RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (Full Version)

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Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:04:26 PM)

Hi,

We are posting the AAR one turn behind where the game actually is.



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:16:14 PM)

Axis Turn 16

Around Leningrad one can see that AGN continues to inch closer to its objective in the north as well as claw forward through the terrain east of the Volkhov. Importantly, AGN MPs have begun cresting 30 regularly in recent turns.

Winter stop line positions have been decided on for AGN.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/D301FC0960E542F3A9D1B420B83E1527.jpg[/image]



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:28:13 PM)

East of Smolensk, the Salient has evolved into more of a large dimple in the Soviet line where interesting things are happening. Vyazma is projected to be taken next week, but very strong enemy forces are before Moscow. The Luftwaffe has been busy but since OKH altered their mission parameters more planes and pilots are surviving week to week. The Axis has now encountered three Guards infantry divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/F2C5752E0A0841DD85AF7C1C4540ACDE.jpg[/image]



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:34:38 PM)

4 Army now fully across the river.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/9C438D7A0153454AA07887497B3681F3.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:37:30 PM)

From the looks of the last picture it looks like you left the infantry inside the Panzer corps of 2nd Panzer Group?



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:41:37 PM)

AGS has so many objectives that this week positions are set to exploit any one of several; execution to depend on Soviet dispositions next week. The Abwehr objected to this shot being posted.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/47E0084A7841416CB628C90299D5C4D5.jpg[/image]



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:48:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

From the looks of the last picture it looks like you left the infantry inside the Panzer corps of 2nd Panzer Group?


When I saw how dense his forward defense was turning out to be, yes.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:50:16 PM)

I thought it looked like a pincer offensive in the south was in mind but it looked like there was no support to get a breakthrough off the ground

Panzers as glorious as they are cannot both break through main lines of defence, depth and encircle on a large scale you
Infantry are great to smash through to the squishy underbelly for them first!



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:52:25 PM)

Ground losses. Not at all happy with the casualty picture the last few turns.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/B8059AC1F383469E858AA974D17CEBD5.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:53:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

From the looks of the last picture it looks like you left the infantry inside the Panzer corps of 2nd Panzer Group?


When I saw how dense his forward defense was turning out to be, yes.


Many keep them in separate corps though - if the motorised and infantry move apart there is no way to get corps to supply them both. Did you ever find it was impossible to keep both infantry and armour within 5 hexes of the HQ - and keep the motorised going as far as you wanted to?



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 6:53:57 PM)

Air losses. On the other hand, Luftwaffe has its act more together.

[image]local://upfiles/50891/AF131CC2339F4CF1976CBA08C6075AD1.jpg[/image]



Twigster -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 7:01:11 PM)

quote:

Many keep them in separate corps though - if the motorised and infantry move apart there is no way to get corps to supply them both. Did you ever find it was impossible to keep both infantry and armour within 5 hexes of the HQ - and keep the motorised going as far as you wanted to?


Yes, I did once or twice. I definitely can see the benefit to having the infantry in separate corps.

quote:

I thought it looked like a pincer offensive in the south was in mind but it looked like there was no support to get a breakthrough off the ground

Panzers as glorious as they are cannot both break through main lines of defence, depth and encircle on a large scale you
Infantry are great to smash through to the squishy underbelly for them first!


In retrospect now I see that I have played it too cautiously- I was so worried about having my panzers cut off by the Soviets that I did not allow them really to stay well ahead of the infantry.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/6/2017 7:31:31 PM)

You have an enormous amount of Admin points saved up. If you haven't already done this, you should start reorganizing your army (many army/AG HQs are overloaded) and install better leaders.
You also have most airbases alone on a hexagon. Every hexagon can be bombed twice, so if you stack three airbases on a single hexagon, your opponent can only get 1/3 of the bombing runs per air base. Its important for the survival of the Luftwaffe.



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 6:09:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

You have an enormous amount of Admin points saved up. If you haven't already done this, you should start reorganizing your army (many army/AG HQs are overloaded) and install better leaders.
You also have most airbases alone on a hexagon. Every hexagon can be bombed twice, so if you stack three airbases on a single hexagon, your opponent can only get 1/3 of the bombing runs per air base. Its important for the survival of the Luftwaffe.

I've been striking his air bases to get his planes flying but I haven't been able to get significant kills on the ground.



