RE: Canada and India invaded!

RE: Canada and India invaded! (Full Version)

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Lokasenna -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 4:20:23 PM)
I like how you keep calling it "Victory" [;)]

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 4:48:30 PM)
Haha, missed that! An omen perhaps? [:D]

poodlebrain -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 5:29:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Invasion Canada? _____________________________________________________________________________ I don´t really think there can be much more doubt. quote: 3/2nd Division is loaded on AK Tenshinsan Maru moving to Victoria. 4/48th/B Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 5/2nd Division is loaded on AK Onoe Maru moving to Victoria. 4/16th Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 2/9th Division is planning for an attack on Vancouver. Its makes sense in a way. It explains all the odd things Jeff has been doing for the last few months. But it doesn´t make sense because it doesn´t make any sense whatsoever. There is simply no point in taking Victory and/or Vancouver at this point. It doesn´t give him anything. I can´t stop him from grabbing Victory as I purposely didn´t reinforce it very much. Just added a Canadian BDE and built some forts. So he will gain a few VPs from the troops and industry there. But in exchange he will trigger the Emergency reinforcements...and Vancouver. Not much there even if he can take it. A few VPs and 3 Catalina factories. He is not going to trigger the reinforcements for this little gain. And where are the remaining 10 divisions? Interesting turns ahead I think! Some observations: I don't know your opponent's cost v. benefit analysis with respect to Victoria, but there is real benefit to capturing Victoria for the Japanese. Possession of Victoria would be beneficial to the Japanese because it would limit your ability to use the major ports at Vancouver, Seattle and Tacoma. If the Japanese take it and maximize its garrison, then you will need to launch a major operation to liberate Victoria that will require unrestricted LCUs. There are only two sources of unrestricted LCUs, withdrawing them from other areas or spending Political Points. Neither of those is an attractive option as they will disrupt any plans you might have. The SIGINT reports all show LCUs being transported by xAK's. The slow unload rate means he will have to use a large number of them if he wants to limit their exposure during an amphibious assault.

tiemanjw -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 5:31:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Invasion Canada? _____________________________________________________________________________ I don´t really think there can be much more doubt. quote: 3/2nd Division is loaded on AK Tenshinsan Maru moving to Victoria. 4/48th/B Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 5/2nd Division is loaded on AK Onoe Maru moving to Victoria. 4/16th Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 2/9th Division is planning for an attack on Vancouver. Its makes sense in a way. It explains all the odd things Jeff has been doing for the last few months. But it doesn´t make sense because it doesn´t make any sense whatsoever. There is simply no point in taking Victory and/or Vancouver at this point. It doesn´t give him anything. I can´t stop him from grabbing Victory as I purposely didn´t reinforce it very much. Just added a Canadian BDE and built some forts. So he will gain a few VPs from the troops and industry there. But in exchange he will trigger the Emergency reinforcements...and Vancouver. Not much there even if he can take it. A few VPs and 3 Catalina factories. He is not going to trigger the reinforcements for this little gain. And where are the remaining 10 divisions? Interesting turns ahead I think! How does Tacoma look? I'm guessing Seattle would be a near impossibility for him, but could he be trying to open Puget sound to hit Tacoma. You get a lot of ships there and he could be trying to kill them off for their VPs? Also, faint? Poodlebrain gives a good point about the xAKs... where are the military and amphib ships?

