RE: Manila Falls (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/1/2016 7:04:49 PM)


I am sure we are butchering the official terms.

A location could be Tokyo.

Tokyo might have 4 distinct r&d facilities or factories and each one is expandable. Each could research a different plane.

Conventional wisdom held that the optimum size for a r&d facility is size 30.

You could build four size 30 research facilities and get 1 point of research each day assuming no engine bonus for each of the four factories/facilities. They are size 30 each.

You could build four size 60 research facilities and get 1 point of research each day assuming no engine bonus for each of the four factories/facilities. They are size 60 each. Olorin thought you could get 2 points of research per day without the engine bonus at a size 60 factory/facility. Not the case in this particular game.

Or they could produce planes in which case the first example produces 4 planes a day; and the second example produces 8 planes a day.



GetAssista -> RE: Manila Falls (4/1/2016 7:54:29 PM)

el lobo, manual is long outdated wrt R&D.
Size greater than 30 seems to not give you R&D benefits, and generates same 1 point per turn (2 points with engine bonus) as size 30 factory. Size less than 30 will give you points not every day.
Still it makes sense to have R&D factories higher than 30 if you intend to switch them to production on airframe arrival because all factories repair with the same proportional speed and you would have bigger factory ready for production w/o any loss in research



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/1/2016 10:17:29 PM)

Had the luxury of having the turn a little long this time, and it feels good to actually get a fair amount of stuff done.

Last of the ship conversions/upgrades underway for the West Coast operation.

A little extra care taken during the turn, but I am sure I missed things. I always do.



el lobo -> RE: Manila Falls (4/2/2016 12:44:27 PM)

Thanks for the enlightment Lowpe, GA.

Shame about the sixty, and the Manual.

Now back to an exciting game.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 5:38:56 PM)

Latter 1/3rd of October...where is the time fleeing too?

With Dawn, comes a Betty strike. I jiggered my naval search last two turns, not happy with it here, but what in the world are 16 Betties flying at on a ground hex?[&:]

But why only 16 when over 40 are tasked with the naval strike.

In a fit of interwar jealousy the Oscar's don't coordinate with the Navy.

Perhaps there are more strikes on the way.

Last turn, I was tempted to sweep the Allies here, but obviously didn't. My bad.

My Escorts really chew up the allied LRCAP....1 Zero lost for 6 Warhawks according to the combat summary.


[image]local://upfiles/44178/C75872F1AA794EC4AD123965E3D735B0.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 5:47:26 PM)

But thousands of miles away, with the dawn brings enemy fighters. Can bombers be far behind?

I know there are at least two and maybe 4 squadrons of 4E bombers at Noumea so I am not too scared here.

In fact, I am curious how my CAP does. Several days ago, I added Tojo IIa here with crackerjack pilots.

We have a altitude restriction, which I don't really like but I am having fun working with, figuring it out.

Today, the Tojo are at max altitude, which is 20K and are joined by two very small A6M5 Squadrons of 6 and 15. The Oscars are at 14K and more Zeroes at 9K. Zeroes have 10 percent rest. There are several sweeps, two pictured here.

The Oscars are at 20 % rest and are LRCAP Portland to boot at 20% as the Betties and Nells are firebombing - always good for a few points.

Anyhow, my fighters get the bounce on the sweepers and have at them.

Jocke is using a pretty heavy LRCAP too.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/DB2E0609180B4386BC93B90A2C950C32.jpg[/image]

The sweep pictured here is one squadron plus LRCAP. None survive. This is so critically important to accomplish.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 5:51:36 PM)

It is turning into a real dogfight here in the NorthPacific....

Portland is burning thanks to a 2 sentai coordinated bombing run at 12K. Burn, baby, burn!

But will they have a runway to land on?

Enemy bombers over the runways....the CAP is in excellent shape (if high), but the warning is good, and our pilots have a go at them.

Normally, I am very happy trading 2 IJ fighters for each Allied fighter, although I think I have figured out how to be better.





[image]local://upfiles/44178/D32795821618406681F4588633E1DB6B.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 5:52:48 PM)

Death and destruction rain down...as more enemy bombers are sighted.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/10CABE9CD87448FC859B23DEF1A4989C.jpg[/image]

The LRCAP seems to be gone...and we pounce.[sm=00000106.gif][sm=00000106.gif]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 5:59:14 PM)

Eventually the bombers are exhausted, but a few fighter squadrons show up and the CAP is worn down to nothing.

It was a beautiful day for a fight -- Clear Skies, although there is a rain front on the horizon.

The tallies are made. The kills accredited. Poor Allies, another very poor day for them...just another day for superiority of Japanese pilots and planes (although the A6M2 is obsolete--except for as an anti-bomber fighter).

