RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J)

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (Full Version)

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obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 9:25:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled He's going to have to make sure Burma remains Japanese as long as possible, which means he'll be very weak on his perimeter elsewhere. Course, the KB won't really be needed in the Sea of Japan so thats still a factor, but hell, they are going to be opportunities galore. If he is feeling pressure in the Aleutians and/or wants to do some amphib ops, the KB could be involved. He will then have to watch out for silent Ivan. [:)]

Encircled -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 10:02:18 AM)
The more I think about this the more I feel he's got to go "all in" on the Soviets. He can't be passive on the border, as time is against him. But if he manages the knock out blow......

ny59giants -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 12:16:36 PM)
I've wondered if it was feasible to take on the Soviets in late 42/early 43 after China has been knocked out.

Bif1961 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 1:11:43 PM)
So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II.

GetAssista -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 1:35:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II. Russians have always used arabic numbers for their tank models. Books that use Roman numbers are plainly not paying attention and are probably not so good books in the end. WW is irrelevant here.

BBfanboy -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 2:49:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II. I think someone got lazy and shortened the KV2/85 (where the 85 refers to the gun mounted in that version) to KV85. The Russians seem to have kept the chassis and up-gunned a lot of their tanks as the war showed the need.

Bif1961 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 9:42:36 PM)
Actually the KV-2 mounted a 152mm gun and was used before the KV-85 was made.

BBfanboy -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 10:12:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 Actually the KV-2 mounted a 152mm gun and was used before the KV-85 was made. I stand corrected - was sure I had seen the KV-2/85 designation somewhere.

Bif1961 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/4/2017 11:44:59 PM)
You might have but the KV-2 was a KV-chasis with a boxy turret with 152mm gun, the KV-85 came out later and had a turret like the T-34/85 on the KV chasis.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/5/2017 5:05:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled The more I think about this the more I feel he's got to go "all in" on the Soviets. He can't be passive on the border, as time is against him. But if he manages the knock out blow...... I don't know. To be honest I don't know why he wanted to keep going and play with the Soviets active. Curiosity? a challenge? The Russians should be very good defensively, much better than the Chinese, with much more supply. Soviet base off map gets 4k a day plus the on map industry. The arty and big divisions plus all of the tanks and good territory, plus forts in every base. If he uses only the 8-9k in Manchuria then the Russians outnumber the IJA by quite a bit, too. This is very early. He still needs to take the PI, Singers and Java. Each of those can take some time. He'll likely want to push forward a bit in China, or try to knock it out. It seems to me that summer 42 is a much more likely time for a big push in Soviet territory. By then every base will be forts 6+ and there should be a big supply buffer, plus the Chinese could get involved more if supply flows there from the NW deserts. If he also wants to hold So Pac and No Pac he'll have to continue to add troops, air groups, IJN and supply to those areas. The KB can't be everywhere. Until ASW air is better (bomber pilots and FP pilots trained to 70 ASW skill by about March-April 42) I'll be hitting the sea lanes hard with all of these new subs and all of the old ones. It's going to be dicey for his ships for a while, too. I'm looking forward to this new kind of game, but I predict it'll be tough for the Japanese for a while. Not that he won't dominate parts of it as usual in 42-43. He'll have a huge superiority in the air once the Tojo arrives and the Helen gives him an armoured bomber. The George, Jack and Frank will ensure an advantage into mid to late 43. In the Soviet area this will be even more pronounced as the replacements don't arrive until late 44.

Encircled -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/5/2017 8:48:42 AM)
Lowpe strikes me as the sort of person who revels in a crisis! Its got to be curiosity and the possibility of "what if I can do it?" Bit like his West Coast Invasion against Jocke :-)

