The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (Full Version)

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RedJohn -> The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 8:58:51 AM)

I have recently started two new Soviet challenges, after blueksy resigned the latest one at turn 46 (more due to fatigue of the game and general busy life than anything, admittedly, I believe) thus adding another Soviet win to my belt.

I believe the Soviets are an overpowered mess, and can snowball extremely easy by making decisions that would have otherwise been politically suicidal. So I will espouse the knowledge I've learned over numerous Soviet games. I, myself, am a pretty bad player, but the Soviets are generous enough to the point I believe I can do well by following the same strategy over and over.

So without further ado let us begin with turn 2 [:)] My opponent is s2tanker.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/662F936C98B142A1B3EAD4B74D0EF1AF.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:01:16 AM)

I have sent the entire Southwestern front to reserve, and they will be deployed to Moscow and Leningrad. I do not believe the South is worth defending remotely, and most Axis players will get +6 VPs regardless. I will not bother evacuating industry - it is a mechanic I have ignored so far, and will continue to ignore unless I reach the unlikely state in which Leningrad, Moscow, Tula, or other such cities that did not fall historically are threatened.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/CB04CD1A65A0417CAED54F11D5FA6127.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:18:31 AM)

My air directives are default settings, as I don't really fully understand the air war. My usual strategy before the ground attack changes was to send everything to reserve and then deploy to sectors like Leningrad and Moscow and bomb the life out of panzers.

Recently I've been looking at interdiction. I don't really know if it has any impact, but hey.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/08D3D21091DF4229BD4F616CF5C78CD4.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:22:04 AM)

You might be wondering why I've screenshotted this random, marauding anti-tank unit?

[image]local://upfiles/68404/ACE6A208B1444A7B8DBF78645D4A515F.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:23:39 AM)

...It's because it just assassinated von kluge. In my other Soviet game, Manstein was also killed by a marauding isolated unit. Some individuals were claiming my attempts to get leader death chances fixed was a clear unbelievable nerf to the Soviets - and my counterargument is that it also applies to the Germans, too.

And behold!

[image]local://upfiles/68404/8D4B52D350DA4FFDB0D77902950244FF.jpg[/image]



Jango32 -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:25:41 AM)

Complacent Axis players not putting HQs on units, smh.



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:32:57 AM)

Most of the Southern front is moved to the reserve. I keep some elements behind to delay as much as they can. Malinovsky's HQ is safely sent to the reserve, as is Pavel Batov's.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/7187BA63D0C44323B169F2214DE65A2E.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:35:38 AM)

An important note, I set every unit to supply priority 4. This will ensure the good health of supply at the cost of trucks, but we'll have plenty of trucks for our purposes.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/5916A124FC084EA1B35950893871D7A4.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:48:58 AM)

Pretty healthy reserve! I will split what i can this turn roughly 50/50 between Moscow and Leningrad.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/311407696AE4497CA065E94EBA4118ED.jpg[/image]



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:49:16 AM)

I am going to like this AAR!

It is still worth to evacuate Kharkov t34 fabrics if Axis are nearby and you are not sure that you can keep this city. As airplanes/tanks really get a hit in production if taken by an enemy, opposite to armament points.



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:55:23 AM)

We end the turn with a mighty OOB. I think things are going well!

[image]local://upfiles/68404/919DB3DEE355455C8EFDDA28464A39DF.jpg[/image]



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:57:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I am going to like this ARR!

It is still worth to evacuate Kharkov t34 fabrics if Axis are nearby and you are not sure that you can keep this city. As airplanes/tanks really get a hit in production if taken by an enemy, opposite to armament points.


I might consider doing so then!



xhoel -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 10:44:39 AM)

I will be following this AAR. Interested to see how far a Soviet player can push the game mechanics.



loki100 -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 10:57:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

... I will not bother evacuating industry - it is a mechanic I have ignored so far, and will continue to ignore unless I reach the unlikely state in which Leningrad, Moscow, Tula, or other such cities that did not fall historically are threatened.

