RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (Full Version)

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Zovs -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/2/2020 10:34:47 PM)

There is absolutely nothing good or great about communism, pure and simple.




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 12:29:50 AM)

For those who like to argue about what the covid-19 death rates are, this from BBC. Maybe it will help people understand. Or not:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200401-coronavirus-why-death-and-mortality-rates-differ





GaryChildress -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 1:54:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

It's sad but socialist countries seem to have one advantage over us and that is the ability to force people to do what is needed in times of emergency. Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2. It's like Sparta always seemed to get the better of Athens in war but their way of life wasn't anything most of us would be interested in. Maybe color me a pessimist but all good things seem to come at a cost. [:(]
warspite1

I assume you mean Communist, not Socialist?



Sorry, yes.




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 2:18:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.


Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.




GaryChildress -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 2:48:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.


Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.


No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...




sPzAbt653 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:07:21 AM)

I also thank z1812 for the link to the nice Canadian video concerning masks. I wanted to make sure that I understand the point - that we are told to not wear masks because we don't have enough, whereas Taiwan has enough so everybody wears them. Is that correct? Or did I miss the boat as I often do [:(]




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:07:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.


Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.


No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...


50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.




GaryChildress -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:13:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.


Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.


No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...


50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.


Interesting. I didn't realize western Industrialists were cooperating with the Soviets. I thought most of the industrialists were pretty much against communism at the time.




RangerJoe -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 8:28:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.


Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.


No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...


50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.


Interesting. I didn't realize western Industrialists were cooperating with the Soviets. I thought most of the industrialists were pretty much against communism at the time.


True but money is money.




Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 10:21:21 AM)

I have seen things done alot better and faster by goverments in other situations. I donīt see why not now, especially when they pull out marshall laws under there sleeveīs. Democracy you say? I think that has changed quite alot these past years, the goal is basically the same now for most goverments no matter what regime.

As for comununisim, well that makes me laugh, when most of the western world uses China to make more money (manufacture), but then turn there head when asked, why there companies are manufacturing in China. They are all the same dog with a different leash! Just different ways of doing things, thereīs no freedom in this world. The only free people were the Indians and some nomads, want to talk about them and were there freedom ended?

While itīs difficult to leave politics aside in such a situation as this, letīs leave it aside for the better of this thread please. But one thing I will always say, how can we be better if someone always points out a enemy?

As for doing things better, just print more money or simply devaluate it while this is going on. That is, if we really want to save lives! We invented money didnīt we? We also invented our own fears and enemies, didnīt we? You see were Iam getting at...

--




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 10:45:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

True but money is money.


Aye. Has been this way forever.




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 11:06:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress


Interesting. I didn't realize western Industrialists were cooperating with the Soviets. I thought most of the industrialists were pretty much against communism at the time.



There were no laws about who you could do business with. A U.S. corporation would be contracted to build a steel plant, train all the personnel and get everything ready to go. It was called a turnkey contract. All the customer had to do was unlock the front door and it was ready to go. Henry Ford's guys went in and built an auto plant from the ground up. U.S. companies went in and modernized and expanded existing steel plants and built two or three huge new ones. It goes on and on, Western companies building, Soviets learning and then replicating. Smart thinking, no need to reinvent the wheel.

The Soviet Communist government had gutted the economy and needed to rebuild it. They granted concessions to Western countries. These concessions allowed foreign companies to run coal and gold mines, factories, telegraph, cotton, etc. But the profits were being taken out of the country so the concessions ended around 1930. After the 'war scare' in 1927 the Soviets began their five year plans designed to prepare the Soviet Union for war. So while the Germans and the other European powers were preparing for war in the mid to late 30s the Soviets were preparing long before them.

It's an interesting story that is rarely mentioned, certainly not from the Soviet/Russian side.




Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 11:48:36 AM)

Some how-toīs and not-toīs...
So, yes there were better ways to deal with this. But hey, you can always use a "scarf"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVqrJHrO-8




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 2:09:38 PM)

Please!

