RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/11/2015 2:30:40 PM)

Plz consult "LEADERS" document I sent you!! [sm=crazy.gif]



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/11/2015 3:10:19 PM)

Just did!



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/12/2015 3:24:13 PM)

March 11th, 1942

Yamamoto is pacing a muttering.

“Wasn’t Tojo doing this?” A staff member whispers to another.

“It’s spreading. That’s why I have my ceremonial gloves on all the time.”

His staff can make out a few words. Wenchow. Dutch Harbor, Suva, Ship Upgrades, Shipyard Size, Air Group Leaders, LCU Leaders, Crew Experience, Reinforcement Locations, Fuel, Resource/Oil convoys, Double Supply Required at Bases to provide Replacements, Overall Supply in Geographic Areas, Overall Industry in Geographic Areas, Overall Industry, R&D, Coordinated Air Strikes, Relative Cruise Speeds, Maneuver Bands, Combined Arms Air Defense. The words, “too much” keep being repeated.

Yamamoto suddenly stops pacing and looks at his staff. His left eye is twitching a bit. “Why do I have an entire country at my disposal, but I have to do everything?”

“Because it’s a very detailed, hands on game. There’s little that can given to us. We are just a not-so-clever representation of what it would be like if it were a real war and provide very poor comic relief.” His senior staff member responds.

"Dismissed"



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 12:37:42 PM)

Back to ground mechanics. Hopefully, someone can answer. The last two attacks against Lanchow, Chinese AV was reduced to 1/4 or normal. Supply wasn't an issue in either attack for the Chinese. There was no supply(-). The negatives against the Chinese were preparation(-) and experience(-). Was it two unlucky rolls that caused the quartering?



Lowpe -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 12:54:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Back to ground mechanics. Hopefully, someone can answer. The last two attacks against Lanchow, Chinese AV was reduced to 1/4 or normal. Supply wasn't an issue in either attack for the Chinese. There was no supply(-). The negatives against the Chinese were preparation(-) and experience(-). Was it two unlucky rolls that caused the quartering?


Not nearly enough information to help you.[&:]

The supply malus doesn't mean there is no supply.

There are different degrees to lack of supply.

There is also disablements, disruption, fatigue, leadership, forts, toe, etc., etc.






vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 1:22:22 PM)

I understand.

This was the first attack. Fort level 3. One of my brigades crossed the river a week earlier into Lanchow and got almost wiped out with little to no damage to him. So his units were probably NOT disabled much if at all and his supply situation was ok. He told me all his units in Lanchow showed white on supply.

Judging by the results of this attack, he was seriously disabled for the second attack. Still doesn't explain this attack though. Is this simply two bad die rolls in a row? The consistency of being quartered twice in a row tells me that there was *some* modifier going on for both attacks. Just not sure what. Right now, my guess is preparation/experience. The 26th division starts the game a crack division. The 37th Division has been involved with combat since the beginning of the war. Both I believe are around 80 experience. I haven't checked the tank regiments, but they are fairly high as well.

Ground combat at Lanchow (81,34)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 34794 troops, 288 guns, 519 vehicles, Assault Value = 1116

Defending force 41089 troops, 204 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1267

Japanese adjusted assault: 866

Allied adjusted defense: 357

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1103 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 86 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (1 destroyed, 22 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2532 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 305 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 28 (4 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
26th Division
5th Armored Car Co
37th Division
15th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
3rd Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
8th Route Army
81st Chinese Corps
34th Group Army



emek -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 3:50:49 PM)

Just finished reading.
Great AAR

I spent more then two weeks working on turn one just to make those decisions you are facing now. Believe me next few turns were long as well.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

March 11th, 1942

Yamamoto is pacing a muttering.

“Wasn’t Tojo doing this?” A staff member whispers to another.

“It’s spreading. That’s why I have my ceremonial gloves on all the time.”

His staff can make out a few words. Wenchow. Dutch Harbor, Suva, Ship Upgrades, Shipyard Size, Air Group Leaders, LCU Leaders, Crew Experience, Reinforcement Locations, Fuel, Resource/Oil convoys, Double Supply Required at Bases to provide Replacements, Overall Supply in Geographic Areas, Overall Industry in Geographic Areas, Overall Industry, R&D, Coordinated Air Strikes, Relative Cruise Speeds, Maneuver Bands, Combined Arms Air Defense. The words, “too much” keep being repeated.

Yamamoto suddenly stops pacing and looks at his staff. His left eye is twitching a bit. “Why do I have an entire country at my disposal, but I have to do everything?”

