December 1943 (Full Version)

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STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/13/2018 4:18:07 PM)


Well, some technical problems as the website hosting my pictures is now closed... I didn't found another solution. Which way are you using?



Telemecus -> RE: December 1943 (1/13/2018 4:31:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


Well, some technical problems as the website hosting my pictures is now closed... I didn't found another solution. Which way are you using?



imgur.com




STEF78 -> RE: December 1943 (1/13/2018 4:37:12 PM)


Thanks, will try it
quote:

imgur.com



Telemecus -> RE: December 1943 (1/13/2018 4:56:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


Thanks, will try it
quote:

imgur.com



If you get stuck working out the right code for embedding images see M60A3TTS-Pitaman AAR where there was a discussion sorting that out for them



M60A3TTS -> RE: December 1943 (1/13/2018 5:38:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


Thanks, will try it
quote:

imgur.com



If you get stuck working out the right code for embedding images see M60A3TTS-Pitaman AAR where there was a discussion sorting that out for them


Copy from Direct Link, not Image Link



STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/13/2018 7:35:42 PM)

Turn 130, 9th december 1943

Thanks to all, it works!

Below situation South of the Don. A romanian div under good command can be useful. Note the 25930 russian AFV!!!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/gxZkgMk.jpg[/img]

We still give some ground but not without counterattacking

[img]https://i.imgur.com/zjjRsry.jpg[/img]

No good news from Crimea

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vHChFeZ.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> RE: December 1943 (1/13/2018 7:36:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Copy from Direct Link, not Image Link

The best way is to copy the BB code



STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/13/2018 7:41:06 PM)

In the center, heavy russian pressure. But I'm worried, some russian tank corps previously east of Boguchar have disapeared...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/pGuSWAi.jpg[/img]

My units are counterattacking as hard as possible!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VJSQwEN.jpg[/img]







STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/14/2018 3:54:33 PM)

Turn 131, 16th december 1943

An overview of the whole front with the main areas of fights. Soon it will shoter to list the quiet areas. And it's almost incredible but despite losses, russians have more and more AFV...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/iVZ7h9r.jpg[/img]



Telemecus -> RE: December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:04:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 131, 16th december 1943
And it's almost incredible but despite losses, russians have more and more AFV...


I assume Stelteck is making a virtue out of that T34 tank surplus and finding ways to use them as well as the light tanks. Probably top secret at the moment, but I do hope by the end Stelteck can give us the low down on how he did this.





M60A3TTS -> RE: December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:05:06 PM)

You're doing a fine job here, keep it up! The blizzard will obviously limit his ability to break through and exploit deeply.



STEF78 -> RE: December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:26:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 131, 16th december 1943
And it's almost incredible but despite losses, russians have more and more AFV...


I assume Stelteck is making a virtue out of that T34 tank surplus and finding ways to use them as well as the light tanks. Probably top secret at the moment, but I do hope by the end Stelteck can give us the low down on how he did this.




I would be interested in too and also to know how he managed trucks shortage.



STEF78 -> RE: December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:28:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You're doing a fine job here, keep it up! The blizzard will obviously limit his ability to break through and exploit deeply.

Blizzard helps, it's sure, even if it also prevents some counterattacks. But it's globaly in my favour.



STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:34:03 PM)

Crimea
I'm progressively losing this battle despite reinforcements. Perekop will be the next stop.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/p8lBY7j.jpg[/img]

Don bend
South of the Don, axis units are doing their best to prevent Rostov's access. Don is fully frozen now, time to give some ground.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/dwBOHVZ.jpg[/img]




STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:40:49 PM)

Voronezh
Direct access to Voronejh is blocked. Russian units are heading north and South. North of Lipetsk, my forts heavily suffer. There is nothing left....

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VZhzwai.jpg[/img]

I have to redeploy some strong units and counterattack as much as possible

[img]https://i.imgur.com/6ded9vP.jpg[/img]






STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:45:33 PM)

Moscow
Lot of fights. I cannot redeploy 56th pzk elsewhere

[img]https://i.imgur.com/3PVjNcO.jpg[/img]

Kalinin

No rest in this area

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZoYdj1L.jpg[/img]

Far north

The finns are now Under pressure too

[img]https://i.imgur.com/PTzrwrR.jpg[/img]






STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/14/2018 4:51:17 PM)

And an overview of the main battles, intense!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/iTzMvOa.jpg[/img]

And the losses: More than 1200 russian AFV destroyed! and almost 100K men. 44K on my side is also far too much!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AuGRFp9.jpg[/img]




BrianG -> Retreat more (1/14/2018 6:27:14 PM)

I suggest at least 500 km west. his units will not gain experience and will be stretched until rr built and he catches up with your new lines which should be just around summer.

Then retreat another 500 plan on late 44 hold of old border.


