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CynicAl -> RE: Anyone tested a Yamato vs. Iowa class slugfest? (5/18/2004 8:37:31 AM)
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ORIGINAL: Brady
SS-N-19 had a range of around 300 NM, and were launched while the Boat was submerged.
Did I dispute that? No. But that doesn't answer the question: Were they capable of 300NM and M3 in a sea skimming trajectory? My understanding is No - to go that far and that fast, they had to go very high. The only supersonic sea-skimmer I'm aware of in service is the Moskit (SS-N-22 Sunburn), which has a dramatically shorter range than the Granat (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) and as far as I know is only deployed on surface ships.
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Oscars were I beleave capable of receaving targeting information from various platforms, including satalite posationing, other subs, Bear's ect.
That doesn't solve the problem, it just pushes it off on whatever other platform you're using to scout. Remember, not only does the spotter have to get in and get a good look, it also has to survive long enough to transmit. We'll come back to this.
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The SS-N-19 had a range of 300NM (Understanding Soviet Naval Developments, (NAVSO P-3560). While it is likely that any airdetection would of been intercepted priour to it geting a fix on the fleat, it still of done so before it was killed and the other aabobe mentioned detection platforms could of given the posation and stood a fair chance of making it, certainly the satalite.
[X(]
If I've deciphered that sentence correctly, you're saying that even aerial snoopers had some chance, and it should be no great trick for subs or satellites. While it's not impossible that a big, slow Bear could sneak up on a CVBG undetected long enough to get a good fix and radio off a report, it looks like we're agreed that it's awfully unlikely. A sub has a better chance of getting inside and getting a look, but then it has to share the information. That means coming up to the shallows and transmitting - not a move calculated to extend the lifespan of the sub or her crew. Satellite recon poses different problems. For one, their orbits are very predictable, which means they can be (and are) avoided by evasive routing. Time lag is another serious problem - an hour's lag means a warship TF could be 100 miles in any direction from the datum point, so the shooters need the information in real-time (or as near to it as can be managed). Were Soviet submarines set up to receive direct feed from RORSATs?
OTH targeting is a real PITA. That's one of the reasons the anti-ship Tomahawks didn't last very long in USN service.
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... in fat given the distance to the horizon and the wave top aproach and the spead they came in at...
As I've said, it is my understanding that these missiles were not that fast on the deck; they had to choose either speed or surprise, which would make them a bit less complicated to deal with.
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When the scenario was discussed it was assumed that the CVBG would know that the missles were inbound, it was offered up that one of the towed sonar arays would of picked up the launch, even at that range, although it is likely that this event would of not been heard, given sea state at launch time convergance zones, ect, so in reality it is likely that they would be suprised.
First, you seem to be assuming that the Oscar would have good enough targeting information to launch as soon as it crossed the 300nm mark. This is far from guaranteed, and it is much more likely that the boat would have to work in a little closer before launch - maybe even a lot closer. Second, CVBGs tend to spread out over an awful lot of ocean. One effect of this is that the sub could be 200 or 300 nm from the CV, but only 100 nm or less from an escorting destoryer (or sub). Another effect is that the escorts' convergence zones actually cover different areas rather than mostly overlapping as they would if the ships were bunched up within a tight little nucleus. In reality, an event as noisy as an Oscar firing off its missiles would most likely be noticed.
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