RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (Full Version)

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rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/1/2020 10:46:05 PM)

Next day, on Feb 27 Warazup falls with a large number of Allied casualties.

[image]local://upfiles/14041/19C7497095AF4BF781EEDCB53FF5F2AD.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/2/2020 8:50:38 AM)

Great to see updates on this AAR. Been missing you!

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rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/3/2020 12:36:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Great to see updates on this AAR. Been missing you!

[sm=00000436.gif]


Nice to hear Pax, thanks. I think both of us want to continue the game and this one should go the distance and be close right to the end. Seems we're a pretty even match skill-wise.



PaxMondo -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/3/2020 2:30:10 AM)

oh yes, your opponent is a stout lad. [;)]

Keep the updates coming!



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/14/2020 7:56:05 PM)

March 14, 1943.

The last Japanese offensive? Pretty much the entire Japanese fleet has been committed in an operation to wrest back control of Rossel Island, the long-disputed reef island at the far Eastern end of the New Guinea Chain.

I was a little worried that based on SigInt or air search the invasion would be anticipated and it could turn into a Midway. In fact, I decided the keep the carriers back and provide LRCAP so they wouldn't be exposed to that historical fate.

It turns out that the invasion was anticipated, and there was an Allied response. But my guess is that the scale of the operation was not anticipated. The Japanese fleet turned out not only Carrier air cover, but the three remaining Kongo-class battleships. Three large surface cover fleets including most of the Japanese cruisers and the three Kongos covered the landing, while the Allied response was relatively feeble: minor air strikes from nearby CVEs and waves of attacks by Allied surface groups consisting of cruisers and destroyers.

The series of battles that followed were decidedly one-sided as Allied surface groups charged into long-lance torpedoes and a hail of well-aimed 36 and 20 cm cruiser and battleship shells. Not a single Japanese warship was lost (with the possible exception of CM Iwata which ate two submarine torpedoes but hasn't yet gone down). In exchange, the toll on allied cruisers and destroyers was rather heavy.



[image]local://upfiles/14041/A27539725B1D41D5885F5E5D1DEC6FF9.jpg[/image]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/14/2020 7:58:26 PM)

The next day, March 15, the newly landed Japanese forces overrun the Rossel garrison and compel its surrender.

Ground combat at Rossel Island (105,137)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 21039 troops, 180 guns, 34 vehicles, Assault Value = 803

Defending force 3340 troops, 25 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 110

Japanese adjusted assault: 372

Allied adjusted defense: 29

Japanese assault odds: 12 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Rossel Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1923 casualties reported
Squads: 31 destroyed, 173 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3588 casualties reported
Squads: 104 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 175 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 35 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 26 (26 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 7

Assaulting units:
33rd Division
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
17th Garrison Unit
143rd Infantry Regiment
89th Naval Guard Unit

Defending units:
2nd Marine Raider Battalion
3rd USMC Parachute Bn /1
2nd/102nd Infantry Battalion
110th Combat Engr Bn /2
C Det USN Port Svc
9 RAAF Base Force
76th Cst AA Rgt /1

[image]local://upfiles/14041/B553E78FE1FB446A93AE7104CFDCD9C7.jpg[/image]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/14/2020 8:04:02 PM)

From a territorial/land war perspective it's quite questionable whether the operation was even worth the fuel invested, but quite clearly from a naval perspective it was.



RangerJoe -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/15/2020 3:08:29 AM)

Very good! [&o]



Bif1961 -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (11/16/2020 3:04:04 PM)

If the allied player is going to try and take objectives on the cheap in late 42 or early 43 and the Japanese have a viable surface and carrier force left, expect to be counter-invaded. I did that in my current PBEM game as the Japanese on four occasions when the it looked like my opponent was landing with not enough ground forces to control the base. A Japanese player has to plan to counter-invade to slow the allied advance and destroy units use by him that he needs, light regiments that were divided from a division, once destroyed he has to buy them back at a lower experience level and fill them back up before he can rebuild the division back as one element. This and destroying important base forces and engineers can slow his advances and cause him to make one and at most only two landings. In other words the tables are somewhat turned from 41 and 42 where the Japanese were landing and the allies picked which ones to confront, the added bonus for the Japanese is if they planned ahead and prepped units to use in counter-landings ahead of time then they may be even better prepped in their counter-landing of an Atoll then the allied had his units prepped to land on the Atoll. In addition your units should be well rested and fully manned going against units that are depleted, disorganized and disabled to various degrees. Once you get into 44 it is far less likely, but not impossible, to expect the Japanese to counter-land but they still may contest your landings if you are going after a vital resource or shipping lane.