This is so you do not get worn down via steady retreat, and always under pressure.




chaos45 -> RE: Retreat more (1/14/2018 7:33:24 PM)

Well hes making ground in the Crimea because he has a ton of good units there all those guard rifle corps---and he has one of the best soviet generals deployed there.....An odd place for one of the few really good soviet commanders...I would put in command of one of the guard armies where the real fighting is going on instead of a backwater.



STEF78 -> RE: Retreat more (1/14/2018 8:18:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

I suggest at least 500 km west. his units will not gain experience and will be stretched until rr built and he catches up with your new lines which should be just around summer.

Then retreat another 500 plan on late 44 hold of old border.


This is so you do not get worn down via steady retreat, and always under pressure.



I will not retreat this way for several reasons:
- russians have now NKPS units which can repair at least 20 miles per week, more in summer. Thus if I retreat on the Riga Vitebsk Dniepr line, he will be have to attack in strength late march or early may
- we are playing bitter end and I get VP for each turn I keep Moscow, Stalino, Rostov, Voronejh, Leningrad4
- 3rd and more important reason, I play to have fun and retreating without fight isn't fun



STEF78 -> RE: Retreat more (1/14/2018 8:19:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well hes making ground in the Crimea because he has a ton of good units there all those guard rifle corps---and he has one of the best soviet generals deployed there.....An odd place for one of the few really good soviet commanders...I would put in command of one of the guard armies where the real fighting is going on instead of a backwater.

I will let Stelteck answer to this post



chaos45 -> RE: Retreat more (1/14/2018 11:10:05 PM)

Stef so far you dont need to do a big retreat---you are crushing his tank forces....yes they replace the losses but that has to be a huge hit experience replacing 1k+ tanks a week. The battle you destroy 150 soviet tanks from only 2 tank corps will basically put those tank corps out of action for a week or two to recover near their full CV.

Your counterattack strategy might not work out to bad as long as your manpower reserves hold out. As What the soviets want is to get right next to your line and then hit you the next turn with the real sledgehammers which are guard rifle corps....so by smashing them in the face each turn and keeping that 1 hex buffer you are making it really difficult for the Soviets to bring their best initial assault units to bear on your weakened defensive lines.

Soviets smashing headfirst into strong defenses with tank/mech/cav corps really doesnt optimally work IMO...it may eventually wear down German defenses but its a huge cost in tanks and morale on units that you really want just winning all the time so they get more and more morale for those big breakthroughs....let the infantry corps take the set back hits IMO...and its one of the reasons Stelteck is having a very hard time making progress IMO.

After you dropped back the soviets should have halted all tank/mech units to fully recover and save truck use while the infantry corps and artillery corps closed on your new defense line and absorbed any counterattacks you had....then if you dont drop back again all those units sledgehammer you and the now rested tank/mech/cav smashed into the second line to force the line back again. Just my 2 cents. lol



M60A3TTS -> RE: Retreat more (1/15/2018 1:20:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well hes making ground in the Crimea because he has a ton of good units there all those guard rifle corps---and he has one of the best soviet generals deployed there.....An odd place for one of the few really good soviet commanders...I would put in command of one of the guard armies where the real fighting is going on instead of a backwater.


The Crimea is and has always been a sideshow. Likely that will not change, even into WiTE2. That is not to say the Crimea has no value to the Soviet, because it does. But launching a large force from there late game and achieving something tangible is almost unheard of for good reasons such as supply and difficulty of reinforcement along with the obvious bottlenecks.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Retreat more (1/15/2018 2:04:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well hes making ground in the Crimea because he has a ton of good units there all those guard rifle corps---and he has one of the best soviet generals deployed there.....An odd place for one of the few really good soviet commanders...I would put in command of one of the guard armies where the real fighting is going on instead of a backwater.


The Crimea is and has always been a sideshow. Likely that will not change, even into WiTE2. That is not to say the Crimea has no value to the Soviet, because it does. But launching a large force from there late game and achieving something tangible is almost unheard of for good reasons such as supply and difficulty of reinforcement along with the obvious bottlenecks.


Ya, I 100% concur M60.

Stelteck is using a shotgun approach to his offense. The battles may be intense but they are separate entities and containable and Germans can recover.



STEF78 -> RE: Retreat more (1/15/2018 7:17:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Stef so far you dont need to do a big retreat---you are crushing his tank forces....yes they replace the losses but that has to be a huge hit experience replacing 1k+ tanks a week. The battle you destroy 150 soviet tanks from only 2 tank corps will basically put those tank corps out of action for a week or two to recover near their full CV.


I agree with the "no big retreat strategy" but I'm rather desesperated not seeing a significant decline of the amount of russian AFV.
Maybe Stelteck is right. He is short of Manpower and uses the tools he can afford.


quote:


Your counterattack strategy might not work out to bad as long as your manpower reserves hold out. As What the soviets want is to get right next to your line and then hit you the next turn with the real sledgehammers which are guard rifle corps....so by smashing them in the face each turn and keeping that 1 hex buffer you are making it really difficult for the Soviets to bring their best initial assault units to bear on your weakened defensive lines.