...


you can't evacuate sites that were not historically redeployed - 28.7



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 12:25:47 PM)

I have always not liked the mystical "Reserve" haven, along with bringing them to the map. Reserve should be something like 15+ hexes behind the line.(or theater boxes for North, Center, and South the reserves have to move through using rail) But yeah the Soviets can reinforce an area pretty quickly. I started down this road awhile ago on another thread but was attacked as a "game hater". I wish you luck



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 12:26:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

...It's because it just assassinated von kluge. In my other Soviet game, Manstein was also killed by a marauding isolated unit. Some individuals were claiming my attempts to get leader death chances fixed was a clear unbelievable nerf to the Soviets - and my counterargument is that it also applies to the Germans, too.

And behold!

[image]local://upfiles/68404/8D4B52D350DA4FFDB0D77902950244FF.jpg[/image]


Spot on! :)



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 12:29:30 PM)

Agree. There should be no such theater box as Reserve. Wanna refit large amount of divisions faster? Keep them near NSS. Want to move them from one side of the map to another quickly? You have to use rails.



Zovs -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 2:25:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Agree. There should be no such theater box as Reserve. Wanna refit large amount of divisions faster? Keep them near NSS. Want to move them from one side of the map to another quickly? You have to use rails.


I disagree. If you play with enhanced TB the Reserve is a great way to manage your TB.

This is a snippet from one of my AARs that I'll be posting soon but you get the gist.

TB Transfers

Western Europe
Ground at 107%, Air Day at 97% and Air Night at 101%. Air Day needs 3%, so I'll transfer in some recon from the Reserves. I may have overkilled here, I transferred in a Recon unit of 9 planes, so I'll check next turn on the percent.

Norway
Ground at 98% and Air Day at 73%. I'll send some recon from Reserves here. I sent in 2 Recon units each with 8 planes, so I'll check next turn on the percentage. Since the ground is only down by 2% I'll just transfer in one mixed flak battalion and see how much that raises it up (need to check on turn 9).

Finland
Ground at 99% and Air Day at 102%. Likewise I'll send a Mixed flak battalion here (will need to check on turn 10).

North Africa
Ground at 93% and Air Day at 117%. Looking through the R&T report shows my transfers earlier will pay off next turn in North Africa (2 Italian and 1 German Motorized Divisions (90th Light) and the 288th SP Battalion will arrive).

Italy
Ground at 104% and Air Day at 101%. So no changes here for a bit.

Balkans
Ground at 103% and Air Day at 130%. No changes here.





GFelz -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 2:52:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

Most of the Southern front is moved to the reserve. I keep some elements behind to delay as much as they can. Malinovsky's HQ is safely sent to the reserve, as is Pavel Batov's.


When you say moved to reserve, do you mean moved back as far as possible, railed away or transfered to the Moscow(?) Reserve?



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 3:44:25 PM)

What is the problem of sending units directly from a map to TBs or from one TB to another TB, or from TB to a map?

Maybe 1 more turn is needed in this cases.

But IRL you can not keep divisions somewhere in a virtual pool. And removing reserve would represent it as well as fixing Soviet teleportation.
Same should apply to the Axis of course. Not asking to remove it for the Soviets only.



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 7:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GFelz


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

Most of the Southern front is moved to the reserve. I keep some elements behind to delay as much as they can. Malinovsky's HQ is safely sent to the reserve, as is Pavel Batov's.


When you say moved to reserve, do you mean moved back as far as possible, railed away or transfered to the Moscow(?) Reserve?


By send to the reserve I mean sent to the TB reserve box. This avoids using up any rail capacity, and the only real downsides are the delay it takes to get the units there and the drainage of their supply. Often units will arrive at say 30 percent supply which isn't ideal, but I don't expect any of my units to hold anyway so it's a minor inconvenience.

Any supply issues will be fixed by unit supply priority 4, the free trucks from LL and moblising, and supply priority 4 depots.

Sending the SW front to reserve also let's me time things such that I can deploy them on my turn 3, arriving turn 4 in conjunction with the multitude of free milita divisions. This will hopefully stall any German advance for a long long time.



