RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/12/2021 2:52:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Industry totally destroyed in India - I had that happen to me when I played Japan and was capturing bases without any defenders. MichaelM did not get that issue fixed in the last few patches. Work around was the Allies were required (House Rule) to leave one small LCU in each base that had multiple industries there. Just a small battalion was enough for this not to happen.

Thanks for reminding me about this ... I had forgotten that this was not taken care of ...



RangerJoe -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/12/2021 3:13:13 AM)

Does this happen if the base automatically switches to the other side?



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/12/2021 6:13:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Does this happen if the base automatically switches to the other side?


No. That's why I always try to make it switch.


In any case, I will take the industrial losses and amen. I still think they won't be a problem in the big picture, given that I am conquering intact most of the industries through automatic switches.

Madras was defended, but I don't see how a couple of battered units, one of the a "fort" can completely wipe out the base. It's quite twisted, but I know how it works and there isn't much I can do.

Soerabaja f.ex. is being encircled precisely to diminish the possibility of a complete destruction due to withdraw, even if it will likely fall quickly and with massive casualties among the defenders, which aren't going to have many survivors.



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/12/2021 12:00:07 PM)

14-16 FEBRUARY 1942
TURN 70-73


I) DEI THEATER

I keep pressure on southern DEI and now I have gathered a super strong force in Ambon: they're gonna blast Darwin.

Expected in a couple of days the assault on Soerabaja.


II) PACIFIC OCEAN THEATER

Nothing new.


III) CHINA THEATER

I'm attacking NORTH of Sian and cleaning various hexes left behind.


IV) INDIA THEATER

Things are going smoothly and I'm putting pressure on Bombay.


V) OTHER

Nothing new.


INDIA THEATER:

[image]local://upfiles/59041/4357A3ED170244AF8590787DDA0E0F8C.jpg[/image]



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/13/2021 5:29:30 PM)

17-23 FEBRUARY 1942
TURN 74-80


I) DEI THEATER

I conquer Soerabaja and kill in the process over 12.000 enemy troops. Industries basically intact. Now, I'm sweeping the mines from the base and then I load the troops for the next adventure (Darwin).

In Darwin, I did a massive set of bombing runs with CAs and BBs over the course of two days and I destroy many a/c on the ground. Thomas sent heavily escorted bombers on my TFs but KB manages to protect everyone. My TFs will now refuel and rearm in Ambon, where I have brought AOs and AKEs.


II) PACIFIC OCEAN THEATER

Massive fights over Cairns, where there are over 170 enemy fighters. I did pretty bad on the first day with my A6M2s form Buna, but then allied casualties started to mount. Last day I swept with KB coming from Darwin area and fighters from Buna: 40-5 in my favour accordingly to "i" and replay.



III) CHINA THEATER

After the fall of Sian, I'm now in the process of attacking Chungking plateau from the area NORTH of Sian. The enemy is trying to bring every single unit available in the area, given the threat I'm posing to Chungking itself.
Apparently, Thomas is leaving behind many positions in southern China and lowering the amount of troops in both Canton area and Changsha.


IV) INDIA THEATER

In India I am marching around meeting little resistance. After the fall of Magwe (intact), also Burma is basically mine. Tomorrow I expect a group of tanks to reach Ledo, probably empty.
Huge numbers of ART are approaching Bombay, together with 2 divisions and a fragment of a third. Don't think they'll be sufficient, but I start to put pressure on the city.


V) OTHER

I'm very surprised by the amount of fighters in Australia, brought there by the surviving US CVs, and by the fact that Xenxen is still out of balance in India. India, which is going to be conquered very quickly, I suppose.

In general, I believe Thomas is reinforcing Australia in order to be able to launch an early counterattack in SoPac. We'll see whether it's gonna be a good bet (think so) from his side.


INDIA THEATER [FEW DAYS AGO]:

[image]local://upfiles/59041/E81A3C01BF72429393A1DFB1417E18A5.jpg[/image]



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/13/2021 5:30:14 PM)

CHINA THEATER [FEW DAYS AGO]:

[image]local://upfiles/59041/EFFD8230CCC9471D8C153CB1CD0204B7.jpg[/image]



ny59giants -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/13/2021 6:03:38 PM)

USA gets five groups of P-40s in Australia in mid-Jan and they all need some replacement airframes to fill out, but have poor pilots. They are there for 60 days (mid-March '42) before being withdrawn, but both pilots and airframes will remain. As Allied player, I often just train up the pilots and do not use them unless its a emergency. So, if your opponent wants to commit them now, they shoot them down and get rid of pilots and airframes.