Manpower isn't yet an issue (-48k turn 137) but I'm really short of trucks

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Mw5xdpN.jpg[/img]
.
I try to avoid stacks of rifle corps in front of my line at the beginning of turn but there are some places where I give no ground (Moscow/Kalinin)

quote:


Soviets smashing headfirst into strong defenses with tank/mech/cav corps really doesnt optimally work IMO...it may eventually wear down German defenses but its a huge cost in tanks and morale on units that you really want just winning all the time so they get more and more morale for those big breakthroughs....let the infantry corps take the set back hits IMO...and its one of the reasons Stelteck is having a very hard time making progress IMO.

True but Stelteck has a huge amount of tank corps, thus he can burn some of them to create the hole in my lines. I fear the coming summer...

quote:


After you dropped back the soviets should have halted all tank/mech units to fully recover and save truck use while the infantry corps and artillery corps closed on your new defense line and absorbed any counterattacks you had....then if you dont drop back again all those units sledgehammer you and the now rested tank/mech/cav smashed into the second line to force the line back again. Just my 2 cents. lol

Stelteck intensively uses his tank corps, no halt is allowed....



STEF78 -> RE: Retreat more (1/15/2018 7:20:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well hes making ground in the Crimea because he has a ton of good units there all those guard rifle corps---and he has one of the best soviet generals deployed there.....An odd place for one of the few really good soviet commanders...I would put in command of one of the guard armies where the real fighting is going on instead of a backwater.


The Crimea is and has always been a sideshow. Likely that will not change, even into WiTE2. That is not to say the Crimea has no value to the Soviet, because it does. But launching a large force from there late game and achieving something tangible is almost unheard of for good reasons such as supply and difficulty of reinforcement along with the obvious bottlenecks.


Ya, I 100% concur M60.

Stelteck is using a shotgun approach to his offense. The battles may be intense but they are separate entities and containable and Germans can recover.

On the other side, I have to send reinforcements here that would be very useful on the major fronline...



Stelteck -> RE: Retreat more (1/15/2018 6:12:00 PM)

Interesting comments on this thread.

I decided during summer 1943 to put no brake on my offensive because i thought i can allow it, due to my huge stock pile of tanks, and also that i needed it due to my growing lack of victory points.
I also wanted to attrit the german army by causing at least 30K casualties each turn, feeling that the german army may not be able to sustain it.
But, looking at the data provided by Stef, i'am not sūre at all if it will work. I wonder where all these men come from.

Never mind it is the strategy and i intend to keep it. And it is fun.

My stockpile situation is the following :

- I have no more light tanks and cannot produce them, but i need only a little of them now for cavalry so nevermind.
- I have no stock off heavy tanks, but i have enough production to keep fighting if i stop creating new heavy tank regiments.
- I have no stock of medium and heavy SU (but enough for current use), but i have growing stock of SU-76 so the light SU regiment is my favorite support unit currently to attached to every corps i can find.

- I'am flooded with rocket truck but it is more a game design issue as i have few way to use them and few way to loose them. (My proposal would be to allow the attachment of rocket trucks to soviet corps, as an exception, unlike artillery regiments).

- My stocks of medium tanks have been cut by half, from 8000 to 4000, with a production of 300/400 each turn, which would be enough to fill my ranks if i switch to conservative use of tank corps, but no need to do it today. Maybe it will crash middle 1944. I have no problem with that and it will be fun.

- My truck situation is 110K Over 190 needed due to blizzard (40K are damaged) and i loose a lot of them, but i will got 6770 each turn in 1944 and leaving blizzard will restore a good situation. (I saved 100% of my trucks factories and will have 6000 by lend lease).

Let's the tanks rolls !!!



STEF78 -> December 1943 (1/16/2018 7:50:23 PM)

Turn 132, 23th december 1942

In Crimea, Sevastopol's siege is over...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yfIRlZW.jpg[/img]

We keep on giving ground in the Don bend but counterattack east of Rostov

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NYuZ7IA.jpg[/img]

Near Lipetsk, 3 units are trapped...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Lc9ww34.jpg[/img]

... but rescued. Note the AFV losses, 222 on a single fight is a kind of record...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZxV4sYy.jpg[/img]

Some grinding in front of Moscow

[img]https://i.imgur.com/3sFqY5n.jpg[/img]

And the losses. 1428 russian's AFV destroyed in a single week! And 95k men vs 46k men lost, both too heavy!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lV9S7Hm.jpg[/img]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: December 1943 (1/16/2018 9:49:21 PM)

Steltecks Armored Corps are taking a beating.



chaos45 -> RE: December 1943 (1/17/2018 6:08:03 AM)

Really enjoying watching this game, not sure the Soviets can take those punishing Armor losses long term. 1k+ per week every week is just to many I think, eventually they will run out of T34s lol...

Some heavy manpower losses in some of those battle for the Germans...losing 1k+ men even in a winning battle is almost a loss...so looks like a tight game for both sides.



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