RE: Groundhog Day! (Full Version)

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Crackaces -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/8/2016 5:21:23 PM)

quote:

Saigon will likely fall tomorrow to another direct attack. Saigon's LI is untouched at 41 yet the units are indicating a supply issue which is curious.


I think LI takes fuel and resources to do its thing ...a lack of one of these means no production?

Ok so 1 resource becomes 10 supply ..and thus a quicker return on the 1,000 supply investment ..100 days

That seems very reasonable ...

Its been awhile for me since I have played so the details allude me ... [:'(]



BBfanboy -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/8/2016 8:32:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Saigon will likely fall tomorrow to another direct attack. Saigon's LI is untouched at 41 yet the units are indicating a supply issue which is curious.


I think LI takes fuel and resources to do its thing ...a lack of one of these means no production?

Ok so 1 resource becomes 10 supply ..and thus a quicker return on the 1,000 supply investment ..100 days

That seems very reasonable ...

Its been awhile for me since I have played so the details allude me ... [:'(]

Unfortunately it is the other way around - it takes 15 resource inputs to produce ONE supply per day. That is not to say 15 resource industries, because each will produce 10 resources per day, so 1.5 resource industries produce enough resources for one supply point from one LI factory.

For HI the figures are 20 resource and 20 fuel inputs = 2 supply and 2 HI points per HI factory. The HI points are applied toward building aircraft, ships and weapons, and for the Japanese , pilot training.



Crackaces -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/9/2016 2:15:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Saigon will likely fall tomorrow to another direct attack. Saigon's LI is untouched at 41 yet the units are indicating a supply issue which is curious.


I think LI takes fuel and resources to do its thing ...a lack of one of these means no production?

Ok so 1 resource becomes 10 supply ..and thus a quicker return on the 1,000 supply investment ..100 days

That seems very reasonable ...

Its been awhile for me since I have played so the details allude me ... [:'(]

Unfortunately it is the other way around - it takes 15 resource inputs to produce ONE supply per day. That is not to say 15 resource industries, because each will produce 10 resources per day, so 1.5 resource industries produce enough resources for one supply point from one LI factory.

For HI the figures are 20 resource and 20 fuel inputs = 2 supply and 2 HI points per HI factory. The HI points are applied toward building aircraft, ships and weapons, and for the Japanese , pilot training.


Ok .. that is what I thought (1 LI = 1 Supply per day) .. but Wargamr observed he was getting 10 supply per LI factory per day?



BBfanboy -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/9/2016 4:14:03 PM)

I once saw supply seem to increase by the amount of LI X 10, but have since concluded it must have been outside supply coming in at the same time I was looking for the LI output. The figures I gave above are direct from the manual, which I checked as I drafted the post.

When you have lots of fuel available, it is more efficient use of resources to have HI producing since it is a 1:10 ratio of industry to resource required.
LI ratio is 1:15.



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/10/2016 11:37:01 PM)

I am sure BBfanboy is right. There is currently 1566 LI in China, Manchuko & Korea to take down.

The plan is to lunge Northeast toward Manchuko in an effort to re-supply the soviet units as supply is getting extremely low.

To emulate the animosity between the soviets and the allies I am not going to co-mingle ground troops or aircraft and will not conduct any cross nationality air assaults. For example, I have a huge stack of soviet units in Harbin so I am not going to do any allied strategic attacks on that city unless they move out.

If I can get them a big chunk of supply then I think the front will collapse and I may win the game without invading Japan.

While this is going on I intend to land amphibious forces along the coast of Korea, putting pressure on these troops as well.




Lowpe -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/10/2016 11:39:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


The plan is to lunge Northeast toward Manchuko in an effort to re-supply the soviet units as supply is getting extremely low.



I thought that might be a great weakness/attraction to attacking Soviets early. There is simply not enough Soviet supply...




Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/11/2016 12:05:16 AM)

The first step of the lunge is Tungchow just north of Shanghai. I brilliantly go in with guns blazing and completely miss the troops. However, I made sure there was nothing left resembling an airfield...

Back to the drawing board on that one.



[image]local://upfiles/45141/957FFABDC5FF497EABCBD18F5E8CE00E.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/11/2016 12:11:39 AM)

NJP managed to kill a few loaded tankers this turn. They are bringing needed fuel to Ningpo. This is the first time he has used Okinawa for attacks.

[image]local://upfiles/45141/4B058A2EEB214E31A50B1287068CE7D2.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/11/2016 12:13:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


The plan is to lunge Northeast toward Manchuko in an effort to re-supply the soviet units as supply is getting extremely low.



I thought that might be a great weakness/attraction to attacking Soviets early. There is simply not enough Soviet supply...




NJP cut me off in March and here we are into October. Time to push in Northern Russia while trying a pincer move.

I think the coast of China is weak enough to allow me to pull this off but time will tell.