GetAssista -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/5/2017 9:57:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled Lowpe strikes me as the sort of person who revels in a crisis! Its got to be curiosity and the possibility of "what if I can do it?" Bit like his West Coast Invasion against Jocke :-) I think his earlier pick up game against tiemanj is even better example. Previous Japan player got Allies on his doorstep in early 1944, and Lowpe showed feats of resourcefulness and cunning in his defence of HI[&o]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/5/2017 2:36:29 PM)
One time about two years ago (?) I counted up the Soviet infantry levels at the start and got something like 31 divisions and division equivalents. From memory. As you say, decent supply, and a lot more arty than China. Everybody always talks about how their air force is so weak, but Japan's level bombers aren't strong. If you move the fighters back out of the way and never confront him except with AA and forts I don't see how he begins to have enough land force to fight the USSR AND China, AND Burma, AND do the perimeter requirements. And he works with a knife at the back of his neck every day. I also think he wanted to do this "just to see." Not because he thinks it's a winning move.

witpqs -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/5/2017 2:50:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 One time about two years ago (?) I counted up the Soviet infantry levels at the start and got something like 31 divisions and division equivalents. From memory. As you say, decent supply, and a lot more arty than China. Everybody always talks about how their air force is so weak, but Japan's level bombers aren't strong. If you move the fighters back out of the way and never confront him except with AA and forts I don't see how he begins to have enough land force to fight the USSR AND China, AND Burma, AND do the perimeter requirements. And he works with a knife at the back of his neck every day. I also think he wanted to do this "just to see." Not because he thinks it's a winning move. +1 [&o] Kudos to Lowpe!

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/6/2017 5:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 One time about two years ago (?) I counted up the Soviet infantry levels at the start and got something like 31 divisions and division equivalents. From memory. As you say, decent supply, and a lot more arty than China. Everybody always talks about how their air force is so weak, but Japan's level bombers aren't strong. If you move the fighters back out of the way and never confront him except with AA and forts I don't see how he begins to have enough land force to fight the USSR AND China, AND Burma, AND do the perimeter requirements. And he works with a knife at the back of his neck every day. I also think he wanted to do this "just to see." Not because he thinks it's a winning move. The main issue is replacements. None come until 44 for the Soviet air groups. So it'll be a 3-4 month shot and a lot to training time for the next 18 months. I'm curious to see how the Soviet AA performs. It looks tough on paper, with about half of the heavy units sporting the 88mm guns and lots of 37mm that work up to 7k. I just counted up the industry, and it looks like ~600 supply from HI/LI on map with the 1,400 from Soviet base off map and the 4,000 "magic" supply from the same base. That's ~6k a turn, or 180,000 a month!! [X(] I'll be trying to shift a bunch froward early and of course try to get some into China. The fuel will eventually run out unless I repair and use Oka wells to transport and refine in Komsomolsk. That seems both too complicated and too much of a gift to Japan. They'll see those fields as ripe if they are in working order. I wonder if Urumchi fuel will flow in Soviet off-map and back around?

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/6/2017 7:35:48 AM)
Lowpe likes a challenge. Kudos to the guy for pushing the game to its limits. Cheers, CC

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/6/2017 5:12:09 PM)
6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/6/2017 7:58:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(]

