RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (Full Version)

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BBfanboy -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 8:06:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

18th Div reinforcements isn't even on the map yet...



[image]local://upfiles/44178/E7A30730A526411B986C5410C720CE89.jpg[/image]

I vaguely recall some coastal defence units showing up on map fairly early in the India OOB. Not sure if this mod kept them. There are also some fresh Indian Divisions raised that show up at Madras, but that might be a couple of months away. Check your reinforcements list.



mind_messing -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 8:15:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Hells bells, in this mod he can cut India off from the Gulf and Aden really easily

Indian Bdes have small Engineer components and you get a few at the start (in this mod I have no idea, but you do in stock)

Look on the bright side, you only need 100 days and they will be fully prepped for defence, but still have appalling exp and equipment............


Yeah, agreed. Not quite sure I like that decision from a balance perspective...




RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 8:54:14 PM)

Too bad that you do not have float Stringbags, there was one that was tested. [X(]



Encircled -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 9:30:56 PM)

Thing is, you are going to need the 18th in India, and even that isn't fully equipped or trained

I think you get a very good Aus Div in Aden in early Jan

I just don't know where you get the troops, engineers, aircraft, tanks and ships to defend that part of the map, without weakening India even more than it is already.

Unless you really gamble and start shipping Aus units from Oz from Perth, but that is obviously very, very risky






PaxMondo -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 9:50:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


American troops have been moving from Dec 8th for the East Coast, and the first unit, a base force, arrived today.

It is 44 days to Cape Town, then what, another 2-3 weeks to India. There is not enough time.



Maybe, not, but maybe yes.

That you are going to lose some territory in India is foregone, like the DS later you cannot really stop the IJ from any port hex assault. BUT, inland is different. It isn't just the coastal cities that will kill you, its all those resource rich bases north of Calcutta. Deny him those AND don't lose too many units and you avoid AV.

As the US troops arrive, put them into blocking points. Your real challenge is going to be CAP, getting enough fighters, but again, the idea is to drain the IJ. The more exchange, the more difficult it is for him to attain AV.

We know the IJ. The achilles heel is always thus, he can't afford to trade, he has to buy it cheap. Make him pay and that avoids AV; it also sets up the ultimate defeat that much sooner.

Of course easier said than done. The strategy is fairly obvious, the tactics to achieve? That's your domain. [;)]

[&o][&o][&o]



RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:23:23 PM)

But just like a kidney stone, all of these problems will pass even if it is painful.



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:32:04 PM)

So, if I put these 8 Sims class destroyers on flank speed, they will show up in good order in Cape Town pretty quickly?

I remember Giants or Bullwinkle advocating all off map travel should be flank speed...

How about Queen Elizabeth to LA, pick up elements of the 40th or 41st division, whichever is there, and from LA to Panama Canal to Capetown? Is that the fastest transit from the right edge to the left edge?



[image]local://upfiles/44178/2B537F1FAFB449BCA65C4A3623E353B2.jpg[/image]



mind_messing -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:38:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, if I put these 8 Sims class destroyers on flank speed, they will show up in good order in Cape Town pretty quickly?

I remember Giants or Bullwinkle advocating all off map travel should be flank speed...

How about Queen Elizabeth to LA, pick up elements of the 40th or 41st division, whichever is there, and from LA to Panama Canal to Capetown? Is that the fastest transit from the right edge to the left edge?



[image]local://upfiles/44178/2B537F1FAFB449BCA65C4A3623E353B2.jpg[/image]


Marginal savings, I would think, versus just strat moving the 40th/41st to East Coast then moving to CT.

The main advantage of this would be no need to pay PP's for the divisions until they had arrived at CT. Plenty of other things to spend PP on in the meantime.



Evoken -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:43:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, if I put these 8 Sims class destroyers on flank speed, they will show up in good order in Cape Town pretty quickly?

I remember Giants or Bullwinkle advocating all off map travel should be flank speed...

How about Queen Elizabeth to LA, pick up elements of the 40th or 41st division, whichever is there, and from LA to Panama Canal to Capetown? Is that the fastest transit from the right edge to the left edge?



[image]local://upfiles/44178/2B537F1FAFB449BCA65C4A3623E353B2.jpg[/image]

Be carefull of not using full speed while sending ships from on map to off map. Off map to off map full speed is fine ; for example East Coast to Capetown , Panama to Capetown etc .

