RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (Full Version)

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witpqs -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:09:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

The 3 Asama marus are great for liners, should be used to "transport" troops from the HI to big important ports like Singapore, Bangkok or Soerabaja

For me the question is should I escort them? [X(]
they have a fast cruise speed that get reduced significantly if I attach DDs
this is even more pronounced on the QEs... they cruise comfortably at speeds that for other ships would be flank

Even though the speed of The Queen is really great, in an early game I found her still quite vulnerable to IJN subs. Maybe just a minor game shortcoming.

So, yes, I would escort them unless they are transiting places you are quite certain are free of enemy subs.


Her starting Captain is horrible and starting crew experience beyond horrible.


Doubt I even looked...



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

This is a big turn, if not really too exciting, I guess it is a kind of sad turn too, I suspect if all goes well it will probably mean a very early Allied auto-victory. Probably would even if it just goes satisfactorily.

Scott simply isn't using any of his units well.[:(]


by auto-victory, do you mean your opponent conceding defeat? I don't see you can get an early auto-victory otherwise


Although the former may happen, I specifically meant the latter.

Oh, ye of little faith.[:)]


Maybe this is a ploy, to see how to defend as an Allied player . . .



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:17:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

The 3 Asama marus are great for liners, should be used to "transport" troops from the HI to big important ports like Singapore, Bangkok or Soerabaja

For me the question is should I escort them? [X(]
they have a fast cruise speed that get reduced significantly if I attach DDs
this is even more pronounced on the QEs... they cruise comfortably at speeds that for other ships would be flank

Even though the speed of The Queen is really great, in an early game I found her still quite vulnerable to IJN subs. Maybe just a minor game shortcoming.

So, yes, I would escort them unless they are transiting places you are quite certain are free of enemy subs.


Her starting Captain is horrible and starting crew experience beyond horrible.


Doubt I even looked...


I think she starts at 7 experience, and peaks at 15. The Captain is under 20 naval.



witpqs -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:23:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

The 3 Asama marus are great for liners, should be used to "transport" troops from the HI to big important ports like Singapore, Bangkok or Soerabaja

For me the question is should I escort them? [X(]
they have a fast cruise speed that get reduced significantly if I attach DDs
this is even more pronounced on the QEs... they cruise comfortably at speeds that for other ships would be flank

Even though the speed of The Queen is really great, in an early game I found her still quite vulnerable to IJN subs. Maybe just a minor game shortcoming.

So, yes, I would escort them unless they are transiting places you are quite certain are free of enemy subs.


Her starting Captain is horrible and starting crew experience beyond horrible.


Doubt I even looked...


I think she starts at 7 experience, and peaks at 15. The Captain is under 20 naval.


[X(]



offenseman -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:25:12 PM)

Captain Edward Smith I presume... "If I go fast enough, we'll be safe, can I get some tea please...?"



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 2:29:54 PM)

the real captain of a QE liner would have more years of sea experience than the entire officers' crew of a WW2 cruiser

liners were always at sea, moving from port to port in a regular schedule, their crews were very competent and experienced




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/23/2020 11:15:06 PM)

Dec 25th and 26th, 1941

Wake Island....not detected....dare I keep unloading for another two days. I think not, no reason to be greedy. All the CD guns are down, minefields laid, Stuarts in prepared positions.

Nothing detected, and no DL on the sub pickets.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/BC2786C5DEA34A7DA1487D12F98BDEA2.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 12:11:55 AM)

Christmas at Singapore



[image]local://upfiles/44178/7948CDF747DA4822B80D4BD4F27B2000.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 12:14:49 AM)

Japan is a tough task master when it comes to driving pilots and planes hard.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/C85AAA2C7DD0490088B7397A4C6D8505.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 12:23:02 AM)

No clue what IJ's plan is for China...

Supply now at 202K, the first Indian Mtn Gun is marching to Kweiyang, 254th Armor is at Lashio preparing for a road march to Paoshan. Ledo building quickly. Allies have accomplished all their early goals here.

IJA attacks Foochaw, and Chinese corp beats them off with a 1-2. Need to decide if I should retreat here, since it is open, but it could divert bombers from Luzon. Probably will leave. Only 1 Corp is present, the better corp already left.

Already have forts 2 in a lot of off base festungs. At this pace Japan will be facing forts 4-5.

Loyang and the base to its south is held by a measly fraction of a corp, can't believe Japan doesn't take them.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/F03A74212CE2496DA1C4CA67AC78AB55.jpg[/image]



offenseman -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 12:26:00 AM)

The first thing that strikes me is the Netties. Goodness, you may not have many of those to worry about unless the set is rich in them and has increased production at start.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 12:45:09 PM)

Full speed ahead...