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 7:35:10 PM)

To be most efficient one should probably also use corps, but the only corps I use are the mech corps. I already have 1500 AFVs building up CPP in the back, and will increase that by a few thousand over the coming turns. These will attack any exposed panzers.



Jango32 -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 7:40:09 PM)

Be sure to create the super, 600 AFV strong tank divisions.



RedJohn -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 8:08:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

To be most efficient one should probably also use corps, but the only corps I use are the mech corps. I already have 1500 AFVs building up CPP in the back, and will increase that by a few thousand over the coming turns. These will attack any exposed panzers.


Here is an example of this, turn 3 of my other game. These units will be put under Rokossovosky or some other such mech general. Many hundreds/thousands of AFVs will be lost in battles, but it's a worthy sacrifice.

[image]local://upfiles/68404/C41F14E306DC44EFB28BC5DAABD3BD09.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 8:32:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

To be most efficient one should probably also use corps, but the only corps I use are the mech corps. I already have 1500 AFVs building up CPP in the back, and will increase that by a few thousand over the coming turns. These will attack any exposed panzers.


Here is an example of this, turn 3 of my other game. These units will be put under Rokossovosky or some other such mech general. Many hundreds/thousands of AFVs will be lost in battles, but it's a worthy sacrifice.




I believe I know where you are going with this. But I feel many are still playing WITE1 on how they are advancing and attacking. But what you are about to write should pan this out rather nicely.



tyronec -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 8:57:15 PM)

quote:

I have sent the entire Southwestern front to reserve, and they will be deployed to Moscow and Leningrad. I do not believe the South is worth defending remotely, and most Axis players will get +6 VPs regardless. I will not bother evacuating industry - it is a mechanic I have ignored so far, and will continue to ignore unless I reach the unlikely state in which Leningrad, Moscow, Tula, or other such cities that did not fall historically are threatened.

If the Soviets don't defend the South would expect Axis to achieve a sudden death win in '41, am not sure if that is what you are aiming to demonstrate ?



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:19:44 PM)

Maybe it is no early end? Or maybe he will redeploy some of the units on the next turns?



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:23:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedJohn

To be most efficient one should probably also use corps, but the only corps I use are the mech corps. I already have 1500 AFVs building up CPP in the back, and will increase that by a few thousand over the coming turns. These will attack any exposed panzers.


Here is an example of this, turn 3 of my other game. These units will be put under Rokossovosky or some other such mech general. Many hundreds/thousands of AFVs will be lost in battles, but it's a worthy sacrifice.




I believe I know where you are going with this. But I feel many are still playing WITE1 on how they are advancing and attacking. But what you are about to write should pan this out rather nicely.


I understand that Axis should not leave panzers as screening forces, but in the same time you do not want to attack with panzers. And if there is no motorization (which is an exploit IMHO) then it takes ages for an infantry to come and fight. So if you do not risk with a panzers - you will not make pockets, unless Soviet player is not smart enough to retreat. Maybe you will show some magic in your AAR, but I would like to see what would you do vs running Soviet without motorizaton.



Beethoven1 -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:31:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

If the Soviets don't defend the South would expect Axis to achieve a sudden death win in '41, am not sure if that is what you are aiming to demonstrate ?


There won't be a sudden death Axis win, there are not enough VP in the south for that. It is also not that he will literally never have any troops in the south, he just won't have any until around the time Axis gets to Kharkov/Stalino - not so much to defend those, but to make sure they don't get to Stalingrad and the like in 1941, which is what you would have to do in 1941 for any hope of a sudden death Axis win, given that Soviets will be holding Leningrad and Moscow with all the extra troops sent there.



Stamb -> RE: The Red Army Is (Not) Overpowered - A tongue in cheek aar (1/26/2022 9:47:45 PM)

From my point of view the only way to make Soviets defend upfront - change VP allocation so it will really hurt them for giving cities for free as well as make armament factoiries matter.
Stalino, Dneproterovsk, Krivoy Rog is taken 2 month ahead of schedule? Less arty/weapons for ID are being produced. Not how it is right now.

Imagine giving whole country (Ukraine) for free. How ahistorical...



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