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/3/2020 2:40:56 AM)

We're into April 1943 now so Hellcats are starting to fill his groups.

The only thing that's really happened since mid-March is that an Allied force has marched overland to retake Darwin (never really defended it much).

In responses, we're pounding it from the air every day from airbases in Timor and Arafuran islands. Anyone know if he can realistically draw a lot of supply into Darwin, or does he have to supply it by sea?

Oh, and the Allies took a virtually undefended Mili in the Marshalls. The island did have an intrinsic CD unit, but that had mostly been destroyed from the air already and did no damage to the invaders.

[image]local://upfiles/14041/C1BF5C2581974393ACCC864F5A55B2CC.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/3/2020 11:14:02 AM)

By sea, it is too long a trail for a lot of supplies to get there.



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/5/2020 11:58:53 PM)

April 9, 1943.

He's slowly nibbling away at the almost undefended Marshalls. Not worth the fuel to have the fleet intervene so far from our useful bases.


[image]local://upfiles/14041/2401B9E1524B4AB6AA8200F5DC17CAD4.jpg[/image]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/6/2020 12:05:34 AM)

A tale of two Georges

Long term planning... do I bother going for the N1K5 or do I stick with the N1K2?

Performance probably slightly favors the N1K5, but not by much because the N1K2 has better maneuver.

Probably the additional range and lower service rating of the N1K2 about offsets the extra MGs on the N1K5. If anything, the different engine is probably a drawback but close to a wash depending on planning. So I'm not sure it's worth the R&D resources to go for the N1K5?



[image]local://upfiles/14041/0F45E026055142A08B09659128331F57.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/6/2020 4:47:15 AM)

Almost always go for the N5 if I am building george. the two cl 13mm are equivalent to 4 50 cal. That's a LOT of guns on a fighter and it makes a difference. also, moving away from the ha45 usually helps as well as it will balance the ha45/ha43 demand.

the loss in range in the biggest issue ...



mind_messing -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/6/2020 11:14:22 AM)

With the N1K series, I have made my peace with using the first in the series (N1K1-J).

The overall scope for improvement from the K1 to the K5 isn't exactly great. 17kph extra, slightly better climb and MVR at high altitudes in exchange for less range isn't exactly a step change.

Best practice in my mind is to make what you can out the the K1, and put the effort you would spend on that tree into either the Shinden or the Sam - vastly better at the bomber interceptor or general purpose fighter.



Lowpe -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/6/2020 2:33:33 PM)

I would go for the N5 too depending upon your Shinden r&d.



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/6/2020 6:58:42 PM)

Maybe a mix of the two? Seems like N1K5 packs a greater punch but is harder and more situational to use (range, service rating).



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/8/2020 2:31:12 AM)

Not sure if the Arafura Sea is going to be the next major area of engagement. An allied land army walked overland into Darwin, but was pummeled so badly from the air bases on Timor that the units were pulverized into dust and the region is effectively no man's land.

The Allies are building up a major base a Groote Eylandt in the Gulf of Carpenteria, and also have reclaimed Horn Island and the Torres Strait (although the Japanese still control Port Moresby).

Unclear if the Allies will make a major move through the Arafura sea toward the DEI or not, but we're building up the area in case.

In general, it seems the Allies are just biding their time, and likely planning some major move once they have CV superiority, Hellcats in force, and P-47s. But where? It could be anywhere around the entire perimeter. I'd almost rather be fighting harder because then I would know where the Allied force actually are. It's disconcerting having no idea.

[image]local://upfiles/14041/EF769E8A3FB24C58985D184CCFA8AC49.jpg[/image]



mind_messing -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/8/2020 7:47:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

Maybe a mix of the two? Seems like N1K5 packs a greater punch but is harder and more situational to use (range, service rating).


It's those practical considerations that make me favour the K1 model over the other two, as well as the time to bring it forward.

The K1 arrives on 9/43 with no R&D. The K2 is 11/44 and the K5 is 10/45. To me, that means that a modest R&D effort gets you the K1 in early '43 when they can make the most impact.

