RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (Full Version)

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chaos45 -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/29/2021 10:10:45 PM)

They lost a fair few bombers doing it so that was a cost of night bombing the railyards.



carlkay58 -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/30/2021 1:04:52 AM)

The Axis could always use the Bf110E fighters on night only to do the night interceptions. That is what they turned out to do best.



joelmar -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/30/2021 6:12:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

They lost a fair few bombers doing it so that was a cost of night bombing the railyards.


Knowing how important level 2+ railyards and ports are in this game, for that amount of damage, I'd be willing to loose a lot more bombers! The exchange is worth it many times IMO.

And the Soviets didn't need to use any of their precious fighters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The Axis could always use the Bf110E fighters on night only to do the night interceptions. That is what they turned out to do best.


Not sure it would do much good, interception during the enemy air phase is quite low even during the day and supposed to be even lower at night.



Repsol -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/30/2021 8:08:35 PM)

Good to see that air directives other then recon and GS proves useful [:)]

As for balacing...Time will tell i guess if such attacks currently are TO powerfull and needs some additional tweaking.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 3:30:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

They lost a fair few bombers doing it so that was a cost of night bombing the railyards.


Yup, they did & said losses were high.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 3:32:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The Axis could always use the Bf110E fighters on night only to do the night interceptions. That is what they turned out to do best.



Yup, used to do this in WITE1. Now people should realize why I took the 110's and sent them to re-train as fighters on the first turn earlier in the AAR. I will set it up the same way I did in WITE1.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 3:39:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Good to see that air directives other then recon and GS proves useful [:)]

As for balacing...Time will tell i guess if such attacks currently are TO powerfull and needs some additional tweaking.


It is reminiscent of WITE1 & I was able to handle night bombing just fine. I was mearly pointing out for new people to be aware of railyard bombing. I started turn one by sending my Bf-110's bomber to retrain(takes 8 turns to retrain to fighters) for night fighting. I also now have all my AA to put in to key railyard stations(I play with unlocked HQ's to have all my support in OKH turn 2). These two items did the trick in WITE1 & I just tested the same setup here in WITE2 in a practice game against myself. It works just like it did in WITE1 no problem. Now lets see how it plays out in a real game.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 3:44:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

They lost a fair few bombers doing it so that was a cost of night bombing the railyards.


Knowing how important level 2+ railyards and ports are in this game, for that amount of damage, I'd be willing to loose a lot more bombers! The exchange is worth it many times IMO.

And the Soviets didn't need to use any of their precious fighters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The Axis could always use the Bf110E fighters on night only to do the night interceptions. That is what they turned out to do best.


Not sure it would do much good, interception during the enemy air phase is quite low even during the day and supposed to be even lower at night.


Ya, night interception is pretty low, like in the single digits for a full German squadron. That is why I use the small German 4 & 12 plane fighter groups to intercept just like I did in WITE1. I have it set up for turn 2 now. See what we get if anything if Bobo returns again. He did take a great many losses for sure but he can afford it for awhile but not forever. The question is will it be worth it? That is the question & time will tell.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 3:57:40 AM)

Turn 2

Still working on turn 2 to send back but work has me busy the last two days. I should have the turn back to 821Bobo tomorrow at the latest.

I did find this Recon battle interesting since I didn't set a directive for that many planes. Seems to be the sum of the recon in the area for this fight. I guess I will look in the manual to try and find anything. Yes, I started reading the darn manual finally :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/87BD398D2E62484ABEF34069F819C534.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 4:02:42 AM)

Turn 2

Air losses after German Air Execution.

Here were the air losses for my air execution phase and the Soviets bombing of rail yards.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/7A07F5FAA3094235A30DD9CDF3CDA6A4.jpg[/image]



joelmar -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 12:43:11 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Ya, night interception is pretty low, like in the single digits for a full German squadron. That is why I use the small German 4 & 12 plane fighter groups to intercept just like I did in WITE1. I have it set up for turn 2 now. See what we get if anything if Bobo returns again. He did take a great many losses for sure but he can afford it for awhile but not forever. The question is will it be worth it? That is the question & time will tell.


Indeed, I hope he continues, I've been curious to see the mid-long term effects of sustained summer 41 Soviet railyard bombing in a HvsH game for a while! My theory is the Soviet player can sustain it long enough to be very annoying for the Axis, particularly in the south. We shall see.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 12:48:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 2

Still working on turn 2 to send back but work has me busy the last two days. I should have the turn back to 821Bobo tomorrow at the latest.

I did find this Recon battle interesting since I didn't set a directive for that many planes. Seems to be the sum of the recon in the area for this fight. I guess I will look in the manual to try and find anything. Yes, I started reading the darn manual finally :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/87BD398D2E62484ABEF34069F819C534.jpg[/image]



Yup, this is what I thought per the rule from my observation. Nice to know now for sure;

19.3.4. Anti-Aircraft Fire and
Combat Reports
As aircraft fly along their path on a mission, the flak they
fly over accumulates until an air battle or a bombing/recon
occurs. At this point, all the flak they have flown over fires
at the aircraft before the air battle or bombing/recon takes
places (and all of the flak is listed as participating in this
battle). If no battle takes place on the way home, any flak
flown over and the losses caused by this prior to landing
are retroactively placed into the last battle site report that
had been created by the mission.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (3/31/2021 12:53:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Ya, night interception is pretty low, like in the single digits for a full German squadron. That is why I use the small German 4 & 12 plane fighter groups to intercept just like I did in WITE1. I have it set up for turn 2 now. See what we get if anything if Bobo returns again. He did take a great many losses for sure but he can afford it for awhile but not forever. The question is will it be worth it? That is the question & time will tell.


