RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG

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AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 8:20:22 AM)
T55 - National Morale Plummet? This may be a bug, I just doublechecked even on the Live Manual and it seems to me that this should happen at September and not at July '42. Even living manual says it should be at September '42 and not July '42. But German National Morale dropped by 5 all around... Think I'll save up to server and stop for now after making a post on the Tech Forum. [image]local://upfiles/36315/437666EAF0A349C3ADD6371DC09D82FE.jpg[/image]

loki100 -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 8:39:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN ... Opinion 2: That is something that goes both ways but I deeply preferred the WITE1 approach to morale and movement - and I believe Admin Movement should not be viable when too close to the enemy. Given I'll benefit of that as well, that infantry from the south is to march by that armoured corp and deliberate attack it, I think... but in general Admin Movement paired up with 'getting to the enemy' allows grand sweeps and maneuvers, and to attack easily and cheaply even with units that are miles and miles away. That, teaming up with the fact to move offroad has the same cost no matter the troop quality makes some operational ordeals ... iffy. - I firmly believe that Admin Movement should not be enabled if within 3 hexes of the enemy or so; and adding it as one of the T1 special rules for Germans, that ignore that penalty. That way hit and run attacks or sweeping maneuvers are not that doable anymore, and movements points are more relevant if at the frontline. Then by all means, if someone's marching in the rearlines, they should be perfectly able to use Admin Movement all the way down from point A to point B. ... really well written and presented - and good to see another 1941 GC into 1942. there is a solution to the problem but most Axis players don't use it. Simply run a broad based GA-interdiction mission in the key sectors. I ended up doing this a lot in an otherwise badly flawed (by me) 1941 GC and it worked. My opponent confirmed it largely deprived him of admin movement on the key sectors. now you have to guess where your spearheads will be - prob easier in 42 than 41 - but you don't need to divert much. A few Ju-88 air groups with that load of 50lb bombs will do the job (in the main with interdiction more weapons - even low calibre - are better than fewer but heavier). I think Axis players have over-looked the value of interdiction missions, since you can rarely get much it seems pointless but it can add up.

Gunnulf -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 11:54:13 AM)
Cutting that railine to Leningrad and leaving him just one might not gift you the city, but it will reduce his ability to sustain a counter-offensive from here in winter. If nothing else it will focus his attention and if you can expand these heavy wooded areas with at least a road heading back this will be tough to shift. You probably want to move infantry up here soon though as armour fighting Rifle corps in heavy woods will be expensive for you as best I would think, if not disasterous if sustained. Looks like you have had a busy campaign so far. Pretty terrifying that there are enough Guard corps already to number one the 12th!

