RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (Full Version)

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Orm -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/23/2016 7:31:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

28th July 1940

At sea the German wolf packs are dealing a devastating blow the Allied destroyer force too.



Anyway. That's enough of the doom and gloom. Time for the good news.....

......

...well that's a bit of a blow. There is no good news.....[:(]

I will put it to you that there is good news that France have held until now. I will also put to you that you have caused the German forces losses it will cost to replace. And your submarines has mauled the German ore import. And you forced Germany to fight in Norway.

And Finland has been given aid.

I say that the Western Allies have done lots of things and most of it good. That is good news in my humble opinion.



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 6:12:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

28th July 1940

At sea the German wolf packs are dealing a devastating blow the Allied destroyer force too.



Anyway. That's enough of the doom and gloom. Time for the good news.....

......

...well that's a bit of a blow. There is no good news.....[:(]

I will put it to you that there is good news that France have held until now. I will also put to you that you have caused the German forces losses it will cost to replace. And your submarines has mauled the German ore import. And you forced Germany to fight in Norway.

And Finland has been given aid.

I say that the Western Allies have done lots of things and most of it good. That is good news in my humble opinion.
warspite1

Thank you for the encouragement[:)]. You are hired as my chief morale officer.



operating -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:13:19 AM)

Warspite,

A couple of questions: Can land units be disbanded and or can fleets be scrapped? When using naval bombardments on MMP locations is there any effect on MMP? Also what effects are there on ground units from naval bombardments? (ie, morale/cohesion or unit damage)



n0kn0k -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:58:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Warspite,

A couple of questions: Can land units be disbanded and or can fleets be scrapped? When using naval bombardments on MMP locations is there any effect on MMP? Also what effects are there on ground units from naval bombardments? (ie, morale/cohesion or unit damage)


Landunits = yes
Navy = no (otherwise I'd sell the whole French navy each game)
For the others i'd have to test first.




warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 4:15:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Warspite,

A couple of questions: Can land units be disbanded and or can fleets be scrapped? When using naval bombardments on MMP locations is there any effect on MMP? Also what effects are there on ground units from naval bombardments? (ie, morale/cohesion or unit damage)


Landunits = yes
Navy = no (otherwise I'd sell the whole French navy each game)
For the others i'd have to test first.

warspite1
What he said [;)]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 4:18:15 PM)

28th July 1940

France
The French decide to die with honour and so the call goes out - take as many Germans with you as possible!

Attacks are launched by De Gaulle against 2nd Army south east of Rouen with some success, but attacks against I Frontier Corps and II Corps are little more than spirited sideshows.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/AC9D7A41753F4E4BA2BD22A6B0196B2F.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 4:34:37 PM)

28 July 1940

United Kingdom
Meanwhile shore bombardment against the Italian Garrison is entirely effective.... for the Italians [&:]. The RN forces take some losses against this super-human Italian Garrison....

The Western Desert Force continues its trek west and comes across the Italian 10th Army's I Corps that are manning the Libyan/Egyptian border. Upon hearing the news, the Mediterranean Fleet, race east with Ark Royal and Eagle's aircraft on CAP.

The British start to rebuild their fighters and a destroyer flotilla. A Garrison is built for Egypt and two Corps are built to begin replacing those lost in France.

In the northwest approaches the deadly game of cat-and-mouse continues - the 4th Destroyer Flotilla is not long for this world me thinks....

[image]local://upfiles/28156/7FC07C5D1B524C9A9A034D74EDC58060.jpg[/image]



marklv -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 4:50:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

28th July 1940

Sadly the Italian Navy has not taken the bait and are no doubt waiting for better opportunities. Either that or Supermarina refused to let Campioni out to play. Either way its very frustrating - especially as the Italian army seems very overpowered compared to historically....

[image]local://upfiles/28156/0CB79BA640244EDD90FECEB504881F61.jpg[/image]


I believe the Italians deployed 30-32 divisions or so on the front with France in 1940, so it's not inaccurate. Of course an Italian division had roughly the firepower of a French or British brigade, but they clearly outnumbered the French. What happened historically is that the French Alpine divisions fortified themselves very effectively on the mountains and blocked any Italian advances there, while on the coast the Italians did not advance past Menton for reasons best known to themselves. Had they pushed hard on the coastal road they could well have taken Nice, but Mussolini wanted to let the Germans do the hard work. On the other hand the Italian air force was quite effective in harassing the French forces - and also civilian refugees fleeing the German advance from the north.



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 6:24:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marklv

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

28th July 1940

Sadly the Italian Navy has not taken the bait and are no doubt waiting for better opportunities. Either that or Supermarina refused to let Campioni out to play. Either way its very frustrating - especially as the Italian army seems very overpowered compared to historically....

