RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (Full Version)

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HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/8/2017 8:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm a bad&*^ dragon blasting away at a wall with dozens of petrified and panicked soldiers fleeing for their lives provides the right visual for +1 and Full Blizzard .. [8D]


And a ton of Para Units. If you aren't set up correctly as Germans this can be devastating.



Crackaces -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/8/2017 10:42:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm a bad&*^ dragon blasting away at a wall with dozens of petrified and panicked soldiers fleeing for their lives provides the right visual for +1 and Full Blizzard .. [8D]


And a ton of Para Units. If you aren't set up correctly as Germans this can be devastating.


Hmmm having a home rule "no paradrops" might be easier than contriving a strategy ;)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 10:49:08 PM)

Further development of this strat can be seen on a fine AAR by Dinglir at this location:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4323091

I will now go into my crazy thinking of how to defend Moscow from the invincible Panzers of the Germans.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 10:55:23 PM)

The Defense of Moscow I am looking to narrow the German attack vector to one path maybe two. From my experience most Germans have consolidated all of their Panzer into one huge Panzer ball and banged out attacks to the South of the City. As the Soviet player you HAVE to counterattack, you have to have units in reserve mode, and you absolutely have to have your forts built before they get there. Otherwise you could be in a hurtlocker. I would like to point out that the area around Moscow is "very" defensible with a great many level 4 towns :-) Those make my pee pee hard. Here is a map showing those level 4 towns around Moscow which need to be realized for defense.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/2CC631FA1793447292D96B11B304DE9D.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 11:05:11 PM)

Here is my map of the start of the HOLD AT ALL COST line in RED. Of course I'm doing a delaying action prior the Germans reaching this line with strategically positioned strong points to slow down an advance. This is just my line of "extremely" stiff fighting that the Germans have to fight every inch for beyond this line. The game gets real when the Germans reach this line. To the south is the Oka River which is a God send since this can pretty much be sealed off with not the best units but up and coming ones since the Germans normally have supply issues in the Tula Area along with trying to attack across a Major River. You can see an attack coming this way way in advance. So with the southern flank decently safe you can concentrate on the forward attack. I will cover the Kalinin area in the next post.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/2EE290A9E0D548A79A70F93D5FFF75C7.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 11:11:43 PM)

In the Kalinin to the East I defend the swamps and Kalinin. I will give ground in the area between Vyshny Volochek and Kalinin. I will also use scrap units to defend the river highlighted in red with orange dots & reinforce if Germans come this way. Having the advantage of interior lines here pays huge benefits. (Don't worry, I will have actual photos at the end)



[image]local://upfiles/53556/CBC5085EBDA84BFF8A2616B64C608DDE.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 11:16:12 PM)

The area marked with "yellow" stars need to have level 1 and or level 2 forts if at all possible by turn 7/8 depending on how quick the German advance is. The Green lines are areas that should have started forts and is your 2nd and 3rd line of defense build when you can and try to strive for lvl 1 forts by turn 12-14ish marked in Green. This is by no means an easy task with the current state of sappers

[image]local://upfiles/53556/1F5F1BBB2196437596384CA7C87905E7.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/26/2017 11:30:11 PM)

Here is an example of what most opponents face. Some will attack this grinding the whole way to the river in front of Moscow. Others will turn North to the area north of Kalinin. ******NOTE******* items blackened out for EwaldvonKleist, he loves such acts of markup!!!! ******NOTE**********

Yes, I have a few 6 str point Infantry Division ;)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/838E7B47950C4F0DA3F1463971EBD3D6.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/27/2017 2:52:24 PM)

quote:

Here is an example of what most opponents face. Some will attack this grinding the whole way to the river in front of Moscow. Others will turn North to the area north of Kalinin. ******NOTE******* items blackened out for EwaldvonKleist, he loves such acts of markup!!!! ******NOTE**********

Many religions have a place for bad people. And my theory is that those places have a kind of entrance hall, where semi bad guys have to spend the rest of their days. Among them are those who always eat the last cookie left, and people who blacken or whiten WitE sceens.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (9/27/2017 4:05:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

quote:

Here is an example of what most opponents face. Some will attack this grinding the whole way to the river in front of Moscow. Others will turn North to the area north of Kalinin. ******NOTE******* items blackened out for EwaldvonKleist, he loves such acts of markup!!!! ******NOTE**********

Many religions have a place for bad people. And my theory is that those places have a kind of entrance hall, where semi bad guys have to spend the rest of their days. Among them are those who always eat the last cookie left, and people who blacken or whiten WitE sceens.




Love you EwaldvonKleist ;-)



Crackaces -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/19/2017 9:48:11 PM)

Some thoughts now the new patch is out ...
How has the faster digging affected the defense? Can less strong units be dedicated from other locations or is the template as is ..?

