RE: Today?? (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 12:20:35 AM)

Ok, here it is: a June release is out. The reason: more surprises are being added to the package. I can't tell you what they are, but David asked me if I was willing to wait until the details are worked out. I said yes, the gamers will understand, and I appreciate getting the chance to say yea or nay on doing this.

So, you guys will be upset with me, but the wait will be worth it. I'm sorry that I can't tell you more. I can't answer any questions about the enhancements.



Losqualo -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 12:26:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
...
I said yes, the gamers will understand...


We keep trying!

But the biggest surprise would be if it would be released. [;)]



wodin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 1:47:52 AM)

Well now I no not to keep checking here 5 times a day then.


I hope this surprise is worth the extra weight.

Quick question. Would it be possible to do a total graphic upgrade on SPWAW. Taking into account higher resolutions and 16/32 bit graphics. Could someone at home take this on or wouldit need a major code overhaul?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 1:53:22 AM)

Did I hear correct, they are writing off June, forget it, it won't be out in June?

I realise you have gotten burned enough to look like a cinder Gunnny, but is that statement bankable?

Not out in June?

Just wondering, because I have a cd to mail out, and if 8.2 won't even be out this month, then waiting a couple of days more will accomplish nothing I guess.



hellcat -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 2:22:28 AM)

not out in June? UNBELIEVEABLE [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
you guys suck



KG Erwin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 2:43:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat

not out in June? UNBELIEVEABLE [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
you guys suck


Sorry, hellcat. This was a decision I approved, so I'm prepared to deal with the consequences. The guys who know me may not understand this either, but you will love what we're working on. It's all for the love of the game, so I'm willing to deal with negative comments in the meantime.



hellcat -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 2:49:25 AM)

i don't think so, by the time 8.2 ever gets here MG with a lot of help from you and your spurious announcements will have put out any fire that was burning for 8.2

Gunny I would seriously consider your position as moderator of this forum. It's noty funny, it's not fair, it's not sensible and it's certainly not good business for MG to have behaved how they are behaving. It's like a small bunch of power mad nuts and control freaks holding the game and the community hostage.

This place used to be something good, now it stinks to high heaven. You're part of it.

I vote new mod



Kristo Vaher -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 2:57:02 AM)

Seems like my autumn release date prediction really MAY come into consideration ;)

I just hope that with all of their "wow last time lets surprise everybody", doesnt end up with suc'kin bigtime and surprising the fun out of the game. Or that this surprise would not require patching later on, cause 8.2 was supposed to be the final.

Actually this surprise thing surprises me already. I mean, for final patches, most gamedevs usually JUST fix old problems and refit some things. Not add new stuff that may require patching of its own, but there wont be one.

Just afraid that something will be scre'wed u´p. As hard as gamedevs may try and say that it wont have problems, you cant be sure of it. Seen it happen too many times before.

Best luck to MG



STEELER13 -> enough (6/13/2004 3:06:44 AM)

Yo All,
I understand the disappointment...afterall I have 8 people waiting on 8.2 cd's, including 2 who asked for 8.0 and I convinced to wait for 8.2.
and as you know that holds up some donations. However once 8.2 is released I am sure many people will still respond and donate--in fact I am counting on 8.2 to bring in quite a bit for the DAV and Children's Hospitals.
As for KG erwin, he is just a spokesman who volunteers his time---I can't see getting mad at him for something out of his control. Hellcat, you can "vote" all you want, but the fact is your anger is misdirected, period.[:(]
I am sure MG has their reasons and unlike some companies, it isn't about the $$$, so chill and enjoy 8.01 for another month. I'm disappointed, too, but also realistic--about a month after it is out, everyone here will be playing it, probably wishing for more features, and completely forgetting all the time spent waiting for 8.2. [:)]



Orzel Bialy -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:07:10 AM)

Hellcat,

I can appreciate your frustration. Believe me...I am not happy with all this either. It's getting beyond silly anymore.

However I believe you are calling for the head of the messenger and it's not necessarily Gunny who should be called on the carpet for what has happened with 8.2. In fact unless I am wrong the OoB team turned over their work to MG...so they aren't part of the issue really.