[image]local://upfiles/28156/0CB79BA640244EDD90FECEB504881F61.jpg[/image]


I believe the Italians deployed 30-32 divisions or so on the front with France in 1940, so it's not inaccurate. Of course an Italian division had roughly the firepower of a French or British brigade, but they clearly outnumbered the French. What happened historically is that the French Alpine divisions fortified themselves very effectively on the mountains and blocked any Italian advances there, while on the coast the Italians did not advance past Menton for reasons best known to themselves. Had they pushed hard on the coastal road they could well have taken Nice, but Mussolini wanted to let the Germans do the hard work. On the other hand the Italian air force was quite effective in harassing the French forces - and also civilian refugees fleeing the German advance from the north.

warspite1

Well this front is far from my specialist subject, but suffice to say it was only a throw away comment. Regardless of whether the Italians are or are not over rated here (and my guess is they probably are) it doesn't affect my liking for the game so far - but is just the exasperated cry of a war gamer who is having his bottom handed to him [;)]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 6:37:19 PM)

28 July 1940

The US and Soviets spend nothing.

So that wraps up the Allied turn, let's see what happens next.....



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 6:53:19 PM)

11th August 1940

France
The French make a valiant effort to hold Paris - and cost the Germans some losses to - but ultimately there was only one outcome.

Vichy is declared thanks largely to the efforts of this man.


How to judge this man in history? A difficult one. A patriot who was doing his best for France in an impossible situation, or a naive and foolish old man who couldn't see the big picture and was leading France to destruction regardless? No doubt we all have our opinions of Vichy, but unless one is in that situation, who can say how one would react?
[image]local://upfiles/28156/9FD89BB504FE4ACF9EBAEEC4B6C4BBC2.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 6:58:19 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom

Get off my land!!
[image]local://upfiles/28156/AEF2126D66794A6B80F14F3BF72A3183.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 7:03:44 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom
The British are asked if they would like to support the Free French. This is a no-brainer but the notes contained an odd line. Lorraine is an old battleship?? Anyways... I of course say yes - especially the way Colonel De Gaulle handled those Somuas!

There is also another no-brainer. Do the British want to take over France's orders for aircraft? Er yes please. It'll cost 25 MPP and they are probably rubbish - but its numbers I need right now!

[image]local://upfiles/28156/C640DA5624D440A28B75A158B8D03FFF.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 7:12:22 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom
The Military Activity Summary is spread over two pages......

Of concern here are Spain - which is now 43% tilted toward the Axis, and I do not know what military units Vichy has. If its straightforward for the Spanish to join with the Germans I hope there is some sort of realistic adverse knock-on effect re Vichy and Italy?? I suspect I will need to get my diplomats in gear.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/4E482C7B9C96405CBF2E91F1FCC3485B.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 7:16:41 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom

And page 2.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/180311354B474B90B033F855676E3797.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 7:20:17 PM)

11th August 1940

The Map is looking good here - here is Vichy France

[image]local://upfiles/28156/BC1029ED6C2F482B8098965BFF0CAF92.jpg[/image]



BillRunacre -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 7:22:18 PM)

Thanks warspite1, good news is that it is a Battleship that will arrive, I'll change the wording here. [:)]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:28:22 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom
I spend a whopping 150 MPP to try and bring the Spanish back into line.

I then waste the remaining points because I thought I was buying for the US. Sorry Bill, I know I'm a klutz, but without an undo feature this really needs changing to help players avoid this mistake...

USSR
The Soviets look at AT weaponry in view of the impending Blitzkrieg they suspect is on its way...

USA
The spend research points on Production Tech and naval warfare. The Soviets invest in AT tech.


Here is the Research Table - the British could do with ASW and fast!
[image]local://upfiles/28156/9A8A6317E4B2446D94EE45509838013F.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:36:55 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom
The German subs dive deep and leave the Allied flotilla chasing shadows.

In Narvik, thanks to the bug I could nothing about the impregnable German garrison - I have even less chance now Bethouart's troops have gone. Didn't fancy the Free French then Bethouart old chum? I will attempt to evacuate the British troops - if that is possible without the port.



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:48:23 PM)

11th August 1940

United Kingdom
A Decision is required. Basically the question is; launch Catapult or not?

I am going to say yes. With hindsight the decision was wrong, but at the time it was an understandable response to a most dire situation.

I am also intrigued as to how this game plays with regard to Spain and France with historical events.


A sorry day indeed - but this as Churchill understood - was total war. The Royal Navy were ridiculously over-extended even then, the addition of the French Fleet combined with the potential loss of Gibraltar really didn't bear thinking about.

