)))



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 11:53:32 AM)

There you go new component cap, we will not miss you.[;)] Or are they only upgrades for existent components and dont bother with the component cap?[&:]



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 1:06:03 PM)

Well, I have 7 components left to use, but one is already reserved for a race tech. I also want to keep a few, for future race techs. We'll see.



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 1:36:26 PM)

Lurchi, if you will use them then your mod will be not compatible and wont be open for making of megamod.
I really advise you against using those, and even it would be better if you keep them for aditional race's unique ones. I think Beyond have 6 of those. (as race specific additional components for Lemeresh, Such-Oos, Veey, Yereni, Dlakar, Archei)



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 1:40:13 PM)

Thought so. Well, the race tech I made is still free. It's a special ship armor, want to use that for one of your races?



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 1:43:09 PM)

Yes, there 2 race slots open still. Np, actually armor is great because it will go for some plant race which grow barks on their organic ships, so it fits well :D



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 1:57:49 PM)

If the bark is the armor it doesn't fit. Said armor is a super hard high reactive biological substance produced from a long extinct ancient race. I already have the ressource and all.



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 2:01:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi

If the bark is the armor it doesn't fit. Said armor is a super hard high reactive biological substance produced from a long extinct ancient race. I already have the ressource and all.



Well, we can adjust it, also i hope Devs will lift 50 race limit soon.
I wont develop more races from current 48 till it lifted anyways - because i want to keep alliances balanced, so i will add races in sets of 4. So perhaps this tech could be useful for 51th or 52th race. Please send me details so i will have material to think about. :)



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 2:41:01 PM)

K.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 2:55:38 PM)

Sent. [:)]



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/15/2014 2:59:38 PM)

Aye, got. Replied.
Nice stuff, will go for 51th race. Probably Dark Forces or Red Coalition one.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/16/2014 9:12:39 PM)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the stuff is snow white, so a corresponding white shipset would be nice.



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/16/2014 10:02:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the stuff is snow white, so a corresponding white shipset would be nice.


Snow white set used by Such-Oos but retinting any other wont be any problem.
Also i have idea for them - Protosomatic family (worm-snail-leech related) desert race, Red Coalition (friendly to XHuman, Banoserit, Caleph, Lipid etc and hostile to Quameno/Lemeresh/Wekkarus/Vesareen&co Pact)
More 4 races will start their dev process as soon as devs lift limit of 50 races.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New huge research tree, new everything... (9/16/2014 10:16:07 PM)

Worms, eh? So, do you insinuate race #51 is distantly related to the ancient producers?

Apropos producers, I included a nice pic of one in the galactopedia entry. They really bear a slight resemblance to the Shakturi. Interesting. [:D]



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