One thing I have noticed is that the Soviet's have a random of what units but about 10 units are a CV of 10 or more at start. A chunk of these could be dedicated to Pskov leaving the route to Moscow less defended .. so Another thing you point out with your pictures . a lot of thought to channeling panzers using terrain and natural defense points ..

So I might propose that sending units to Pskov/Leningrad while leaving the center and South to a random defense can spell disaster .. a defense not for the faint of heart ..



hugh04 -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 1:41:18 AM)

As impressive as that defense is, the Axis can grind through if given enough time and if they have concentrated enough. It is critical that the Axis does not reach this line early. If there by turn 12 or 13, the Axis could have 6 or 7 turns to grind an assualt till the end of summer (end of turn 18). What is enough concentration? For me, I have been successful with most of 9th army and 2nd army supported by 2 full panzer armies (25+ infantry divisions and 16-18 panzer divisions). The panzer armies will have to do deliberate attacks for multiple turns before a break through is possible. 4th army can support but for me focuses on the briansk/orel/tula axis to pin soviets in this area and support the flank of the drive to moscow. If panzers from leningrad and model's Irst corp can redeply, moscow is in grave danger.

The run to the east defense in the center does not delay the german enough in my opinion and only works if the axis fails to concentrate enough and gets distracted protecting his flanks. The soviets should not be afraid of taking 3 million casualties in the summer and risking some encirclements in the center is well worth it if enough delay is gained. The south is the place to run not the center, in my view. I will grant that a high level of Axis skill is needed for this to work.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 12:49:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hugh04

As impressive as that defense is, the Axis can grind through if given enough time and if they have concentrated enough. It is critical that the Axis does not reach this line early. If there by turn 12 or 13, the Axis could have 6 or 7 turns to grind an assualt till the end of summer (end of turn 18). What is enough concentration? For me, I have been successful with most of 9th army and 2nd army supported by 2 full panzer armies (25+ infantry divisions and 16-18 panzer divisions). The panzer armies will have to do deliberate attacks for multiple turns before a break through is possible. 4th army can support but for me focuses on the briansk/orel/tula axis to pin soviets in this area and support the flank of the drive to moscow. If panzers from leningrad and model's Irst corp can redeply, moscow is in grave danger.

The run to the east defense in the center does not delay the german enough in my opinion and only works if the axis fails to concentrate enough and gets distracted protecting his flanks. The soviets should not be afraid of taking 3 million casualties in the summer and risking some encirclements in the center is well worth it if enough delay is gained. The south is the place to run not the center, in my view. I will grant that a high level of Axis skill is needed for this to work.



Yup yup yup, any defense can be broken in 41 like I mentioned a few times in different post. Just time and effort to do so. As for the Bryansk/Orel/Tula axis of attack there is one major issue going that way, supply. Plus any attack coming from the south of Moscow towards Moscow has to cross the Oka. IMO it is easier to cut Moscow from the North that way you can use your troops either for Moscow or further cut off Leningrads' rail line. But that is just my two cents & that money in todays world doesn't buy much ;-)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 1:07:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

So I might propose that sending units to Pskov/Leningrad while leaving the center and South to a random defense can spell disaster .. a defense not for the faint of heart ..



Aye, not for the faint of heart. But again my basis is to hold Leningrad at the cost of Moscow. Also there is defense in the South just not up close and personal with the Germans but more of keeping Germans on a supply leash. It all boils down to who, what, where, when, and how. Who I am playing, what I will do, where I will defend, when I will defend, and how I will do it. All those variables make for an interesting game and this is just a guide to either use parts and pieces or not use of your own accord. After the fact of having seen this it is "much" easier to pull the defense apart. (Joe Billings quote on his signature comes to mind, "All understanding comes after the fact" quoted by Soren Kierkegaard ;-) When it was first encountered many would just slip to the east towards Moscow.




Crackaces -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 2:46:17 PM)

My main reason for my post is to provide a word of warning for the newbie. The defense you propose is quite sophisticated on many dimensions. There are concepts like keeping the Soviets engaged with German armor low on supply and knowing when those concepts are likely to be relevant and when certain operational maneuvers are dangerous leading to a lot of heartache. Worse, a game ending on turn 8, 9 or 10 ....




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 3:20:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

My main reason for my post is to provide a word of warning for the newbie. The defense you propose is quite sophisticated on many dimensions. There are concepts like keeping the Soviets engaged with German armor low on supply and knowing when those concepts are likely to be relevant and when certain operational maneuvers are dangerous leading to a lot of heartache. Worse, a game ending on turn 8, 9 or 10 ....




Yup yup, you are correct



Nix77 -> RE: Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov (12/20/2017 5:32:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One thing I have noticed is that the Soviet's have a random of what units but about 10 units are a CV of 10 or more at start.


This is really not the case in many game starts. Soviet starting morale has really wild swings, and I don't think there's a "pool" of morale points that get distributed to the units. You just might have a really bad start, or a really good one.



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