“Because it’s a very detailed, hands on game. There’s little that can given to us. We are just a not-so-clever representation of what it would be like if it were a real war and provide very poor comic relief.” His senior staff member responds.

"Dismissed"




I am playing against Bill as well. I have a feeling you are underestimating him a bit because he gave you so much ground initially.
He has a strategy and he is very aggressive using his navy.

Be careful !!



Lowpe -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 4:36:56 PM)

For one thing, the adjusted AV you see occurs after a lot of combat has already happened, it is there for retreat purposes and other things.

If you disable or disrupt or kill a squad prior to the calculation the adjusted AV will show it. I suspect his disruption, fatigue, and disablements are really heavy lowering his end AV to the levels you see.

Tanks versus Chinese...bad news for China.[:D]

From LoBaron:

What happens is the following on ground combat:

Theoretical AV is displayed as of pre-combat without terrain or combat induced modifiers
Bombardement phase
Defender fires
Attack phase
AV is calculated using the value of non-disabled/destroyed squads and terrain/forts




vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 4:37:03 PM)

Well, I've been uncertain about him and I've been afraid I've been under-estimating him.

He does is this hit and run thing. It's working quite well. Shows up suddenly with the AVG and then disappears, usually shooting down quite a few of my planes in the process. A daring Surface Raid in both SoPac and NoPac bagged a few of my transports, and then silence for weeks.

I won't under-estimate him.



witpqs -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/13/2015 6:01:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For one thing, the adjusted AV you see occurs after a lot of combat has already happened, it is there for retreat purposes and other things.

If you disable or disrupt or kill a squad prior to the calculation the adjusted AV will show it. I suspect his disruption, fatigue, and disablements are really heavy lowering his end AV to the levels you see.

Tanks versus Chinese...bad news for China.[:D]

From LoBaron:

What happens is the following on ground combat:

Theoretical AV is displayed as of pre-combat without terrain or combat induced modifiers
Bombardement phase
Defender fires
Attack phase
AV is calculated using the value of non-disabled/destroyed squads and terrain/forts



What he said (but I don't remember all the details).

In most situations, it seems that even high-quality formations get their final AV much lower than their starting AV. Not always, but far more often than in WITP, or so it seems. You get used to it, but it can be hard to gauge when it will happen. I think it mostly relates to the suppression of AV-contributing squads by the larger weapons earlier in combat.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/15/2015 2:06:44 PM)

Looks to me like somewhat a black box. That works for me.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/15/2015 2:15:33 PM)

March 14th, 1942

Bataan fell to the first attack. They are having supply issues. I'm realizing how much I fubarred this game. Use China Command with RGC Army HQ to take Wenchow early. Unless I'm doing something like a PH Invasion or Canada invasion from turn 1, 3 divisions for Singapore (after Mersing and making sure ARM is put to reserve so it can move into the retreating hex and cut off northern Malaya), 1 division for Palembang, 5 Divisions for Luzon with Bataan the first major objective to open naval bombardments for Manila. That frees up 9 divisions for secondary objectives. Sigh.....next game.

So I'm in March and I have 10 divisions still tied up between Wenchow and Luzon. Yuk.

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32690 troops, 336 guns, 246 vehicles, Assault Value = 981

Defending force 8605 troops, 174 guns, 45 vehicles, Assault Value = 225

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 2076

Allied adjusted defense: 65

Japanese assault odds: 31 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bataan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
685 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Allied ground losses:
4758 casualties reported
Squads: 245 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 429 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 177 (177 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 49 (49 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 10

Assaulting units:
2nd Division
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
5th Division
1st Sasebo SNLF Coy
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
301st Construction Battalion
45th PS Infantry Regiment
31st Infantry Regiment
803rd Aviation Engineer Battalion
4th Constabulary Regiment
III/Prov'nl SPM Grp
Manila Bay Defenses
II/Prov'nl SPM Grp
Bataan USN Base Force
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment

[image]local://upfiles/28990/48A78ADDE72D400A99A1324B0B3FDC5B.jpg[/image]



emek -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/15/2015 6:37:56 PM)

Normally players retreat to Bataan as it provides built up forts and terrain

. He is spreading his forces making easier for you to take both Bataan and Manila. As long as you prevented fort buildup.

You bombed Manila from the beginning right?



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/15/2015 7:12:30 PM)

Stacking Limits prevent Bataan. Only 45k there. The rest is in Manila. He could have pushed more into Bataan, but I beat him out of Clark faster than he expected. I've been bombing Manila from day 1 with the exception of a few bomb runs on Bataan.