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/11/2016 12:52:28 AM)

Large ground attacks go in on the Yangtze SNLF at Tungchow and clear out the town. The 2/9th Commando Battalion lands to no resistance.



[image]local://upfiles/45141/F6E7BCBB1801425C96C1CF50860E96CC.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/14/2016 2:58:17 AM)

China October 23, 1944

[image]local://upfiles/45141/A0BCE8EF36E2412C87AAAB3E95A53503.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 1:02:11 PM)

THE BEAR SURVIVES!!!!

Early November in the game. Since March the Japanese have held the rail line backbone of Russia and prevented supply from flowing south.

Now, with the threat of the Allies moving in from the south (you can see them entering Tsinian at the southwest corner of the map) the siege has been broken.

A few days ago the Japanese abandoned Skovordino. After the base converted over it started receiving supply from the north. Mogocha is also empty and will be taken within a few days.

[image]local://upfiles/45141/79415806084749138447A496F6950830.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 1:28:21 PM)

NJP has been making me look like a fool in the naval and aircraft dept lately. I have lost over 500 aircraft to him in the last 3 turns. Mostly due to underescorted dive bombers and torpedo planes. He certainly knows his LBA CAP.

Formosa has been getting beaten to a pulp by 4EB LBA from China. One of the cities was just recently vacated of living Japanese troops and a paradrop has taken the city. In 2 days several divisions will be unloading to expand the beachhead. There has been no return fire from troops on the island for weeks now so he is completely out of supply here.

Hangchow was recently conquered causing the isolation of 3 very good Japanese divisions in the woods to the southeast. NJP moved the stack into Hangchow which IMO was a mistake. I have a much higher SL in Hangchow than the woods nearby. I am following him into the city with the 3 divisions that were in the woods.

In addition I have 1300AV that just attacked him located in the city. If he cannot figure out a way to open a hex side then he will lose these good troops.

Nanking will fall within a week. I am doing another DA today after another heavy bombardment. The forts are down to 1 and his AV is less than 350.

Ningpo now has the capacity for over 1300 aircraft although I have less than 700 there at the moment. Within a few weeks I plan on starting a massive bombing campaign over the western coast of Japan. If it is successful I continue, if it is still too far away I will work my way up the coast.


[image]local://upfiles/45141/91BE0E8DCC07498EBDEA86F60943148A.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 3:13:28 PM)

[&:] There are no woods to the east of Hangchow - just a clear hex and then Shanghai. Did you mean Wenchow?



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 3:56:05 PM)

This attack happened last turn. He is catching me off position. I was going to try to get near him and surprise attack him although he moved back SE under cover of CAP and allowed me to destroy my naval aircraft again.

This combat went well for me actually. One of my carriers took 3 glancing blows and he probably lost 3 destroyers. Dont want to repeat this again though.

[image]local://upfiles/45141/2DC0A70332294211BF4C4353FBF2A366.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 3:57:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

[&:] There are no woods to the east of Hangchow - just a clear hex and then Shanghai. Did you mean Wenchow?


Sorry, I meant woods southeast of Hangchow. He was at that base and moved northwest. The SL on the wooded hex is 55K.



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 4:01:19 PM)

Of course that led to my carriers being out of position to cover my surface task forces.

Now, it could have been much worse than this but it did make me cry....

A Kate dropped a 250Kg bomb, it killed a deck gun, penetrated through the deck and into the magazine. *waves goodbye to Portland*



[image]local://upfiles/45141/687A15AA65334F66A509DCA15D0FB90D.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/18/2016 5:09:10 PM)

Here is the specific attack I am referring to. I turns out that NJP had 2 divisions plus 2 armor units but an AV of 950 which led me to believe it was 3 divisions.

Anyway, the troops that attacked were the ones that just won the battle of Hangchow and there are 3 more divisions on the way into the hex. If he can open a side he may be able to retreat units but he has to move something from Shanghai or that stack to the west and there is no sign of him moving in that direction.



[image]local://upfiles/45141/DC87440D3E464C4CBAC384E664FC60AA.jpg[/image]



Crackaces -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/20/2016 8:01:16 PM)

Based on my experience in fighting the IJ in China in mid 1944 ... (without the IJ waking up the bear)
I think soon NJP72 is going to be in the worse of all worlds ..

1. He will have an accelerated demand on supply given multiple units engaged all over Russia, Manchuria and China. Unlike simply keeping 8K AV supplied as Alfred points out 1 supply unit per device
it will go into the realm of that 10% per round of combat he describes up to 100%. I have no clue how much supply is taken up in movement but that puts a strain on supply. A lot of units are going to have to move around to defend the now multiple fronts.

2. Supply is the crux for the IJ, and I suspect as the fronts move the waste will kick in moving supply where it is to where it is not and activity is demanding it ..

3. An abundance of supply is needed to draw replacements, keep bases X2 supply for supporting the air war etc ..

I propose a lot of resistance .. then collapse ..



Bif1961 -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/20/2016 11:39:23 PM)

Why such light escort for 4 CVs?