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 6:25:25 AM)

Axis turn 16 saw a continuation of the offensive towards Sviritsa. His armor is pushing forward but only gaining a hex or two each turn. My 55th Army regained supplies and was able to present a stiff defense behind two river lines in that region. It is possible that he will take the town next turn. If not, we will have the mud turns to rebuild our forces before the next exciting chapter in the snow.

A renewed German push to the south of Lake Ilmen has driven Northwest Front back to the hills. There’s no armor here, though, so no fear of being cut off. Instead, a tough fight awaits the fascist invaders, with no target worthy of the name behind our lines.

The Luftwaffe in the north has been active again with numerous interdictions and participation in the battles of the preceding turn.


[image]local://upfiles/56634/93FC24C0BEAB4B468D12E3DF969CC4C4.jpg[/image]



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 6:26:09 AM)

In the center, tanks from the salient pushed south into the 3rd Army area of operations. Third Army dislikes being harassed by fascist tanks and launched an aggressive counter-attack. I was able to surround a tank division and force it to rout, but without significant losses. Nevertheless, the line was restored at the end of the day. The main German armored force was able to take Vyazma, but could not go on beyond that point towards Moscow. Bryansk Front withdrew to previously prepared lines along the Snov and upper Sudost Rivers in front of Bryansk. Given how slowly they have been moving, the German infantry will probably not be able to press us very hard before mud.


[image]local://upfiles/56634/3001C748BD074B608E4DB56E9DC5EA63.jpg[/image]



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 6:27:05 AM)

In the south, the German armor continued its push along the right bank of the Dnepr. There have been no crossings as yet. There was a small push across the river near Kirovi Rog, which I turned away with a counter-attack. Nothing at either Kiev or near the mouth of the Dnepr. Odessa continues to suffer the occasional attack from Romanian infantry. I have sent in real infantry forces of my own by sea to bolster the garrison, which originally consisted of mostly cavalry and airborne troops. The cavalry has been evacuated and sent to cover the Denpr crossings upstream of the German lodgment.


[image]local://upfiles/56634/DFD8678413D9433FA195068C5DB68ABA.jpg[/image]



SparkleyTits -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 6:42:37 AM)

If Odessa holds that is gonna make for some incredibly fun reading come winter!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 12:54:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

If Odessa holds that is gonna make for some incredibly fun reading come winter!


No German Infantry or Armor in the area per this photo so Odessa will hold.



Telemecus -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 1:06:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
If Odessa holds that is gonna make for some incredibly fun reading come winter!

No German Infantry or Armor in the area per this photo so Odessa will hold.


Although it is close enough to working rail lines that you can put a battle group of arriving infantry, en route to the Eastern front, together to do the job.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 1:23:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
If Odessa holds that is gonna make for some incredibly fun reading come winter!

No German Infantry or Armor in the area per this photo so Odessa will hold.


Although it is close enough to working rail lines that you can put a battle group of arriving infantry, en route to the Eastern front, together to do the job.



The Germans will need to do this pretty quickly otherwise this could turn in to be a big pain in the azz come winter ;-)



SparkleyTits -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 7:25:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
If Odessa holds that is gonna make for some incredibly fun reading come winter!

No German Infantry or Armor in the area per this photo so Odessa will hold.


Although it is close enough to working rail lines that you can put a battle group of arriving infantry, en route to the Eastern front, together to do the job.



The Germans will need to do this pretty quickly otherwise this could turn in to be a big pain in the azz come winter ;-)


I was trying to nicely hint that it is a problem that needs to be dealt with



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 9:13:26 PM)

If he puts some effort into it he should be able to clear Odessa during the snow turns. I don't know what it would be like to have that as a base for counter-attacks during the blizzard turns. So far, I don't have much of a strike force in there but there is plenty of transport capacity to move guys in there if there is an opening.

I think with variable weather it is more likely to have snow or mud down there during the winter. Which would slow up my counter-offensive just as it slows down his attacks.