RR




Curtis Lemay -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 2:42:18 PM)

Today's worldwide figures:

[image]local://upfiles/14086/7A5B357F833D4E488FB7679B0D325DE8.jpg[/image]




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:25:10 PM)

55092/1,039,166 = 5%




Zovs -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:38:08 PM)

Both of your mortality rates are incorrect. We do not have the actually numbers of confirmed cases nor deaths from China where this all originated. I know that China (more properly, the Chinese Communist Party) states on 3k deaths, but way back in early January there was a report that has long since been covered up by the Chinese Communist Party, showing 24,000 deaths at that time.

So we don't know what the actually mortality rate really is because of the disinformation, and arrests and or executions performed by the Chinese Community Party. So far all whistle blowers or data provides have 'disappeared' (imprisoned or executed by the Chinese Communist Party).




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:41:56 PM)

Yeah there are a lot of countries hiding the real toll. Why they do they I do not understand.




Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 3:59:54 PM)

The generation that is primary dying due to this virus in my country have gone through...

- A civil war.
- A post war (ww2).
- A dictatorship.
- A transition to a new regime (unenployment).
- A buble crisis.
- Care of there kids who could not get over such crisis.
- Now death by the COVID-19 just when they were starting to relax in life!

I donīt see how they deserve this, or how some of you can just think about numbers, or the old school cummunisim evil tought in school! They are just as capitalist and consumers of goods like any other country! Some just need a enemy to justify there own crimes, so quit pointing at someone!

Those numbers represent real people and you find it amusing just to prove a point? Then you bring up regime morals?

Yes, I would close this thread...




rico21 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 4:11:52 PM)

Officially, a few thousand people died in Wuhan. But, a first doubt arises on these figures with mobile phones.

And more precisely of the millions of mobile phones which in China are no longer responding. 21 million unsubscribers in the space of 5 months, China mobile, the world's largest telephone operator, would have lost 8 million subscriptions. China Telecom, the second largest telephone operator, lost more than 5 million and China Unicom almost 2 million. It is the same disturbing observation on the side of fixed lines: 840,000 lines have been terminated since December.

Radio"RTL"France.




MrRoadrunner -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 4:34:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112
Yes, I would close this thread...


I have a better idea.

Matrix, please leave the thread unlocked.

Red2112, please exhibit self restraint and don't read it and/or stop posting politics in this thread.

And, if you don't like the numbers don't read them?

RR




Zorch -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 4:38:32 PM)

Ignorance is bliss.

[image]local://upfiles/34241/0EA342E259F049E690E58BBE76771555.jpg[/image]




RangerJoe -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 5:45:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112


I understand your grief and concern. I express my condolences again. Yes, the people in your country and all over the world do not deserve this. Not even in China where this started.

But there is a reason for this discussion and that is the coverup. If it was an accidental release from a lab, that also needs to be known. People are trying to understand why and that is also part of the grieving process. If one country did not try to cover it up, they could have stopped it sooner, received help from most of the world if possible, treatments would have been discovered sooner, fewer people would have died from this disease, and fewer people will die from this disease.






Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 7:11:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112


I understand your grief and concern. I express my condolences again. Yes, the people in your country and all over the world do not deserve this. Not even in China where this started.

But there is a reason for this discussion and that is the coverup. If it was an accidental release from a lab, that also needs to be known. People are trying to understand why and that is also part of the grieving process. If one country did not try to cover it up, they could have stopped it sooner, received help from most of the world if possible, treatments would have been discovered sooner, fewer people would have died from this disease, and fewer people will die from this disease.



Fair enough, but thereīs something missing here...

- No numbers because we really donīt KNOW THEM! Some were already dying BEFORE China, we just didnīt know why! Till everybody is officialy tested we canīt really come to a REAL conclusion.

- What do the numbers have to do with a coverup, and why is only China to blame? Because they didnīt say anything the first month? We can say the same about other countries that officialy knew about the problem, but took three weeks or more to even do something about! So were is the difference here?

- Anybody could have let the virus lose in China! If thatīs the case. But no, some will negate that to be even a posibility!

I see people the same all over the world, to me they are humans with families ect, it has nothing to do with politics. I donīt care what color, race or believe they are. Some here are trying to push there political criteria in between the lines, and Iam the one whoīs talking about politics? How can you talk about war, without mentioning politics? Nobody wins in a war, but some keep on thinking about the triumph and glory! Thatīs the problem, and thatīs what should be looked at, not who is right or wrong!