MSAG -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 12:27:18 PM)
Hi, AlbertN was so kind to invite me to this AAR to present my side of the story. So without further ado ... SUMMER 41 It was my first H2H game in WITE2. I did not know what to expect really. Usually while playing Soviets my priorities are to stall the Leningrad offensive and to defend Moscow. South comes third. That worked … to a degree. Axis abandoned the Leningrad offensive (for a time) and focused on the South. My opponent is very offensive minded and he was generating breakthroughs and bagging scores of my units every turn. My forces were melting … fast. It was very difficult to watch. None of my plans really worked. Forces were disappearing faster than I could mobilize them. Enough to say that I managed to reach 4M on map mark only in early 1942. But somehow, I persevered. The Soviet army absorbed massive losses (from what I have read in other AARs the losses were above average). And still could go on. What I think I did wrong (1) I should have defended more the cities and especially urban hexes. I used to treat them on par with, lets say, Heavy Woods hexes. Spending even 100K troops to defend Kharkov, Kiev or Dnepropetrovsk even for 1-2 turns (and getting 100% railyard damage) is worth it during the summer 41. (2) I kept the units at 100% TOE during the first 5-8 turns. The forum wisdom is that 100% TOE units fight better, which seems to be true. However (1) a lot of units during the first 10 turns of the game have very low morale & break anyway with massive losses and (2) with Albert’s playing style I run out of reinforcements (both manpower and HW). So after turn 10 I had majority of my Rifle Divisions not on 14K men + 230 guns but on 7K+60. So in retrospect I think I should have prioritized the high morale units to keep them at 100% and probably merge/disband some depleted ones. (3) I practically abandoned Rostov. It was around T15. Albert units were very low on supply. I could have defended it better. To my defence – the turns T15-T18 were the moment of lowest morale for me. I did not believe that I can defend ANYTHING. What I think worked out right (or at least ok) (1) I preserved (to a degree) my Tank and Mech Divisions. I kept them in the 2nd and 3rd line. They could fight and rout, but I wanted to avoid having the surrounded and surrendering. Rationale - keeping captured Vehicles (by Axis) as low as possible. I believe that the supply is a greatest weakness of Axis in 41/42. Vehicles affect the problem. (2) I kept the top 8 morale divisions in reserve. In Moscow. Even during the most dire moments. So I had a bunch of ‘8=8’ units in November. Those units and newly created Cavalry Corps enabled my winter counteroffensive. (In retrospect, have I defended key urban areas – I would have had used them there). WINTER 41/42 My error #3 led to Axis overconfidence (which shows that in this game even the suboptimal strategies can have surprising upsides!). They started to move towards Stalingrad (as Albert told me later he planned to destroy the rail line to prevent Soviet buildup). So to my surprise I realized that the units in front of me are of very, very low CV & managed to catch his lead troops unprepared. I was happy with the success of the push back in December. Both around Voronezh and along Stalingrad – Rostov rail line Axis forces were overextended and undersupplied. Still, the scope of the offensive was rather limited & local. All the winter the well supplied defence line from Narva to Kaluga was practically impregnable for me. During Dec / Jan turns one could feel the reversal of the roles! A short period of successes allowed me to reach 4M forces mark. Axis started to regain strength already in Feb 42 however. Their retreat stopped. On top of that both AGN and AGC started attacking – limited attacks at first started to gain momentum and morph into real offensives. Needless to say most of my best troops were busy south. The curse of (6k men -60 guns) divisions caught up with me. Even 3 div stacks in the heavy woods positions were giving ground, often with catastrophic losses! During March-April I started to loose ground again. In the sectors I thought were safe since fall 41. I was happy to see the change of the weather. The pause caused by the mud season gave me some time to regain the balance. SPRING 42 I used the pause to optimize my force. Started to form the Rifle Corps, culled my weaker units (disbanded 50+ divisions, perhaps more), benefitted from increased artillery production. In the first weeks of May I reached the 5M force! In early May I was able to look into the future with some optimism…. TO BE CONTINUED …

Stamb -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 1:15:14 PM)
Great info from both of you. Keep going![;)]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 5:58:46 PM)
T55 - Moscow Sector Decided to march in and go hug the Soviets. As a relevant note the Soviets did not held all the riverline but a hex in clear was left vacant. The Model Corp launched an attack across the river in what seemed a not too strong position, but it revealed to have a Guard Infantry Corps (and a fortified position) in there that easily repelled the attempt at river crossing by 3 veteran German divisions with morale 80+ and arguably led by the best leader at hand and with Luftwaffe support in a deliberate attack. As the National Morale dropped to 70 this turn, this defeat smoked a huge chucnk of the morale of the German forces, reducing some from well 80+ to 77 for one division. Dang! I feel that there is lots of work to get some morale up and then boom, one failure or isolation and the hammer falls if one is above the NM. This would be also a rather precarious position for me too I feel, the river is a minor one, and the Russians have fat units by now. But I suspect MSAG would well content to keep that position til the winter comes and then once the river freeze... I am the one in open plains! The 3rd Panzer Army makes some progress but the Guard Corps there are horrific. Germany won and caused a retreat but suffered pratically more losses (Soviets lost 1k extra men, but Germany lost the double of the guns). Definitely a phyrric victory. The 'not too fun' aspect is that I am sure if it was not for air supply that is hardly intercepted the Soviets with utmost chances would have just attacked the next turn the fatigued and exhausted German forces and shoved them away way better. 2nd Panzergruppe has still to move and may dedicate some units as reserve for the sector. I feel the Soviets are still lurking with their Guard Cavalry and Tank Corps - but even there I feel I am the one who has to achieve something and risk. And MSAG will wait for me to commit panzers firsthand before to put into the fray his own heavy hitters. Nonetheless Soviets are quite frustrating my offensives anywhere I turn the face except the 1 hex a turn slog toward Leningrad. [image]local://upfiles/36315/E4A51FBCDB01482FAEADD2BE2643DC69.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 6:06:30 PM)
T55 - Voronhez This sample of episode here can spell doom for my game because I just realized if I struggle so long to isolate Voronhez due to air supply that goes into the pocket, I will never get Leningrad isolated either at this stage. Especially as Flak seems highly inefficient to destroy the immortal Li2 planes. (Someone made a post about it some time ago) The Italian AA units have not even fired at them. At all! Now I've got these, and there are more attached to the other units screening Voronhez ontop of the HQs being loaded too. I've deliberately ran Air Supply all around Voronhez to supply the units with the AA. It's like 6-7 turns that Voronhez now is encircled! Also note how much Morale german units lose through winter - I just lowered from 75 to 70. So this unit had NM 75 til pratically now. It has 9 Wins and 0 Losses. It means it never got defeated in combat, routed or retreated or stalled. Morale loss are just due to Soviet Winter! [image]local://upfiles/36315/55CA01E1A87E45B0AED584A2A234441F.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/6/2021 6:23:54 PM)
T55 North About end of movement / turn northern front. Here it is litterally push and shove for Germans. And at least it seems to work to get ahead without getting massively counter-shanked in the process. Air supply helps here a lot as well. And interception (or lack of) is less significant as both here and in the Moscow sector I've proper fighters ready to escort. My problem right now is that even if I encircle Leningrad I do not think I will be able to stop air supply to it. And as seen for Voronhez, no unit will be considered Isolated at all and they'll remain mightily combat efficient. A single regiment could not hold the rail and I was not able to reinforce that hex without severely risking a cut off. So I kept some forces static - maybe in reserve! - and pulled the regiment back. The SS division attacked instead, and shoved away a weak division. I need more troops there - but I do not have more troops pretty much with a whole army sitting and waiting for Voronhez and the massed infantries needed for the Leningrad push and shove to the west. [image]local://upfiles/36315/2DA409075BBB409FA3096246F34A14A9.jpg[/image]