I have got an excellent large Sentai of A6M5s on their way to replace the A6M2s...that will be another thorn in the Allies to contend with.

I am expecting Jocke to send in the CL and destroyers here soon...



[image]local://upfiles/44178/DC9F88D990F94D92BE4C481F79FD4F01.jpg[/image]

I didn't spot enemy subs in the port...so those pilots are gone.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 6:05:58 PM)

A severe disappointment along the coast of India. I did something wrong here.[sm=innocent0009.gif]

I blame my re-jiggered search. Only 1/3rd of the Betties fly, and the fly again in the afternoon, along with the Army Oscars, but once again only 1/3rd fly.

Attacks made on Prince of Wales, Repulse, 2 Cruisers, 1 Destroyer. All miss.

I will re-examine these guys.

Moderate rain in the morning, followed by heavy rain in the afternoon.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/516D6AE22EA0451A9DAACCA88890293E.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 6:08:01 PM)

I attack at Lanchow again, I neglected to take the troops off auto attack. My bad, but results are ok. They will stand down for 2-3 days and that should be that for Lanchow.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/70CAECA373EB47C693746B9EF5ADBAF3.jpg[/image]

160K stacking limit at Chungking.



ny59giants -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 6:11:43 PM)

Can you counter bomb the base(s) the B-17/24s came from? For the Allied player, its not quality pilot shortage, its always airframes. Many of the 'beast' will need days to repair. Kill them on the ground, if possible.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 6:18:10 PM)

Jocke obviously was planning a big attack here, on the road to Chittagong, but my troops move out of the hex in the early afternoon.

No bombardment by all those ships, you need really good DL on troops to pull that off, and he failed. I suspect there will be some comments in his AAR about that.[;)]

Well, he gets another shot at them now they are in Chittagong.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/178E084AD59B44A887C35F2D2F722A6B.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 6:21:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Can you counter bomb the base(s) the B-17/24s came from? For the Allied player, its not quality pilot shortage, its always airframes. Many of the 'beast' will need days to repair. Kill them on the ground, if possible.


They are outside of normal Tojo/A6M5 range, and I fear losing lots of bombers. Plus there is a lot of AA at these runways...so the short answer is no.[:)]

I guess I could hit them at night, but I don't want to be the first to resort to night bombing.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/3/2016 7:08:34 PM)

A present for Jocke.

Luckily she was empty, after having just delivered a fuel load.

Bad luck, what? I will check the Captain's stats in tracker and crew experience.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/02BE999CD634482898AD3D429BDE7E17.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/5/2016 9:33:14 PM)

Game was on hiatus for a few days as Jocke had visitors and I suffered from a nasty multiday power outage.

Back to the war.

Bay of Bengal:

Here I have 8 good combat destroyers and the Allies have two nasty battleship groups, the first Task Force Z, and the second the Queen Elizabeth, Valiant etc.

Dollars to donuts he will bombard Chittagong, packed with 100,000 troops and 300 mines. Although the Allies did suffer a scare by remaining in the coastal hex and being subject to two very small Betty strikes that absolutely ate up the P40 LRCAP.

I am throwing an 8 Iboat/RO boat screen up this turn.

If it were you how would you organize your 8 destroyers task force wise? Comments much appreciated. One big task force, multiple small task forces, 2 medium size task forces.

I plan to max night naval search, day naval search.

There is moderate rain coming down at Chittagong presently, with a forecast of thunderstorms. Moonlight is 71% and waxing.

Oh, one more question, would you send all the destroyers in Chittagong, or one hex to the west hoping to catch them after the bombardment?

I have 6 to 12 hours to decide.

Many thanks, and welcome back to the war![sm=00000055.gif]



[image]local://upfiles/44178/167A4CFBBF7246D999B65F7C591E4885.jpg[/image]

PS: I just realized everyone else is reading Jocke's AAR. If so, then talk about the merits of night time naval action of destroyers in bad weather. Big task forces or small? I am leaning small...but can be convince either way.



Canoerebel -> RE: Manila Falls (4/5/2016 9:40:32 PM)

"....moonlight is waxing..."

[&o]

Gracious! A literate and eloquent correspondent.

I remember exactly one question from the SAT (college entrance) examination I took at Palmetto High School in Miami, Florida, in December 1978. It was a vocabulary question for "wax."



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/5/2016 9:48:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"....moonlight is waxing..."

[&o]

Gracious! A literate and eloquent correspondent.

I remember exactly one question from the SAT (college entrance) examination I took at Palmetto High School in Miami, Florida, in December 1978. It was a vocabulary question for "wax."


