RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/2/2018 8:34:52 PM)

Here's a closeup of the situation just north of Leningrad and as you can see the Finns
had to break down their units into pieces in order to have enough units to stand in
the front lines. There are still gaps but for the most part the Soviets are contained.
[image]local://upfiles/16287/DE6E8EB52DF2473C8B126A75D5DB8708.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/3/2018 1:01:55 PM)

Here's the T16 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C548238F7EFE41C6BA75A32DD27C28C8.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/3/2018 7:01:24 PM)

quote:

had to break down their units into pieces in order to have enough units to stand in
the front lines. There are still gaps but for the most part the Soviets are contained


Why is it important to have a continous frontline when on the offensive in TOAW?
Don't own TOAW and come from WitE where having gaps in the frontline is standard praxis for the Axis in 1941. If you know both games, I am curious which differences in the game mechanics cause this?
I highly appreciate your&all others Eastern Front AARs here, well done with great graphical presentation.
Thank you for all the effort Put into it!
Regards



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/3/2018 8:55:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
quote:

had to break down their units into pieces in order to have enough units to stand in
the front lines. There are still gaps but for the most part the Soviets are contained

Why is it important to have a continous frontline when on the offensive in TOAW?
Don't own TOAW and come from WitE where having gaps in the frontline is standard praxis for
the Axis in 1941. If you know both games, I am curious which differences in the game mechanics
cause this?
I highly appreciate your&all others Eastern Front AARs here, well done with great graphical
presentation.
Thank you for all the effort Put into it!
Regards

Hey There EwaldvonKleist dude. Thanks for your question. The reason that I like to have a
contigous front line is because I don't want the Soviet units to advance through my lines
into my backfield. Also, contiguous front lines just look better. I'm old fashioned and
grew up with contiguous front lines and just prefer them now.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/3/2018 10:39:27 PM)

Totally off topic but something I just discovered is the configuration of your game
tools. This is the way I arrange them with the little dialogs on the lower left and
the bigger ones on the far right with the mini-map at the bottom. I've analysed the
way I play and I've found that I don't always need to move the selected unit so if I
don't then I just left-click on the "next unit" button and then right-click on the
mini-map to center the map on the selected unit. And then repeat the process for the
next unit in the OOB. So I've arranged the game controls to where I need them and I'm
wondering if there's anybody else who has found a good configuration and would want
to share it with us.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F0777A8B5BBA4213B491AD6D5973E396.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/4/2018 9:53:54 AM)

Here's the supply situation just to the NE of Kiev and it appears to be adequate but
the okie dokie areas taper off quickly and at the tip of the spear it needs some. I
noticed that I'm fighting over the river crossings still. When the rivers freeze over
this winter I won't need the crossings.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/26A3375A1A9E465FBFCAE230014F1EF5.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/4/2018 3:06:03 PM)

Here's the moves of T16:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/91F58ED1466242BABCCDE179ED9DFA5B.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 12:59:56 AM)

Here's the northern front lines looking south and as you can see there are places
where the supply is fine and there are places that have a need for higher levels
but the effort is being expended and progress is being made.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/152170BF29E04ADF8CF3A10E709A789A.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:15:19 AM)

There's a place just south of Murmansk that I'm trying to crack and they have some
Soviet ships in support so I flew some fighters and a squadron of Stuka's up here
from the Pskov area using enough MP's for three turns worth of combat. I'll wait
a bit before using it operationally. But I'm after those CL's and DD's or whatever
he's got there. And then once the ship is gone I'll concentrate on that Soviet stack.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EBA0F2DACAAD4C33AFD42DDEA41E497D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:31:00 AM)

Smolensk:
I tried to get a Pincer operation started but the guys that were going to tke part came
down with the grey flu and are now resting on the places where the supply is the highest,
along the rails. They will be ready in a couple of turns, meanwhile the operation to
surround all that Soviet stuff and kill it is on hold for about two weeks, maybe four
turns or so.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0EEDA80ECBFC43D0867218942332D986.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:42:50 AM)

Porkov:
I've reached a stalemate I think. There's a Soviet armor unit that brokethrough my
lines and I've surrounded him almost and for now I seem to have stopped his rampage
in my backfield, now I need some Panzers to take him out for me. I've got Panzers
resting to the south of this position and I'll need a couple of turns to get it here.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3106E2A9A1704783B7E29D36383D163D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 6:24:58 AM)

Kiev:
I've crossed the river north of Kiev and I'm streaming a lot of units south trying to
trap as many Soviet units as I can up against the river before they can move very far.
I'm probing the city of Kiev trying to kill Soviet units with lots of arty support.
They are falling back but my losses are light. Further south of Kiev there's a couple
of river crossings but they are so heavily guarded I'm just holding what I've got for
now. There's a fierce battle south of the crossings just north of D-town and the
Hungarians are helping out but the Slavics are resting. The Italians are closing in on
Z-town and D-town.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3D8C7013FAF04A0EB3F7C9697D0FB873.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 6:37:15 AM)