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 12:29:17 AM)
Feels like I just read the whole "War & Peace" book so far and we are only in 1942 ;-P AlbertN speaks & write English better than I do that is for sure. Germans looking pretty good in this game threatening many different places. Oh AlbertN? How you like the Italian Division in the Soviet Union ? ;-P (I won't mention what he said about his boys in a PM, Oooops, I mentioned it)

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 1:06:38 PM)
@Hyla - I've already manifest my dissenting with Italian and other Axis minors morale (ontop of feeling that German NM drops too much later on but that is for '43 onward) - and detailed elsewhere that it is a multiple hammering due to A) National morale low B) Poor leaders C) Poor equipment in quality D) Scarce equipment production to replace losses. Which renders minors virtually 'here to keep up trenches' unless used in overwhelming odds. Right now I am doing exactly what Rommel did in Afrika, for what I can. Mix the minors with Germans. So for instance the Hungarian / Romanian / Slovak mobile divisions have mobile elements of the Germans (from the SS Mot. Brigades to machine gun battallions taken from other theaters to panzer battallions). I feel that helps them an amount, allows them to net some victories to pump their unit morale up. Which will translate in experience for a hopeful later return with interests for some battles til they get hammered. T56 - Number Crunching I know some folks fancy numbers. All I can see here is that despite what I think to be a rather robust rail network, my units do not get enough supplies. The 4th Panzer is ... definitely in a pickle considering where they're headed in thick woods and with non existant roads or almost... I was thinking to have a decent grasp of logistics but instead here it seems the network is not really working properly, as the '41 penalty is relieved I expected to be able to ship a decent quantity of supply and not roughly 50% of what my troops need. Trucks - that is another relatively alien factor for me. So supposedly I lost 3085 trucks this turn just due to freight shipping. BUT if I go down the production I am producting 3710 trucks a turn. So supposedly I am in positive for now at least til winter comes roughly. (It should only improve technically as my advance rate is less than my rail repair rate!) OOB Considerations: The numbers seem promising but I somehow do not feel confident at all. Maybe it is due to my 'strategic objectives' that I gave myself for '42, that set me in the slog for Leningrad and to encircle Moscow - another seemingly impregnable bastion that do not get me to feel the difference. But ultimately I feel these numbers matter relatively little. The 4M of Soviets are better supplied in general, thus I assume recovering more fatigue quicker whilst the German formations are staggering and unable to do much in some sectors. BUT I think this is what keeps this game open. If there were 6M of Soviets on the map, I think it would be pretty much game over already for the Germans. Also as I've read now MSAG writings of above, I suspect he did a heinous mistake for himself to have merged troops and disbanded formations - since Soviets have guards in % to number of troops (so the more divisions they've the better). And whilst I am not an apt Soviet player (I am not even a good German so...) a silly 0.X strong division at times soaks up movement and fatigues up a German unit instead of having it advance. - I've also seen Russian weak division rest and gain CCPs behind the lines whilst getting replacement and ... when they got to a decent ToE they also have 100 CCPs. But I could just be speaking from impressions - I only have 1 PvP Soviet game bagged with pre-arty patch and the German bailed out on me. [image]local://upfiles/36315/DAB58C3F81884873AC441DF5F6B5F723.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 1:39:05 PM)
T56 - Voronhez surroundings Here to show a veteran German division in not exceptional supply, still somehow fatigued from previous turn. Or well 3 of them roughly the same in situation. 2 Infantry Corps managed to surround a single Soviet division. Which I believe MSAG left to its own fate for air recon (already took place here) reveals abundant Soviet forces all around, and these units for the most have not fought nor been molested recently so are fresh, supplied, well rested. On another notion Voronhez proper has not been air supplied this turn. I am not sure if the Flak deployment has impressed MSAG and favored to abandon Voronhez or if he favors stocking up planes to supply Leningrad for when (if?) will be severed and cut. [image]local://upfiles/36315/6E21DE0840EE4F90BDCD588C68466A36.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 2:56:07 PM)
T56 - The River Bend that is still Soviet... Kept under scrutiny of the Luftwaffe is this ammassing of Soviet forces here, inclusive of armoured formations. There is the idea in the air to establish the riverline for security sake, but the issue is that the Axis are short of forces in general and in some sectors Hungarians and Romanians already are occupying first line positions! (Albeit Hungarians are screening around Voronhez and behind them there is the whole 11th Army resting and preparing to storm Voronhez so it would not be a problem if the Soviets ram there). Instead here, not far from Stalingrad, at the join point of the 'diluted' 17th Army and 1st Panzer Army with the 6nd Army there is this situation of potential danger. I can already see a Russian armoured projection toward Rostov to cut the whole of the Caucasian spearhead. But in this sector as you can see the railroad arrives right there (how many supplies it ferries that's another matter). Something I kind of feel lacking is the chance to leave Ground Support on for sectors of the front. Because here I'd merrily have some bombers to stem out the enemy attacks. But if I leave the Ground Support on, it will happen all across the board. Even where I do not want it. [image]local://upfiles/36315/E972D5BBD5FD41B99FD0BAA55670962B.jpg[/image]

Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 2:58:24 PM)
IIRC one of the things that CPP affects is fatigue recovery. I've seen similar where very low CPP units still have fatigue carried over from the previous turn. Also re GS in enemy turn - just thinking out loud here as I've not tried it myself but are you able to change the mission settings to rest for the air units you don't want to fly? Although I guess that might interfere with auto-intercept missions that you might want them to still fly?

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 3:11:46 PM)
T56 - Still that River Bend... It was decided to launch a minor offensive there, considering the Infanteries are relatively fresh and some were 100 CCP loaded. On the other hand, that 3 division stack of the Soviets is a 22-22 on me (surely faulty information that does not account for the forts). That's a nifty 3 divisions there (I suspect loaded with SU). But without meaningful armoured and mobile forces in the region to encircle is beyond imagination. I've the mobile Hungarian forces not far but I do not consider them capable of holding a pocket on their own there! But they may relocated around here to be a mobile reserve in case the Russians try to attack and infiltrate in the sector. [image]local://upfiles/36315/5F2BA0C95DFE477F8F8F727866F0D151.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 5:40:54 PM)
T56 - Moscow Line holds... Probably it is I who sucks, as many complain of recent about how Germans are unstoppable. Maybe I should strip many other infantry corps of their artilleries and shift them here. Or maybe I am the one trying to operate in too many sectors at once. To an extent I like the bit of 'roleplay' where no real Corps Commander would be without corps artillery - but at the same time I do not want to have massive holes where the Soviets arrive with supreme artillery and Germans have only divisional limited assets. Nonetheless despite a minor advance in the Moscow sector at the north as you can see, this front has been pratically locked in an embrace. The Soviet numbers are simply MASSIVE and the single attack tried, not even across a river was repelled by the Russians. I am far from sure how much I can obtain from the grand plan to encircle Moscow. The enemy mobile corps are not seen and as stated previously probably waiting for the 2nd Panzer Army. Which is still refitting anyhow after some time ago 5 Panzer Divisions got all routed. [image]local://upfiles/36315/74FB58EA6A0242748B45512075D09D20.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/7/2021 6:05:36 PM)
T56 - Leningrad Slog Strategic Objective nr. 2 has progress made instead. German spearheads so close to 'isolate' Leningrad. Maybe next turn? Air supply is on its the way. In the while the other railroad has been severed again in two locations. I feel I am sacrificing a mighty veteran Pz.Regiment but there was a depot there (The factory screen revealed a railyard). For obvious strategic reasons the SS Division has fair chances to get instructed not to teleport away to the Western Front for rest and refit... (That is for turn 69 so 13 turns away) but I suspect I'll need all the weight I can pull here! Once Leningrad is isolated during Soviet turns at least I can shrink the rather sizeable forces keeping its perimeter honest right now. Minor rearline reserve adjustment to be made, as I've quite a hole! [image]local://upfiles/36315/8AD55A8DF11048268B2054C685071353.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 12:23:40 PM)
T57 - Observing the turn I got Moscow sector shows 2 attacks from the Soviets. I believe well pondered one. The encirclement of one division here was broken, a panzer and motorized divisions were forced backward with some losses. I just realized that Panzer division is loaded with Czech tanks that ... well are lackluster compared to other panzers. On the other hand that failed assault left the Soviet forces ripe for a localized counterattack. The sector will need air recon, for I feel there are still the Cav.Guard.Corps lurking not far. The Soviets are still playing cautious - and their OOB is not too fat (4.3 - 4.4 M troops) which is pratically matched 1:1 for men by Germans+Allies. Though for now the Russians seem to well deny the strategic objectives of the '42 Axis Offensive. But it is also half July only. Last but not least mud and rain arrived, to hinder offensive operations. Voronhez got back to being air supplied. My flak has been underwhelming in effect and the fighters have not intercepted anything. Maybe I should try without running Air Superiority instead. Will do the air phase so any other screenie can come with the air recon included too! The Fuhrer decided to replace the commander Friederich Materna - something I am puzzled about as the poor fella had only 12 defeats, against 68 victories (assuming all weight the same). While the guy himself is nothing special it is one of the extremely few commanders that got skill-up points (to having 6 Morale rating now while I believe he started as a 5 guy - on that note I feel that skill-ups may be a bit more frequent for victorious leaders, at least the 1st and 2nd points. even after the skillup there are plenty of better leaders in the pool). [image]local://upfiles/36315/6540050B4E3D489D8C11D75A6176B4EB.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 1:27:10 PM)