Thanks, but what about the question at hand?

I think that given the nasty weather forecast, 4 squadrons of 2 destroyers sent en echelon makes the most sense. Straight into Chittagong, where any severely mauled destroyer could find sanctuary but also maximizing the number of potential torpedo launches.



Drakanel -> RE: Manila Falls (4/5/2016 10:01:30 PM)

To be fair, I read both AAR, so I don't comment too much on either :) But since you asked big vs small TFs....

I don't have much experience of the game, but it seems likely you will have low visibility. Keep in mind I'm rather inexperieced, but I'd do small squadrons to maximize intercept chances (more squadrons) and minimize the chances of collisions. Lack of visibility should also favor the most experienced crews (should be yours, right?)

Managing to put some nice torpedoes into those battleships would be very good for you.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/5/2016 10:16:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

To be fair, I read both AAR, so I don't comment too much on either :) But since you asked big vs small TFs....

I don't have much experience of the game, but it seems likely you will have low visibility. Keep in mind I'm rather inexperieced, but I'd do small squadrons to maximize intercept chances (more squadrons) and minimize the chances of collisions. Lack of visibility should also favor the most experienced crews (should be yours, right?)

Managing to put some nice torpedoes into those battleships would be very good for you.


I have only ever seen collisions with larger task forces, say over a dozen or more, and usually not combat task forces.

You aren't just whistling Dixie there, I need to damage his battleship fleet. I am hoping between some Long Lances, Iboats, RO Boats and Betties I can do some good. Debating about night naval attack, but the weather is really atrocious.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 3:51:01 PM)

Finished the turn, it will probably only be a couple of hours for Jocke to flip the turn I think.

Decided with multiple size 2 task forces for the run into Akyab, and I really maxed the naval search.

Running LRCAP off Akyab and range +1. I sent my fighters out of Akyab, since he might bombard there too.

I am sweeping Diamond Harbor, weather willing, to try and catch some bleeding ship LRCAP.

45 Betties on Naval attack along with 30 Nells. Range just short of Calcutta.

I am also sending in 2 destroyers back into the New Hebrides...

My surface raid at Hiva should be in place tomorrow and is not spotted.

Lots of action!

Changed my CAP settings at Coal Harbor, now two groups all set to 50% no rest, 7k and 9k. Flew out a Nell squadron, and flew in some more Oscar IIb. The A6M2 are at 7K along with some Oscar IIb, while the A6M5 and Tojo IIa are at 9K. I expect Lightnings today.[X(]



mind_messing -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 4:25:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Thanks, but what about the question at hand?

I think that given the nasty weather forecast, 4 squadrons of 2 destroyers sent en echelon makes the most sense. Straight into Chittagong, where any severely mauled destroyer could find sanctuary but also maximizing the number of potential torpedo launches.



As with everything else in this game, it depends.

In my experience, 4-6 tends to be the magic range for surface combat TF size that are going to fight a single battle and vanish. Any larger, you sometimes end up with ships that don't fire.

If you're planning for a series of protracted battles with multiple task forces, then larger is definitely better. Those ships that didn't get to fire in the first few encounters can expend their ammo, and there are more ships to break up the targeting routine.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 4:57:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Thanks, but what about the question at hand?

I think that given the nasty weather forecast, 4 squadrons of 2 destroyers sent en echelon makes the most sense. Straight into Chittagong, where any severely mauled destroyer could find sanctuary but also maximizing the number of potential torpedo launches.



As with everything else in this game, it depends.

In my experience, 4-6 tends to be the magic range for surface combat TF size that are going to fight a single battle and vanish. Any larger, you sometimes end up with ships that don't fire.

If you're planning for a series of protracted battles with multiple task forces, then larger is definitely better. Those ships that didn't get to fire in the first few encounters can expend their ammo, and there are more ships to break up the targeting routine.


I tend to agree with the caveat:

Fighting one battle and returning to port I think is a factor of mission and ammunition left plus other stuff. So the larger the task force, the more likely it is going to stick around and fight more because it carries more ammunition. Once the ammunition is depleted the orders to break combat come quite quickly, even before combat takes place.

It may also have to do with aggression, TF disposition settings, weather, detection levels, relative strength, damage, fuel levels. Sure I am missing a lot too, I bet -- I didn't even mention ops points remaining, but that might not influence it.

Anyway, I am experimenting with multiple small task forces -- MSTF. One, because of the weather, and two because I think they will retreat sooner and not extend the combat by rotating more ships into firing positions.

This game can't devolve down to who carries the biggest stick. There has to be a counter.

We shall see...





Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:07:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

To be fair, I read both AAR, so I don't comment too much on either :) But since you asked big vs small TFs....