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 5:02:44 PM)
Jan 21, 1942 SOVIETS ARE ACTIVE!!! SOVIETS: This was a pretty conservative beginning for the Soviets. A few troops moving, some real, some maskirovkas. Some shoring up weak points and moving to the rear. A few strikes go in over the night as recon tries to sort out what bases are defended most heavily. Only two Oil hits on Shikuka, but those take out 8 points of oil. Nice!! [8D] In the day the DB-3T hit Kushiro for 17 resource point hits. While this seems less than important, actually Kushiro, Sapporo and Sakhalin resources are critical to the economy functioning well throughout the war, and will he actually repair resource point damage? Probably not. I will try to hit oil, but this seemed a god start, and does yield strat VPs. A reported 58 gained today! I'll move quickly and try to get troops into forward x3 positions just beyond the border forts. Many divisions still filling out disabled. Annoying. SUBS: We've been tracking an escape by the damaged ships from Balikpapan. Interesting tactic to put them in a slow TF with a bunch of merchies and escorts. I like it. Except that it's working so far. Got some good attacks, but no hits to the cruisers. Still, the one failure of this method is that they're very easy to track, and they have a long way to go. On the other side of the DEI Sargo gets a shot to hit from a spread of four fish on CL Isuzu. This may be critical. No sign of her after the attack either. A Dutch sub also finds the BBs heading to Singers. They are protected by a lot of DDs, and KX goes for DD Urakaze but misses. KVII does hit xAP Yoshino Maru with 2 torps and some troops also look to go down with the ship near Dongala. Nice! Plunger also strikes an AKE and it shows heavy damage near Simushiri-Jima. DEI: Another bombardment looks imminent at Singers. BBs make it to within 4 hexes. A sacrificial TB goes in and hits a mine. Might sink. I'll lay more mines overnight. Hope the CD guns finally show up here. The 4Es hit Samarinda for 6 oil point hits, yielding another 12 or so damage to the oil. We do lose a B-17E flying a bit too low for a DBB game. I'll get back to 7k for tomorrow's action. Going for Palembang!! PACIFIC: The CVs will head back to Pearl for some upgrades and to refill air groups. I need more CVs to be dangerous here, and I will move back North soon. I'd like to force the KB into open water where subs can be most effective away from LBA ASW. CHINA: The AVG continues to sweep Canton, again taking out a few Nates with no losses. Chipping away. Next the SB-III went in to hit the industry here. Got 1 HI point hit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 21, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Donggala at 68,97 Japanese Ships DMS W-16 CA Suzuya, heavy damage CL Kiso, heavy damage DD Shikinami, heavy damage PB Nagata Maru SC Ch 3 xAK Tyoko Maru xAK Argun Maru xAK Matsukawa Maru DD Okikaze PB Shonan Maru #17 PB Nikkai Maru Allied Ships SS KVIII SS KVIII launches 2 torpedoes at DMS W-16 KVIII diving deep .... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine attack near Muntok at 50,89 Japanese Ships CL Isuzu, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships SS Sargo CL Isuzu is sighted by SS Sargo SS Sargo launches 4 torpedoes at CL Isuzu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Donggala at 70,96 Japanese Ships CA Kako, heavy damage CA Suzuya, heavy damage CL Kiso, heavy damage DD Shikinami, heavy damage PB Nagata Maru SC Ch 3 DMS W-16 xAK Hakusika Maru xAK Kosin Maru #2 xAK Yamagiku Maru DD Okikaze PB Shonan Maru #17 PB Nikkai Maru Allied Ships SS Sturgeon SS Sturgeon launches 4 torpedoes at CA Kako -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Billiton at 53,92 Japanese Ships DD Urakaze BB Mutsu BB Kirishima CL Abukuma DD Minazuki DD Kasumi DD Natsugumo DD Kuretake DD Yunagi DD Ayanami DD Samidare Allied Ships SS KX, hits 1 SS KX launches 4 torpedoes at DD Urakaze KX bottoming out .... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 61 encounters mine field at Singapore (50,84) Japanese Ships TB Kiji, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine attack near Donggala at 68,97 Japanese Ships xAP Yoshino Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships SS KVIII Japanese ground losses: 41 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled xAP Yoshino Maru is sighted by SS KVIII SS KVIII launches 4 torpedoes at xAP Yoshino Maru -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Air attack on Shikuka , at 126,43 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Allied aircraft DB-3M x 4 No Allied losses Oil hits 2 Aircraft Attacking: 4 x DB-3M bombing from 6000 feet City Attack: 10 x 100 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine attack near Shimushiri-jima at 131,48 Japanese Ships AKE Kiyama Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage Allied Ships SS Plunger AKE Kiyama Maru is sighted by SS Plunger SS Plunger launches 2 torpedoes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Canton , at 77,59 Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 7 Allied aircraft H81-A3 x 24 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-27b Nate: 2 destroyed No Allied losses Aircraft Attacking: 24 x H81-A3 sweeping at 20000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Canton , at 77,59 Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 3 Allied aircraft H81-A3 x 13 SB-III x 28 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses SB-III: 4 damaged Heavy Industry hits 1 Aircraft Attacking: 8 x SB-III bombing from 10000 feet * City Attack: 3 x 100 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Kushiro , at 123,53 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 16 minutes Allied aircraft DB-3T x 49 No Allied losses Resources hits 17 Aircraft Attacking: 24 x DB-3T bombing from 2000 feet City Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Samarinda , at 65,96 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 3 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 29 Allied aircraft B-339D x 4 B-17D Fortress x 4 B-17E Fortress x 13 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses B-17D Fortress: 1 damaged B-17E Fortress: 6 damaged B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed by flak Aircraft Attacking: 7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 2000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Samarinda , at 65,96 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 2 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 21 Allied aircraft B-339D x 4 B-17E Fortress x 6 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged Oil hits 2 Aircraft Attacking: 6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 2000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Samarinda , at 65,96 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 13 Allied aircraft B-339D x 1 B-17D Fortress x 1 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses B-339D: 1 destroyed B-17D Fortress: 1 damaged Oil hits 1 Aircraft Attacking: 1 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 5000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Samarinda , at 65,96 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 9 Allied aircraft B-17E Fortress x 9 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged Oil hits 3 Aircraft Attacking: 8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 2000 feet * City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not Doolittle, but very fun to hit the Home Islands so early with no losses!!! [8D][&o] [image]local://upfiles/37283/F77DAB3409AB46018F41C8381F66B0B6.jpg[/image]