T57 - Leningrad Siege 'preparations' Showing some numbers too as well for the sake of science! The Soviet line is a mix of strongpoints with mighty units; and other weaker spots that I tend to hammer on. Ideally I want to gain morale and xp for my troops whilst pounding the enemy -BUT- Morale drops like a fly because the veteran divisions on 76-80 or so morale now have a huge gap with 70. Personally I feel that Morale drops too easily by troops that stay put just because of 'factors' certainly documented (fatigue tests, supply tests, etc). But no unit dropped under 20% of their supply last I remember, and I cannot forget an Italian unit sitting in Odessa through Russian winter losing 10 morale points just because ... winter. When the front was at Rostov. Anyhow the Luftwaffe is being bolstered and the plan to bomb the port has begun - in assumption the rail connection is to be severed this turn. Alas it has not worked out as predicted and the Soviet Flak reaped a hefty amount of planes shot down. Enemy fighter presence has not showed up... and I just brought a new fighter squadron in the sector as well expecting raging air battles over Ladoga. Now this is my first time I've done strategic type of recon and bombing. Astonishingly enough (well not so much) I can inspect the hex precisely. My bombing runs delivered 39% of damage to the ports, at the cost of 30ish bombers and fighters of the escort, plus damaged ones. I expect the flak presence of the Russians to augment though and I may swap to naval interdiction if so. (If not both) Russian Flak here has been more effective than the German one around Voronhez.... [image]local://upfiles/36315/8B3986CE63DB41FFAF82DFD0B2213413.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 1:43:49 PM)
T57 - Voronhez to Caucasus panoramic Voronhez received new air supplies. Again. So not isolated anymore after 1 turn. The Luftwaffe keeps paying visit to it, but the effect sorted of perpetual bombing over weeks is meaningless. The railyard level 3 could be quite handy for supplying my local forces too... At the Don River Bend the Russians thought in wiser and longer term and retreated from the German infantry attack. Probably with due reason as half of these divisions are nominally strong as -23 average-to-date panzer divisions each. (Panzers are depleted and with not many tanks and tired whilst these divisions are rested and veteran and supplied and I had a full corp with 3 divisions strong 18 each before to launch the attack - with 100 CCPs which now are less obviously - while my regular and operationally active panzer division is strong 6-9...) Maikop was taken the previous turn, supposedly denying some oil to the Soviets. But it was ascertained in another thread that it is a redundant move. The Russians seem to plan to keep Novosibirsk there. I am not sure if I can try to do an operation in the direction to reach the sea there. I know the Russians are lurking with fresh assets and the 'harrassing' cavalries to the East and without a link up to Kerch Peninsula this whole operation can turn very sour quickly. I am not confident I can keep Maikop through the winter AND if I well understood the oil cannot be just brought via rail to Kerch, crossing the strait via a ferry or to be shipped oversea away. The railroad from there to Rostov is ... tenuous to say the least. (But I think there should be option to use the ferry or sea lift for said oil. But right now anyhow there is the ship problem that cargo ships are stuck to 5 anyhow no matter what - I remember another guy lamenting Soviets were losing ships in the Caspian.) I believe right now MSAG has hands too full elsewhere to launch a grand scale offensive here that puts Germans in a crisis. But I've been proved wrong in the past already, and a realistic opportunity I'd not discard is to simply shrink Leningrad Front and keep it supplied via air (Which is more than fair and viable even if the mechanism is potentially broken. Because both of us benefitted of it not getting intercepted by air superiority, and I feel in some spots I endured Soviet Winter better if not even smoothly due to air supply or the fact I saved a full division out of Voronhez without being intercepted.) Supposedly I assume a large garrison as the one of Leningrad cannot really be kept supplied by air efficiently. Voronhez right now may have ... some divisions? A corp? [image]local://upfiles/36315/A81089F752B94068B4C0065CC074CEF5.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 2:20:00 PM)