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 5:45:03 PM)
1942 _____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------ The year past ------------------------ An interesting year in many aspects. A somewhat unique opening where Nick (Olorin) started out by invading Peal Harbor. From a VP perspective this wasn´t a very effective opening as the Japanese losses in shipping and aircraft nullified the Allied losses. The net gain was basically the VPs from troop losses at PH. Given the assets involved I believe this wasn´t a very effective opening. Then again I´m a pretty firm believer that the slow BB are pretty much useless in the first 2 years. The allies lost 6 slow BBs at PH which to some might be a hefty price. This opening was followed up by a quick and successful invasion of Alaska and Canada where the Japanese stopped just after Coal Harbor. The 3rd phase of Japanese activity saw an ill conceived (IMO) invasion of India. The forces used was far to weak for the task and India was never in any serious danger. Instead the Allies where able to gain some VPs from Japanese ground and air losses. Instead the Allies have now turned the table and have driven the Japanese out of India and is putting a real threat on Burma. In SOPAC Japanese expansion never went beyond smaller garrisons and invasions. The real Allied strong positions have never been under threat. ------------------------ Allied position ------------------------ We are in a strong position for the coming offensives on 1942. We have avoided any crippling losses although 3 Fleet CVs have been lost to Japanese subs. [8\|] Auto Victory is pretty much off the table with the ratio sitting firm at around 3,2:1. Japanese VPs are mostly tied into base VPs which will be stripped away in the coming years. Overall I feel confident. This might change in the coming days as Japan now have at least 5 divisions at sea. ------------------------ VPs ------------------------ Here is a screen of the VP situation. A few things stand out IMO. One is Japanese ship losses which around half was suffered landing at PH. The other is Japanese plane losses which are extremely heavy. This is also in part on the PH assault but also a consequence of the strategic bombing on the WC. I´m doing reasonably well in the air. I think I´m a little bit worse off then I usually am in this game though. I suffered a lot of losses defending PH early on which might explain a bit. [image]local://upfiles/32406/D65A2DC5981042FC84D565996162A392.jpg[/image]

BillBrown -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 6:16:08 PM)
Question, if he has TFs with destinations set for Victoria, etc, but has a patrol hex at his invasion base, then you would not see where he was really going? Is this right?

Canoerebel -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 6:18:43 PM)
You can use waypoints to confuse SigInt, if I remember correctly. IE, if a Japanese player sets Noumea as the target of a TF, but has a waypoint at Suva (which happens to be the real invasion destination), then SigInt will report the Noumea destination but won't pick up on Suva. I think that's how it works anyhow. So there are ways to manipulate invaison target reports to confuse the Allied player. Do you think Lowpe would give away free intel as to targeted bases this early? If so, why?

Lokasenna -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 7:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tiemanj quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister Invasion Canada? _____________________________________________________________________________ I don´t really think there can be much more doubt. quote: 3/2nd Division is loaded on AK Tenshinsan Maru moving to Victoria. 4/48th/B Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 5/2nd Division is loaded on AK Onoe Maru moving to Victoria. 4/16th Division is planning for an attack on Prince Rupert. 2/9th Division is planning for an attack on Vancouver. Its makes sense in a way. It explains all the odd things Jeff has been doing for the last few months. But it doesn´t make sense because it doesn´t make any sense whatsoever. There is simply no point in taking Victory and/or Vancouver at this point. It doesn´t give him anything. I can´t stop him from grabbing Victory as I purposely didn´t reinforce it very much. Just added a Canadian BDE and built some forts. So he will gain a few VPs from the troops and industry there. But in exchange he will trigger the Emergency reinforcements...and Vancouver. Not much there even if he can take it. A few VPs and 3 Catalina factories. He is not going to trigger the reinforcements for this little gain. And where are the remaining 10 divisions? Interesting turns ahead I think! How does Tacoma look? I'm guessing Seattle would be a near impossibility for him, but could he be trying to open Puget sound to hit Tacoma. You get a lot of ships there and he could be trying to kill them off for their VPs? Also, faint? Poodlebrain gives a good point about the xAKs... where are the military and amphib ships? Those are AKs. They unload at more than double the rate of xAKs. He only gets a couple of "true amphibs" in the 4 or so LSDs. After that, Japan has AK and AMC type ships that unload at an OK pace. Also keep in mind that Japanese load costs are usually much lower than Allied load costs.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 7:51:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tiemanj How does Tacoma look? I'm guessing Seattle would be a near impossibility for him, but could he be trying to open Puget sound to hit Tacoma. You get a lot of ships there and he could be trying to kill them off for their VPs? Also, faint? Poodlebrain gives a good point about the xAKs... where are the military and amphib ships? Tacoma itself is not heavily defended although the forts are pretty high. I have the mobile reserve ready though. 2200 AV is sitting in stratmode 1 day out. I can´t defend everything so I have to rely on the reserves to get there in time. Regarding SIGINT I´m pretty sure Jeff is playing with me using waypoints and all other tricks in the book. But he can´t trick the system when it comes for prepp. And besides Noumea and targets in China everything has been in Canada and Norther WC. Then again I don´t have any prepp intel on most of the divisions he brought to NORPAC and PH. What I do have is solid intel that he shipped them to NORPAC and Pearl. So I know they are there and I know that at least 4 of them are now aboard ships. Moving 4 divisions at the same time means he plans to invade somewhere. Since he brought them to Pearl and Adak the only logical target is Canada and/or the WC. To me it makes no sense though. That is what makes me worried. What am I missing?