I don't have much experience of the game, but it seems likely you will have low visibility. Keep in mind I'm rather inexperieced, but I'd do small squadrons to maximize intercept chances (more squadrons) and minimize the chances of collisions. Lack of visibility should also favor the most experienced crews (should be yours, right?)

Managing to put some nice torpedoes into those battleships would be very good for you.


I have only ever seen collisions with larger task forces, say over a dozen or more, and usually not combat task forces.

You aren't just whistling Dixie there, I need to damage his battleship fleet. I am hoping between some Long Lances, Iboats, RO Boats and Betties I can do some good. Debating about night naval attack, but the weather is really atrocious.



I've seen collisions in slightly smaller forces. It depends on naval skill.



Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:07:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Thanks, but what about the question at hand?

I think that given the nasty weather forecast, 4 squadrons of 2 destroyers sent en echelon makes the most sense. Straight into Chittagong, where any severely mauled destroyer could find sanctuary but also maximizing the number of potential torpedo launches.



As with everything else in this game, it depends.

In my experience, 4-6 tends to be the magic range for surface combat TF size that are going to fight a single battle and vanish. Any larger, you sometimes end up with ships that don't fire.

If you're planning for a series of protracted battles with multiple task forces, then larger is definitely better. Those ships that didn't get to fire in the first few encounters can expend their ammo, and there are more ships to break up the targeting routine.


I tend to agree with the caveat:

Fighting one battle and returning to port I think is a factor of mission and ammunition left plus other stuff. So the larger the task force, the more likely it is going to stick around and fight more because it carries more ammunition. Once the ammunition is depleted the orders to break combat come quite quickly, even before combat takes place.

It may also have to do with aggression, TF disposition settings, weather, detection levels, relative strength, damage, fuel levels. Sure I am missing a lot too, I bet -- I didn't even mention ops points remaining, but that might not influence it.

Anyway, I am experimenting with multiple small task forces -- MSTF. One, because of the weather, and two because I think they will retreat sooner and not extend the combat by rotating more ships into firing positions.

This game can't devolve down to who carries the biggest stick. There has to be a counter.

We shall see...





Bigger can be a lot better... [;)]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:28:22 PM)

Action in the New Hebrides.

This is the second time my ships have caught a single xakl bringing in supplies. I am not really a fan of single ship merchants used like this when there are ships present to add a second ship.

I can rationalize a single ship TF especially when ships are scarce -- or even a disperse command from a threatened TF.

But the Allies are really limited on APDs and such, and in the scope of things if Jocke resorts to single ships, I will try to take advantage of their greater vulnerability. I think it means I need to beef up my naval search more.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/508575D98A7942AE83F749580FF61AA6.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:44:24 PM)

North Pacific action is hot and heavy dogfights.

I tried something new, all fighters at 50% and split between 7K and 9K. I am flying off a damaged runway (30%).

[image]local://upfiles/44178/10ECAADDEBCB484A828CBFEE02674866.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:47:41 PM)

Losses are basically 1-1. I think I did better with the Tojo and A6M5 at 20k, but I am not sure how damaged runway, and my reduced number of fighters caused the fight to even out.

Very interesting.

Allies had one sweep of 50 Airacobras cooperating at a 10K sweep. I love it when the Altitudes aren't simply highest altitude and forget about it.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/3B1AEE1E1A2743E9A91BBD80F73E8B26.jpg[/image]

I did notice that my air controllers where sending all planes to 18-26K, so perhaps with an altitude restriction, right now in 1942, it pays to have the best fighter vs. fighter frames at 20K.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 5:50:59 PM)

Allies retreat their surface fleets without firing a shot, I watched them move away during the night phase. Very interesting move by the Allied High Command.

Oscars sweep Diamond Harbor but there is no bleeding CAP.

Allied ground troops moving away from Chittagong, who isn't bombed today either. Lots of Flak there... I guess he will move his big stack and clear the Ledo area first.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/FF79355DDD404CA0952DB9A697020B51.jpg[/image]

Those ships are in Calcutta. My 4 TF of 2 DD each went into an empty Chittagong, refueled and left.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/6/2016 7:06:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A present for Jocke.

Luckily she was empty, after having just delivered a fuel load.

Bad luck, what? I will check the Captain's stats in tracker and crew experience.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/02BE999CD634482898AD3D429BDE7E17.jpg[/image]


Correction, she was loaded.[sm=fighting0043.gif]

Here is the tracker history....I just lost another Yusen N to this. Out of the blue 49 fires and gone. Fully loaded.

This is now the third ship I have lost this way, that I know of.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/FFA21DF773D14C45AAA76AC98AC23BC3.jpg[/image]



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