adarbrauner -> RE: Japanese ASW not toned down in stock? (11/13/2016 5:14:22 AM)
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ORIGINAL: crsutton quote:
ORIGINAL: adarbrauner forwarded that: 1-I've not updated yet to the last betas; 2-I've been running the game since 7thDec 1941 until beginning of February 1942 only, and 3- against the AI meanwhile, unfortunately; This said, i'm encountering EXACTLY the opposite issue; US-allied subs had been subject to countless, COUNTLESS, attacks by escort vessels and ASW air patrols, without almost any result; regardless the very low hit percentages by depth charges, the problem and the striking thing is the UNVULNERABILTY of the sub when hit; there was a case where a sub remained sea able AND SUBMERGED after having hit a mine; in another case, a sub, receiveda 120 cm shell direct hit, but still sea able and able to submerge; the very very few hits by DC caused some WATER FLOODING or intake (SIC), according to the report (BTW, why should I see, as opponent, the detailed and true report of the damage caused ??), but still the vessel could keep the submerged course and escape normally; I don't like that; I don't like unnatural unvulnerabilty not for US subs, nor for my Jap subs; I could have singled ONLY ONE effective hit by airplane bomb, in a time span of two months, out of some good hundreds of "a submarine has reported been hit" (yes,a joke); subs are seemingly never ever modeled to be operating at surface (how is that possibl, I have the impression i'm dealing with some Typhoon or Oscar II classes rather than Gato or earlier even), apart from the cases where the y attack , on surface; I couldn't discern any Sonar-ASDIC technology improvenment or development, nor Huff Duff, Metox or their Pacific equivalents, either, why? I think and feel this is a big flaw in the game model which should be corrected the earliest, and I'm sure many others have had the same thought - in spite of what described here by the original poster, who's describibg exactly the opposite issue (if possible) just happening, in game's model, some years later. Thank you for reading and relating to this You do know that the Allies lost only seven subs total in all of 1942? Only three were actually lost in combat. Just how many would you like to lose to stay happy? [;)] For the whole war the Allies averaged less than one sub lost per month in the Pacific. I don't think I have seen a game where the Allies have lost less than this historical average. Japanese ASW skills were less than stellar throughout the war. My own experience after two full (2,000 turns) campaigns mirrors that of the OP. And, what the OP is referring to is the appearance in late 1943 of what we derisively call the "Super E" class of Japanese escorts which are quite deadly for Allies subs. In my last campaign I lost about 80 subs after these guys appeared and had to withdraw them from any job but close invasion support. On the other hand after the beginning of 1943 in both campaigns I was able to fairly neutralize the Japanese sub force in about six to eight months-which is about the way it should be. A skilled human can take the Japanese ASW forces and be quite deadly with them. A skilled Allied player can do even more. I think anyone here can confirm that. quote:
You do know that the Allies lost only seven subs total in all of 1942? Only three were actually lost in combat. Just how many would you like to lose to stay happy? For the whole war the Allies averaged less than one sub lost per month in the Pacific. I don't think I have seen a game where the Allies have lost less than this historical average. Japanese ASW skills were less than stellar throughout the war. My own experience after two full (2,000 turns) campaigns mirrors that of the OP. And, what the OP is referring to is the appearance in late 1943 of what we derisively call the "Super E" class of Japanese escorts which are quite deadly for Allies subs. In my last campaign I lost about 80 subs after these guys appeared and had to withdraw them from any job but close invasion support. On the other hand after the beginning of 1943 in both campaigns I was able to fairly neutralize the Japanese sub force in about six to eight months-which is about the way it should be. A skilled human can take the Japanese ASW forces and be quite deadly with them. A skilled Allied player can do even more. I think anyone here can confirm that. Yes but merchant ships losses by Allied submarines for December, January until 15th February 1942 were only of 16 vessels ( https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/JANAC-Losses-4.html) if you want to check the coordinates , here they are enclosed in the link, but i'd bet that it could hardly be found a sinking in the Chinese Seas or along the Japanese home island, wherever in my game I've already suffered 28 -against the AI - all in the aforementioned waters; look, I seek only realism, nothing more or less, and the way is done now, within this aspect, is not; don't understand the point against really; Edit: grossly not, frustratingly not, painfully not (realistic, the asw warfare...) Edit2: and i'm repaying back the Us in the same right way! 46 Allied merchant ships sunk by subs only, until the 7th of February!! How do i do it, simple, I loiter and camp around Pearl Harbour, with impunity (around Sidney), and soon around S Francisco as well...tell this realistic? what would you say, i'm going to force bankruptcy over the Allies? I'd be delighted to!
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