[image]local://upfiles/44178/99C588F395E749A7895F48A91DA79F46.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 1:51:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
No clue what IJ's plan is for China...

Why won't you run around on the plains blocking roads and such? Minor Chinese units running around is always a major annoyance for Japan. I see some roadblocks from the troops that were out there initially yes, but no activity otherwise.

In general, I have a growing impression that this game might not last very long. Japan will get a bloody nose here and there because of not being hasty enough, and then amphibious bonus will run out and it will become apparent that the perimeter is not there yet



Evoken -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 3:57:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Full speed ahead...



[image]local://upfiles/44178/99C588F395E749A7895F48A91DA79F46.jpg[/image]

Allied amphibious operation in December [X(] although most likely empty base what kind of ships are you using ? I am guessing AP and AK's and not the civilian versions



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 4:06:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
No clue what IJ's plan is for China...

Why won't you run around on the plains blocking roads and such? Minor Chinese units running around is always a major annoyance for Japan. I see some roadblocks from the troops that were out there initially yes, but no activity otherwise.

In general, I have a growing impression that this game might not last very long. Japan will get a bloody nose here and there because of not being hasty enough, and then amphibious bonus will run out and it will become apparent that the perimeter is not there yet


Not worth the extra clicks tbh. I thought about do it. but I have also blocked all the key rail lines for quick and easy Japanese troop movements.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 4:10:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

Allied amphibious operation in December [X(] although most likely empty base what kind of ships are you using ? I am guessing AP and AK's and not the civilian versions



Great question. I have stolen all the AP and AK for Midway/Wake and Hokkaido and Sakhalin.

To get this done this quickly I am using 3 Grace Line 16point xaps and four destroyers, 2 in a SAG, the other two escorts.

I kind of feel bad about it.

We are only unloading 250 or so points I recall, so it I am hoping something with an assault value gets ashore, that is if there is nothing there.

Hopefully a few AV and enough AS to run Catalinas from.

I have one APD, but just couldn't bring myself to send 1 in like that. [:)]



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 6:30:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have one APD, but just couldn't bring myself to send 1 in like that. [:)]


Which is why I convert all 4-pipers to APDs. so useful little ships, and also kind of disposable, I think I have lost 20 in one year

For APs.. be careful, remember there are few replacements until much later in 43



GetAssista -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 7:00:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Why won't you run around on the plains blocking roads and such? Minor Chinese units running around is always a major annoyance for Japan. I see some roadblocks from the troops that were out there initially yes, but no activity otherwise.

In general, I have a growing impression that this game might not last very long. Japan will get a bloody nose here and there because of not being hasty enough, and then amphibious bonus will run out and it will become apparent that the perimeter is not there yet

Not worth the extra clicks tbh. I thought about do it. but I have also blocked all the key rail lines for quick and easy Japanese troop movements.

Well, the process is always dynamic and laggy here. Should Japan decide to chase away your initial blocks it would take time to deliver new ones if you start from scratch each time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
For APs.. be careful, remember there are few replacements until much later in 43

General APs are ok. But it is worth noting that a specific type of AP/AK - future APA - is of great importance for the Allies. The ships that are upgraded to APA should not go to into the harms way before they are upgraded and a part of large amphibious campaign well into 43. there are relatively few of them.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 7:39:25 PM)

Most USN APs classes (Harris, Heywood, C3A, C3D, McCawley) would convert to APAs in early 43
this in Dababes-C there might be some scenario differences

AKs are more plentiful, and I am less worried about losing them.

In my game, which reached Jan43, I have only 24 APs available and 5 lost
24 APs are barely capable of moving a couple divisions + a few supporting units... this means that one battle disaster can end Allied capability for offense until mid 43

That said, I have been using successfully, those very small xAPs that can carry 300 to 500 troops, they are slow disembarking, but because of their low carry capacity, they can usually finish in one day



GetAssista -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 7:57:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Most USN APs classes (Harris, Heywood, C3A, C3D, McCawley) would convert to APAs in early 43
this in Dababes-C there might be some scenario differences

Yeah, sorry, I used xAP and AP interchangeably here. Meaning the former. The point I was making is that there is ample troop carrying capacity overall, especially in the British sphere. But offensive troop carrying is limited for the Allies until late war.



BBfanboy -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 9:21:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Most USN APs classes (Harris, Heywood, C3A, C3D, McCawley) would convert to APAs in early 43
this in Dababes-C there might be some scenario differences

AKs are more plentiful, and I am less worried about losing them.

