2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (Full Version)

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CapnDarwin -> 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/12/2016 1:46:26 AM)

Grab it while it's hot! Please read the included What's New PDF to see all the fixes, enhancements and additions made for this release.

You can find the file here on our Website: http://www.ontargetsimulations.com/?page_id=28

The package will go to Matrix for Steam Beta and Members Club downloads on Monday the 14th.

Enjoy the show!! [X(]



Stimpak -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/12/2016 2:20:28 AM)

Didn't exactly catch the helo bug fix. Was it referring to the computer player's handling of the heloes, or the helo's unit AI going defensive? I did note in 2.0.11.1 that my hinds were rather reluctant to shoot at anything.



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/12/2016 2:22:58 AM)

AI aggression, objective selection, standoff range and pathing to objective all got an overhaul for improved play.



JohnOsb -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/12/2016 3:18:25 PM)

The maps are nice that is added with this beta.



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/12/2016 3:52:40 PM)

William working some overtime! [&o][&o]



Stimpak -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/13/2016 2:25:12 AM)

I'm noting a lot smoother performance in this version.

One (annoying) bug spotted causes a unit to display the "You must stay within your setup boundaries" error message to appear when a unit is simply selected, even if it's deep within it's setup boundary.
Units are still very squishy. I'm not sure what's causing this, the only suspects are the LoS bug fix (Which, according to the manual, was only stopping attacks that shouldn't happen from occuring) or the HEAT change. In versions up to 2.0.10, shots that would kill maybe 2-3 tanks are now wiping out 7-8, in the same respective conditions. Soviet tanks also seem to fire their ATGMs less often.

From 2.0.11.1, Helicopters seem to behave appropriately and have remembered how to operate their weapons now.



clodhellmer -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/13/2016 12:29:33 PM)

SAme for me, Stimpak. Playing my Hells crossroad scenario with the new patch. My brits killed with a platoon between 3 and seven tanks per volley. But i think the stacking bug is gone.



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/13/2016 2:41:56 PM)

Stimpak, noted on the message thing. I'll pass that to Rob and see if we can fix that before the official release of things in a few weeks. As for squishiness, probably going to see that for both sides in the 2000-5000m range with the bugs out of the code that left kills in that range for direct fire in the weeds and it should have been much better (up closer of course). ATGMs from tanks has not been touched, but the AI may now see a good chance to use its gun and take that shot over a missile launch (again from the close end of the long range spectrum). Helos and even attacking ground units should be pathing better now.



Rincovsk -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/15/2016 12:40:02 AM)

Capn Darwin, same for me as well regarding the squishiness thing. I do play mostly with WP, so I can say I can feel it. I am glad that the Hinds crew did some weapons fire training and snap check drills for 11.1 version and are again able to give some headache to NATO units...:)!



Lowlaner2012 -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/15/2016 8:55:34 AM)

I usually play as NATO and felt that before Soviet tanks were to hard to kill, even although they were in the open and I was dug in and in good cover, they tended to wipe me out, gameplay seems much more balanced now, and the hinds are scary, just like they are supposed to be :-)


Good job on the patch guys.



clodhellmer -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/15/2016 9:45:42 AM)

I noticed that my HQ are more often under art fire. I have to move them quit a lot. Same for my platoons. Sometimes they have been hit by art without being in contact with the enemy. But I noticed that the counter art are firing a lot of missions too. Is it possible to see how good the counter art mission was? Losses or anything like that? And also no more stacking! Good Job, guys!



JohnOsb -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/15/2016 4:18:05 PM)

I noticed that as well, when the HQs is in a hold posture, arty seems to be more then when in a screen mode.



RangerX3X -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/15/2016 11:25:19 PM)

Just a quick observation regarding the beta on Steam: you have the following posted on the OTS website “If you are not comfortable with unzipping files to overwrite existing files (especially with the Steam version of the game)…”

That was not my experience. With Steam if you right click the game in your Library and then select Properties, on the BETAS tab if you change the drop down to Beta - Open Beta and select OK (I didn’t have to enter a code).

The game will update to the beta install and once the download is complete, the game launches as 2.0.11.1BS. There was nothing that needed to be unzipped (at least what was visible to me).



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/16/2016 12:23:20 AM)

RangerX3X, that statement was for those wanting to use the download from our site to do it manually. If you were doing the Beta on Steam, Steam automatically loads the files. The will be the same with Beta 11.2 that Matrix will be getting up some time this week on Steam and the Members Club.



Rincovsk -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/16/2016 1:07:00 AM)

[:D] No really complaints here from my side. This game is getting better and better. Indeed a great job and effort from the devs. Squishy and all, for me, means more careful thinking, more challenge and more fun as a WP player. The bear fears no one! [:D] Cheers.



markcab -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/16/2016 10:10:36 PM)

Patch increasing the accuracy of long range shots? Hell, I figured the opposite would happen. I've seen 4.5km shots being made regularly!



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/16/2016 11:10:57 PM)

The fix had to do with direct fire attacks. ATGMs and other systems were fine. In some cases it was less of an issue with NATO units as the superior fire control could adjust the "effective" range of the shot out of the black hole. The bigger impact of the fix is giving the Soviets and other platforms the correct hit curves across the entire shooting range.