Indeed, I hope he continues, I've been curious to see the mid-long term effects of sustained summer 41 Soviet railyard bombing in a HvsH game for a while! My theory is the Soviet player can sustain it long enough to be very annoying for the Axis, particularly in the south. We shall see.


Im sure he will continue. Will have to see what the counter measures do in WITE2.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 3:58:44 PM)

I have to say I am "extremely" disappointed in the Night Air to Air against Soviet Bombers. Seems to be the same "exact" scenerio as in WITE1 runtime in the older WITE1 patches. Germans will intercept with normal squadrons at night and the Soviets maul the Germans. As if the Soviet bombers were the fighters and the German fighters were the bombers. There is literly "NO" reason to fly normal size German squadron at night in this patch to stop Soviet Night bombing! This is exactly the same in the old patch WITE1 before handed over to Morvael. So regular size German squadrons might as well be shooting themselves in the head when intercepting Soviet bombers at night. So in essence German regular size fighters are not a good counter-tactic in stopping Soviet Night Bombing WITE2.(same as in WITE1)

Lets take a look at a Soviet Bomber stream of 7 interceptions before hitting Kaunas & Kaunas itself. I won't include the flak combat in Kaunus at the moment and will save that for later. Here are the 7 combats pictured below.



[image]local://upfiles/53556/84A2BF7A9D944040BEC20B22B5495365.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:01:14 PM)

Combat number "1"

This isnt too bad, at least it was only 2 fighters for 1 bomber.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/789957D9B69840BE823F0EB317947D39.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:03:24 PM)

Comber number "2"

7 German fighters for 4 bombers. I am sure we have night landings and darkness and all kind of other craziness too. But I digress for now.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/223C9836639C4FCB84759E6E556CC619.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:04:55 PM)

Combat number "3"

6 German for 2 Soviet Bombers.

Still pretty bad ratio

[image]local://upfiles/53556/5B668D485B8D4A898890315BF8C93BCD.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:06:14 PM)

Comber number "4"

5 for 17

At least this sorta of made up for the other ones. But this is only 1 of two :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/DEA86376436644AA8BE2F84DD859163B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:07:07 PM)

Combat number 5

8 Germans for 2 Soviets

GAH!!!!

[image]local://upfiles/53556/D3270B0EFF8B42DBACC1D2A5C4C5326E.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:10:42 PM)

Comber number 6

4 German for 7 Soviet




[image]local://upfiles/53556/ACD4F927ED724B83BC68328577F0B327.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:11:37 PM)

Combat number 6 2nd intercept in hex



[image]local://upfiles/53556/444A90DCC408410883FB8783BE8843B9.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:12:47 PM)

Combat number 7



[image]local://upfiles/53556/DCD63D33990848DEB2D8561AB0ED63EF.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:13:35 PM)

Combat number 7 2nd intercept in hex



[image]local://upfiles/53556/FE3AAB2B367F48E4A616B53C63FE58EF.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:14:46 PM)

Air Combat in Kaunas 1st



[image]local://upfiles/53556/C95FFE3762D449D69F02C8B071559C4B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:15:22 PM)

Air Combat in Kaunas 2nd

[image]local://upfiles/53556/09B6AB7435BF4B02BCE6DEBAFB1E9C29.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:15:58 PM)

Air Combat in Kaunas 3rd

[image]local://upfiles/53556/72651A321608421E8CBD8B521AA63803.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:16:42 PM)

Air Combat in Kaunas 4th



[image]local://upfiles/53556/53032D21C3F04637BBEEB459F8868917.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:26:40 PM)

In conclusion;

Scratch off normal size German squadron flying Night intercept. It is TOTALLY WORTHLESS. I do hope the power to be looks into this at a minimum & let everyone know this is "working as intended". Is it?

With normal German Air Squadrons off the table to try and stop Soviet bombing I had much higher hopes of scoring AA hits. Unfortunately, this was a no go too :( I did just put the AA in the hex the turn of the bombing so may have had an impact. But for all practical purposes the "ONLY" delimiter to deter Soviet bombing is to just let them do it :(

I will try the German 4 plane and 12 plane squadrons next. But I don't have any hope left other than pray for small damage from Soviet bombers.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:34:29 PM)

AA over Kaunas

You will notice there is hardly any deviation from last turns AA totals with AA in Kaunas. Guess I should just put the AA back into my Units and Unit HQ's.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/5DC1C21856D6434BB7BB01F19B521F96.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!! HLYA(G) vs 821Bobo (S) All are welcome (4/2/2021 4:35:13 PM)

AA over Kaunas number 2

[image]local://upfiles/53556/F5BCE832F89C4DF88EB6285A06273D5E.jpg[/image]



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