In my game, which reached Jan43, I have only 24 APs available and 5 lost
24 APs are barely capable of moving a couple divisions + a few supporting units... this means that one battle disaster can end Allied capability for offense until mid 43

That said, I have been using successfully, those very small xAPs that can carry 300 to 500 troops, they are slow disembarking, but because of their low carry capacity, they can usually finish in one day

There are two versions of the AK - both have the same capacity but one is max 12 knots and the other is max 16. The former does not convert to AKA but the latter does. There are not a lot of the convertible ones and I always find that I need more AK types to move all the equipment that comes with the fighting units.
LSTs get used up moving tanks and guns. AKs haul radars, trucks, engineer vehicles, etc.

Converting the AKs to AKA is just as important as the APs IMO. The 16 kt. speed fits nicely with most AP movement while slower xAPs and xAKs can travel with the slow LSTs. One of my OCD things is, if possible, not slowing up the fast ships by embedding slow ships in the same TF.



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/24/2020 10:19:19 PM)

I think in my game with Wargamr I probably sank every single AP and AK in the game to that date....I was sinking them left and right at times.

I feel that the Allies are swimming in lift potential...just not the kind that can throw down 4 divisions in one go prior to 44. I hope to avoid that in this game, I am looking to swarm the lightly held bases, and bypass the strongly held ones using bombardments (aerial and naval) to keep them suppressed.

The biggest invasions would be against atolls, so 1 division lift is all that is needed. Even were I to invade Sumatra, Malaya, Java, I bet I can find avenues to grab a smallish base and proceed from there in waves. I have certainly done that as Japan...don't see why Allies would be different (except the restricted fast transport).

The monkeywrench in all this is of course the KB. But it can't be everywhere.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 3:37:41 AM)

If your opponent gets cold feet, I hope Obvert picks it up. That could be very interesting.

Cheers,
CB



GetAssista -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 12:45:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart
If your opponent gets cold feet, I hope Obvert picks it up. That could be very interesting.

Especially if Obvert delivers some premature sushi to the Soviets [:D]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 1:03:22 PM)

I don't think he is going to quit anytime soon, his attitude seems good, but he is expecting to get hurt each turn and that has certainly thrown him off his game greatly I think.

Plus this turn with the invasion of Marcus from out of left field.

Meanwhile all the real damage is coming in at Singapore and Palembang very quietly.[:)]




Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 8:48:49 PM)

Dec 29th, 1941

The Americans storm ashore at Marcus Island. Only 15AV landed, but more than enough aviation support to service some Cats, plus a few naval squads. I might be able to run more in depending upon how fast Japan reacts.

But for now we are retreating away with the Grace Line transports...their mission accomplished.





[image]local://upfiles/44178/46605E4F90FB40FEB44D41DC4B611E9D.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 9:10:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Dec 29th, 1941

The Americans storm ashore at Marcus Island. Only 15AV landed, but more than enough aviation support to service some Cats, plus a few naval squads. I might be able to run more in depending upon how fast Japan reacts.

But for now we are retreating away with the Grace Line transports...their mission accomplished.





[image]local://upfiles/44178/46605E4F90FB40FEB44D41DC4B611E9D.jpg[/image]


[&o][&o][&o]

The emperors probable reaction! [X(][X(][X(]



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 9:17:09 PM)

I have never seen Japan so meek as this...I have no clue where the KB is or the fleet carriers that did the Manila strike. Heck, I have hardly seen any cruisers...getting a bit ridiculous.[:(]

I know he hunted Lady Lex and Big E early on, and was very frustrated in not finding them.

Unloading about 1000 av that will be in Palembang shortly. 140K supply at Singers, 90K at Palembang.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/D7A8C1D731EA4CA4BACC5E00F4ACF647.jpg[/image]



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 9:22:36 PM)

90K in Palembang is not enough; you should aim for ~250K to ~300K
with those levels I didn't run out until November 42

EDIT: my game is Dababes, in which refineries don't generate supply... so you might need less, but still 200K or 300K is little #s for the Allies, even in early war

Also: don't forget to build Praboemoelih's airfield, as it is inland and not possible to naval bombard



Lowpe -> RE: Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A) (8/25/2020 9:28:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

90K in Palembang is not enough; you should aim for ~250K to ~300K
with those levels I didn't run out until November 42

EDIT: my game is Dababes, in which refineries don't generate supply... so you might need less, but still 200K or 300K is little #s for the Allies, even in early war

Also: don't forget to build Praboemoelih's airfield, as it is inland and not possible to naval bombard



I have another 90K unloading at the ports of Sumatra right now, with more on the way.

Hard to think if Palembang turns into such a difficult nut that Japan doesn't bypass for a while and go to Java hoping to starve them out.



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