Turn 119, Sept 23, 1943 (Full Version)

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topeverest -> Turn 119, Sept 23, 1943 (12/31/2017 10:57:29 PM)

2 more turns until mud. Built 12 brigades (12 more to build)

1. Russians suffer stinging defeat in Orel pincer. Enemy wins 10 consecutive low odds combats and repulses three tank armies with heavy casualties, effectively ending the blitz. DRADT!!!!!
2. Gradual progress in effort to reach Lake Ladoga. Rail is effectively cut. Material progress on eastern end at lake Onega. This attack probably doesn't get to Ladoga by mud season
3. Pushing west from Svoboda curve on the Don, Russian units force the Tikhaya Sosna river at the Don, which is the last material river to get to Kursk. Rail into Donets Don river basin is partially opened, with rail engineers doing their thing. Will take about 4 weeks to complete that conversion.
4. Steppe Front pushing due west to Belgorod and Kharkov in slow progress. Eventually will have to contend with Oskol river, but that will be later
5. Russian forces clear out the area between the Kalitva, Derkul, and Donets. First bridgehead across the Donets secured




topeverest -> Plans for the southern theaters (12/31/2017 11:09:22 PM)

Here is a pictograph of the plans up to and the beginning of the winter combat season. Note the change in how I will deploy the Caucuses front.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/0C0950EF35994DADA4DFD265966CA246.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Orel Disaster Recap. (12/31/2017 11:20:06 PM)

pictured is the aftermath of the German counterattack that decimated three Russian armor armies and a cavalry army, and 4 infantry divisions. I still don't know how the enemy won 10 consecutive low odds combats.

A few lessons here, as I tried new tactics and certainly they weren't perfect. I saw an opportunity to pierce the line and capture couple hexes worth of units, so I took it. The initial attacks worked just fine. But I made a mistake not expanding the breach to three hexes wide so I could pour in ample infantry units and seal the gains. That said, I had 20-40 defense factors in my units that were mauled. Second, I still don't have enough corps in that sector to really may a huge difference.

The enemy also used rails and armor to his advantage. SO he did have the answer to my attack plans for sure.

lessons learned. I wont use those tactics again, and I am confident that as long as the enemy uses linear defense, I will be able to make a breakthrough that sticks.

Still ---- it was a stinging defeat by all measures available. 185 to 1075 AFV lost. 10 consecutive combats lost. Several routed and demoralized units that make them unusable before the mud season.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/D60B1347F59649D486814C7B7987F16B.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> RE: Orel Disaster Recap. (12/31/2017 11:30:04 PM)

"Put me back in coach!"



[image]local://upfiles/26803/55E56A0B6C89496EA8C9FCA2F2E2CDDC.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Air war update (12/31/2017 11:38:00 PM)

Germany is losing masses of aircraft in ground support and interdiction. Soon enough he will have to back away from these, once his reserves of spare airframes are gone.

Germany has lost 21%, 8%, and 12% of total airframes in the game each of the last three turns.


[image]local://upfiles/26803/4DD73496FF9D45F88F91CFE7CEB715F5.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Strentgth Update (12/31/2017 11:41:31 PM)

Here is updated Strength.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/4403C96617404BA797F2A4CCCC938925.jpg[/image]




M60A3TTS -> RE: Strentgth Update (1/6/2018 4:28:32 PM)

Everything in this AAR is pretty darn good except for one thing, the execution.

The Lake Ladoga offensive. I assume that Leningrad is a part of this, otherwise one can only guess what strategic objective is. You sent your cavalry corps off to support an attack where you don't have much in the way of rifle corps. If you intend to take Leningrad, you will want to have at least one rifle army of guards corps just for that task.

The failure at Orel was a given. Tank corps left unsupported by infantry, cavalry or mechanized formations are easy wins for the Germans. Historically, Soviet tank corps were often hammered by the Germans because of the lack of supporting units in these corps. They were effectively just a blob of tanks, and tanks without infantry support do not fare well. It goes towards the whole concept of combined arms action. If those cavalry corps you sent off to the Ladoga action had been in the same hexes as the tank corps, you would have been better off. It also demonstrates why you want to focus heavily on getting those cavalry corps to guards. They get better movement rates in enemy territory and ergo can better support your tank corps as they exploit the gaps that are created by rifle corps assaults. Now in November the tank corps finally get the upgrade they so badly need and become less reliant on cavalry and mechanized support, but you're not quite there yet.