Canoerebel -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 7:57:02 PM)
Maybe he's targeting the Gulf Coast? How do Mobile, Tampa Bay and Houston look?

poodlebrain -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 8:26:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel You can use waypoints to confuse SigInt, if I remember correctly. IE, if a Japanese player sets Noumea as the target of a TF, but has a waypoint at Suva (which happens to be the real invasion destination), then SigInt will report the Noumea destination but won't pick up on Suva. I think that's how it works anyhow. So there are ways to manipulate invaison target reports to confuse the Allied player. Do you think Lowpe would give away free intel as to targeted bases this early? If so, why? All of the SIGINT reports show northern destinations. Could that be part of a deception effort to conceal a target farther south? Factoring in speed of merchant shipping and unload rates, it seems the Japanese would have to come within air search range at least 2 days before a landing could be made. Depending on availability, that would give ample time to lay a few "emergency" minefields and deploy PT boats.

rook749 -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/3/2016 9:04:22 PM)
What kind of submarine picket can you extend off the Canadian Coast and Northwest US?

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 5:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: poodlebrain All of the SIGINT reports show northern destinations. Could that be part of a deception effort to conceal a target farther south? Factoring in speed of merchant shipping and unload rates, it seems the Japanese would have to come within air search range at least 2 days before a landing could be made. Depending on availability, that would give ample time to lay a few "emergency" minefields and deploy PT boats. I think its pretty likely that the actual target is something else. The 48th division have been prepping for Victoria for a very long time but its still sitting at Coal Harbor. If he was truly coming for it he would pick up the 48th. 2 day warning is what I´m hoping for! quote: ORIGINAL: rook749 What kind of submarine picket can you extend off the Canadian Coast and Northwest US? I have a picket in place already. But its pretty thin with 5-6 hexes between the subs. So I need to be lucky to find something.

BBfanboy -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 7:36:46 AM)
Bear in mind that a unit can march from Coal Harbour to Victoria in about a month. The first couple of hexes are quite slow but then you hit a paved road ... Try recon by bombing: Set a unit of bombers to "Ground attack" and pick one of the hexes between CH and Victoria as target. If there are enemy troops there it will accept the target, but if there are no enemy troops the target list will stay blank. Repeat for all the hexes between the two locations.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 8:22:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Bear in mind that a unit can march from Coal Harbour to Victoria in about a month. The first couple of hexes are quite slow but then you hit a paved road ... Try recon by bombing: Set a unit of bombers to "Ground attack" and pick one of the hexes between CH and Victoria as target. If there are enemy troops there it will accept the target, but if there are no enemy troops the target list will stay blank. Repeat for all the hexes between the two locations. I´ll try that to make sure. But I´m pretty certain he hasn´t moved any troops out. I have CH under constant recon and troops numbers have stayed the same!

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 8:35:15 AM)
Shiplosses _____________________________________________________________________________ Japanese SSNs have by far caused the most significant losses to the allied fleet. I´m not bothered by the BBs lost at PH as I find the slow BBs of little use in the first 2 years. By the time the become useful their roles can be filled by other means. Don´t like the CA losses but the losses will be replaced. I currently have 18 CAs operational and the Cleveland CLs have just started to roll in. DD losses havn´t been too bad. 21 lost in total but only 4 of them have been modern US DDs. Majority of losses are old 4 pipers. Overall the Allied fleet is strong but losing 50% of the fleet CVs to Japanese subs really sucks. I can make do without them but have to adjust accordingly. Due to PDU OFF the CVEs won´t be as potent as usual They will be stuck with old Kitten throughout the war with only a few able to upgrade to Hellcats. [image]local://upfiles/32406/3F307C5F793442A7B73E5F2BC614804C.jpg[/image]