T57 - Voronhez '42 is over Voronhez seems the Kharkov of history, or Rostov - dancing in possession or fought for. Seized by Axis in '41 at the end of their 'Typhoon' offensive, regained by Soviets during the Winter where some German forces were destroyed by being surrounded ... now it is again in German hands after a bloody assault. This ultimately has been a repeat of Tula. With aplenty of casualties on German side but it's Urban Combat so I assume that is normal. What I found bemusing is the amount of AT Guns lost by Germans, but I feel that is how the game engine mirrors the fights. As relevant note, the perpetual uselessness of the Luftwaffe - at least by the numbers spotted there. A grand list of 0 in the Destroyed and Damaged and a handful of suppressed guys. In this battle the Germans deployed a grand array of siege artillery (which I am not sure how suited it is for Urban Combat in truth), and ended up losing a Skoda 305. All 4 of the Emperor Karl-Franz 600mm used got disrupted. I am not sure how that can supposedly happen as there were no bombers involved and these things should keep out of range of all enemy formations or so... Anyhow - the point making is that I feel as these units are highly mobile (Being SU) could just be used in open and clear terrain, I start to suspect, and tear apart enemy defenders. After all they move with the HQ. I am not sure which is the risk to lose them in open terrain - at least in '41 and '42. I feel I may have missed out by conserving them in the OKH for special situations. Considering Urban / City terrain instead 'shortens' the firing phases for the artillery, technically it is counter-productive to use Siege Guns in these fights? Counter-intuitive I feel but I suspect to have a special mechanism for a handful of units would cost more coding effort than else. Also 13 Pionere Battallions and 1 Italian Assault Engineer unit were committed to the battle, ontop of other relevant assets such as the GD Motorized Division. On the other hand I am astonished of 0 AFV losses in urban combat (Not that I wanted them there but they were bundled in the GD...) [image]local://upfiles/36315/C97BF21C662649538E9F116A850F604E.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 2:48:09 PM)
T57 - Leningrad cut off As expected from previous turn, this turn I was to cut Leningrad off via land. It happened. The wedge of the German troops marched up to the shores of Lake Ladoga. An assault on Shlussenburg was fruitless though. I am expecting a depot there and was hoping to destroy some stocked up freight. Albeit I expect the Leningrad depots being hopefully a bit empty since it is some turns the Russians are working in the region only with a single track railroad. I must build airfields right now as the pointe that is keeping the 2nd railroad is bleeding out trucks like no tomorrow. I shoul dhave foreseen this earlier already... my bad planning there. In the while the German infantries keep repelling the weak Soviet assets that come hug me, but I do not feel confident to hit the big ones except a Cavalry corp that ... well, I like to have them not too ready as they can be nasty. I feel this whole situatiol to the right portion of the map will cost me trucks but I see it as potentially vital for the fall of Leningrad (or have relief efforts fail) due to their own supply limits. Maybe in an amount of turns, once the situation is done and dusted MSAG can provide his own input to explain me his situation from his perspective. I am not sure if I should be merry and happy that the Guard Corp shoved away from the Ladoga shores retreated eastward and not westward. [image]local://upfiles/36315/C42C6AB1FC1645018201FE30DE584EC5.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 3:56:02 PM)
T57 - Caucasus Hiding units here - as I've moved already! To the southern mountain ranges I've discovered stiffened Russian resistance, quality mountain divisions are digging in the mountain ranges. To the eastern reaches a motorized pointe dislodged some cavalries that were reorganizing. Romanian cavalry as well maneuvers to explore and retreats in known territories. A full panzerkorp is kept to rest in the zone south of Stalingrad (but with Admin Movement can easily patch a crisis in the central sector). The Russians appear to still have adequate troops to Krasnodar, but at the same time I feel I can just screen there as it may equal to a suicidal move to thrust north from there. I've not made any attempt to cross Kerch strait even if I started to perform air recon now and may intensify that next turn, since the Russians may have left the straits undermanned now that they've a peril looming at the other end! This front seems quite fluid and one where I am extremely prone to suffer a debacle I feel, because that's where I've my Romanian and Italian covered flanks! I've also to ponder how to invest the 11th Army now that Voronhez was seized. Tambov that is not far from where they're is a potential objective (Some VPs and minor factories to destroy). But to relocate it to the Caucasus or toward Stalingrad seem also viable options. (Staligrad though seems a logistic nightmare with only 1 single track rail ... or better two, but the second is not exactly something I consider safe!) The problems will come with mud I feel, where the Soviet cavalries outperform the motorized units in terms of mobility. I am caressing the idea to shift around the SS.CAV division that is in the Soviet Partisan Garrison by then. [image]local://upfiles/36315/750627A924ED4C1396340B9C29CAB6DF.jpg[/image]

