RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (Full Version)

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Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 7:48:14 PM)

Sure, why not. Disorganize any ship.



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:15:33 PM)

On a 1, the intercept succeeds. The CA's stay put in the 4-box.

3 BB's and a CA also sail to West Med. I decline the intercept and they stay in the 2-box. 2 CL and CP go to the 0-box. BB to Bay of Bengal 3-box. 2 CA to SE Indian Ocean 1-box. Trans with Can Inf and Amph dock in Hull.

Areas available for naval combat.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/993F9BBBD3984EAFBDE799CD804221FD.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:19:34 PM)

The Allies decline the lot. Do the Axis wish to try the West Med?

[image]local://upfiles/47730/8BC9B69C76BE438EBDDD919FDEC65318.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:21:06 PM)

Yes please, pick a ship to be disorganized.



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:40:20 PM)

No ship needed to be disorganised due to the earlier intercept.

Searches Axis 5, Allies 2. Both successful. Allies use 2 of their 3 surprise points to increase damage.

Allies lose a CA, a BB is damaged and 1 aborted.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/66A8F8311F804D68A7667BFB8ACFC928.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:42:22 PM)

How would the Italians like to apportion their damage?

[image]local://upfiles/47730/7637B4680C194CBF929076687D0E364E.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:44:19 PM)

X on BB Vittorio Veneto
D's on both other BB's
Italian will abort after this round to La Spezia. German FTR to Genoa.

Good fight, thank you [&o]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 8:56:03 PM)

Italian losses. The ships abort as instructed.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/3A83FDB13CEC41B3B15796CC1B520447.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 9:03:08 PM)

Soviet ground-strike doesn't come off.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/8EA30694C1404810A0D58958BFB135EB.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 9:26:52 PM)

Nationalists rail Chiang further south and the units continue their moves in that direction.

Communists take over Seoul as the Soviets leave.

Soviets bring a couple of Inf into the "line" in the south and rebase 2 Lnd towards the Urals.

No reorg.

On a 3, turn continues (just).

Weather roll is a 7.







[image]local://upfiles/47730/4BDBB79B13544916866AF1A2BA10CFD7.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 9:33:22 PM)

USSR Southern "front".

[image]local://upfiles/47730/4873D005FDD0405BB82155AA512DDBA1.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/17/2016 9:36:14 PM)

Southern China.

[image]local://upfiles/47730/73367440E137442EA3AFC25C277331B3.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 7:58:30 PM)

S/O 41 Axis 9

No DoW

Germany and Italy combined, Japan naval.

German submarines from Kiel: 2x North Atlantic box 2, 3x Faroes Cap box 0 (to rebase them to France).

Japanese CA to South China Sea box 0, loaded with ENG from Manila. CVL (no planes) to Bering sea and CV (no planes) to Southeast Indian Ocean, mission: initiate combat. One CP from South China Sea returns to Tokyo.

Axis initiates naval combat in following sea areas.

[image]local://upfiles/39586/2C34BD83C51545E3A2CFED9244FCE154.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:04:42 PM)

Bering Sea: Axis 10, Allies 2. No combat.
Southeast Indian Ocean: Axis 6, Allies 9. No combat.
Hawaiian Islands: Axis 9, Allies 4. No combat.
North Atlantic: Axis 4, Allies 6. No combat.

Axis get points from trying...



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:12:27 PM)

Germany rails INF from Sevastopol to southern front, close to front line.

Germany makes two land attacks. Attacking HQ support is used in Krasnodar (+10).

Do USSR want to use their fighter as bomber? Italian fighter can intercept.


[image]local://upfiles/39586/C5EF61A59C684EC380564D271221AF28.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:14:54 PM)

Why not, let's give it a go.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:21:21 PM)

USSR fighter is aborted back to Tiflis.

[image]local://upfiles/39586/388F626F932E40EB96F54B7DDF15DD7A.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:22:21 PM)

I believe USSR chooses Assault in city?



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:23:33 PM)

Yes please.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:25:27 PM)

Weak attack from Germany.

[image]local://upfiles/39586/FAD82ADF08CB4F3AA3433D34409A5FB6.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:31:49 PM)

Another weak attack. USSR chooses a unit to be destroyed.

[image]local://upfiles/39586/E14F8CA0164F4464BD66720B214ABC8E.jpg[/image]



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:32:26 PM)

The Mil, thanks.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:39:15 PM)

Germany rebases FTR in southern front by few hexes, FTR in France by two hexes and FTR from Hungary to Germany.

Turn ends on a 3. One partisan in USSR.



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/18/2016 8:57:56 PM)

The partisan goes to Gorki.

US adds 1 chit to Ge/It entry and 2 to Jap. US passes War Appropriations. A 7 sees 1 chit move from Jap entry to tension.