I forgot US carriers on full speed once and got them stranded in off map limbo for quite a while [X(]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:44:43 PM)

Pax,

I got the air force moving on Dec 8th, and quite a slug of it will arrive in 30 days at Cape Town.

I am going to recon Bangkok tomorrow, and see what is there. I can potentially hit it hard....



[image]local://upfiles/44178/33E42D8460D24819926DE1939C0AF045.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 10:50:44 PM)

So those CD unit are four 6" Guns...useful, but not something to write home about.

Here is the list of British/Indian reinforcements.

If I lose the base they spawn in, then it is additional delay and spawning in Aden I think or is it Cape Town?



[image]local://upfiles/44178/33CE2DDD4CAE4B6D872F4BF22DD463C7.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 11:06:22 PM)

M-M is right about shipping from LA to Panama to Cape Town...they need to be free units.[:(]

So I need to calculate out what my PP future usage will be needed as American troops arrive in Cape Town and be prepared.

Here is a list of troops at sea...headed to Suva is the American 34th Rgt & friends off Hawaii...the British off map reinforcements don't show up on this list.

In two days at most, I need to start allocating Catalina squadrons to tracking the India/Oz invasion from the Java area..which means they can't do naval strike or transport troops.

Big priority though will be air lifting out the HQc III Indian Corp from Malaya to India....it can really add to the defense, but where? Calcutta? Bombay? Madras? Viz?



[image]local://upfiles/44178/01D8DE03B74E4EF3A046A3CB142B530B.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 11:18:30 PM)

Ok, I am totally stripping Ceylon now...I think an invasion here is likely in less than two weeks.[X(]

I think I have taken Ceylon with as little as three divisions in mid 42...just can't hold it, can't risk letting Japan get all the fuel and supplies...so if I could burn the docks and salt the earth I would do it.[sm=00000003.gif]





[image]local://upfiles/44178/52486FC91D6B4538AA46D771E368C67F.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/19/2020 11:20:01 PM)

The units will spawn at Aden. You will probably have to move fuel there for all of the ships. I would not move supplies out of Aden, have your off map and North American bases build everything up.



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:04:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The units will spawn at Aden. You will probably have to move fuel there for all of the ships. I would not move supplies out of Aden, have your off map and North American bases build everything up.


Thanks, interesting point about supply at Aden. I have a supply convoy enroute to Oz...think I will divert them to India instead.





Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:08:08 AM)

Sometimes, you need to give up on defense and understand quickly what is next on the plate...and I think using Benkoelen and Padang as naval search bastions to spot a super early invasion from the Batavia area is critically important. Sabang too perhaps.

If I spot the KB and Oilers swinging up this way for example, better to know now, than 7-10 hexes off Ceylon. Don't you think?

I am giving serious thought to buying some armor from Oz and sending it up to India...but if the KB swings west of Sumatra! Well, that could be bad.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/3678ED6D81814AC5B91C895201905EE0.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:09:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


Be carefull of not using full speed while sending ships from on map to off map. Off map to off map full speed is fine ; for example East Coast to Capetown , Panama to Capetown etc .

I forgot US carriers on full speed once and got them stranded in off map limbo for quite a while [X(]


Noted, thanks.



RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:31:31 AM)

Don't forget, you also have Cocos and Christmas Islands in the IO to spot ships coming that way. [;)] Just a few support squads from an HQa would suffice for them. Don't forget night Naval Search.

You will also get units at Mombassa later, check when they come in and have transports waiting for them.



RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:33:43 AM)

Also, a Dutch sub laid minefield at Sunda strait but NOT at Merak could also be nice. [:D]



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:44:40 AM)

Longer term, the next three weeks, thinking.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/76873C5FEE9B4363B907053454ADED34.jpg[/image]

All these arrows are Japanese offensive thrusts possibilities. I need to counter some way, but perhaps not even here....



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:01:59 AM)

I can actually get a fair bit of troops here...not enough to stop a multiple division landing, but if he is trying to grab something on the cheap, well then yes.

To defend Socotra I probably need 1 division+, 1 armor+, 2 AA, 2 Engineers, CD guns, ART+, mines, supply and forts 4+. Even then he would see it, and take it, but it would take a month or maybe longer. I certainly can't defend all four bases that strongly.