What I did wrong was focus on Java before Manila. If I had focused on Manila, it would have collapsed quickly and then I could have shifted the divs to Java and then they would be ready for second objectives. Instead, I focused on Java and then had to shift 2 Divisions back to Luzon. Wasted a lot of time with this.

Tactically, I made a mistake. Once Clark was taken, the 65th Brigade should have held Clark and the 2 Divs attacked Bataan in order to clear the way for naval bombardments of Manila. Instead, I went for Manila first and succeeded in depleting my divisions.

Numerous mistakes. All good since my objectives have simplified in this game.



emek -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/16/2015 8:02:23 AM)

There are no stacking limits at Bataan.



ny59giants -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/16/2015 11:31:51 AM)

I disagree with your initial disposition of forces, especially for Luzon. The 16th and 48th ID along with 65 Bde should be enough. I typically start the 20th Division broken down into components found around Seoul, Korea prepping for Manila as its one of the first I buy out. Even if I'm playing DBB (not RA or BTS with more mobile Command HQs), the NE Fleet or 5th Fleet starts to prep for Manila before moving to Luzon. IMO, the punch that you get from both Corp/Army HQ along with Command HQ passing their die roll cannot be overstated. Keeping Manila AF damaged so the Allies cannot ever build up forts is important. Often as Allies, Japan will take a breather and allow me to get level 2 or 3 forts.

In Malaya, I now divide my initial landings to include both Kota Bharu and Kuantan with 5th ID and 18th ID split to hit each base. Kuantan (most BFs land here) is close enough to cover Mersing landings with LRCAP. Capture the bases and quickly reload for Mersing invasion. Imp Gds comes down west coast of peninsula. Follow up divisions go to Mersing to follow 5 & 18. You should be in Singapore by end of December with it captured or close to with 4 or more divisions involved.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/16/2015 9:36:38 PM)

2 Divs, the 65th Brigade and 1 more Div (either 38th from Hong Kong or 20th out of Korea) would be enough. I guess. If I took Bataan first, which is critical, opened the way for naval bombardment, approx 1000-1400 AV could do it. I'm hosed right now as I've allowed him to get to level 3 forts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: emek

There are no stacking limits at Bataan.


In the mod we are playing, every hex has a stacking limit. For Bataan, it's 45k, which is around 3 (Japanese) divisions. For Manila, it's 160k. There isn't one hex on the map without a stacking limit.



Yakface -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/17/2015 8:54:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

2 Divs, the 65th Brigade and 1 more Div (either 38th from Hong Kong or 20th out of Korea) would be enough. I guess. If I took Bataan first, which is critical, opened the way for naval bombardment, approx 1000-1400 AV could do it. I'm hosed right now as I've allowed him to get to level 3 forts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: emek

There are no stacking limits at Bataan.


In the mod we are playing, every hex has a stacking limit. For Bataan, it's 45k, which is around 3 (Japanese) divisions. For Manila, it's 160k. There isn't one hex on the map without a stacking limit.


IMO he's made a poor choice in defending Manila rather than Clark field. Now you can leave a division +a few smaller units and artillery to make sure he can't break out. Park an AE at Bataan and run round the clock bombardments of Manila. Remember, you're not fighting his troops, you are fighting is supply dump. Supply hits from 14 inch guns + 250kg bombs will run his troops out of supply in a short period. Manila is going to be of no use to him (and not threat to you) with 100% damage to all facilities, so leave it to starve and come back in a few months with a couple of divisions to mop up. Forts don't help much when the troops behind them have no bullets.

One last thing - make sure he isn't getting supply into Manila by ship or sub. ASW TF's in the shallow water of Bataan should make the sub route difficult. I'm guessing the ship route is not an issue by May



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/17/2015 4:12:51 PM)

Hmmmm....I have 5 divisions there now, plus Southern Command HQ, so I could just muscle through on it. 2 Divisions are full strength (900 AV), the rest are 1/2 to 1/4 depleted. I already have the ASW and AKE in Subic, so good to go there. I could transfer 3 divisions somewhere else. Perhaps Northern OZ? Not sure yet. My goals this game have simplified to push a bit more in SoPAC (Suva, Norfolk, Lord Howe), isolate Pago Pago as an effective base and collapse China. 3 Divisions could help secure the Vietnam - Fusan LOC.



ny59giants -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/17/2015 4:31:05 PM)

What is going to help your economy more?? Pushing down into SoPac or taking NW Australia (Exmouth and Carnarvon)? If you leave the NW in Allied hands, you risk an early jump into Java area in '43. As Japan it comes down to three things - oil, oil, and oil. [;)]



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/17/2015 9:50:24 PM)

North Oz it is. Suva first. I'll starve out Manila.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 2:23:32 PM)

March 19th, 1942

I don't think the Chinese north can hold. Looks like a defense in depth. I think that will only allow me to kill units in piecemeal.