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/19/2016 6:06:51 PM)

I'm going to wrap this game up as a conclusive Axis victory.

Although the Allies initially did pretty well against Italy and Japan is weaker and lost China, the Germans are already in a pretty unbeatable position (in terms of defeated by M/J 45) and this will only improve with the imminent alignment of Turkey.

The Turkish army, perhaps with a bit of support, could easily move on Iraq, Persia and/or, following a Vichy collapse, down into Syria and beyond. Stopping this would take Allied resources and, more importantly, eat up time while the German army consolidates and builds up its defences. The Italians and Japanese would also benefit from a lessening of forces that might be directed their way.

Well done Mayhemizer. A good and interesting contest.

To finish as I started.

[sm=00000945.gif]



Barbuesque -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/19/2016 6:45:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

I'm going to wrap this game up as a conclusive Axis victory.

Although the Allies initially did pretty well against Italy and Japan is weaker and lost China, the Germans are already in a pretty unbeatable position (in terms of defeated by M/J 45) and this will only improve with the imminent alignment of Turkey.

The Turkish army, perhaps with a bit of support, could easily move on Iraq, Persia and/or, following a Vichy collapse, down into Syria and beyond. Stopping this would take Allied resources and, more importantly, eat up time while the German army consolidates and builds up its defences. The Italians and Japanese would also benefit from a lessening of forces that might be directed their way.

Well done Mayhemizer. A good and interesting contest.

To finish as I started.

[sm=00000945.gif]


This game is going into unfamiliar territory given my limited experience with situations I would assess as lopsided on one side or the other in every single theater of operation.

Obviously, Germany about to align Turkey and pushing into Asia in 1941 is very tough for the USSR. But still Germany doesn't have the assets to finish the russians in the near future. And I thought 1941 in terms of rolls, weather and turn lengths couldn't really have gone much better for Russia, even though the germans made lots of progress.

On the other hand, the japanese situation is a disaster, and the italians are hard pressed despite recent minor allied reversals in the mediterranean.

It's true that the turks will pour into the middle east- but the middle east just isn't that important. The threat to Italy mostly come from Gibraltar, Malta and Sardinia. The threat to Japan comes from the east. The axis will gain a little oil and that's about it.

I would have thought that these situations somewhat balanced each other.



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/19/2016 8:11:13 PM)

I agree, the Russians are some way from being finished but they don't pose much of a threat. They have 19 corps sized units, 2 HQ's an Art and an Inf Div (plus some air assets). Two of those corps are cut off and will be pretty easy kills at some point. The winter turns will see a lessening of destruction and allow them to recover some strength but the Axis will grow too.

Come the spring and summer turns, if the Axis can keep a reasonable rate of attrition going, that threat would continue to be neutered. An alternative Axis strategy may be to consolidate gains, hunker down behind a defensive line with armoured reserves placed to counter any initial breakthroughs. I learnt in my first AAR how difficult the Axis can be to shift if they manage this.

Turkey and the Middle East would be a side show but it puts the southern border, a long way from the homelands, giving plenty of space to trade for time. Granted it's a big coastline to defend but I'd be pretty happy as Axis player to see the Allied amphibious forces committed so far away.

CW has 28 corps sized units plus a couple of HQ's and Divs but they are scattered and at least 2 of the 3 corps in Albania will be easy kills. It needs time to build the sea-lift and assemble the forces to invade continental Europe. Time in which the Axis get stronger.

The US should shortly be in the war but, again, needs time to build up and assemble the assault forces.

Before any invasions can be contemplated, the Allies need to establish air and naval superiority (the former leading to the latter). Over the Med and Pacific this is still being contested and it is only now the Allies are starting to get units of reasonable quality to do this.

Everything takes time. Time in which the Axis can conserve and increase their strength. Perhaps I'm being too gloomy and defeatist, given it's only S/O 41, but I just don't see a great come-back to defeat the Euro-Axis by M/J 45. Perhaps the Japs may be defeated by J/A 45 (or earlier) but then it's the Europe or Japan first debate and balancing (compromising) the forces for each theatre.

I think one of the great qualities of this game is how it has given me an understanding of how these very issues dictated the strategy and timing of the Allies in WW2. In WW2 it was 43 before the Italian invasions and 44 for D-day. In the real conflict, the Germans were broken on the Russian front, which is a long, long way from happening in this game!

If anyone would like to continue the game to prove my analysis wrong, I would be happy to post the save file and be intrigued to follow the AAR.