Stimpak -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 12:28:34 AM)

Soviet units suffer somewhat more casualties at range and otherwise are unchanged.

Things get wacky in close however.
During one alarming test, I sent a battalion of T-80Us at default settings versus a single M1A1 company at default settings. Both sides were inside forest (90% cover), Americans screening versus T-80Us assaulting.
The M1A1 HQ, with 2 Abrams, wiped out the entire T-80U company (TD, so 10) in a single volley. All T-80Us were recorded as "Fallen out".
Another T-80U company suffered 7 losses on the initial volley against an M1A1 platoon, 3 destroyed and 4 fallen out.
The automatic 70% game ender kicked in not long after, giving the Americans a 79% rating. The Soviets only claimed 4 Tanks and an M113A1.

Mechanized Infantry units seem to suffer the most. I've witnessed a few occasions where a single volley of either Tank fire or Artillery would destroy all 13 BMP-2s of an MRC.

I'm not sure exactly what is going on here. Assuming each "Fire line" represents a single volley, then shouldn't 4 tank guns only claim a maximum of 4 kills? Perhaps what's occuring is that the amount of units being destroyed is alright, but more are falling out than usual. It would seem that the HE from the Abrams' guns (And MGs) could be causing the extra fall-outs. I don't mean to sound like a whiner here, but something seems off.



Rincovsk -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 12:43:16 AM)

Interesting points stimpak...I have to agree with your suspicion. I will try to do some tests myself as well.



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 2:23:34 AM)

Stimpak, do you have the scenario file for the 2 tanks killing 10 in a single shot? That should not happen. Ever. Let me know.



cbelva -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 2:40:27 AM)

I have not seen 2 tanks killing 10 units but I have noticed that when a unit catches another unit in ambush the kills go up as compared to other times. But as Capn D said, we will take a look at it.

I have explained this before, but now seems like a good time to explain this again. Getting the combat model right is very difficult--esp. dealing with a war that was never fought. There are multiple opinions as to how combat should unfold. Small corrections on our part in the code can have disastrous effects on the combat model, so ever correction we make, every bug we squash, has to be examined as to the effect on combat. And we have learned that we won't please everyone. For everyone that believe that the combat model favors NATO and that the Soviets are too squishy, there is someone who believes that the model is too much in favor of the Soviets and that the Soviets are killing too many NATO. This was a war that was never fought and the truth is, no one knows for sure what would have happened and how NATO equipment would have stood up to the Soviets'.

We look at all reports, but we will make decisions on how we feel combat would have unfolded. This is something we have debated and continue to debate within the development team.



Stimpak -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 2:41:34 AM)

You'll need my Bad Segeberg map installed since it occurred on that map.

EDIT: There's no post-event autosave, sadly, I only have the pre-action save. I have also forgotten other small modifications made: To my memory this was removing LWRs from all tanks save the T-80U/UK since I didn't recall them being in widespread use until the debut of early soft-kill APS in the 90's.
Pregame SAV: http://puu.sh/nJjqZ/210adb38cd.sav



Rincovsk -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 3:36:49 AM)

Thanks for your explanation cbelva. I completely understand the complexity. Simulate reality with events that never happened is a huge challenge. At the bottom line you are presenting as well a point of view and a perspective of that what if history. Again, this game is fantastic and is getting even better with the team hard work and care. I have learnt a lot about modern war and its machines with this game as well as how deadly and devastating it can be. Cant imagine how terrible would it be to be involved in actions such as this. Best!



battlerbritain -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 9:41:33 AM)

Would it be an idea to setup a test scenario of conditions you'd like to test?

Have various conditions set at the start of the scenario so that you only have to let the game do 1 turn and look at the results.

Come up with a matrix of unit types vs unit types, at different ranges and with targets in different terrains.

Then run scenario a number of times, say 10 times, getting a report after each run and then averaging the results.

Do that for different builds/software models. See what you think.



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 11:40:37 AM)

Battlerbritain, we already do that now and we have a number of other test cases that we use to check AI and other combat functions. Charles has done a ton of runs using basically the scheme you outline. [8D]



Lowlaner2012 -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 11:51:34 AM)

Did those tests show that the combat model was OK in the beta?

Thanks



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 11:55:58 AM)

Yes they did. A quick look last night at the scenario being used appears to be a corner case with the range, flanking, and rate of fire that produces the high kill counts. We will be looking at it more over the next couple days.



Lowlaner2012 -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 12:03:00 PM)

Thanks for the quick reply and hard work... Im looking forward to hearing the results..

And by scenario you mean stimpacks scenario?



CapnDarwin -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 1:06:11 PM)

Yes, his scenario. It has the fight between tank units with good readiness and skill kicking off at 500m. That's auto kill range, flank bonuses kick in as does a close combat rate of fire boost. Creates a turkey shoot and if NATO goes first they get shots off that kill everything in the hex. I would state a realistic result similar to 73 Easting in Gulf War 1.



Stimpak -> RE: 2.0.11.2 Open Beta Released!!! (3/17/2016 5:31:49 PM)

So... the results are intended?

I'm going to need more clarification on what that colored line means, then. Does it mean engagement within a specific time frame, or a single discharge of the platoon's weapons?



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