Comparison with Battle Academy 1

Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (Full Version)

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mllange -> Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 4:58:45 PM)
Forgive my ignorance, I haven't been following the development of BA2, however I own BA1 and most of the expansions. Is there a summary available providing a comparison highlighting the differences between BA1 and BA2?

Tac2i -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 5:56:45 PM)
Smoke and a random mission (skirmish) generator are two enhancements.

FroBodine -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 5:57:46 PM)
Well, I hope it's a lot more than that. I would call that BA 1.1

Tac2i -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 6:15:04 PM)
From the BA2 product page: quote: Control both the Axis and Soviet forces in more than 30 missions across 4 single player campaigns and corresponding multiplayer missions. More than 130 units storm across the battlefield. Learn the hard lessons of the early war in Panzer III and BT-7, or feel the ground shake to fury of the Tiger, Panther, T-34 and IS-2. New gameplay features include smoke, infantry dash, fighter cover, partial damage, and trenches – along with a detailed combat model that’s second-to-none. The seamless multiplayer experience has been expanded with the addition of cooperative support – can you and a friend work together to defeat the enemy? An already fearsome modding flexibility has been further expanded with editor improvements including automatic edging, achievement editor, and reinforcements. All atop a powerful scripting system giving complete control of all the game systems.

Blond_Knight -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 6:30:13 PM)
The editor is much improved over BA1. Its very easy now to draw and edge linear objects. Also they automated some things like victory locations and reinforcements to generate their own scripts so you don't have to. Edit I see they've "sleeked" the artwork up some since the EAP. Very nice.

IainMcNeil -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 7:34:13 PM)
There are literally hundreds of improvement. Here are a few off the top of my head * Random map generator * Skirmish mode with random sides on random maps for single and multiplayer * Army list system where you can specify which force fights which force - e.g. 1941 Pz Grenadiers vs 1941 Tank Army * Co-OP mode - play all single player scenarios in Co-Op mode * Integrated air model. Call in fighter support, gain air superiority and launch air strikes * Smoke - smoke bombardments, mortars lay smoke, tanks lay smoke * Trenches - trench systems allow LOS down the trench line but not in to it from outside * Partial damage - tanks can be immobilised, weapon systems knocked out, accuracy or movement reduced * Open topped armoured suppression - infantry can now suppress armoured vehicles if they are open topped * Green units - many early war Russian units are green with limited shots and reduced accuracy until they gain some combat experience. There are hundreds of other changes but these are the ones that I remember right now :)

FroBodine -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/11/2014 8:47:56 PM)
Thank you, Iain. I am definitely getting this game. What is the reason for weapon systems getting knocked out? Why not just destroy the tank? The only reason I can think of this being more than just eye candy is that you could continue to move the tank around and use it as a ruse, if the enemy does not know the weapons have been knocked out. What other thoughts did you guys have for modeling weapons systems damage?

Tac2i -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 12:30:59 AM)
A vehicle with it guns knocked out can still move. A vehicle that has been tracked and can't move, can still fire it's weapons.

FroBodine -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 1:08:04 AM)
Yes, I understand the vehicle can still move with its gun knocked out. I was wondering what use modeling this has in the game. But, thinking about it, you could still use the vehicle to take a victory location. Other than that, it is useless. That was my point. What is the use of a vehicle with its gun knocked out?

Tac2i -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 1:11:53 AM)
As you surmised, it can still capture a victory location. Yes, an armored vehicle without functional weaponry isn't of much value unless it captures that one victory location you need to win. quote: ORIGINAL: jglazier Yes, I understand the vehicle can still move with its gun knocked out. I was wondering what use modeling this has in the game. But, thinking about it, you could still use the vehicle to take a victory location. Other than that, it is useless. That was my point. What is the use of a vehicle with its gun knocked out?

FroBodine -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 1:40:08 AM)
Pretty darn cool. I am having a blast with this game so far. And, I'm just on the first campaign mission!

Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 1:46:52 AM)
So does the game have a random map generator that can be used in multiplayer with user defined point purchase? Really enjoyed much of the single player aspects in BA1, but the mutiplayer experience soured too quickly with the limited maps. EDIT: Looks like it does have random maps for mp. Can someone elaborate how these are handled in mp mode?

mllange -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 2:42:43 AM)
Appreciate the responses. I hope it isn't a case of an underwhelming release in terms of content where you have to purchase scores of DLC extras or expansions. I suppose I'm getting old and cheap.

MrsWargamer -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 3:22:04 AM)
On first glance I am guessing some will dismiss that game as not being worthy of the expense. I personally think it is worth the expense. But as I said, initially visually it doesn't look tooooo dramatically different. Most of the value likely will require some digging. Reading comments that highlight the changes will certainly make the difference.

Meroka37 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/12/2014 5:08:27 AM)
Random map or skirmish is for multi or single, that's a great value...

TheWombat_matrixforum -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/14/2014 12:00:55 AM)
One thing that I see seems to be carried over from BA1 is that, in single player at least, when the enemy turn is processing, you still see which units the enemy has as each gets cycled through for orders by the AI. It seems like a no-brainer to instead have the game display a generic enemy image (lower left of the screen) while it cycles through the AI units. As it is, you end up getting a pretty good idea of what is there, and what is not there. Just seems weird. Not a huge deal, but odd.

kaburke61 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/14/2014 5:10:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheWombat One thing that I see seems to be carried over from BA1 is that, in single player at least, when the enemy turn is processing, you still see which units the enemy has as each gets cycled through for orders by the AI. It seems like a no-brainer to instead have the game display a generic enemy image (lower left of the screen) while it cycles through the AI units. As it is, you end up getting a pretty good idea of what is there, and what is not there. Just seems weird. Not a huge deal, but odd. +1 to that. I myself don't look down in that corner when the turns are playing out.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 7:53:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil There are literally hundreds of improvement. Here are a few off the top of my head * Random map generator * Skirmish mode with random sides on random maps for single and multiplayer * Army list system where you can specify which force fights which force - e.g. 1941 Pz Grenadiers vs 1941 Tank Army * Co-OP mode - play all single player scenarios in Co-Op mode * Integrated air model. Call in fighter support, gain air superiority and launch air strikes * Smoke - smoke bombardments, mortars lay smoke, tanks lay smoke * Trenches - trench systems allow LOS down the trench line but not in to it from outside * Partial damage - tanks can be immobilised, weapon systems knocked out, accuracy or movement reduced * Open topped armoured suppression - infantry can now suppress armoured vehicles if they are open topped * Green units - many early war Russian units are green with limited shots and reduced accuracy until they gain some combat experience. There are hundreds of other changes but these are the ones that I remember right now :) One comment regarding LOS down the trench line. This is rare in reality because any half-trained infantry unit will kink the trenches to prevent exactly that problem. In fact, making your way down a defended trench is a tough ask.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 7:55:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jglazier Yes, I understand the vehicle can still move with its gun knocked out. I was wondering what use modeling this has in the game. But, thinking about it, you could still use the vehicle to take a victory location. Other than that, it is useless. That was my point. What is the use of a vehicle with its gun knocked out? Enemy units still waste AP firing on the damaged vehicle - they don't know that the gun is knocked out. This can be very useful indeed!

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 7:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kaburke61 quote: ORIGINAL: TheWombat One thing that I see seems to be carried over from BA1 is that, in single player at least, when the enemy turn is processing, you still see which units the enemy has as each gets cycled through for orders by the AI. It seems like a no-brainer to instead have the game display a generic enemy image (lower left of the screen) while it cycles through the AI units. As it is, you end up getting a pretty good idea of what is there, and what is not there. Just seems weird. Not a huge deal, but odd. +1 to that. I myself don't look down in that corner when the turns are playing out. +1. That annoys me as well...

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 7:59:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nim8or Appreciate the responses. I hope it isn't a case of an underwhelming release in terms of content where you have to purchase scores of DLC extras or expansions. I suppose I'm getting old and cheap. My overall impression: 1. Improved gameplay and some interesting new tactical options with smoke etc. 2. East Front focus - my personal area of interest. 3. Disappointing number of campaigns (many of the key operations are simply missing - no Stalingrad, no Kursk etc.) 4. Too many odd little scenarios featuring partisans etc. Leave those to the modders and focus on the major battles IMHO. 5. Overall, worth having but I expected more from the game.