With all due respect the questions being asked now by some community members should be answered by those above Gunny if you ask me.



hellcat -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:17:00 AM)

well personally speaking I don't think this forum gets much moderation at all, questions go unanswered everywhere especially about MG bugs.

This is like Emperor's New Clothes. someone's gotta say it, I'm saying it, who's flying this plane?



KG Erwin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:27:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy


With all due respect the questions being asked now by some community members should be answered by those above Gunny if you ask me.


No, I volunteered to represent Matrix vis a vis SPWaW, but I'm free to speak my mind on all issues dealing with it. Ken, the Press Release will be done once everything is finalized.



hellcat -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:30:40 AM)

and what a great job you've done - NOT



STEELER13 -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:33:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat
well personally speaking I don't think this forum gets much moderation at all, questions go unanswered everywhere especially about MG bugs.

Yo Hellcat,
Moderator is not supposed to answer every question, and again your anger is misdirected. As Ken said...you're going after the head messenger. As for others higher up, I agree some inkling of higher up thinking would be appreciated but I think they worry if someone in MG explains the wait and says all they did on the project, someone else will add.. "wait, you didn't add the Ethiopian army OOB---please hold up everything and add the Ethiopians!" or "Well how come an AT gun can't move more than one hex? In five minutes I can completely stop firing, pick up a 75mm AT Gun and carry it 800 meters, even with someone shooting at me---heck, I'd be faster if someone shot at me. Then I can unlimber the gun, AND fire, all in the same time. Get a stopwatch, I'll prove it to you....make that AT Gun move 40 hexes and still fire in a turn!"
Comments like that discourage the OOB guys from posting and discourage others from even going for the game("oh, it doesn't have Ethiopians, it's incomplete, so says richcat, why would I want to play that").
Personally I don't understand why we need an 8.2 but then when it comes out I will use some of the goodies, just like I use the Norway 1949 OOB in creating some scenarios---neat additions from 8.0. So I can't complain about "waiting" for 8.2, although I am waiting for it to create new scenarios. I'm also waiting for CL and a few other games to be released so I can try scenario building with those games. Not the end of the world either way.
I check once a day, not 20, and now I know not to expect it until July--My bday is July 28th, which around that time last year they released the MC Desert Fox by download(after 4 months of me begging for it!), so if 8.2 is not released this year until July 28th, I guess I will be the only happy person! :-)
Oh, and HC, I saw your post on another forum---it's free and I love you, man!(er, the game is free, but I'm joking about the love! ) [:D]




KG Erwin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:37:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat

and what a great job you've done - NOT


Hellcat, if you have a beef --spell it out. I tell you like it is--I'm sorry if you can't accept it.



Orzel Bialy -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:37:46 AM)

Gunny,

I will wait for the announcement then.

HOWEVER, please note that if there is talk of any more "extras" being added that would continue this spat of delays...PLEASE JUST SAY NO! [:-]

Thank you.



hellcat -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:41:40 AM)

er steeler what I said on the other forum was sarcasm.

why 8.2, well because 8.1 isn't very good and 8.0 was even worse.

Personally I've never been one for telling MG what to put in OOB wise or other wise. Just doing it when they say or near after would be nice.

Questions about Bugs, about what's happening, about MG go unanswered, go look through the megacampaign forum.

no it's not the end of the world, I'm aware of that, it is after all a 'free' game right?



STEELER13 -> TO KG (6/13/2004 3:48:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Steeler, I noticed you were online, too. Remember the sense of anticipation when MCSE was about to be released? With 8.2, that anticipation is here again. It's exciting, like the night before Christmas, but I was one of the elves that worked to get it here. I'm sitting on edge, waiting for it to happen, and I hope you'll like it.