When the economy falls, who you gonna blame? Another country? Really?

Others are just worried about there number games, like if we were sheep, or this was the next pandemic wargame in the works!

I donīt see anybody trying to uncover anything here, as you say. Some have tried to be constructive and informative, and they have been totaly overlooked by the rest of who plain and simple, want to keep playing the price is right game!

Why donīt you do numbers with how the economy goes after this is over? Is that to hard for your speculation? At least it would be more plesant to some, and would also make more sense!

I just see hot-heads get triggerd when things they donīt want to see get brought up.

But no worries keep on playing, and will see when this comes to a standstill who buys what. If China come up with a cure, I would love to see how many here say no to that!

Which goes to show, Ignorance is bliss...





PipFromSlitherine -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 7:32:52 PM)

Guys, let's try and keep things civil and reasonable. I've already deleted posts by a few of the more outlandish conspiracists, but if the thread as a whole descends into unhelpful territory we will lock it.

To be clear, there is zero evidence that 19 is anything other than another of its family that made the jump from bats to humans via who knows whichever species. Same as MERS, same as SARS. It has been sequenced and there is no evidence it was engineered.

Cheers

Pip




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/3/2020 11:58:41 PM)

It's not unreasonable that China would come up with the cure first. They have had more time to come up with one since that is where it first appeared. And thankfully the worlds medical community does not play politics. I do not include the W.H.O. in that. I'm talking about the people who work in the trenches at the labs and hospitals. So, first in first out should be the first with a vaccine. It would be no surprise.




Red2112 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/4/2020 1:07:56 AM)

Thereīs a race right now between the three mayor powers, which we all know who they are. But the race is not for who comes out with a cure first, itīs for who will power the world from now on. With that out of the way, the war that is going on, which is NOT the war some are used to, has to do with disinformation, fake news, propaganda and basically social engineering for these three powers to achieve or discredit goals or needs. Be it via media, web, dark web, or what ever medium they can. Thatīs the real war, the virus is just the start gunshot to start the race for the ultimate goal! Who will get there first out of the three is yet to be known, but we the people will be the losers, not those who are on top.

Itīs up to us what we belive in, and that will have to do with how all this will end, and/or what changes there will be in the future world! It dosenīt have to do with what side youīre on, so get over it. They only have one side...

And no, we donīt know if it came from a bat yet, but we do know itīs not man-made as that would leave a genetic trace.

Iīll leave it here.

Red...out




Lobster -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/4/2020 3:07:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112

Thereīs a race right now between the three mayor powers, which we all know who they are. But the race is not for who comes out with a cure first, itīs for who will power the world from now on. With that out of the way, the war that is going on, which is NOT the war some are used to, has to do with disinformation, fake news, propaganda and basically social engineering for these three powers to achieve or discredit goals or needs. Be it via media, web, dark web, or what ever medium they can. Thatīs the real war, the virus is just the start gunshot to start the race for the ultimate goal! Who will get there first out of the three is yet to be known, but we the people will be the losers, not those who are on top.

Itīs up to us what we belive in, and that will have to do with how all this will end, and/or what changes there will be in the future world! It dosenīt have to do with what side youīre on, so get over it. They only have one side...

And no, we donīt know if it came from a bat yet, but we do know itīs not man-made as that would leave a genetic trace.

Iīll leave it here.

Red...out


omg...wtf are you talking about????? [:D]




rico21 -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/4/2020 7:13:34 AM)

