RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (Full Version)

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Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 12:27:43 PM)

quote:

The Turks attacked one of my submarines nears the Bosporus after five minutes which start hostilities.




yeah that is a bit of a risk. I don't think I'll change anything, it doesn't happen every time for sure, often the Turks don't even detect the Kilos. But I think that if they did they would get a bit testy.


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AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 12:38:22 PM)

Straight line distance from Mangalia to the nearest corner of the western landing zone is 146 nm. To the furthest corner of the eastern zone is 160 nm.

The Pomorniks could get to both. From the nearer beaches they could just get back, but not from the further ones. From the further beach they can (barely, if they don't waste any time) return to Burgas in Bulgaria.

The Aists can make it to the beaches from Mangalia, but not back again. If they go to the nearer beach they can make it back to southern Bulgaria. Perhaps adding a 'recovery zone' dock there (representing a beach and fuel trucks) would work?

EDIT: Just saw your previous post. That works too. I haven't gotten far yet, so I'll move the fast convoys to the new starting location with the editor,and add an oiler in port for recovery.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 12:49:20 PM)

Great

The VTR Berezina was in the BSF, she is too small to be of use in the Med, carries only Gas fuel and only 2500 tons of it so it is perfect for the job. Will help out the missile boats if they do a high speed run as well.

Gives me somehting useful to do with that Romanian Frigate as well.

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Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 3:10:00 PM)

OK, here is Ver 1.4

You don't need to restart as long as you can work around the fuel issue for the hovercraft.

-fixed some Lua bits
-put in some NoNav Zones to try and help Turkish ships
-numbered the Spetz forces
-tweaked the briefing a bit
-moved the hovercraft closer and put in an AO to help
-a couple other minor bits.

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Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 5:07:04 PM)

I'm gonna restart and see how the nav zone does. My last one I had the mines laid and the ships were going past on land. Plus lots of them were totally hung up.

What is your intention on the spetsnaz - can I move them around? they are not on my side so I assume you intend for them to not be controlled. I've never understood what the game is supposed to be doing - it looks like you shouldn't be able to control them but you sort of can. I've always thought that was a bug.

Any tips on what the best target is for the as-4 kitchens? I am not familiar with them, since they had long range I used them on a couple Nike's, and a Radar or two. Then I had one left and used it on a runway to see what would happen and it damaged it fairly well. I'm thinking I wasted it on the radars, and maybe the Nikes were ok, but if I might be better off using them on the runways only? they seemed surprisingly invulnerable.

Also, any tips on the recon su-17 fitters? low altitude? high altitude? afterburner? what type of recon mission would I put it on? an air base? the coast line?



Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 5:54:59 PM)

oh look, a timer! cool. It should be repeatable, you can create as many as you like.



Maromak -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 6:13:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker
Any tips on what the best target is for the as-4 kitchens? I am not familiar with them, since they had long range I used them on a couple Nike's, and a Radar or two. Then I had one left and used it on a runway to see what would happen and it damaged it fairly well. I'm thinking I wasted it on the radars, and maybe the Nikes were ok, but if I might be better off using them on the runways only? they seemed surprisingly invulnerable.


I basically did the same thing. The ARM missiles (AS-5 and AS-6) were intercepted fairly easily by the Nikes when I tried using these so I used the AS-4s.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 6:58:28 PM)

The Spetsnaz are meant for recon. They are there to represent the preparation that the Sov special forces have been doing so that you have a lot of information on the target areas. They shouldn't be used for attacking anything. Their best strength is their stealth.

I use the AS-5 & 6 ARMs against the radars and not the Nikes. The Nikes without the radars are not very good, but if you shoot right at them with all the radars still operating they will get a few shots in. So Take out the radars and use SU-17s at low level high speed to bomb the crap out of the Nikes

The AS-4 Kitchens are like a transport truck full of explosives that make a big hole in a runway. If you get them in before the local air defense wakes up (like I said - take out the radars) they have a decent chance of doing a good job. One will close a runway, two will really close a runway, three makes a bigger hole. In my mind you have 9 runway/taxiways you should be aiming for - and 20 missiles.