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 5:31:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(] All forts have been building since Dec 8, so pretty much everything is on the way to level 4. I'd guess forts will be done in the next two months at most critical bases. I might build some over 6, but the terrain is good enough I shouldn't have to except for a few critical bases in the clear. I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 6:56:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening. I'm fighting in China in a stock 1 game in May 1942. Burma Road closed, but I'm still able to do a fair bit without it due to organic supply, and Sian still pumping fuel. I'd be like a pig in . . . mud . . . with 6000 a day though. I think Forts 6 is plenty almost everywhere. Vlad is a linchpin and should get 9 if possible. Hitting his oil now has to be infuriating. And strat VPs in 1/42 . . . man. Certainly psyops fodder. In a nice way of course. [:)] AE is such an airplane-centric game that few players can imagine operating for long periods with air power mostly a non-factor. In the USSR it can be. Let him batter his 2E force against your AA. Later, Soviet AA is just monstrous, and mobile. (In 1945 I think there are AA DIVISIONS if I remember correctly.) Just train pilots and thumb your nose at him now. He's going to find what Napoleon and Hitler found--Russia eats up troops. It's immense. If this game goes past 1/1/44 it'll be a miracle.

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 7:04:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(] I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening. I don't [:'(]. So you have 2 stockpiles totaling 340K supplies, and get 6K per day production right now. Production - not surplus. Will you even have any surplus once fighting begins in earnest? How long will those stockpiles last once you no longer have any surplus production and are in the red? Asking the real questions here.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 7:57:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(] I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening. I don't [:'(]. So you have 2 stockpiles totaling 340K supplies, and get 6K per day production right now. Production - not surplus. Will you even have any surplus once fighting begins in earnest? How long will those stockpiles last once you no longer have any surplus production and are in the red? Asking the real questions here. I'll be trying to see how much the Soviets use per day and per week, but to tell you the truth, I have no idea right now. With 5,400 of this supply generation happening off map it does seem like a lot, since so much can't be lost. Have you done some math? Do you know something I don't? [;)]