The Boguchar-Belgorod Offensive will be somewhat hampered buy the fact that you will not have good supply there as you do not have a functional rail line in the immediate vicinity. It too appears to have a tank corps component but again no cavalry.

The Don-Donets sector is a depressing sight. Guards rifle corps near Rostov just wasting away, apparent assaults across major rivers with no real strategic goal, no exploitation forces slightly behind the lines so as not to suffer from fatigue are the more obvious shortcomings.

You are certainly still in a position to win the game, but the clock is now ticking. You can't afford to see these breakthrough attempts thrown back at this stage. Focus on the basics.

Identify where you need to get to.

Identify what you need to get you there.

To push along your important routes, you need guards rifle corps with sappers for the initial attack. Here is where the artillery and rocket on map units are the biggest help.

When the enemy retreats, send in the IL-2s for additional losses. Hit them again with another infantry or cavalry-tank attack, force them to retreat again.

When the enemy retreats again, bomb them again. The German rifle division cannot stand up to this sort of treatment indefinitely. Push in your cavalry-tank forces and hit them again if you can...and so on.

Once all this seems logical, you'll be solid in any future games.









topeverest -> RE: Strentgth Update (1/12/2018 1:43:42 AM)

Agreed.

For some time I have felt disappointed by my deployment decisions and offensive intentions for 43 summer offensive.
1. the initial blitz was poorly designed and attacked in an area that has no exploitable supply.
2. I was grossly optimistic in the Russian abilities to push the enemy
3. I tried a number of bad tactics within a broader strategy for broad front attacks. The latter is a good idea, but how I did it was pretty poor
4. I hadn't used my newly equal air force to full effect
5. My plan to get to Lake Ladoga was a poor use of troops
And the list goes on.

I certainly can say that I am learning by doing things I hope never to repeat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Everything in this AAR is pretty darn good except for one thing, the execution.

The Lake Ladoga offensive. I assume that Leningrad is a part of this, otherwise one can only guess what strategic objective is. You sent your cavalry corps off to support an attack where you don't have much in the way of rifle corps. If you intend to take Leningrad, you will want to have at least one rifle army of guards corps just for that task.

The failure at Orel was a given. Tank corps left unsupported by infantry, cavalry or mechanized formations are easy wins for the Germans. Historically, Soviet tank corps were often hammered by the Germans because of the lack of supporting units in these corps. They were effectively just a blob of tanks, and tanks without infantry support do not fare well. It goes towards the whole concept of combined arms action. If those cavalry corps you sent off to the Ladoga action had been in the same hexes as the tank corps, you would have been better off. It also demonstrates why you want to focus heavily on getting those cavalry corps to guards. They get better movement rates in enemy territory and ergo can better support your tank corps as they exploit the gaps that are created by rifle corps assaults. Now in November the tank corps finally get the upgrade they so badly need and become less reliant on cavalry and mechanized support, but you're not quite there yet.

The Boguchar-Belgorod Offensive will be somewhat hampered buy the fact that you will not have good supply there as you do not have a functional rail line in the immediate vicinity. It too appears to have a tank corps component but again no cavalry.

The Don-Donets sector is a depressing sight. Guards rifle corps near Rostov just wasting away, apparent assaults across major rivers with no real strategic goal, no exploitation forces slightly behind the lines so as not to suffer from fatigue are the more obvious shortcomings.

You are certainly still in a position to win the game, but the clock is now ticking. You can't afford to see these breakthrough attempts thrown back at this stage. Focus on the basics.

Identify where you need to get to.

Identify what you need to get you there.

To push along your important routes, you need guards rifle corps with sappers for the initial attack. Here is where the artillery and rocket on map units are the biggest help.

When the enemy retreats, send in the IL-2s for additional losses. Hit them again with another infantry or cavalry-tank attack, force them to retreat again.

When the enemy retreats again, bomb them again. The German rifle division cannot stand up to this sort of treatment indefinitely. Push in your cavalry-tank forces and hit them again if you can...and so on.

Once all this seems logical, you'll be solid in any future games.











topeverest -> October 14, 1943 Turn 122 (1/12/2018 1:51:49 AM)

First turn of mud.