Remember, the Allies, especially the Americans get plenty of pilots, but not enough airframes. Meanwhile, Japan gets to build plenty of airframes, but don't get enough pilots.



RangerJoe -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/13/2021 6:07:31 PM)

Your troops won't take Dutch prisoners? [:-] Or if they do, then you kill them? [:-] [;)]



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/14/2021 5:19:29 AM)

The opponent surrenders.



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/14/2021 12:29:12 PM)

Well, the AAR is then closed.

I'm quite disappointed, but... **** happens.[8|]



RangerJoe -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/14/2021 12:56:58 PM)

That was fast. He must be . . .



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/14/2021 5:05:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That was fast. He must be . . .




To be fair, surrendering as the allies after 70 turns is quite bad. Seems like I'm very unlucky in picking opponents.



USSAmerica -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/15/2021 3:22:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

The opponent surrenders.


[:(]



DesertWolf101 -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/15/2021 4:53:18 AM)

I'm sorry to see this end so quickly.... [:(]



PaxMondo -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/15/2021 5:07:10 AM)

Really sorry that this ended so soon ...



AlbertN -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/15/2021 10:54:47 AM)

I can quite imagine the frustration, considering how long this game can demand in terms of time, to get started and then ditched early.



Bif1961 -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/15/2021 9:59:13 PM)

Sorry to see it end, but a new stitch in your Senninbari.



XENXEN -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/21/2021 9:14:19 PM)

Hi

As I said in the reply im sorry I wasted your time starting this game I should have read the HR discussion better and been more clear in my writing. Also i should have stopped the game when you landed in Mersine and port moresby on day one but it is more then 10 years since i have run in to those trick from a opponent and when you never showed up at PH i should have stopped it there or when you started with the stratosphere zero sweeps. I must be more clear with the HR in my next game

It was not fair that i just stopped playing when i realised that you were going for India in January with no chance of defending it. It was a waste of your time and not really a nice thing to do but i am surprised that you never really caught on to that fact that i was flying cap at 1000 feet and that My units more or less stopped moving for 30+/- turns

Again im sorry for this and i hope you find a new opponent that fits to you play style



RangerJoe -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/21/2021 9:25:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: XENXEN

Hi

As I said in the reply im sorry I wasted your time starting this game I should have read the HR discussion better and been more clear in my writing. Also i should have stopped the game when you landed in Mersine and port moresby on day one but it is more then 10 years since i have run in to those trick from a opponent and when you never showed up at PH i should have stopped it there or when you started with the stratosphere zero sweeps. I must be more clear with the HR in my next game

It was not fair that i just stopped playing when i realised that you were going for India in January with no chance of defending it. It was a waste of your time and not really a nice thing to do but i am surprised that you never really caught on to that fact that i was flying cap at 1000 feet and that My units more or less stopped moving for 30+/- turns

Again im sorry for this and i hope you find a new opponent that fits to you play style


You should have let him know much sooner.[:-]

Even if you lost most if not all of India, you could comeback from that.



XENXEN -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (3/21/2021 10:55:48 PM)

Yes I know I should never have started the game at all.

And a come back would not have been any fun for anyone it would have been years of sitting around and then the allied would have just rolled over Japan with stratosphere sweeps, 4e bombers and fletcher hoards and that would be even less fun for anyone.



RedTeamFred -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (5/8/2021 5:06:24 AM)

ITAKLinus,

I have to say this is one of the most remarkable AARs I've ever read. I don't know if you still visit this AAR, but I've just spent the last few days with my mouth open at the speed and application of force you accomplished as Japan. Bravo!

Of course, many players go to lengths to understand and maximize the oil/resources HI/LI aspect of the game, as well as calculating risks regarding areas to bypass and assets/areas to invade. But this is a whole new level for me to see. It's remarkable. My hat's off to you. I'm going to bookmark it for a slow read and analysis in my game future for sure.

XENXEN, I personally think you needn't be so hard on yourself for conceding the game. After many years reading these AARs, I've come to believe people are much too quick to voice their disapproval when someone who, in their opinion, "quits the game early."