My principal goal was to keep the German infantry from advancing as quickly in the Dnepr bend. You'll notice that there are only two or three divisions, and only one German, on the southern side of the Dnepr bulge.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/7/2017 9:44:41 PM)

Well IF Odessa holds it means come winter you have another front which Axis has been forced to spread his forces along causing a rather dramatic degradation in his defensive capabilies in the south and an increase in your offensive capabilities there which translates into more attrional/combat losses for him (Of which they already seem heavy from manning a fairly constant/static line and slugging offensives), more wins (guards) and ultimately and most dramatically could result in the lose of an absolute tonne of hexes, threatens the integrity of Rumania remaining on the correct side or god forbid the lose of divisions depending on how you chose to pounce on the situation

If you want to be in a position where you can both continue to play and enjoy yourself come 42 I personally would definitely prioritise Odessa over all other objectives in the south



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/8/2017 2:50:03 AM)

I'm concerned about the doom-filled tone of the posts here. The Axis is by no means dead. I am just as inexperienced as Twigster. My winter offensive will no doubt be clumsy as his summer offensive was - I have the advantage of learning from his mistakes but there are plenty left for me to make. Let's not convince Twigster that he should pack it in.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/8/2017 3:16:56 AM)

I apologise if my post seemed that way mate but I only laid out a set of theorectical situations that haven't happened yet
I was not fortelling a definite dread filled future as it is easily solvable

I merely meant to help pass some advice to help you both learn and enjoy your game into 42 and beyond



STEF78 -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/8/2017 8:56:38 AM)

Some advices for Twigster:

Don't give up! The 3 snow turns will be decisive and you can still strongly improve your position to have a better blizzard.

you need to take Leningrad or at least create a corridor to get the finns South of lake Ladoga1)
During the mud turns, I would destroy the port of Sviritsa. it's only a level 2 port. It can be achieved easily. Units in Leningrad will become isolated.
On the same time, I would gather 1st corps Under Model command and attack on the first snow turn the hex shown on the map. This hex would have been bombed with Stukas twice per turn during mud turns. The Pzd immediatly behind will exploit the breakthrough. Don't use them for the first assault!

[img]https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/864954help.jpg[/img]

Odessa
You need to reduce this bulge!
Take the Pzd from the Dniepr bend and 2 good corps from the front line and hit as hard as you can during the 3 snow turns.

Other sectors
No winter offensive!
Dig in, create 2 lines deep in the north, 3 lines deep in the South. Avoid bulges. Set the Pzd not involved in fights on refit.
See where the russian cav units are. It's where he will hit you.

and have both fun!



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/8/2017 4:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I apologise if my post seemed that way mate but I only laid out a set of theorectical situations that haven't happened yet
I was not fortelling a definite dread filled future as it is easily solvable

I merely meant to help pass some advice to help you both learn and enjoy your game into 42 and beyond

Yes, thanks, I appreciate your ideas. I am looking forward to playing this into 1942. It has been my experience with other east front games that the real German punch comes in 1942. They have the whole good weather period to make mileage. The flood of Russian reinforcements that bolster their defenses in September-October 1941 are not there in 1942 - what they have at the beginning is pretty much what they are going to have throughout. The Germans get significantly better in spring 1942 - mechanized divisions instead of motorized in their armored corps, more aircraft, better tanks.

I'd say if the Germans are stuck on the Denpr in October 1942, it is time for the German player to consider packing it in. Not now though. In fact, it could be argued (though I don't know if it works in this game) that the Germans are smart not to go too far in 1941. Falling a few miles short of major objectives may be worse for them than maintaining a solid line and being prepared for the next year.



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/10/2017 11:56:17 PM)

Our game has been on hiatus for about a week, so I decided to post my latest turn's screenshots and discussion, at least to tell the story of our game up to the beginning of the mud.

The last turn before the predicted onset of the rasputitsa saw a strong Axis offensive in the northern region turned away by heroic resistance at Sviritsa. Air resupply of Leningrad cost about 25 bombers to Axis fighter interception that for some reason my fighters, despite being set to night missions, could not counter-intercept. I’d love some pointers about how this is supposed to work, along with help with the concept of airhead supply.

Continuing German pressure south of Lake Ilmen has now driven Northwest Front back to the fortified positions in the hills.


[image]local://upfiles/56634/3E90A91F425E49C6BCF6C3CE3F441357.jpg[/image]



thedoctorking -> RE: Twig's War (Twigster Axis, thedoctorking Soviet) (12/10/2017 11:57:11 PM)

To the south, the big German bulge in the center developed a southward salient. Counterattacks by Western Front were unable to cut off the spearhead. I contained it as much as possible and tightened up my position, hanging on to my own salient in the expectation of pressing forward after the roads ice up. Bryansk Front has reached its next line of resistance, while the German infantry is still advancing. Western Front aviation was nearly at a critical point for fatigue and many air groups withdrew to the national reserve – lack of air power probably hampered my counter-attack.



[image]local://upfiles/56634/D2CCE69C6E3A4F39A8B304FE26BAEEC3.jpg[/image]



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