Within the context of my shortcomings, the end of the combat season actually was modestly encouraging.
1. The enemy broke up in the extreme north, and Russian forces pushed to within Petrozavodysk, only a few hexes from the Murmansk map edge supply source. The enemy also was generally pushed back at many points along that line down past Cherepovets - Leningrad rail. It is 3 to 4 hexes to reach Lake Ladoga and the center rail is cut. 4 hexes to the Volkov
2. Russians clear the area between the Derkul and Adair rivers in the last turn as enemy forces weaken, trapping enemy divisions and forcing them to surrender. In this case, I was able to do this for two reason: supply finally was pushed down the rail from the northeastern Don crossing, and the enemy was poorly deployed.
3. Ruskies firmly push across the Donets near the salient
4. 30 hexes were taken in the last summer turn.




topeverest -> Mud Goals (1/12/2018 1:53:19 AM)

My goals for the mud season are
1 - another reorganization and redeployment of strength
2 - validate combat goals for the upcoming season
3 - confirm AP plan through the next combat season - note all necessary infantry brigades are now built




topeverest -> AP plan (1/12/2018 1:53:45 AM)

Here is the updated corps divisions and brigades.

Current plan is to keep building infantry corps throughout the mud season (3 more turns). (18 more)



[image]local://upfiles/26803/E5A6C48ED0F445EDBCF3BFF765CAF4D1.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Map (1/12/2018 2:49:35 AM)

Here is the updated map for the summer campaign. Note the front locations show some of the major reorganization I need to do.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/33BB8B503E5C4FF09CF51A70A954F6B3.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> RE: Strentgth Update (1/12/2018 2:56:01 AM)

If I haven't said it before, this is very helpful feedback. If only I could learn as fast as you can teach!
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Everything in this AAR is pretty darn good except for one thing, the execution.

The Lake Ladoga offensive. I assume that Leningrad is a part of this, otherwise one can only guess what strategic objective is. You sent your cavalry corps off to support an attack where you don't have much in the way of rifle corps. If you intend to take Leningrad, you will want to have at least one rifle army of guards corps just for that task.

The failure at Orel was a given. Tank corps left unsupported by infantry, cavalry or mechanized formations are easy wins for the Germans. Historically, Soviet tank corps were often hammered by the Germans because of the lack of supporting units in these corps. They were effectively just a blob of tanks, and tanks without infantry support do not fare well. It goes towards the whole concept of combined arms action. If those cavalry corps you sent off to the Ladoga action had been in the same hexes as the tank corps, you would have been better off. It also demonstrates why you want to focus heavily on getting those cavalry corps to guards. They get better movement rates in enemy territory and ergo can better support your tank corps as they exploit the gaps that are created by rifle corps assaults. Now in November the tank corps finally get the upgrade they so badly need and become less reliant on cavalry and mechanized support, but you're not quite there yet.

The Boguchar-Belgorod Offensive will be somewhat hampered buy the fact that you will not have good supply there as you do not have a functional rail line in the immediate vicinity. It too appears to have a tank corps component but again no cavalry.

The Don-Donets sector is a depressing sight. Guards rifle corps near Rostov just wasting away, apparent assaults across major rivers with no real strategic goal, no exploitation forces slightly behind the lines so as not to suffer from fatigue are the more obvious shortcomings.

You are certainly still in a position to win the game, but the clock is now ticking. You can't afford to see these breakthrough attempts thrown back at this stage. Focus on the basics.

Identify where you need to get to.

Identify what you need to get you there.

To push along your important routes, you need guards rifle corps with sappers for the initial attack. Here is where the artillery and rocket on map units are the biggest help.

When the enemy retreats, send in the IL-2s for additional losses. Hit them again with another infantry or cavalry-tank attack, force them to retreat again.

When the enemy retreats again, bomb them again. The German rifle division cannot stand up to this sort of treatment indefinitely. Push in your cavalry-tank forces and hit them again if you can...and so on.

Once all this seems logical, you'll be solid in any future games.











M60A3TTS -> RE: Strentgth Update (2/9/2018 1:50:02 PM)

Anything more on this game?




ericv -> RE: Turn 2 Center (2/9/2018 4:57:31 PM)

your harsh words must have scared him away




M60A3TTS -> RE: Turn 2 Center (2/9/2018 5:29:01 PM)

I could have said everything was hunky dorey, but then I'd have been lying and he wouldn't learn as much. [:)]




ericv -> RE: Turn 2 Center (2/9/2018 5:30:46 PM)

true. :-)




charlie0311 -> RE: Turn 2 Center (2/9/2018 8:23:42 PM)

Fearing the mighty m-60 his opponent has bailed, ???




topeverest -> RE: Turn 2 Center (2/26/2018 2:04:51 AM)

NO worries. I enjoy the opportunity to learn - and I have soooo much to learn.