Coronavirus: the tuberculosis vaccine, a possible shield for caregivers
Could the good old BCG preserve the caregivers of the Covid-19? While the development of a vaccine specifically targeted against the coronavirus will still take months, several studies are verifying the possible protective effects of the tuberculosis vaccine.
"We have known for decades that BCG has non-specific beneficial effects", that is to say that it protects against diseases other than the one for which it was created, tuberculosis, explains to AFP Camille Locht, Inserm research director at the Institut Pasteur in Lille.
Children vaccinated with BCG suffer less from other respiratory illnesses, it is used to treat certain bladder cancers and it could protect against asthma and autoimmune diseases such as type 1 diabetes.
The hypothesis is that the tuberculosis vaccine could have a similar effect against the coronavirus, either by reducing the risk of being infected, or by limiting the severity of the symptoms.
Health professionals are "the first target who should benefit from this approach", judges Camille Locht, who is finalizing the protocol of a clinical trial for France, because they are among "people most at risk of developing the disease" and they must be protected first.
However, the researchers remain cautious before claiming that BCG has a shield effect against the coronavirus.
- "Military exercise" -
"This is precisely the reason for this research," insists Mihai Netea, professor of experimental medicine at the Radboud University Medical Center (Nijmegen), who announced two weeks ago the launch of a clinical trial with the University of Utrecht, involving 1,000 healthcare professionals (500 will receive the vaccine and 500, a placebo).
"If there are fewer people in the group vaccinated with BCG who must stop work because of the disease, it will be an encouraging result," added this recognized specialist in "trained immunity".
This recent concept illustrates the discovery that our acquired immune system (the one that develops antibodies) is not the only one with memory. Our innate immune system can also be prepared to better combat attacks, thanks in particular to live attenuated vaccines, such as BCG or measles.
However in the case of Covid-19, in addition to infection by the virus, there occurs in severe forms an excessive immune response, with the uncontrolled production of pro-inflammatory proteins, cytokines.
"Vaccination, in particular against BCG, could help to better orchestrate this inflammatory immune response", explains Laurent Lagrost, Inserm research director who works on these links between inflammation and the immune system.
The vaccine acts as a "military exercise in peacetime" to "fight the enemy effectively in wartime," he said Tuesday, interviewed by BFMTV.
In Australia, a team of researchers from the Murdoch Institute in Melbourne also launched a large trial including 4,000 caregivers in hospitals across the country.
"We hope to see a reduction in the frequency and severity of Covid-19 symptoms in healthcare workers who have been vaccinated with BCG," said team leader Nigel Curtis.
In France, where BCG was compulsory until 2007, "most of the study participants will already have had a first vaccination", but the protective effect of this decreases over time, observes Camille Locht.
This microbiologist wants to harmonize the criteria of the study with that planned in four Spanish hospitals, in order to better compare their results.
In Spain, researchers would like to use not BCG, but a new vaccine developed by the Galician biotech Biofabri.
This vaccine candidate, whose safety has already been demonstrated, should offer "better protection", said AFP Carlos Martin, professor of microbiology at the University of Zaragoza, because it is "developed from of a strain isolated in humans "when" BCG is prepared from a strain of the bacteria that infects cattle ", and because two genes very important for the virulence of tuberculosis have been deactivated there, this which makes it more protective.
Another advantage: made in Europe, it would be readily available, while BCG suffers from severe supply tensions and using it for adults with Covid-19 could deprive children of it in countries where tuberculosis is still present. endemic.
In Germany, the Max-Planck Institute for Infectious Biology (Berlin) is also preparing a trial with a genetically modified vaccine candidate, developed by the laboratory Serum Institute of India.
"In parallel" with these countries, there is "a reflection on a deployment in Africa" of comparable clinical trials, announced Thursday Inserm.
This should be done as part of the call for tenders launched Wednesday by the National Agency for Research on HIV and Viral Hepatitis (ANRS) "to urgently support research on COVID-19 in resource countries limited, "says Camille Locht.

Agence France Presse "AFP".




RichG -> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus (4/4/2020 10:29:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

Officially, a few thousand people died in Wuhan. But, a first doubt arises on these figures with mobile phones.

And more precisely of the millions of mobile phones which in China are no longer responding. 21 million unsubscribers in the space of 5 months, China mobile, the world's largest telephone operator, would have lost 8 million subscriptions. China Telecom, the second largest telephone operator, lost more than 5 million and China Unicom almost 2 million. It is the same disturbing observation on the side of fixed lines: 840,000 lines have been terminated since December.

Radio"RTL"France.


This has (essentially) nothing to do with the virus:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-china-mobile-loses-8-116-million-subscribers-because-of-coronavirus.11165/






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