Beethoven1 -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 7:50:05 PM)
Very good and well done AAR! Despite how pessimistic you sound, from what I am reading it looks to me like you are doing better than historical. You have Leningrad cut off, and should be able to take it fairly easily as long as you run naval interdiction missions and move a sufficient number of planes to the Leningrad area (hint, move literally as many as necessary, without limit until Leningrad is yours). You also have advanced WAY further than historical into the Volkhov area, and have cut off rail lines that were never historically cut. Meanwhile in the center, you are only a few hexes away from Moscow, at a time when historically, the front line was back most of the way towards Vyazma/Rzhev, and even at Velikie Luki in the Toropets salient (no such salient exists in this game). Meanwhile in the south, you seem to be at about historical schedule (might even be slightly ahead there too, hard to tell without knowing the exact date). You haven't taken Stalingrad, but given that 1942 is not over yet, you would not be expected to on a historical timescale yet either. But you are close to that also nonetheless. The Red Army seems to also be fairly small, and will get smaller as soon as you wipe Leningrad. So insofar as you are pessimistic, the only rational reason for pessimism would be that Germany will - eventually - lose the war. But that is how the game is designed. To judge how you are doing, you should compare to history, not to some hypothetical situation where you get all the way to the Urals. And judging based on those criteria, you seem to be winning - the game, not the war. So I think you can pat yourself on the back for doing well and having a pretty clear upper hand as compared to the historical situation.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 9:45:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Beethoven1 Very good and well done AAR! Despite how pessimistic you sound, from what I am reading it looks to me like you are doing better than historical. You have Leningrad cut off, and should be able to take it fairly easily as long as you run naval interdiction missions and move a sufficient number of planes to the Leningrad area (hint, move literally as many as necessary, without limit until Leningrad is yours). You also have advanced WAY further than historical into the Volkhov area, and have cut off rail lines that were never historically cut. Meanwhile in the center, you are only a few hexes away from Moscow, at a time when historically, the front line was back most of the way towards Vyazma/Rzhev, and even at Velikie Luki in the Toropets salient (no such salient exists in this game). Meanwhile in the south, you seem to be at about historical schedule (might even be slightly ahead there too, hard to tell without knowing the exact date). You haven't taken Stalingrad, but given that 1942 is not over yet, you would not be expected to on a historical timescale yet either. But you are close to that also nonetheless. The Red Army seems to also be fairly small, and will get smaller as soon as you wipe Leningrad. So insofar as you are pessimistic, the only rational reason for pessimism would be that Germany will - eventually - lose the war. But that is how the game is designed. To judge how you are doing, you should compare to history, not to some hypothetical situation where you get all the way to the Urals. And judging based on those criteria, you seem to be winning - the game, not the war. So I think you can pat yourself on the back for doing well and having a pretty clear upper hand as compared to the historical situation. +1