The K1 is early enough and good enough, and you should pivot to something that's a real step forward for the IJN (Shinden/Sam) rather than very minor incremental improvements found by moving up the N1K tree.



Lowpe -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 5:19:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader
But where? It could be anywhere around the entire perimeter.


My general rule of thumb is the Allies go were you are weakest. A decent Allied player will have more than adequate knowledge of your front line defenses.


You can try to lead the Allies into attacking where you want them. In the past I have left a weak area for them to exploit, shown lots of IJN shipping on the opposite side, and ambushed them hard as they took the bait.

You can use the final destination of ship bound troops to be say Darwin, but use waypoints to route them to Tulagi. Almost always something slips thru to the Allies about Darwin, but nothing about Tulagi.

Also, there is no Allied intelligence if your units prep for a base you already control, very useful for a quick counter invasion say at Marcus Island, etc.




rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 8:06:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

My general rule of thumb is the Allies go were you are weakest. A decent Allied player will have more than adequate knowledge of your front line defenses.

You can try to lead the Allies into attacking where you want them. In the past I have left a weak area for them to exploit, shown lots of IJN shipping on the opposite side, and ambushed them hard as they took the bait.

You can use the final destination of ship bound troops to be say Darwin, but use waypoints to route them to Tulagi. Almost always something slips thru to the Allies about Darwin, but nothing about Tulagi.

Also, there is no Allied intelligence if your units prep for a base you already control, very useful for a quick counter invasion say at Marcus Island, etc.



I'm trying to make it so that I'm not really "weak" anywhere, but understand that in itself has a tendency to spread one thin. But it is the reason, for example, that I decided not to defend the Marshalls. Not important enough given that troops are needed elsewhere. The main thing I really want to prevent is a deep Allied thrust into Hokkaido/Honshu/Ryukus or something like that so I'm trying to think about defense plans for even these rear areas.



Lowpe -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 9:25:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

The main thing I really want to prevent is a deep Allied thrust into Hokkaido/Honshu/Ryukus or something like that so I'm trying to think about defense plans for even these rear areas.



How do you envision countering a deep kitchen sink invasion?



GetAssista -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 10:29:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
quote:

ORIGINAL: rader
The main thing I really want to prevent is a deep Allied thrust into Hokkaido/Honshu/Ryukus or something like that so I'm trying to think about defense plans for even these rear areas.

How do you envision countering a deep kitchen sink invasion?


Ah, this sure brings some memories [8D]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 11:28:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

How do you envision countering a deep kitchen sink invasion?


With full commitment of fleet and air forces, and ideally enough garrison ashore to prevent him from getting a serious foothold (I'm sure he'd get ashore somewhere). Then sustained counter-attack and raids on his supply lines.



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 11:30:27 PM)

A bad day in the air over Katherine (near Darwin) for the Japanese when the sweeping fighters failed to fly combined with a bad day to be a Beaufighter pilot over China when a group of sweepers met a CAP trap near Chungking.

[image]local://upfiles/14041/073FF1BB4D514A7BA58A675656C412F9.jpg[/image]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/9/2020 11:31:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

How do you envision countering a deep kitchen sink invasion?


With full commitment of fleet and air forces, and ideally enough garrison ashore to prevent him from getting a serious foothold (I'm sure he'd get ashore somewhere). Then sustained counter-attack and raids on his supply lines.


Basically operation Sho-Go, but have it work :)



mind_messing -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/10/2020 1:12:40 AM)

I think you missed a good chance to attrition Allied naval assets in the Marshalls. The geography favours the IJ defence, and the generally small sizes of airbases means that light IJN surface assets can skirmish in and out in darkness and be back under friendly CAP before daylight.

From the look of the Roussel Island experience, it would likely have generated some more engagements favourable to the IJN.


Some thoughts from me on your defensive planning:

- I'd scratch Ryukyu off the list as a realistic target considering the current map situation, and replace it with the Bonin's.

- Honshu is too large for a static defence, and IJ troops to few at this point in the war to cover every landing site. A QRF of the existing restricted divisions, plus the emergency reinforcements, should be enough insurance to see you into 1944 (when obviously the balance changes).

- Strong naval and air search from Wake, Marcus and Hokkaido is your best defence for these areas. Five days of warning is absolutely massive in terms of redeploying assets in response to an invasion.