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 8:47:41 AM)
Japanese shiplosses _____________________________________________________________________________ While the Japanese have suffered no capital ship losses they havn´t escaped damage. 1942 have been brutal on the Japanese DD fleet. No less then 36 Japanese DDs have been sunk during the year. Only 4 of them have been worth less then 6 VPs. Other noteworthy losses are 4 AMCs and 2 big AOs. The PH landing was brutal on the Japanese merchant fleet and I´m still almost daily getting ships added to the list from that landing. I havn´t counted the exact number but its somewhere around 100 ships lost around Hawaii. Most of them to CD guns. [image]local://upfiles/32406/5CD0BA4E96FC48AD8806EDF88755ABA9.jpg[/image]

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 8:55:08 AM)
January 1943 _____________________________________________________________________________ A pretty good month coming up for the allies. Air wise the awesome Corsair kick into production. This will add a huge punch to the USMC. There is nothing in the Japanese arsenal that can deal with Corsairs. [sm=00000028.gif] Besides the Corsair the Kitthawk III also starts producing. A nice boost to the RAAF. The RAF finally gets some recon. On the seas its not too much exciting. 2 Clevelands, 6 Fletchers and 1 Bristol DD and that is about it.

ny59giants -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 11:30:28 AM)
I hope you have one complete American BG (bomber group) of 64 planes (16 x 4) training in LowN for your B-25 attack bombers that come out in Feb. I've had good success with them myself. Add in your next gen B-24s and things are looking up. [:)] In NW USA I would say that Seattle and Portland are the two bases you can least afford to be captured.

BBfanboy -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 1:48:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister January 1943 _____________________________________________________________________________ A pretty good month coming up for the allies. Air wise the awesome Corsair kick into production. This will add a huge punch to the USMC. There is nothing in the Japanese arsenal that can deal with Corsairs. [sm=00000028.gif] Besides the Corsair the Kitthawk III also starts producing. A nice boost to the RAAF. The RAF finally gets some recon. On the seas its not too much exciting. 2 Clevelands, 6 Fletchers and 1 Bristol DD and that is about it. Don't forget that the first Corsair model has less than stellar performance and is not carrier capable. I remember several AAR writers complaining how disappointed they were with their performance, even when they swapped out the pilots for veterans. Might be different with PDU OFF - no Georges to oppose them at first. Those DD losses will begin to hurt the IJN when your subs get better torpedoes, which start improving in January!

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/4/2016 2:22:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants I hope you have one complete American BG (bomber group) of 64 planes (16 x 4) training in LowN for your B-25 attack bombers that come out in Feb. I've had good success with them myself. Add in your next gen B-24s and things are looking up. [:)] In NW USA I would say that Seattle and Portland are the two bases you can least afford to be captured. Sadly training is lagging behind. Being very active on 3 fronts have forced me to cut back on training and have more operational squadrons the usual. Seattle and Portland should be well outside the realm of possibility for the Japanese. At least I hope so! [X(] quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Don't forget that the first Corsair model has less than stellar performance and is not carrier capable. I remember several AAR writers complaining how disappointed they were with their performance, even when they swapped out the pilots for veterans. Might be different with PDU OFF - no Georges to oppose them at first. Those DD losses will begin to hurt the IJN when your subs get better torpedoes, which start improving in January! Whoever was disappointed with the Corsair should be staked to a cross and/or burned as a heathen! Its an awesome plane. First model is held back a little by SR3 rating but besides that is just miles better then anything on the map. For the USMC Its a 407 MPH plane replacing a 318 MPH plane. It has better guns, better range, better everything. How can you NOT love that? [:)]