Tienshui fell easily. It is so damn hard to coordinate multiple hex attacks. The northern most attack was on a road and the eastern thrust across a rail. So I coordinated moves vs. combats moves as best I could. Thought I had it correct, but the 3 divs to the east came up 1 mile short. That was LUCKY, as I would have been overstacked in spite of my math. I Div (26th Mongolian) and the armor/arty carried the day with ease across the river.

I already have 3 divs accross the river and will soon start more aggressive attacking.

Not sure why he's moving into the mountains (or staying there). Possibly to threaten my LOC, but with stacking limits in all of these hexes, I have more than enough to counter any moves he may make.

Ground combat at Tienshui (81,38)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 19919 troops, 292 guns, 491 vehicles, Assault Value = 716

Defending force 5262 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 102

Japanese adjusted assault: 914

Allied adjusted defense: 43

Japanese assault odds: 21 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tienshui !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
181 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
4558 casualties reported
Squads: 72 destroyed, 58 disabled
Non Combat: 125 destroyed, 43 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (7 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 4
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
5th Armored Car Co
15th Tank Regiment
26th Division
9th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
23rd Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
43rd Chinese Corps
4th Group Army
6th Group Army



[image]local://upfiles/28990/A07BE03B96AA43019C87517703CEEDEF.jpg[/image]



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 2:33:27 PM)

Central/Southern China

And why I believe his forward deployment in the north may bite him.

The 25th Army has begun it's assault in the Southwest. 1 Division and 1 Brigade supported by armor and artillery. 2 more divisions are in route. Wuchow is the goal. From there, I can threaten both north straight into Chungking or continue towards Changsha. He'll need to disburse his units to cover both.

Wenchow is awaiting China Command.

Some definitely strange combat results. A Brigade crossed the river today. Armor was already in place, yet I torch his units. Nanning has been the target of airfield attacks for a few days now. Wondering if that caused the Chinese fatigue or the Armor crossing did it? The 56th Division will be crossing the river tomorrow and an corresponding attack for those units already across the river has been scheduled.

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3009 troops, 134 guns, 340 vehicles, Assault Value = 334

Defending force 17944 troops, 76 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 351

Japanese adjusted assault: 20

Allied adjusted defense: 369

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 18 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 76 (4 destroyed, 72 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
672 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Tank Regiment
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
25th Army
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
52nd Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
35th Group Army

[image]local://upfiles/28990/6B1B237B02384C3EADF7A370D1A83472.jpg[/image]



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 2:40:49 PM)

Somewhere Else!

Yes I finally have something to report somewhere else than China.

He's reinforcing Norfolk Island. He laid a CAP trap and nailed bout 10 Betties yesterday with Air Cobras. Today I responded with airfield attacks. KB was set to Naval/Airfield and chose the Airfield over the ships.

2 BB SAGS are in route to shut down the airfield and an Naval Guard will invade.

There's a good chance to destroy some of his planes. After the CAP Trap, which he seems quite good at, he grounded them today, as I usually respond with a sweep. I don't think he counted on the KB coming into play. The BB SAG should be hitting the field tomorrow morning, followed by another round from the KB and finally the invasion.

Afternoon Air attack on Norfolk Island , at 113,170

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 67
B5N2 Kate x 102
D3A1 Val x 69

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 49 damaged
P-400 Airacobra: 6 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 22
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 55


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Norfolk Island , at 113,170

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 71
B5N2 Kate x 110
D3A1 Val x 65

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 18 damaged
P-400 Airacobra: 4 destroyed on ground



[image]local://upfiles/28990/5A973D52C1B94980B0AE39294A8E33BC.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 2:42:53 PM)

Be aware that a North Oz move by Japan won't prevent the Allies from picking their axis of advance in 1943. See Mr. Kane vs Spidery....

However, having western Oz lets you search and see it coming hopefully and may cause the Allies to look to advance elsewhere. Whether that is good or bad is up to you...

I always pound Wenchow with ships to ease its capture. I believe I told you before that some elite Chinese start there, and that it does generate supply.