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 8:09:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(] I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening. I don't [:'(]. So you have 2 stockpiles totaling 340K supplies, and get 6K per day production right now. Production - not surplus. Will you even have any surplus once fighting begins in earnest? How long will those stockpiles last once you no longer have any surplus production and are in the red? Asking the real questions here. I'll be trying to see how much the Soviets use per day and per week, but to tell you the truth, I have no idea right now. With 5,400 of this supply generation happening off map it does seem like a lot, since so much can't be lost. Have you done some math? Do you know something I don't? [;)] I can tell you that you can look at the supplies required numbers for your units and divide that by 30, then round up to the nearest integer. That will give you a supply usage number per unit, per day.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/7/2017 9:02:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna 6k supply per day doesn't actually sound like that much to me. It's not when you factor in needed fort-building. Still, better than China. Another reason to minimize the air war and focus on the ground with the Reds. For two years. [:'(] I think 6k a day sounds like quite a lot. Consider we make so much out of the Burma road to China, which is 500/day. And that is significant for China doing well in game. Vlad also has a good stockpile to begin at 220k, and other bases are in full supply. Soviet base has 120k as well. So I'm not too concerned about supply yet, and Bull is right about the air force. Once it's apparent there is no benefit to using them forward, I'll just sit back and train pilots, let the AA do it's work, and occasionally maybe strike at industry where there is an opening. I don't [:'(]. So you have 2 stockpiles totaling 340K supplies, and get 6K per day production right now. Production - not surplus. Will you even have any surplus once fighting begins in earnest? How long will those stockpiles last once you no longer have any surplus production and are in the red? Asking the real questions here. I'll be trying to see how much the Soviets use per day and per week, but to tell you the truth, I have no idea right now. With 5,400 of this supply generation happening off map it does seem like a lot, since so much can't be lost. Have you done some math? Do you know something I don't? [;)] I can tell you that you can look at the supplies required numbers for your units and divide that by 30, then round up to the nearest integer. That will give you a supply usage number per unit, per day. Cool. I'll try that.

mind_messing -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/8/2017 9:43:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 I also think he wanted to do this "just to see." Not because he thinks it's a winning move. That's why I like Lowp. I've considered most of his stunts myself at one point or another. Whereas with me, they tend to get binned at the paper stage as being impractical, Lowpe will do it. In doing so, he's gaining an insight into the game that very few players will get on the PBEM stage.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/9/2017 4:33:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 I also think he wanted to do this "just to see." Not because he thinks it's a winning move. That's why I like Lowp. I've considered most of his stunts myself at one point or another. Whereas with me, they tend to get binned at the paper stage as being impractical, Lowpe will do it. In doing so, he's gaining an insight into the game that very few players will get on the PBEM stage. Very few players, but ALL of his opponents! [&o] I'm pretty excited to play this game even though it's a tough one.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/9/2017 10:03:17 AM)
Still haven't gotten the next turn back. Jeff's real life and the events in his Jocke game keeping him more than busy. I think he realises too that these turns are critical and doesn't want to screw anything up right now.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/10/2017 8:40:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I can tell you that you can look at the supplies required numbers for your units and divide that by 30, then round up to the nearest integer. That will give you a supply usage number per unit, per day. So I went through the numbers. It looks like about 1850/day in supply usage for all units. That is adding a bit extra requirement in too. Adding in groups flying CAP and bombing runs I'm sure it's another 500-800 depending on the day. Without intense combat there should be some significant surpluses. I will have to be careful to keep a good amount of the surplus in the Southern areas in case of a rail cut. I'll be trying to max out al of those bases in supply soon. A few bases have high fort levels already, and won't need to build much if any more. I will just keep building to level 6 in most locations though.

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (7/11/2017 3:16:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I can tell you that you can look at the supplies required numbers for your units and divide that by 30, then round up to the nearest integer. That will give you a supply usage number per unit, per day. So I went through the numbers. It looks like about 1850/day in supply usage for all units. That is adding a bit extra requirement in too. Adding in groups flying CAP and bombing runs I'm sure it's another 500-800 depending on the day. Without intense combat there should be some significant surpluses. I will have to be careful to keep a good amount of the surplus in the Southern areas in case of a rail cut. I'll be trying to max out al of those bases in supply soon. A few bases have high fort levels already, and won't need to build much if any more. I will just keep building to level 6 in most locations though. No need to add "a bit extra" - I had large sample sizes made up of many days looking at individual units. The divide by 30, round up to integer, holds. E.g., required 315 = 11 supplies per day. Required 31 = 2 supplies per day. Etc. You could add up your CAP and whatnot, and engineers building forts. I'd say a surplus of 3700 per day before engineers wouldn't be unreasonable, although I wouldn't do much bombing. The Soviet bombing units are lackluster and the terrain is not favorable. Just enough to keep him honest, nothing more.

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