Crimea:
And here's the southern part of the above post. You can see where the fierce battles
are taking place and I'm pushing to get into the Crimea and there's lots of movement
and several attacks.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/5EA68D2473454EFEB88D11138F0151B2.jpg[/image]



DanNeely -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 10:43:53 AM)

Just for curiosity, I looked at where your current positions were vs in your previous game, and comparing your T17 start from that game to your end of T16 from this one, it looks like you're a bit ahead of your last play through everywhere except the Smolensk area.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 11:27:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanNeely
Just for curiosity, I looked at where your current positions were vs in your previous game,
and comparing your T17 start from that game to your end of T16 from this one, it looks like
you're a bit ahead of your last play through everywhere except the Smolensk area.

I guess I've been inspired by Jukipo and his AAR. I've been reading it and comparing his
accomplishments to what I've done and I'm amazed and overwhelmed and I'm trying to duplicate
what he's doing. In "Triumph or Tragedy", his AAR, I've started over from the beginning and
really studied what info there is and comparing and contrasting.

I'm tempted to start over and see if I can't be hyperagressive like that. It's inspiring.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 12:29:30 PM)

I thought I'd take a quick peek at the losses so far and I feel like my losses are about normal
for this period of the game and actually I'm in pretty good shape. I'm aiming for a floor of
about 30K in HRS's and there's some slack in my policy but I'm comfortable wth what's happening.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/8B0DC05A2D304BF0BAFC416E06F0F0AC.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 12:42:18 PM)

Here's what I'm proposing to run some pincer prongs from the Z-town area and from
above Kiev and meet out near Kharkov to include the city and trap all that Soviet
equipment and troops up against the river. I'm expecting the supply to be terrible
out near Kharkov so I'm not planning on going muhc further east for right now.
I want to go as far east as the supply will allow.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/78AE4D5C23674F5E8FDB2647C2A016D5.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:31:16 PM)

I've forced the entrance to the Crimea and gained a hex or two and now I need to find
the 11th Army units and get them down here to do an advance on Sevastopol. They are
nearby and can be here in about 4 turns or so.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3E10FC15F6174EF8810988B1F477157C.jpg[/image]



marion61 -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:37:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I guess I've been inspired by Jukipo and his AAR. I've been reading it and comparing his
accomplishments to what I've done and I'm amazed and overwhelmed and I'm trying to duplicate
what he's doing. In "Triumph or Tragedy", his AAR, I've started over from the beginning and
really studied what info there is and comparing and contrasting.

I'm tempted to start over and see if I can't be hyperagressive like that. It's inspiring.


His mastering rail repair is the key to his being able to continue the attack. Only once, when he got near Orsha did he have such low supply he couldn't continue the attack for a turn or two, and then during the mud turns. He's done really well capturing Leningrad in 41, and he may even capture Moscow soon, so overall he's done really well.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 1:41:40 PM)

quote:


His mastering rail repair is the key to his being able to continue the attack. Only once,
when he got near Orsha did he have such low supply he couldn't continue the attack for a
turn or two, and then during the mud turns. He's done really well capturing Leningrad in 41,
and he may even capture Moscow soon, so overall he's done really well.

I agree with all of the above and I'm thinking that somebody ought to sticky his AAR because
that's the way it's supposed to be done. I'm really impressed.



Jukipo -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 3:08:13 PM)

quote:

I guess I've been inspired by Jukipo and his AAR. I've been reading it and comparing his
accomplishments to what I've done and I'm amazed and overwhelmed and I'm trying to duplicate
what he's doing. In "Triumph or Tragedy", his AAR, I've started over from the beginning and
really studied what info there is and comparing and contrasting.

I'm tempted to start over and see if I can't be hyperagressive like that. It's inspiring.


The first 10 turns of this scenario are the most important. It's essential to move forward as fast as possible. You may think it's a good strategy to conserve supplies or units. Wrong.

You may think it’s not a big deal if you take Smolensk a week or two later. It is a HUGE difference. The enemy strength is growing every turn. The longer it takes, the harder it will be.

In the center the Smolensk is the key. If you don’t take it fast, you are fatally behind. Every move you make from turn 1 should focus on Smolensk. Supply situation improves when the city is captured.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 6:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jukipo
The first 10 turns of this scenario are the most important. It's essential to move
forward as fast as possible. You may think it's a good strategy to conserve supplies
or units. Wrong.

You may think it’s not a big deal if you take Smolensk a week or two later. It is a
HUGE difference. The enemy strength is growing every turn. The longer it takes, the
harder it will be.