Keep moving forward in China, draining their supplies, and it will most likely be yours. Keep the Burma road cut, get the industrial production in the Changsha triangle, and push on to encircling Chungking. Destroyed Chinese will spawn there, overstack the base, and create a nightmare for the Allies.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 2:50:01 PM)

I've been pounding Wenchow every day for over a month. I allowed it to get to level 4 and it's a real pain in my side right now. Once China Command gets into range (it was focused on Tienshui and it now in route to Sinyang, I can start Wenchow (Operation Tojo Saves Face).



ny59giants -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 4:05:02 PM)

quote:

Be aware that a North Oz move by Japan won't prevent the Allies from picking their axis of advance in 1943. See Mr. Kane vs Spidery....


This is true. However, if Allies have the NW corner of Australia, then Japan needs to garrison a lot of territory from Java down to Timor. IMO, it make this threat axis more vulnerable.

Wenchow - In my current game vs John 3rd, he had three divisions there and devoted some BBs to hit the base. Eventually, he kicked me out, but the 100th Chinese Corp is still putting up a stiff resistance to NE of base as of May '42. At the time, he had me on the ropes from Kukong up to Changsha and had troops in Hengyang. If those troops had been further west when he did his big initial push, he could have overwhelmed me. IMO, keep a strong brigade at Wenchow now and use those divisions to make a push somewhere else. From your map, if you capture Pingsiang, then you can cut off those three bases in clear terrain near Changsha and possibly isolate Changsha.



vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 4:15:03 PM)

I'm not sure Tojo's fragile psyche could handle not taking Wenchow. Definitely something to consider. It's a true beotch.

NW OZ will be taken. I'm amassing initial troops (I have the 21st Div in Soerabaja) and a couple of regiments plus transports. The 1st Para Division is on Ambon (also just taken) and can either clean up all the other bases in the area that need taking or go forward with OZ. The Tinas have the range for a paradrop.

With Norfolk and Lord Howe, and taking Suva. I'll be done in SoPac. For NW OZ, I believe Koepang can cover a coastal invasion. At least that's my initial plan. The KB could easily shift, but with 4 assault divs and 1 mixed Bdg, slew of reinforcement naval guards now in Truk and the KB in the area, I'm considering an invasion of NE OZ as well. I'll lose the amphib bonus though.

I've decided to go ahead and take a pop at Manila and test it's strength. If it looks promising, I'll take it. If not, I'll transfer troops down for NW OZ and leave a couple of divs and the 65th army to starve them out. Naval bombardments of Manila are starting today.






Lowpe -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 4:26:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Wenchow - In my current game vs John 3rd, he had three divisions there and devoted some BBs to hit the base. Eventually, he kicked me out, but the 100th Chinese Corp is still putting up a stiff resistance to NE of base as of May '42. At the time, he had me on the ropes from Kukong up to Changsha and had troops in Hengyang. If those troops had been further west when he did his big initial push, he could have overwhelmed me. IMO, keep a strong brigade at Wenchow now and use those divisions to make a push somewhere else. From your map, if you capture Pingsiang, then you can cut off those three bases in clear terrain near Changsha and possibly isolate Changsha.


That is probably very sound advice.[&o] Speeding up the fall of China has a ton of positive impacts on the game for Japan.




vicberg -> RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls (7/18/2015 4:40:53 PM)

I've wondered what would happen if Japan took a historical perimeter, stopping at Solomons, Gilberts, no OZ, India, etc...and then just builds up. Conserve fuel and supply, build up massive air power, possibly even expand the economy for greater air production. Boring game (at least until 43), but enables Japan to use it's meager ENG and INF Units to defend and build up a tighter area with high forts, interlocking bases, etc...

When I look at the war historically, Japan *should* have focused on collapsing China long before deciding to attack the US, and open the LOC from Vietnam to Fusan. They launched an operation in 44 exactly for this purpose, and succeeded, but it was too late.

Unfortunately, this game doesn't accurately reflect the combat that occurred in China. It's too easy for Japan to collapse China. At least with this mod, you MUST dedicate additional troops to make it happen because of the massive garrison increase. I have 200 garrisons for Urmuchi and another 450 for Yenki. I'm afraid to see what's coming down the pike for the cities yet to be taken.

Interesting enough, the WITP board game (which I owned) did reflect combat in China. No matter how much firepower japan brought to a hex, only the top Chinese unit was affected. I forget how it worked for China attacking, but it wasn't good. In essence, China could defend like there's no tomorrow. They did little damage and caused little damage, but it took forever to chew through their units.






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