I have been head-down working but making slow progress on the game. Following is the update for end of 43

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I could have said everything was hunky dorey, but then I'd have been lying and he wouldn't learn as much. [:)]





topeverest -> Turn 133 End of 1943 (2/26/2018 2:17:02 AM)

Last we heard I was limping along trying to learn the Ruskies. Following is the update as of end of 1943

1. Russians reach lake Ladoga and push to sortavala Finland. offensive ends, and troops move to Moscow offensive
2. Russians stopped 2 hexes short of Volkov and end offensive - push units to Moscow offensive
3. Russians Turn west in their attack from Tula, and force Germany to withdrawal 30-80 miles and establish a new front supported by armor to the west
4. Russians drive west from Voronezh and reach Oskol river, began pushing across. Russians 6-7 hexes from Kharkov (though not specifically driving straight there
5. Main Russian effort driving SW towards the Donets NW of Stalino complex and should arrive there by late January
6. Russian attack to retake Moscow starts next turn. The odds look good, as the defenses have been stripped to bolster other waning fonts. 3 armor, 4 cavalry, and 10 infantry armies are in the effort
7. Russian continue to build corps with APs
8. As a player, I still am trying to find the best Russian blitz formula

Overall, I would suggest that my progress has been poor to modest over the last 8 turns, gaining an average of one hex per turn in my main attack.


[image]local://upfiles/26803/B041175F9F8F45AD85934617276B889D.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Strategic Situation (2/26/2018 2:32:59 AM)

Here is the Map update since the last post.

I have been fiddling around with attack constructs and it seems that a more productive attack is guard infantry first wave, guard army infantry second wave and armor / cav / mech third wave. Still testing of course.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/9D2272D08E564B87BF8129C66F7A7483.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Air losses (2/26/2018 2:41:37 AM)

Air ceased being a problem.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/26E8D7B4F43F4BDDAD1AEB1C9C548DC1.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Ground losses and AFV production (2/26/2018 2:47:54 AM)

All is good here too.

If I had enough trucks, Id build more armor...but I don't.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/F6267086AEEE424D9D99F95B391E4D58.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Industry (2/26/2018 2:52:12 AM)

Looks good here too.

74K excess manpower and 2.5M armaments



[image]local://upfiles/26803/36C91A9C46BD4B2FAD72ABE3D5BB1F17.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Corps (2/26/2018 3:01:03 AM)

Here is the steady progress on corps/

Note no artillery divisions built yet. At maximum guards for year of course.

Plan is to keep heavy emphasis on INF / CAV corps creation and monitor trucks.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/EC471385BFA94569B8F63C933F0D1638.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Force disposition (2/26/2018 3:03:16 AM)

xxxx



[image]local://upfiles/26803/70A2601D3C0443E29B05732C6D724C4D.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Turn 135 an 13, 1944 (3/6/2018 12:40:26 AM)

Trucks 136 (177) Blizzard 10

Over the first two turns of 1944:
1. transcaucuses front attack 4 hex defense stand --- north side of lake ladoga after a long slosh to the Finnish line. One hex taken two others reduced
2. Moscow attack had surprising early success, punching 3 holes across the attack zone. Enemy pulls back 2-3 hexes and no substantive attacking occurs in next turn. Reds are now adjacent to Moscow hex
3. Minor holding attack SE of Orel making one hex per turn or less on a 30 mile front. 3 hexes to city
4. Attacking due west towards Belgorod and Kharkov against heavy resistance. Slow progress. main effect is to hold down strong troops
5. Main attack SW across Krasnaya river north of Donets consistent with the main thrust. Pincer attack to south and across donets fails to close entirely shut
6. Attacking due west to Mius river / Tangarog stead progress and grinding many enemy units

[image]local://upfiles/26803/25120F0F0FB44C45BEB672065E2DEEA1.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Stalino Complex View (3/6/2018 12:50:09 AM)

Here is the Stalino Complex

note the ground down enemy units around Stalino. First Shattered Enemy Unit this past turn and more routes each turn



[image]local://upfiles/26803/A0CFF87769214BF7B822B521E170ED91.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> Moscow (3/6/2018 12:55:12 AM)

This will be a slog unless I get smart in blitzing.



[image]local://upfiles/26803/9BF7503B06CF411DAE3E3D10F86E7CBD.jpg[/image]




STEF78 -> RE: Moscow (3/6/2018 6:05:23 AM)

Did you disband 3 cav corps? and if so why?
25 tank corps and only 18k AFV, do you lack some types of tanks? Or don't you build tank regiments?




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