In the center the Smolensk is the key. If you don’t take it fast, you are fatally
behind. Every move you make from turn 1 should focus on Smolensk. Supply situation
improves when the city is captured.

Thanks for the info. Good to know. I don't disagree with any of it. Thanks for posting.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 7:23:40 PM)

Here's the T18 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0956EBB453854F448E93143A8EA6EE43.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/5/2018 10:33:19 PM)


quote:


Hey There EwaldvonKleist dude. Thanks for your question. The reason that I like to have a
contigous front line is because I don't want the Soviet units to advance through my lines
into my backfield. Also, contiguous front lines just look better. I'm old fashioned and
grew up with contiguous front lines and just prefer them now.


Thank you for your reply.
quote:

"The reason that I like to have a
contigous front line is because I don't want the Soviet units to advance through my lines
into my backfield."

I am unaware of the movement costs and abilities in TOAW but in WitE this would have been what the Axis player wants the Soviets to do. By trying to get through the line, they ususally have to fatigue themself on the move, leave some nice terrain and give up on fortifications. In fact, they set up themself to be crushed or encircled.
The weaker side trying to get into the rear area of the stronger side will ususally end in their encirclement and destruction.
But again TOAW mechanics might render this WitE wisdom useless and dangerous.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 12:36:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
quote:


"The reason that I like to have a contigous front line is because I don't want the
Soviet units to advance through my lines into my backfield."

I am unaware of the movement costs and abilities in TOAW but in WitE this would have
been what the Axis player wants the Soviets to do. By trying to get through the line,
they ususally have to fatigue themself on the move, leave some nice terrain and give
up on fortifications. In fact, they set up themself to be crushed or encircled.
The weaker side trying to get into the rear area of the stronger side will ususally
end in their encirclement and destruction. But again TOAW mechanics might render
this WitE wisdom useless and dangerous.

It's been literally years since I've played WITE and I'm sure what you describe
is accurate and everything but the way the zone of controls work in TOAW it's
advantageous for the Axis units to run up against the Soviet units because it might
prevent them from any further movement in their turn. You don't want that to happen
to the Axis units however. Movement is the best weapon the Panzers have and things that
hinder that are to be avoided if possible. I like the way that's modeled and the way
it works in-game. There's a reason that D21 is my favorite scenario.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 4:31:56 AM)

Somewhere south of Moscow in the middle of nowhere I found a hole in the Soviet lines
and drove the 4th and 7th Panzer divisions through it and now I have a bubble in the
lines. I'm not sure what this will develop into but I'm trying to roll up the Soviet
lines by driving through their backfield cutting off the supply and reinforcements to
those units. I think I may have just enough units to make this work this time.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FA69EDB0907A4067868CB2AD5EDD8CCE.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 5:02:07 AM)

This is what the south looks like now. I declare the space between the rivers is
cleared and now the troops can start heading to the east side of the river. Some
to go around north of Kiev and some of them through the D-town exit.

With the entrance to the Crimea cracked as well there's places for the Rumanians to
go and then some. I'm sending the Italians and Hungarians to Kharkov and everybody
else will start making the great perimeter especially favoring those Soviet units
up against the river. I need to kill those soonest.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C9EFA1470D88466B87E0BAA4701D9DF3.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 12:10:12 PM)

Odessa finally fell. I'm going to pound the single hex that the Soviets occupy so as
to soften the target a little bit. I don't want the final takedown to cost a lot.
I've flown the Stuka's down here to the south to see if I can't eventually sink the
BB's that lurk around Sevastopol. If I can't get to the BB's maybe I can get after
the other boat units. The Stuka is my best anti-ship weapons system.

I've noticed that the aircraft are still way too green to suit me so I've been
assigning designated missions for them. Mostly against arty then HQ's then armor in
that order. Also, I'm on the lookout for a good chance to do an airstrike on an
airfield without any fighters present. I'm looking mostly for heavy bombers but any
old bomber will do.

Things seem to be going wel so that means I'm forgetting something important.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CC5F40A2E17E4F27984B5AF3921E2772.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 12:24:17 PM)

Here's what's going on just south of Kiev right now. There's a lot of divisions that
are on their way north to get onto the east side of the river just north of Kiev and
start isolating the Soviet units up against the river.

The Soviets thought they ought to try to hinder the advance and drove some people
over the crossings and into my line of sight. I have been pushing and shoving and
I think I've stemmed the flow for a little while. I've been backing up my river
crossing defenders with a lot of arty and I'm fairly confident that they won't
surprise me with a breakthrough. Besides, there's lots of divisions moving north
past these positions that can lend a hand in a pinch.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EC68385A08274311AAF02B841E99594B.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The Sun Also Rises ( D21 ) (2/6/2018 1:31:12 PM)

Here's the T19 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/6CDED55231244486B85186CF34BEA6CF.jpg[/image]



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