- Don't get tunnel vision on one side of the map. A kitchen sink attack on Sumatra will be just as fatal to your economic prospects as a landing on Honshu.

As a wider comment, the general tone of your posts on this subject is suggesting to me that you have insufficient intel on your opponents fleet hubs. Thanks to the Allied advance, you'll likely need to fall back on the floatplane subs for the heavy lifting here, but you should be able to recon the ports on the NE Australian coast.

I'd also consider looking at grabbing the dot bases on the NW Australian coast - Mavis/Emily operating from there will give you a peek into Perth and tell you if Northern OZ is on the agenda.

I also think that as the Allies consolidate the Marshall islands, that you're going to need to start considering an phased exit from SWPAC in the next six months or else be outflanked and cut off. I'd look at New Britain and New Ireland as the frontline, backstopped by Hansa Bay and Manus Island, with what you can spare going to the Marianas. You'll also likely lose Truk as a viable fleet base, so I'd have a think about where will replace it.



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/10/2020 7:09:07 PM)

Replies inline >>

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I think you missed a good chance to attrition Allied naval assets in the Marshalls. The geography favours the IJ defence, and the generally small sizes of airbases means that light IJN surface assets can skirmish in and out in darkness and be back under friendly CAP before daylight.

>> Yeah, maybe but if I'm not willing to commit the KB, I could just end up losing those surface assets to his carriers, or to his more powerful surface assets.

Some thoughts from me on your defensive planning:

- I'd scratch Ryukyu off the list as a realistic target considering the current map situation, and replace it with the Bonin's.

>> Oh yes for sure. The Bonins have been my #1 to defend spot on the map from day 1. They are the gateway to everything else beyond.

- Honshu is too large for a static defence, and IJ troops to few at this point in the war to cover every landing site. A QRF of the existing restricted divisions, plus the emergency reinforcements, should be enough insurance to see you into 1944 (when obviously the balance changes).

>> Yeah, I do have enough to keep him honest, but Honshu in 1943 would be an aggressive strike for sure!

- Strong naval and air search from Wake, Marcus and Hokkaido is your best defence for these areas. Five days of warning is absolutely massive in terms of redeploying assets in response to an invasion.

>> Agreed.

- Don't get tunnel vision on one side of the map. A kitchen sink attack on Sumatra will be just as fatal to your economic prospects as a landing on Honshu.

>> In 1943 or early 1944 yes. But as 1944 starts to turn to 1945, I think strategic bombing of the homeland becomes more important than oil.

As a wider comment, the general tone of your posts on this subject is suggesting to me that you have insufficient intel on your opponents fleet hubs. Thanks to the Allied advance, you'll likely need to fall back on the floatplane subs for the heavy lifting here, but you should be able to recon the ports on the NE Australian coast.

I also think that as the Allies consolidate the Marshall islands, that you're going to need to start considering an phased exit from SWPAC in the next six months or else be outflanked and cut off. I'd look at New Britain and New Ireland as the frontline, backstopped by Hansa Bay and Manus Island, with what you can spare going to the Marianas. You'll also likely lose Truk as a viable fleet base, so I'd have a think about where will replace it.

>> All good points, will keep these in mind (messing) - thanks!





rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/10/2020 7:15:10 PM)

April 16, 1943.

A bad day in the air for Allied fighters. I decided to send a big contingent of Georges in to Port Moresby where he'd been sweeping and bombing for a while. No bombers came in today, but the Georges did meet the Corsair sweeps and did great. They also did really well sweeping the nearest airfield in Northern Australia, where they found some Kittyhawks on CAP. After the sweeping Georges came a contingent of Helens to bomb the airfield. The damage was mostly superficial, but we did hit a small number of Allied bombers on the ground.

Simultaneously some Georges swept Katherine (near Darwin) and did well against some Spitfire Vcs. All in all a wonderful day for Georges, with an almost 5:1 kill ratio! (vs non-trash Allied airframes)


[image]local://upfiles/14041/E867F94B074D4DF8A8511A3F03FCDD83.jpg[/image]



rader -> RE: Pacific War 3.0 (No Encircled please!) (12/10/2020 7:16:28 PM)

Interestingly, today was the first day that any of these Allied aircraft types had been shot down!



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