Lokasenna -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/5/2016 3:30:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants I hope you have one complete American BG (bomber group) of 64 planes (16 x 4) training in LowN for your B-25 attack bombers that come out in Feb. I've had good success with them myself. Add in your next gen B-24s and things are looking up. [:)] In NW USA I would say that Seattle and Portland are the two bases you can least afford to be captured. Sadly training is lagging behind. Being very active on 3 fronts have forced me to cut back on training and have more operational squadrons the usual. Seattle and Portland should be well outside the realm of possibility for the Japanese. At least I hope so! [X(] quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Don't forget that the first Corsair model has less than stellar performance and is not carrier capable. I remember several AAR writers complaining how disappointed they were with their performance, even when they swapped out the pilots for veterans. Might be different with PDU OFF - no Georges to oppose them at first. Those DD losses will begin to hurt the IJN when your subs get better torpedoes, which start improving in January! Whoever was disappointed with the Corsair should be staked to a cross and/or burned as a heathen! Its an awesome plane. First model is held back a little by SR3 rating but besides that is just miles better then anything on the map. For the USMC Its a 407 MPH plane replacing a 318 MPH plane. It has better guns, better range, better everything. How can you NOT love that? [:)] Pssstt..... Attack at 100 feet and they use strafe, which your fighter pilots should be training/trained in. Plus, some of the B-25s have a lot of guns, so maybe decent Air skill will do something for them? Who knows. I don't train on low naval and get hits just fine from strafing. I only use attack bombers for it.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/5/2016 5:58:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna Pssstt..... Attack at 100 feet and they use strafe, which your fighter pilots should be training/trained in. Plus, some of the B-25s have a lot of guns, so maybe decent Air skill will do something for them? Who knows. I don't train on low naval and get hits just fine from strafing. I only use attack bombers for it. That is brilliant. Can´t believe I didn´t think of that myself. [:)]

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/5/2016 6:01:03 AM)
SIGINT _____________________________________________________________________________ More intel. quote: 10/21st Division is planning for an attack on Vancouver.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/5/2016 7:07:15 AM)
Japanese forces in NORPAC _____________________________________________________________________________ 1st Division - On ships - Prepping Victoria - Adak 2nd Division - On ships - unknown prep - Pearl Harbor 4th Division - unkown prep -Pearl Harbor 5th Guards Division - unknown prep - Dutch Harbor 6th Guards Division -Prepping Noumea - Pearl Harbor 9th Division - On ships - unknown prep - Kodiak 12th Division - On ships - Prepping Victoria - Pearl Habor 16th Division - Prepping Victoria - Anchorage 21st Division - On ships - Prepping Vancouver - Pearl Harbor 24th Division - Prepping Victoria 33rd Division - Moving to Bangkok -unkowns prepp -Pearl Harbor- 48th Division - Prepping Prince Rupert - Coal Harbor 1st Tank Division - On ships - Pearl Harbor. 2nd Tank Division - On ships - Adak ------------------------ Total Japanese strength ------------------------ 12 Divisions 2 Tank division 4 Tank RGTs 10+ Artillery units. Some of them siege guns from China. 1 Army HQ ------------------------ Japanese intentions ------------------------ Only thing that makes sense is an invasion of Canada and/or the West Coast. The Allies are prepared though and despite a huge Japanese commitment I don´t think the Japanese outnumber the allies if I factor in the Emergency reinforcements. I´ll make an updated OOB for the Allies on the West Coast if I find the time. ------------------------ Allied planning. ------------------------ This honestly doesn´t worry me that much. A full scale invasion might get a temporarily foothold on the WC but I feel confident I can defend the key locations. These are: San Diego San Francisco Alameda Seattle Portland Los Angeles Tacoma

Lokasenna -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/5/2016 4:52:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna Pssstt..... Attack at 100 feet and they use strafe, which your fighter pilots should be training/trained in. Plus, some of the B-25s have a lot of guns, so maybe decent Air skill will do something for them? Who knows. I don't train on low naval and get hits just fine from strafing. I only use attack bombers for it. That is brilliant. Can´t believe I didn´t think of that myself. [:)] To be fair, they will lose some XP when they are put into the bomber group since they trained as a fighter pilot. But that's fine.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/6/2016 6:15:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna To be fair, they will lose some XP when they are put into the bomber group since they trained as a fighter pilot. But that's fine. I can live with that. [:)]

Lokasenna -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/6/2016 6:01:52 PM)
I feel I should point out, since I just thought of it when seeing your thread title again, that my forum avatar is the artwork from a Magic card called Ovinomancer. He turns other creatures into sheep/kills them and replaces them with sheep.

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/7/2016 4:17:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I feel I should point out, since I just thought of it when seeing your thread title again, that my forum avatar is the artwork from a Magic card called Ovinomancer. He turns other creatures into sheep/kills them and replaces them with sheep. That sounds like an awesome card! Fear the sheep! [:D]

JocMeister -> RE: Canada and India invaded! (6/7/2016 4:17:46 PM)
PS. Lack of updates are due to lack of turns. Jeff has been busy over the weekend but I hope to get one tonight.

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