IainMcNeil -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 8:50:56 AM)
Kursk is being worked on at the moment but required more special attention than we had time for in the base game. Stalingrad is also something we'd like to do but needs some careful thought about how to handle a city based campaign. So these are will be filled in later but it was too much for the initial release. It already has 33% more campaigns than the original Battle Academy, includes campaigns from both sides (a big request from payers), plus skirmish mode and random map generator so contains vastly more content.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 12:40:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil Kursk is being worked on at the moment but required more special attention than we had time for in the base game. Stalingrad is also something we'd like to do but needs some careful thought about how to handle a city based campaign. So these are will be filled in later but it was too much for the initial release. It already has 33% more campaigns than the original Battle Academy, includes campaigns from both sides (a big request from payers), plus skirmish mode and random map generator so contains vastly more content. That's great to hear, Iain. Perhaps the Stalingrad campaign could be structured as two separate campaigns, as follows: 1. Axis - Large battlefields covering the initial Axis advance (Recce, Break-in, Break through and exploitation). 2. Axis - Smaller scenarios covering specific urban fights (grain silos, Pavlov's house, etc.) 3. Soviet - Back to large for the Soviet counter offensive, as above. 4. Soviet - A couple of battles covering Manstein's failed rescue effort. 5. Soviet - A final Stalingrad Pocket one

IainMcNeil -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 3:25:12 PM)
It is the urban fighting we really need to focus on to do Stalingrad right. We think we need multi story buildings and that's pretty hard to get right so is the stumbling block right now. It woudl be easy to do the setting int eh engine but we didn't think it would feel right without some additional mechanics and we haven't got consensus on how they would work right now.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 3:42:16 PM)
Yes, I can see your point. If you're looking at a multi-story solution, will you also consider cellars and sewers, which were very important...?

Gerry4321 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/15/2014 10:55:36 PM)
Very exciting that you are thinking about multi-story buildings. Most tactical wargames today do not address this and I do not see how you can do city fighting without it. Good luck with this development. Gerry quote: ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil It is the urban fighting we really need to focus on to do Stalingrad right. We think we need multi story buildings and that's pretty hard to get right so is the stumbling block right now. It woudl be easy to do the setting int eh engine but we didn't think it would feel right without some additional mechanics and we haven't got consensus on how they would work right now.

IainMcNeil -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/16/2014 11:06:16 AM)
I think we'd have to keep it to one unit per tile as this would completely break the system and massively complicate the UI for players, but we might allow them to shoot and be shot at from different levels. Maybe we let you select which level you want them to be on and each level has different benefits and penalties. E.g. high up gives you better viewing distance and inflicts more damage but maybe more exposed to things like heavy weapons/tanks. It all needs to be thought through and play tested along side the existing rules but its a fairly complex set of issues.

gdrover -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/17/2014 3:56:02 PM)
Sounds like you just solved it, and very well: A unit in a building enters on the ground floor, but could spend extra AP to 'move upstairs'. This would give them better vision as well as a plus to hit, and a defensive bonus against assaults. Simple and elegant. Cellars and sewers could be handled in a separate scenario.

MrsWargamer -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/17/2014 4:36:34 PM)
Thinking about the multi story problem. I think the solution might be to make the location type able to be selected different. I think if a unit enters a location with an additional level existing, it might only allow the option to occupy effectively more terrain and in the process be more dispersed and in the process able to be more able to see more terrain. But leave it maybe as a single unit in the location still. I have no knowledge of the game code so I am not sure if the above ramble is even doable. I just know that I unit can move though a location at speed or in hunt mode, so it follows that I unit can move in varying ways, so maybe moving through a multi story location needs to be given a choice option at the moment of entry. Going from lower to encompassing all levels might be codable the way you can tell a unit to go from active to pass mode (the one with the hand symbol).

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Comparison with Battle Academy 1 (9/21/2014 5:50:52 PM)
One characteristic of the Stalingrad battle was the frequent presence of opposing units on different floors of the same building; Axis on the 1st floor and Soviets on the 2nd. This situation could last a while and it had important tactical effects.

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