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/8/2021 10:14:00 PM)
Oh my 'pessimism' is from German viewpoint! BUT I already decided that my 'comparison time' will be roughloy at the start of Stalingrad to Berlin time - in terms of OOB. For instance at the start of StB Scenario, Soviets have 5.3M men fielded. Now that's 1M short, but that campaign also begins after the muds... so I do not feel the numbers here off for the Soviets. On the other hand what Axis has... that yes, it's a good number. I recently realized that for instance Stalingrad has 60-70 T34 factories. Not taking Stalingrad means the Soviets will have that many tanks as extra. Every single turn. Compared to history. Just an example. Leningrad factories are evacuated for the most. So - I am doing decently? On map situation is ever variable. What matters is production (which appears simplified over, without need of resources and oil) - and present forces at hand - and status of said forces. The NM fluctuations pretty much 'harmonizes' necessarily the status of said forces with minimal variegation and fluctuation.

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/9/2021 11:58:45 AM)
T58 - Leningrad Round 1, Soviets 1 Axis 0 MSAG came in prepared and my first go at naval interdiction went poorly. I'll simply need more planes, better supply routines there and larger airbases to support the expanded airforce. Adequate allocations will begin but I impute to my being noobish not to have started some stuff beforehand already such as the airbase expansion. Ground forces still to move, may as well start to advance eastward and try to physically grab the ports supplying Leningrad as well as trying to get the depot of Shlussenburg. [image]local://upfiles/36315/87DE59817D5F4436AAC5B123D37A0B37.jpg[/image]

loki100 -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/9/2021 12:40:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlbertN T58 - Leningrad Round 1, Soviets 1 Axis 0 MSAG came in prepared and my first go at naval interdiction went poorly. I'll simply need more planes, better supply routines there and larger airbases to support the expanded airforce. ... you are spreading your naval patrol too widely - all you need is full control (2+ interdiction) of the hex due east of Osinovets

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/9/2021 2:05:38 PM)
T58 - Panzer Refit... A full PzCorp was brought back to Smolensk for refitting. They're sitting there since 2 turns and are still short-cut in ToE. Also the CP difference of 70 Panzers seem 1-2 CV and to me that is ... well AFV does not seem that impactful. That may help understand why there is perception that Motorized divisions are the true punch. Also on the map there are Guard Rifle Corps having a CV that is 23. Given, they may have SU attached and / or values are eskew due to average detection level (Just hugging them with ground units since start of the turn). Also - once the CCP are spent these 80-90% TOE panzer divisions will look quite abysmal in terms of might. Like 10-12 IF full rested, almost full TOE, and 0 CCP? Definitely underwhelming, I feel. To refit these Panzer Divisions, an amount of freight stocked in Smolensk was used. I do keep a few of these depots behind the lines BUT I discovered once made, you best not undo it, or the Freight will scatter in all the wrong ways that you do not want - because the management is stupid. I had Vitbesk earlier at 4, lowered it at 1 to have it push Freight ... onward supposedly? No way. There, send freight to locations like Rostov or so - not further east toward Moscow sector which is what makes sense. So there is Freight pratically going westward first til it can go in other directions. [image]local://upfiles/36315/106BCFF4FD484F51B5925B2BC790DD9A.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/9/2021 2:11:34 PM)
@Loki - I actually did precisely that with 1 KG per hex in 2 different Naval Patrol ADs. That with an Air Sup AD before it (But I discovered that is not good if the bombers are intercepted before to get in the shadow of the fighters!) But I believe the Interdiction splashes into other hexes. [image]local://upfiles/36315/F02CDD2ED1214442B46364EBD340A46F.jpg[/image]

AlbertN -> RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG (12/9/2021 2:56:30 PM)
T58 - New Patch and ... WTF? Now this is the -first- combat done with the new patch and it has been a bloodied nose for the Germans. An attack that I dare say in the previous patch was pratically a guaranteed dislodging of the enemy it seems to mandate more troops now. Which pretty much means - all the rest of the Soviet line will be litterally untouchable with the values they've at hand. The Soviet infantry guns alone almost match the full sum of the German artilleries involved. The Luftwaffe kept proving entirely redundant and useless. Sure the fighters shoot down the enemy fighters. But bombers that supposedly should target first the enemy artillery have done nothing. (It's odd because in Gary Grigsby A World at War air units bombing target first artilleries! It's in that game). I'll have some more battles - but right now my first vibe is that 'Right, that pretty much spells the end of a '42 offensive'. And if this is the sample for '41, best of luck to folks starting a new game with Germans. But maybe it has been the first and very isolated case where most of the German rolls failed. (I doubt as this is the 3rd Panzer and an Assault Army). [image]local://upfiles/36315/D860F649EB014A1F8D8B4F6716A91C63.jpg[/image]

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