I say so be it, live and let live, learn from the experience and move on. I'm certainly not a fan of, say, forcing someone to sit through a real thrashing just to allow me the satisfaction of seeing the success of my plans; especially in a situation like here, where you clearly see the futility of future efforts for a very long time to come. It's probably best you both move on and find new opponents. As I said, what Linus has done here is remarkable, exceptional. I haven't seen planning and play like this by Japan since Admiral Laurent, Olorin, or koniu. In the face of such play: no harm, no foul. I think at some point, it's ungentlemanly NOT to allow you to concede gracefully.

Fred



XENXEN -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (5/8/2021 9:25:42 AM)

I do not have regret for stopping the game only starting it with out more of the anti exploit HR and a better understanding of my opponents wish for gameplay style.



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 8:53:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedTeamFred

ITAKLinus,

I have to say this is one of the most remarkable AARs I've ever read. I don't know if you still visit this AAR, but I've just spent the last few days with my mouth open at the speed and application of force you accomplished as Japan. Bravo!

Of course, many players go to lengths to understand and maximize the oil/resources HI/LI aspect of the game, as well as calculating risks regarding areas to bypass and assets/areas to invade. But this is a whole new level for me to see. It's remarkable. My hat's off to you. I'm going to bookmark it for a slow read and analysis in my game future for sure.

XENXEN, I personally think you needn't be so hard on yourself for conceding the game. After many years reading these AARs, I've come to believe people are much too quick to voice their disapproval when someone who, in their opinion, "quits the game early."

I say so be it, live and let live, learn from the experience and move on. I'm certainly not a fan of, say, forcing someone to sit through a real thrashing just to allow me the satisfaction of seeing the success of my plans; especially in a situation like here, where you clearly see the futility of future efforts for a very long time to come. It's probably best you both move on and find new opponents. As I said, what Linus has done here is remarkable, exceptional. I haven't seen planning and play like this by Japan since Admiral Laurent, Olorin, or koniu. In the face of such play: no harm, no foul. I think at some point, it's ungentlemanly NOT to allow you to concede gracefully.

Fred



Fred, thank you very much for the kind words. I am really thankful.

It's been a quick and brutal game. Organization and a clear strategic posture always win matches: I simply didn't expect this to finish so early.






ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 9:02:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: XENXEN

Hi

As I said in the reply im sorry I wasted your time starting this game I should have read the HR discussion better and been more clear in my writing. Also i should have stopped the game when you landed in Mersine and port moresby on day one but it is more then 10 years since i have run in to those trick from a opponent and when you never showed up at PH i should have stopped it there or when you started with the stratosphere zero sweeps. I must be more clear with the HR in my next game

It was not fair that i just stopped playing when i realised that you were going for India in January with no chance of defending it. It was a waste of your time and not really a nice thing to do but i am surprised that you never really caught on to that fact that i was flying cap at 1000 feet and that My units more or less stopped moving for 30+/- turns

Again im sorry for this and i hope you find a new opponent that fits to you play style


You should have let him know much sooner.[:-]

Even if you lost most if not all of India, you could comeback from that.


The bold part is false. I have saves from the game proving that, also. Moreover, the surrender came only after I complained that the "no 4E in NavB" HR has been violated.


RJ, I agree that a comeback is possible after India is lost, but it's admittedly very difficult.

I have another game in which I conquered the whole India plus China and which ended in April 1944. I restarted from Jan-1944 as allied with a new top-notch player taking the japanese side and I'm struggling immensely even though the US fleet/army are more or less intact. A comeback is possible but in 1943 and keeping China in my opinion. Later than that, it's quite complex if the Japanese player doesn't have a mental breakdown.

Moreover, the quality of play that makes you conquer India and makes the other player lose it, is not lost once the conquest of India is completed. To state it in other words, it's almost impossible that a player who is unable to defend India and loses it badly is then able to be skilled enough to turn the course of the war.

In the aforementioned game, when I was still playing as Japanese, I embarked in a massive industrial plan which was meant to give me 20.000 modern a/c in the pool by June 1944 and an astonishing amount of older models as well. Not to speak of the Ki-94-II arriving in Sept/Oct 1944. Etcetc.



ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 9:03:48 AM)

PaxMondo, AlbertN, Bif1961

Thank you all for the support. It's been a shame the match ended so soon but what can I do? [:D][:D]




ITAKLinus -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 9:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: XENXEN

Hi

As I said in the reply im sorry I wasted your time starting this game I should have read the HR discussion better and been more clear in my writing. Also i should have stopped the game when you landed in Mersine and port moresby on day one but it is more then 10 years since i have run in to those trick from a opponent and when you never showed up at PH i should have stopped it there or when you started with the stratosphere zero sweeps. I must be more clear with the HR in my next game

It was not fair that i just stopped playing when i realised that you were going for India in January with no chance of defending it. It was a waste of your time and not really a nice thing to do but i am surprised that you never really caught on to that fact that i was flying cap at 1000 feet and that My units more or less stopped moving for 30+/- turns

Again im sorry for this and i hope you find a new opponent that fits to you play style


What kind of "tricks"? I play well, you don't. That's the bottom line.

Basically stating that I accomplished what I did accomplish during the match due to "tricks" etcetc is an interesting way to deal with failures on all fronts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: XENXEN

I do not have regret for stopping the game only starting it with out more of the anti exploit HR and a better understanding of my opponents wish for gameplay style.


If an enemy doesn't do what you want him to do is an "exploit"? That's interesting. I'd be glad to know whether, as Japanese player, I could define 'using US CVs' as an "exploit". Or maybe I should start seeing as an "exploit" using allied 4Es?

Just out of curiosity, it might lead to the discovery of an interesting stream of thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: XENXEN
Yes I know I should never have started the game at all.

And a come back would not have been any fun for anyone it would have been years of sitting around and then the allied would have just rolled over Japan with stratosphere sweeps, 4e bombers and fletcher hoards and that would be even less fun for anyone.


That's your thought. Given the performance in losing both India and a good chunk of China in less than 70 turns, I'd be surprised of any "rolling over Japan" even in 1947.

Moreover, waiting for years shows, per-se, a very limited understanding of the possibilities of the allied side. Not to mention an extremely poor strategic posture.





xen -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 11:52:46 AM)

As i write it was my Fault that i did not put in more HR's. Without the House rules the game will not work if the play styles are to different and our style were very different. I'm not saying they were wrong but some play to win as fast as they can and some want a long game with many challenges.

In all the time i have played this game i have seen many tricks/tactics/exploits (there are many names for them) "the Fortress Palembang". The landing at Mersing. Peace in china. Ignoring the Philippines. Super Sweeps. Low alt 4e bombing. Supercharge A/c production. R And D Zero before time. Carrier Expand zero group to max. One ship task force. Merchant-ship anti carrier patrols. The 100% air search bombing. The Fletcher hoard.

And many many more. Most of them are just historical unrealistic others are game breaking. That is why HR are used. The reason some are see as exploits are be course they break the game like the Fortress Palembang when it was discoverer allot of games were ruined by that and most games had HR that stopped that. The same with not moving ships around Singapore until it is captured or no landing at Mersing is to prevent early access to India since it is mostly undefended during the start of the war.

Sorry but if you look at some of the last Air battles over Australia you will see the super low flying cap i was trying to see if CAP ALT still had a say in the game.

Now since you call me a Bad player i assume you can tell me how you would defend India against 8 divisions+ with around 1 divisions worth of points. The first understrength div just came a few days after the invasion. This is why many will play historical games to prevent early blobs of infantry.

I'm not calling you a cheat or a bad player and i am taking the responsibility for not insisting on more HR or declining to start the game.









RangerJoe -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 1:52:58 PM)

All of those "tricks" have both counters and costs. Check out this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4881147&mpage=94�



BBfanboy -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 4:45:25 PM)

Complaints that imply your opponent was not playing fairly are painful to see - very unsportsmanlike in my opinion. Such concerns should be exchanged between players off-line - by Private Message or E-mail.

When you have reached an understanding of each other's point of view, it can be shared as a disagreement about choice of tactics or strategy, but attacking someone's personal integrity is sure to lead to a flame war, which benefits no one.



xen -> RE: WITP: Logistician's Edition - Linus (J) vs Xenxen (A) (7/22/2021 5:00:57 PM)

I'm not sure what you are on about. I Have stated that I take responsibility for the ending of the game and for starting it in the first place. I said our play style do not match not the anyone's play style is "wrong".

It looks more like you are trying to start a "flame war".




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