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/21/2016 1:00:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Why such light escort for 4 CVs?



They are not supposed to get into surface combat :]



Lowpe -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/21/2016 1:19:07 AM)

Everytime I catch Allied carriers with surface groups they escape![:D][:D][:D]

Or their carriers hit my ships![:D][:D]

You need to learn how to raise the supply arrows as Japan in China to manipulate supply transfers. It is another pain!

With Allies linking supply in Soviet theater, China Falling, it does look bleak for Japan.[:(]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/22/2016 5:54:39 AM)

November 14, 1944.

The 50,000 men and machines in Hangchow have been eliminated. There is 3200 AV now on the move toward Shangahi. He has 35 units in the city, about 1/2 were driven out of Hangchow and bombardments of ships and planes generally give me destroyed units in addition to disabled so even though he has over 100LI still functioning his supply situation is not great.

Another 2000+AV is headed northwest toward Tsinian.

About 3000 AV is on Formosa destroying the units left there. They have been out of supply for quite a while and with close bombing support the units are offering little resistance. Takao has fallen. Taihoku and 2 other cities remain on the island.



[image]local://upfiles/45141/5291FB1FA5F74D52AF8A5FC9BB4DDD68.jpg[/image]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 3:24:47 PM)

Shanghai falls.

[image]local://upfiles/45141/B76FC2E2D4374F2BB12E9A4F2950C075.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 4:11:58 PM)

That seems fast, what is the date?

Congratulation, btw. What a response to attacking Ivan![:)]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 4:16:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

That seems fast, what is the date?

Congratulation, btw. What a response to attacking Ivan![:)]


Upper Right hand corner - November 25, 1944.

I think it surprised both of us that Shanghai lasted less than a week. 3rd attack I believe.

He is still thrashing Ivan on the plains cause I am a dufus but the retreat has begun and I can start building divisions from the scheduled reinforcements.



Lowpe -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 4:32:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

That seems fast, what is the date?

Congratulation, btw. What a response to attacking Ivan![:)]


Upper Right hand corner - November 25, 1944.

I think it surprised both of us that Shanghai lasted less than a week. 3rd attack I believe.

He is still thrashing Ivan on the plains cause I am a dufus but the retreat has begun and I can start building divisions from the scheduled reinforcements.


Sorry, I missed it! Didn't look closely enough, just couldn't believe it fell so fast.

You guys are my heroes. Fast quality play! [&o]



Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 6:20:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

That seems fast, what is the date?

Congratulation, btw. What a response to attacking Ivan![:)]


Upper Right hand corner - November 25, 1944.

I think it surprised both of us that Shanghai lasted less than a week. 3rd attack I believe.

He is still thrashing Ivan on the plains cause I am a dufus but the retreat has begun and I can start building divisions from the scheduled reinforcements.


Sorry, I missed it! Didn't look closely enough, just couldn't believe it fell so fast.

You guys are my heroes. Fast quality play! [&o]



To be fair, I am not showing close to everything. I have damn near the entire airforce parked in Ningapo pounding Shanghai from 1 hex plus 6-8 bombardments going off mostly with light cruiser groups just to cause enormous disruption (and it worked). Plus the fact that when I smashed Hangchow I probably put a big dent in his supply for the damaged units.

NJP is an awesome WITPAE player and anyone would be lucky to have him as a steady dependable and quality opponent!!

On the flip side he is giving me fits on the naval side with CAP traps and smashing convoys moving along the east coast of China.

I am a lot like John in that I broadcast my achievements and overlook the losses ;]



CaptHaggard -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 7:46:48 PM)

Wargamr—

I've just spend the last day reading your AAR. Great stuff. Very nice graphics and narration—anticipation and tension without too much baggage. Very exciting moments!

My game is still in the mail, but I feel I've already learned a bunch in this presentation and in the meeting of such luminous minds. Thank you all!

—Hag




Mike McCreery -> RE: Groundhog Day! (3/25/2016 8:22:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptHaggard

Wargamr—

I've just spend the last day reading your AAR. Great stuff. Very nice graphics and narration—anticipation and tension without too much baggage. Very exciting moments!

My game is still in the mail, but I feel I've already learned a bunch in this presentation and in the meeting of such luminous minds. Thank you all!

—Hag




Wow, thank you, I am honored ;]

My stuff is more swashbuckling than planning. I have an extremely detailed and boring AAR named 'What could possibly go wrong?' on page 4 or so of this forum. It was my first complete game against a real life opponent. I made some mistakes. You can scroll past most of the combat replays and stop when you see pictures. You may learn from my mistakes!!

I would mention some of the great people here but fear I would miss some so I will just say that this is a great group of people. Alfred is sometimes tough to take but you might want to bookmark his stuff if you want to play to the highest level. Starting an AAR is a lot of work but also a great way to get suggestions and help during the game.

Welcome and enjoy the struggle!!



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