The Su-17s are meant for high speed low altitude dump and run hits. The initial load is heavy on the AS-14 and some AS-12 ARMs, these need a bit of altitude (consider them like Mavericks) plus some CBs and Anti-runway bombs. I would use the CBs on the Nikes, the anti-runways to close any F-16 runways still operating (heavily escorted) the AS-12 to blind any remaining radars and the AS-14s to start taking on the AAA. Second run, load up on AS-14s take out more AAA then bombs, and more bombs to take out the army forces.
The Recon Su-17s are tough - they are vulnerable to a lot of ground fire but cannot really do their job from altitude. Use them cautiously until you have a good grip on the AAA (and there is a lot of it), once that happens they will really start showing you things.

I like that timer, will make it repeatable. Thanks.


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Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 7:05:21 PM)

that's great info, its hard playing an era/side that you are not familiar with.

So it is ok to move the spetz? is that intended?



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 7:19:27 PM)

Yeah I see now that you can, but that is not intended. The idea is that they have found the right spot to do their job. Especially the ones east of Istanbul, if you want to see the counter attacks coming in you will want to leave them there.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 10:07:37 PM)

quote:

Yeah I see now that you can, but that is not intended.


How can you move an unit of an allied side?

Ancalagon




Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 10:11:01 PM)

just like any other - highlight it and press f3 and give it a path. It never shows the path but the unit will follow it. I think you can also tell it to auto attack a unit with f1. Pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to do either.



SakiNoE -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 10:30:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker

just like any other - highlight it and press f3 and give it a path. It never shows the path but the unit will follow it. I think you can also tell it to auto attack a unit with f1. Pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to do either.

This is absolutely correct. In Don of a New Era you can very easily damage the Russian air defences with NATO's SOF. However, you can't control the speed at which they move from what I've seen, and sometimes they might not allow you to change their path. Not sure if the devs have been made aware of it though.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 10:47:49 PM)


quote:

This is absolutely correct. In Don of a New Era you can very easily damage the Russian air defences with NATO's SOF.


I'm fairly sure that it shouldn't work that way, you should post a report with a saved game in the tech support subforum.

quote:

I would use the CBs on the Nikes, the anti-runways to close any F-16 runways still operating


Also to keep this on topic I'm leaving here a little tip born from my own hard experience:

Don't use BetAB anti-runway bombs against any runway with heavy armor (2000m and longer). They are unable to damage them at all. Target them against runway-grade taxiways and runway access points, since they have only medium to no armor and can be damaged by them.

Ancalagon





SakiNoE -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/5/2019 11:36:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancalagon451


quote:

This is absolutely correct. In Don of a New Era you can very easily damage the Russian air defences with NATO's SOF.


I'm fairly sure that it shouldn't work that way, you should post a report with a saved game in the tech support subforum.


I could perhaps, but I enjoy my exploits :>



Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 12:05:55 AM)

I think the 5 Gds Recce Regt deserves a moment of silence for heroically going into battle while their escorts played a few extra games of Cribbage back at the base.

Should the WP bases all be one field? I get that they are single units, but could some of them be multi runways? There are so many planes trying to take off it is a little slow.



AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 12:09:43 AM)

The East, West, and South Headlands Cleared events all fired immediately when they became active at 15:00 Zulu, even though there are numerous NATO units in the area.

Could this be because the Unit Enters Area trigger only fires when a unit crosses the border, and since it's being used with the NOT modifier, no units cross the border and it immediately fires?


At any rate, 750 free points for me, before I fire a shot!



Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 12:27:12 AM)

I was wondering what that was.




Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 2:56:01 AM)

the path issue with the ships is still there.

I played around with it quite a bit and if you just have a little bit of the corner in a no nav zone it works ok-ish. But it has to be in a particular spot for some reason.
With a large no nav zone they seem to bounce into it and turnaround.

I'll post an example here and in the support part, but I think they already know about it. I deleted most of the units so it goes faster. I also moved the base and then put it back - not sure I put it back in the right place.

I like the mining aspect, but when the ships bounce all over and can drive over land in the straight it makes it a little hard to mine their path.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 12:08:41 PM)

Those events fired for me as well, thought I tweaked them so they wouldn't. There may be a problem with the 'Not' command.

I see what you did with the NoNav zones, you have the two, one on that south corner and another around the islands that doesn't apply to ships - is that needed?

What about the Bosporus West NNZ? Is that still needed?

The ships returning seem to follow the yellow line denoting the limit of the strait.

Very weird.




Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 3:51:26 PM)

the one on the islands isn't needed - though sometimes they have trouble there, but they seem to recover. I thought I deleted that one. The only one that really made a difference was the one on that corner, so the western one is not needed I don't think. I think it was actually causing troubles on the return trip.

That yellow line around the straight works well - what ever they are doing there seems good - except that the yellow line is well inland, so even if you mine the entire straight they can go right past it, and they do seem to follow edges.
I did get one boat to hit a mine, so maybe it is workable. Seems like you should warn the player though - maybe some tip on where the best place to mine is? on the southern end they all clip the corner on the eastern entry and seem to go between the island and the mainland east of it, not so sure on the top.

Subs and ships are great in open water, but add in coastlines and islands and the ai does some weird stuff that I don't think most people notice.



Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 4:46:25 PM)

isn't the problem with the Clearing Area event that it is based on a trigger of unit ENTERS area? there are no units entering the area. Unfortunately there is no NOT modifier on remains in area which is what I think you would want.

I think you could accomplish the same sort of thing only with a penalty - so using unit remains in area, nato, but only after a set time of when you think it should be cleared - and then every five minutes trigger or whatever, and if nato units are in the area you get a penalty of 10 points - so the longer they are not cleared the bigger the penalty. A little more of a give away that there are units there but that is no problem.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/6/2019 5:53:51 PM)

I think you're right - or I could just delete those events entirely since there are a couple others that will kick in.

Tx



Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/7/2019 5:50:08 AM)

there are a handful of false contacts around the straight that are at -66' and for some reason are visible from the air.
Ships still get stuck, I think my corner fix didn't work for where the base actually is. Maybe you should just move it down so it is below the the straight? not real but neither are the ships going in circles. Not 100% sure that would even work though.

Rapiers are killing me. Still learning, found a whole bunch of good air assets that I had forgot about. Whoops. Not being familiar with all the units hurts but I am getting there. Having a lot of trouble with strike escorts, they are always behind the bombers for some reason. That or going perpendicular to where they should be cause they are on some sort of intercept vector for an enemy 200 miles below that is going horizontally.

This is a great scenario, I really like it. Just wish the mining part worked better.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/7/2019 10:55:57 PM)

Interesting about the false contacts. I guess they can be considered wrecks near the surface?

Will be able to experiment next weekend with the Path issue. Am away at the moment.

You can control your escorts a bit more, there is a tab on the mission window to give them tighter reigns.


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Whicker -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/8/2019 5:15:45 AM)

I played around with the minimal example I made, and the best luck I had was if the base was all the way down to the point - west of 29E, no change to the orientation. I tried putting the base on the hump right on 29E and it worked if there were no contacts - so they would go to the patrol area no problem, but when they had contacts they try to go up a bit east of the straight and get stuck in those little islands. Since they will have contacts, down on the point was the best bet. No Nav zones not needed.

Once they had contacts and could make it up to engage them you figure out that they probably need the doctrine to rtb when the primary weapon is out - otherwise they stay up there but don't have much fight in them.



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/11/2019 12:32:09 PM)

OK will be back this weekend and able to work on this one. If anyone else has anything would appreciate a heads up,

Thanks



AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/11/2019 8:46:36 PM)

Still playing along at my usual extra-slow pace, and no major problems to note so far a few hours in. (Pathfinding, as noted above, is a problem for the guys coming out of Golcuk, but that's been mentioned already.)



Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/12/2019 7:12:41 PM)

quote:

Should the WP bases all be one field? I get that they are single units, but could some of them be multi runways? There are so many planes trying to take off it is a little slow.



I feel your pain but I just went into GE and checked the Sat-view, on the Crimea bases anyway (not the transport bases to the north) and they all appear to be single runway bases and the taxiways don't look substantial enough to work as runways either.


What I often do is assemble my bombers in a support mission (marshaling) then swap them out into their strike mission. Works well and groups them nicely.

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Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing Med Fury 1 Banging on the Bosporus (1/12/2019 7:21:00 PM)

Ok I moved the naval base, put a note in the scenario brief about that, the mining and not to mess with the Spetz.

Deactivated those 'Cleared' events and adjusted the doctrine of the Turk navy units to go home after shooting. A couple other tweaks as well.

Thanks for your help so far. Any other points please let me know.

V1.5 uploaded here and in OP

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