The problem is, with the amphib bonus he can pick and chose where to land, he will bring oilers and AKEs, he will have naval superiority.

The size 2 runway at Socotra can do nothing against the KB, will get bombarded by his cruisers, who will then reload at a dot base from AKEs.

So, without Naval Superiority, at least for a little bit, it seems pointless to attempt a defense here.

But to give him Socotra seems it might be giving him India and the game. And IF I hold Socotra, he merely takes Masirah.

It seems the best defense is to have outstanding naval search and hit his long supply line, looking to hit cargo ships etc carrying whatever.

Meanwhile the USN in the Pacific is looking to harvest VPs at Hokkaido/Honshu/wherever since the obvious weak point is that the IJN will be here and not in the Pacific...but how can I bleed him there to gain enough points? I have some ideas, but no confidence in them as of yet.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/49BE4FB7B53D498595D881801A08FE16.jpg[/image]

The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he is coming here with everything he can muster as fast as he can.



RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:06:56 AM)

Your ships on the purple arrow, especially if severely damaged, could retreat off map and incur no further damage until they make it to port where they should disband. Think of disbanding damaged ships into Cape Town for the shipyard. Thence even to the East Coast . . .



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:10:10 AM)

I think the only solution is to use the American Carriers to aid in the Thundering herd escape...and then with four CVs, to start a Kurile Invasion and strategic bombing of Honshu. This early, there really is no defense to 4E night bombing. Even the Carriers can fly strategic night bombing missions.

Easier said than done.






RangerJoe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:13:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I can actually get a fair bit of troops here...not enough to stop a multiple division landing, but if he is trying to grab something on the cheap, well then yes.

To defend Socotra I probably need 1 division+, 1 armor+, 2 AA, 2 Engineers, CD guns, ART+, mines, supply and forts 4+. Even then he would see it, and take it, but it would take a month or maybe longer. I certainly can't defend all four bases that strongly.

The problem is, with the amphib bonus he can pick and chose where to land, he will bring oilers and AKEs, he will have naval superiority.

The size 2 runway at Socotra can do nothing against the KB, will get bombarded by his cruisers, who will then reload at a dot base from AKEs.

So, without Naval Superiority, at least for a little bit, it seems pointless to attempt a defense here.

But to give him Socotra seems it might be giving him India and the game. And IF I hold Socotra, he merely takes Masirah.

It seems the best defense is to have outstanding naval search and hit his long supply line, looking to hit cargo ships etc carrying whatever.

Meanwhile the USN in the Pacific is looking to harvest VPs at Hokkaido/Honshu/wherever since the obvious weak point is that the IJN will be here and not in the Pacific...but how can I bleed him there to gain enough points? I have some ideas, but no confidence in them as of yet.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/49BE4FB7B53D498595D881801A08FE16.jpg[/image]

The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he is coming here with everything he can muster as fast as he can.


If so, then I would build up bases in Alaska and the Aleutians, and haul in lots fuel and lots of supplies. At least it should be quicker than sending it to SoPac or beyond. Then Oldendorf can have a bunch of battleships to play with. Bombard bases on the Home Islands with production and manpower both if possible. That could gain VPs and if you have some of the Kuriles for Naval Search and tankers and AKEs/AEs/ADs in port, you can keep threatening his production.



Alfred -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:30:09 AM)




I


Why attempt to guess the exact Japanese landing spot. The chance of guessing wrong is high and even if guessed right not having the internal lines you are always going to be chasing the ball. I wouldn't be wasting time sending major American reinforcements to India. Nor even raiding the north Pacific.

Let Japan waste precious fuel with sealing off India and then committing valuable assets to capturing India. Or moving to Perth. It is all very poor strategy whilst Luzon remains firmly in Allied hands, ditto Singapore, ditto most of DEI.

Whilst this poor strategy is being pursued, make Japan really suffer. Capture the Marianas and reinforce Luzon. See how far Japan profits if it can't ship those raw materials back home. In far less time than it will take to ship American units to India, they could be landing on Luzon, Guam, Saipan etc.


Alfred



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 1:31:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Then Oldendorf can have a bunch of battleships to play with.