Yo KG,
I don't doubt I will like the 8.2. I know Resisti did a fantastic job with updating scenarios and I've read some posts by the guys working on the OOBs. But what does sadden me is that more than likely there will be no more MC's. I don't know how much money they bring in to MG, but is it possible it brings in enough to get someone to retool the engine(as both Wild Bill and Grenadier have complained about it) and make the Stalingrad Mega Campaign a reality? I think this would bring mucho money to MG and really do more to breath life into SPWAW than another OOB patch by itself would. 8.0 WITH MCSE made January a great month and I am sure MG wasn't hurting by the sales.
As for your role of mod, I regret the early warnings you gave, as they have hurt you and MG. BUT...I do understand how it happens. In the business world, similar things happen. We had a new product line to sell two years ago, and the containers were held up first by production problems and then as our one overseas factory sent the goods we went on Orange Alert, then the Dockworkers Strike, THEN the freaking Consolidated Trucking went bankrupt giving us a trucking company that lost our one container! Talk about nightmares...our customers were pissed as they missed their ads,[:@] and I was the guy calling them every week telling them that we had yet another delay.
BUT when they did get the goods, they sold like hotcakes--we are still selling the line hand over fist now, two years later. $#!+ happens.[;)]
[:'(]



STEELER13 -> to Ken (6/13/2004 3:54:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy
HOWEVER, please note that if there is talk of any more "extras" being added that would continue this spat of delays...PLEASE JUST SAY NO! [:-]
Thank you.

Yo Ken,
I agree...release the 8.2 so work on the MC engine can begin! I know you want another MC as much as I do. Is there such a thing as Polish Mafia---if so, can you give 'em a call to twist some arms?
By the way, have you read Bitter Glory? What's your opinion? Very OT so if you want to send me an email, I'd love to hear your comments. The author paints a picture to me of a Poland that was asking to be repartitioned by pissing off the Germans AND the Russians, along with the Czechs, the Hungarians, the British, and just about everyone.



KG Erwin -> RE: TO KG (6/13/2004 4:03:40 AM)

Steeler, with Wild Bill being retired, a new MC will have to start from one of his proteges. After 8.2 is released, perhaps one of the new breed will have the cojones to undertake this. A Stalingrad MC was bandied about briefly. I would love to see a new MC, if a primary designer would step forward and take it on. The time is not right, not yet. I want to focus on 8.2 and then consider new projects.



STEELER13 -> RE: TO KG (6/13/2004 4:27:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
I would love to see a new MC, if a primary designer would step forward and take it on.

Yo KG,
Not a question of a designer...question of the MC engine being redone. As you know, there are way too many limitations to that engine. I don't see anyone, not even if Wild Bill returned, designing with the current MC engine again. Just my opinion.



KG Erwin -> RE: TO KG (6/13/2004 5:12:58 AM)

With the limitations of the MC's, this is what is behind an idea for a linear campaign for the Old Breed--the 1st Marine Division at Guadalcanal, New Britain, Peleliu and Okinawa. In my solo long campaigns, I choose the USMC--why not take this a step further, with historical locations and battles. This would not be a branching campaign like MCSE--you have no choice but to slog your way into the outskirts of the Japanese homeland, with the attendant medals being honored, in many cases posthumously. This is my idea of a "Band of Brothers" for the Pacific, SPWaW style.



Orzel Bialy -> RE: to Ken (6/13/2004 6:08:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEELER13

Yo Ken...
By the way, have you read Bitter Glory? What's your opinion? Very OT so if you want to send me an email, I'd love to hear your comments. The author paints a picture to me of a Poland that was asking to be repartitioned by pissing off the Germans AND the Russians, along with the Czechs, the Hungarians, the British, and just about everyone.


Steeler,

I have read reviews of the book...it's on my wish list along with a book about the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1920. I am familiar with the background of the topic though...and we can discuss it via email or even fire up a dialogue at the DEPOT under the Military History Forum so that others can participate. [:)]



Smeghead -> RE: to Ken (6/13/2004 6:59:53 AM)

Thanks for the update KG.

I appreciate you volunteering to keep us informed. As usual the messenger is being shot for the bad news. [8|]

Taker easy.

[sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



David Heath -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 7:53:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat

i don't think so, by the time 8.2 ever gets here MG with a lot of help from you and your spurious announcements will have put out any fire that was burning for 8.2

Gunny I would seriously consider your position as moderator of this forum. It's noty funny, it's not fair, it's not sensible and it's certainly not good business for MG to have behaved how they are behaving. It's like a small bunch of power mad nuts and control freaks holding the game and the community hostage.

This place used to be something good, now it stinks to high heaven. You're part of it.