In memory of the 1,000 + French sailors that died that day.
[image]local://upfiles/28156/FBF24B5B4F114BACA7841DE4517E027F.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 8:58:18 PM)

25th August 1940

United Kingdom
No idea what happened during Catapult. Maybe there is a message to come?

In the meantime, all I saw during the AI turn was a lot of German activity in southeastern Poland... an early Barbarossa? The Germans can't be ready for that surely? plus its almost autumn.

Anyways, here is another decision - and its an interesting one. The British and Canadians are being offered old American destroyers in return for bases. By agreeing the British get five destroyer flotillas - but convoy income goes down. So without knowing the numbers here, am I better to say no - and get my convoys shot up - or say yes and potentially still get my convoys shot up AND a reduced income to start with?

Without knowing the numbers I am going to have to take a shot in the dark and say YES.

Another decision follows hot on the heels of this one. Do I want to beef up 7th Armoured Division in Egypt with 150 tanks that would otherwise be used in the defence of the UK?

I answer yes. I suspect Wavell can put them to good use, although this costs me 45 MPP.


Beggars can't be choosers as they say...
[image]local://upfiles/28156/B282BCE8A8A9431E8EE0A09871C8AA16.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:16:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

11th August 1940

..

In Narvik, thanks to the bug I could nothing about the impregnable German garrison - I have even less chance now Bethouart's troops have gone. Didn't fancy the Free French then Bethouart old chum? I will attempt to evacuate the British troops - if that is possible without the port.


yes, just move them to the coast and then spend the MPP to make them seaworthy



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:17:40 PM)

25th August 1940

United Kingdom
Reinforcements - hussah!

I place a fighter in airfields south of London.

The new battleships King George V and Prince of Wales in Glasgow.

Soviet Union
23rd Army in Wilno.



xwormwood -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:18:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


yes, just move them to the coast and then spend the MPP to make them seaworthy



Or move well supplied carrier to narvik, bomb the garrison and wait until it retreats again out of the town.
It happens, even from air attacks...



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:21:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


yes, just move them to the coast and then spend the MPP to make them seaworthy



Or move well supplied carrier to narvik, bomb the garrison and wait until it retreats again out of the town.
It happens, even from air attacks...
warspite1

Not the FAA - they seem to have no effect on the garrison whatsoever. The British and French attacked, the Germans sometimes retreated but the British and French could not move in - and the Germans re-built and moved back in repeat, rinse, spin....



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:22:26 PM)

Annoyingly I have no idea what happened during catapult - is that WAD? [&:]



Amona -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 9:45:59 PM)

CAtapult has always historical results in the game, therefore there is no message.
The air raid on Gibraltar reduces one of the Gibraltar ports temporarily von 5 to 3.



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 10:14:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amona

CAtapult has always historical results in the game, therefore there is no message.
The air raid on Gibraltar reduces one of the Gibraltar ports temporarily von 5 to 3.

warspite1

Okay thanks. Shame there could not be some variance on result but fair enough.

25th August 1940

United Kingdom
Meanwhile:

The RAF reorganises itself in the grim aftermath of its performance in France.

No.10 Fighter Group – Air Vice-Marshal Sir Quintin Brand (H.Q - Box, Wiltshire) - 10 Squadrons*

No.11 Fighter Group - Air Vice-Marshal Keith Park (H.Q – Uxbridge, Middlesex) – 23 Squadrons

No.12 Fighter Group – Air Vice-Marshal Trafford Leigh-Mallory (H.Q – Watnall, Nottinghamshire) – 15 Squadrons

No.13 Fighter Group – Air Vice-Marshal Richard Saul (H.Q – Newcastle, Northumberland) - Forming


* For the avoidance of doubt, the references to squadrons is nothing to do with the game - just my additions to aid immersion into the game and increase the fun element.
[image]local://upfiles/28156/29846E8208624B119ADE110BC4BC9CE4.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 10:22:23 PM)

25th August 1940

United Kingdom
The Production table makes for some comforting viewing - so long as the Germans don't launch Sealion in the next few turns.

We have lots of units in September (there is also a DD not showing) including No.13 Fighter Group, three infantry Corps (one Canadian) and two tank formations (one Canadian). By the way I love the Canadian flag [&o]

[image]local://upfiles/28156/C0444BF5CD3446FD988FC9082FF4B18F.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: How the Axis could have won. Allied AAR RTW (11/24/2016 10:24:55 PM)

25th August 1940

Soviet Union

While we are about it, here are the Soviet reinforcements...

[image]local://upfiles/28156/5D4348547342489DADD82399258346C4.jpg[/image]



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