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/20/2016 3:56:42 AM)

Some thoughts:
1. Japan. Although the builds are listed, I cant really compare to what's available currently or future since I don't have the game...and I cant go on memory. But its my thinking that its not disaster for Japan to lose Manchuria and retreat out of China (contesting any factory cities/resources on or near the coast). Japan has Vlad, and I'm kinda surprised that Japan lost Korea. But concentrating on naval builds and key ground units for an over all naval strategy I think is a valid strategy...especially punishing CW as much as possible and perhaps making way to Persia/Egypt. Also, its possible Germany could be super successful in USSR and reach the Pacific...or maybe China? This Asian map actually offers some interesting possibilities I'd like to explore/exploit as the Japs that I was semi-successful with on the board game map.

2. USA. Never underestimate the power of the USA. Things can look bleak for the Allies in 1941+, but until you have played this game out and have experienced what the US can do...it can be amazing. Its a lot of fun playing the US!

3. CW. I really thought Mayhemizer might have made a mistake on his early DOW on USSR because of the CW position in the Med. I was not really able to analyze what the CW had available...was just extrapolating from memory of its potential. I like to have a lot of lift as the Allies. With the Germans invading USSR, I would have begun my invasion of Italy and tried to force as many Germans units back from USSR to central Europe/Med.

4. France/CW 1939 Fall Gelb. I believe in heavy CW commitment to France/west front...even to the detriment of other things (Egypt, etc...). All hands on deck!

5. USSR. The threat from Germany was great (obviously from the results). I would have rushed everything back to Europe. I would not have even started anything with Japan until I could see a '42 Barb or sitz. Also, later on in the southern defense of USSR...post Rostov...I would not have defended behind the river lines in clear with the Germans sitting on O-chits...I would have retreated to the Mtn's and abandoned Krasnodar/Stavropol, etc...maybe leaving a cheap unit there for delay.

You guys should switch sides now?



AllenK -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/20/2016 9:18:35 AM)

Hi JT, thanks for the comments.

Japan, I agree, far from being a walk over. Key for the Allies would be cutting off the oil and strat bombing the stockpile.

CW were on the back foot right from the start with the X and D on two Trans and, as a result, the loss and shatter of two of the BEF. That was impulse 3 of the game. No commitment (big or small) of the BEF until N/D 39 and by that time Fall Gelb was well into France so their presence would have been academic. My loss of the Dutch Trans through a stupid placement meant CW sea-lift has been hampered ever since.

Regarding the Med, in an earlier post you commented on a risky attack I made against the Italians in Africa as indicating haste. I didn't comment at the time as the haste was to clear Africa then invade Albania to align Yugoslavia in 1940, with the Germans in USSR and Central Europe undefended. It so nearly worked but the weather packed up on the impulse the Albania invasion was ready to go and stayed rubbish through to around M/A 41. All through that winter I was hoping for just one fine impulse in the Med but it didn't come. By the time I could mount it, Mayhemizer had been able to position defending forces. I went ahead as it still served some purpose in tying up units that would otherwise have been in USSR.

USSR was a gamble from the off. It was partly done to ease pressure on the Communists. With a better Chinese set-up, as was discussed at the time, that decision may well have been delayed. The second reason was I suspected Mayhemizer wanted to invade Spain and take Gib before turning east. The USSR DoW on Japan certainly disrupted that plan but ultimately it cost the game. I thought I could have kept the Pact going to the autumn of 40, after which I wasn't sure whether Mayhemizer would invade in poor weather. I contributed to the downfall as some units that I thought were part of the garrison turned out not to be, by which time war had been declared and it was too late. Those units could have tipped the balance.

It didn't help that I advanced down the wrong axis in Manchuria so what should have been relatively swift dragged on.

I don't think USSR going to war with Japan is necessarily a bad strategy but is probably best kept in reserve until just after the Germans DoW Spain and are enmeshed there.

I'm not sure about your point on defending mountains rather than river lines. Mountains double the defence, rivers halve the attack, which works out the same. Granted rivers can sometimes be bypassed or out-flanked.

The All Pass to end the previous turn, while the Med was OOS and CW unable to reorganise the air and navy, wasn't exactly one of my sharpest moments. The dice gods had a real laugh at that one when they served up the 1 that would have ended the turn if everyone had moved [8|].

Leaving Midway undefended ......

Way too many mistakes!!!




WIF_Killzone -> RE: AllenK vs Mayhemizer III: Oil be back. (2/20/2016 11:25:39 AM)

Well I certainly enjoyed the carnage. Revenge tastes sweet eh Mayhemizer.

Russia is key, if the player get demoralized there, it's usually a quit. Those devastating TRS losses early for the allies was the straight jab to the nose, Russia was the right hook to the jaw. It was interesting to see China kick the Japs in the balls though :)

Not sure the commitment by Russia against Japan was worth it, if like what happened, resulted in throwing in the towel.

Only continuing the game would resolve the question of whether the grand strategy would have worked in the end.



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