This early, using the slow BBs is just giving Japan victory points, they are so vulnerable to night attacks, especially by Iboats.

It is going to take prep for a bunch of bases, grabbing the easiest and countering his subs, betties and nells and zeroes. It won't be easy...early CAP traps will be key, as will running away at the right point.

But yes, today we are marshalling 90% of the USN to operations against the Kuriles all the way to Kunashiri and Shikotan.

I have add that I have never ever predicted what my opponent was going to do with any degree of accuracy in the short term. Longer term I have done ok...still, I think if he goes Oz, I can recover, If he goes Burma, I can recover, if he goes Socotra I need to do Kuriles plus.

I still plan on pushing everywhere the KB isn't...

4 Carriers in 2 weeks, 5 carriers in 74 days...plus everything I can pump into India now and prepare to hit his supply lines.




witpqs -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 2:01:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred




I


Why attempt to guess the exact Japanese landing spot. The chance of guessing wrong is high and even if guessed right not having the internal lines you are always going to be chasing the ball. I wouldn't be wasting time sending major American reinforcements to India. Nor even raiding the north Pacific.

Let Japan waste precious fuel with sealing off India and then committing valuable assets to capturing India. Or moving to Perth. It is all very poor strategy whilst Luzon remains firmly in Allied hands, ditto Singapore, ditto most of DEI.

Whilst this poor strategy is being pursued, make Japan really suffer. Capture the Marianas and reinforce Luzon. See how far Japan profits if it can't ship those raw materials back home. In far less time than it will take to ship American units to India, they could be landing on Luzon, Guam, Saipan etc.


Alfred




PaxMondo -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 3:34:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ok, I am totally stripping Ceylon now...I think an invasion here is likely in less than two weeks.[X(]

I think I have taken Ceylon with as little as three divisions in mid 42...just can't hold it, can't risk letting Japan get all the fuel and supplies...so if I could burn the docks and salt the earth I would do it.[sm=00000003.gif]


+1

If you can't control the sea, then Ceylon is untenable. I too would totally bail ...



PaxMondo -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 3:43:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I can actually get a fair bit of troops here...not enough to stop a multiple division landing, but if he is trying to grab something on the cheap, well then yes.

To defend Socotra I probably need 1 division+, 1 armor+, 2 AA, 2 Engineers, CD guns, ART+, mines, supply and forts 4+. Even then he would see it, and take it, but it would take a month or maybe longer. I certainly can't defend all four bases that strongly.

The problem is, with the amphib bonus he can pick and chose where to land, he will bring oilers and AKEs, he will have naval superiority.

The size 2 runway at Socotra can do nothing against the KB, will get bombarded by his cruisers, who will then reload at a dot base from AKEs.

So, without Naval Superiority, at least for a little bit, it seems pointless to attempt a defense here.

But to give him Socotra seems it might be giving him India and the game. And IF I hold Socotra, he merely takes Masirah.


The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he is coming here with everything he can muster as fast as he can.

Truthfully, he take either or both at his will. BUT, these are WAY out of his SLOC. It hampers reinforcements to India, but hardly cuts the cord entirely. Single ships can always slip through. Karachi/Bombay are tough nuts to crack due to distance, taking them early needs the KB which in turns creates a huge vulnerability at Hokkaido. If he is going to India this early, he can't have much force at all in Hokkaido.



Lowpe -> RE: Spanking Lowpe (NJP72 vs Lowpe (A)) (9/20/2020 12:11:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred




I


Why attempt to guess the exact Japanese landing spot. The chance of guessing wrong is high and even if guessed right not having the internal lines you are always going to be chasing the ball. I wouldn't be wasting time sending major American reinforcements to India. Nor even raiding the north Pacific.

Let Japan waste precious fuel with sealing off India and then committing valuable assets to capturing India. Or moving to Perth. It is all very poor strategy whilst Luzon remains firmly in Allied hands, ditto Singapore, ditto most of DEI.

Whilst this poor strategy is being pursued, make Japan really suffer. Capture the Marianas and reinforce Luzon. See how far Japan profits if it can't ship those raw materials back home. In far less time than it will take to ship American units to India, they could be landing on Luzon, Guam, Saipan etc.


Alfred




Oh, man. Cats out of the bag![sm=00000280.gif] Invasion Marianas in about three to five days.



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