I vote new mod


We are not holding anything or one hostage. We are going over this to make sure there are NO mistakes or as few mistakes as possible. It could come out earlier (In June) we are just doing the last bit of retesting now. Look this game is free and its not like no one has the last version of SPWaW to play. So please cut us a break.... race it out and everyone bitches it sucks and was not tested....... take to long and we are holding the world hostage for a free game... yea that makes a lot of sense.

Look I understand you want the game. Heck I want to get this off my plate as well. AI changes take time to test and retest.... heck you can ask Wild Bill that.... by Tuesday I will know if the game will be done sooner or later... and we let you know....

David



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 1:30:26 PM)

I was a Moderator once, I found it even less thrilling than Gunny is finding it.

Les says just say no to Moderating :)

Les also says it could also be said it isn't like you paid 50 bucks for one of my well known hated wargames :)

Steel Panthers was a nice game when it was just called Steel Panthers. But it was a pain to run in Windows post Win 95. Matrix Games fixed that, and everything since has been gravy.
Matrix Games made the Mega Campaigns, which in my opinion is the only real reason I like Steel Panthers outside of playing scenarios. Because to date, the Battle mode and Long Campaigns suck (not Matrix Games fault though, those two modes have always sucked).

It just isn't possible for me to hate a company that gives me a game like Steel Panthers for the cost of a download. Just not possible. Even when they promise a new version, and it takes sooooooo long. It is still sooooo free.
And there is nothing stopping me from playing any version from my stash of versions either. It's not like I am waiting to play game that has been endlessly promised, and never delivered, leaving me with no expected game to play.

Some how it just doesn't sit right with me complaining about the delays in the same way I might complain about a company that has done something far worse.
If I had ordered a game, paid in advance, and then told they were holding up shipping to fix a few things, and the delays started to add up, and then it was months later, my money was gone, and still no game, yes that would be reason to be angry.

That has not happened.



VikingNo2 -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 2:39:43 PM)

How do you become a moderator ?



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:14:05 PM)

I think the normal process is they ask a person they know and ideally speaking respect :)

I didn't ask to be one during the time I was one. I was asked if I would mind being one.

On my own forum, my moderator was asked by me to fill that role. I trust the person, and that was what counted for me.

But it is a thankless job. And I think you will find no shortage of moderators willing to agree with me there :)



Orzel Bialy -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 3:35:11 PM)

David,

First of all thank you for stopping by and sharing with us.

I think the vast majority of the people who are frustrated are not so because the game isn't being rushed out...they are unhappy because there has tended to be little update or communication as to why the release dates have been missed.

With all due respect (once again) Gunny dropping in and saying "No Joy...maybe next week" (para-phrasing here) isn't really that informative (and therefore less satisfying) to a group of people who have been looking for a bit more detailed explainations. Again most people are aware he's sharing what he can...but the frustration is heaped on him because he's the first man in the LoS.

I know there is a difference of opinion over how much and just what MG should feel it needs to inform the community of...but this is not about the contents of the files. I personally will not call for changes to any of the OoBs at this point...nor will a good number of people. So keeping the community updated shouldn't be overlooked on the basis that it will open up the door to even more changes, if that is the part of the issue.

In fact if we had an update such as the one you posted for some of the previous missed target dates I think a good number of us would be far less frustrated. While it's easy to say that some of us are being unfair it should be noted that it was the initial release date statements that were missed and where no real word of why was shared that is what created a good deal of the fuss in the first place. Perhaps that is a lesson onto itself for everyone involved.

Thanks again for swinging by and sharing a bit more information with us.



KG Erwin -> RE: Today?? (6/13/2004 6:51:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

How do you become a moderator ?


Viking, when we were working on MCSE and the 8.1 update, I asked to be a temporary mod simply for the purpose of establishing a sticky thread for gamer input. Well, after it was released, I asked if David wanted me to stay on, and he said yes, so here I am.

As everyone well knows, I've gotten into hot water now & again for letting the "gamer" in me take precedence over the "moderator". As such, I try to answer questions about game play, which is fine, BUT I'm still struggling with what you "want to know" as opposed to what you "need to know" about updates & the reasons for delays.

Once 8.2 is released, I will reconsider my position. As Les well knows, sometimes it's better to just be a "gamer" and not have to worry about "mod" issues. The other thing is my background as an OOB team and MC contributor. This is how it all started, and I would love to continue doing so in future projects.



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