RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (Full Version)

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Xargun -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 6:30:03 AM)

What if (a very big if) he did take it. Would Chinese troops appear elsewhere on the map ? Or is it one of those where you lose the city and the chinese are done ?

Xargun



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 6:36:08 AM)

quote:

What if (a very big if) he did take it. Would Chinese troops appear elsewhere on the map ? Or is it one of those where you lose the city and the chinese are done ?


I assume if it is blocked, it drops them in the next base back, but I have never been able to get there so it has not come up. It takes about 6000 assault strength to blast through. I only have about 5000 available pulling from all my bases. You can't just jump straight there, you have to go through all the existing divisions that are blocking the way that will cut off your supply should you not deal with them first. Should they cut your supply because you didn't deal with them, you just lost *all* your troops. Not a good thing to loose *all* of China to the Allies.



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 7:26:04 AM)

Probably not possible with Raver pulling all his troops back, but because I've got him surrounded, I'm hoping to get to Chungking before most of his big, slow moving chinese units do and steal it. Once the japs are in and fortified, no chinese unit is ever going to dislodge them.

Might be a pipe dream, but taking china out of the war . . . well think of where I could use all those extra troops.

Also - I lost 600 paratroops at Batan. Fortunately, I still have about 19/20ths of two paratroop units left over! Sooner or later the Ledo road will get cut from the Burmese side. My recon of Akyab says it is basically empty.



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 7:52:52 AM)

Well in that case your recon really sux.[:D]



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 12:59:39 PM)

Raver has pulled back to oquickly for my liking. The chinese were never a threat early on. It is in 1944, when things are getting hairy, if his chinese divisions haven't taken losses and had to rebuild, and they've just sat there at 100% prep points, getting 0-1 experience every day for two years . . . Then suddenly the numbers and experience they could have would be a really really big game ender.



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 4:29:02 PM)

Another quiet turn - the fact that my main amy in china, my main army in the PI and my main army in Malaya are all gathered around copious supply stockpiles and massive ammounts of HQs indicates their preparations and readiness.

Already my disabled units are coming back on line as fast as my resource centres can produce supply.

My industry has reached a kind of balance - I can support the current level of operations as long as I don't waste points expanding my industry. At the current level, I've got a little surplus here and there that doesn't amount to anything. When I add the rest of the DEI to my empire I'll be able to grow - carefully of course, because I don't want to create a massive industry that will drain my empire when I really need to be able to recoup losses at the front (even now I'm dreading 1944. The last UV game I "lost" against Raver with my as the IJ - the bastard ran and
ducked and weaved and eluded every confrontation for 18 months straight and then unleashed his double whammy.

He was very unlucky - and I was very lucky that it cost him as much as it did, with the game ending in a marginal victory for him. A little more luck, or a few less "game-errors" in our UV game (like when his tranports stopped a hex short of unloading a beach headat one of my a size 7 airfield with lots of betties etc). But that is his style of play. He doesn't do things in halves our Raver. If he was "playing" he'd be sortying in and out of the SRA with his CVs, taking risks and damn the torpedoes. Unfortunately Raver is now playing to win, which means he'll be cautious and safe and clever until the time comes to apply overwhelming force (44).

I have this sinking feel that I'm going to be endlessly chasing smoke right up until, oh, mid 1944. Then I have this nightmare of endless chinese VETERANS on one side, Russians on the other, and enemy amphib operations all up the bay of Bengal, pressaging the USN killer blow straight for tokyo.



TheElf -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 6:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luskan


My industry has reached a kind of balance - I can support the current level of operations as long as I don't waste points expanding my industry. At the current level, I've got a little surplus here and there that doesn't amount to anything. When I add the rest of the DEI to my empire I'll be able to grow - carefully of course, because I don't want to create a massive industry that will drain my empire when I really need to be able to recoup losses at the front



Luskan - How do you know when you have struck that delicate balance in WitP? Is there a screen that gives you fool proof guidance, or has this just come from lots of experience paying in Beta? Could you explain this in a little more detail? What did you change on turn 1 that you could support with your resources at start? What have you changed in your industry that you are having to support with newly aquired resources, and once you begin to "grow" what WILL you be changing in the future?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luskan
(even now I'm dreading 1944. The last UV game I "lost" against Raver with my as the IJ - the bastard ran and
ducked and weaved and eluded every confrontation for 18 months straight and then unleashed his double whammy.



Hmmm....this sounds familiar. Might this be the new strategy tou were touting in our UV PBEM????[X(]



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 6:54:56 PM)

quote:

Luskan - How do you know when you have struck that delicate balance in WitP? Is there a screen that gives you fool proof guidance, or has this just come from lots of experience paying in Beta? Could you explain this in a little more detail? What did you change on turn 1 that you could support with your resources at start? What have you changed in your industry that you are having to support with newly aquired resources, and once you begin to "grow" what WILL you be changing in the future?


Best thing I can say is leave it alone for your first couple of games. You really need to sit back with a large pad and a calculator for a fairly long time before you even think about messing with it.

All choices take *time* to come into effect. Expanding your industry too much or too soon can loose the game faster then sailing your cv's into PH [;)]



Nikademus -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 7:15:53 PM)

in all honesty, i havn't even TOUCHED my Japan production yet in my game with Kid. Its definately not a feature one can just start fiddling with, at least not in PBEM. One has to know what their doing and preferably have a plan.



Mr.Frag -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 7:16:49 PM)

quote:

One has to know what their doing and preferably have a plan.


And you wonder why I have no fear of playing you [:'(]



TheElf -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/21/2004 8:21:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Luskan - How do you know when you have struck that delicate balance in WitP? Is there a screen that gives you fool proof guidance, or has this just come from lots of experience paying in Beta? Could you explain this in a little more detail? What did you change on turn 1 that you could support with your resources at start? What have you changed in your industry that you are having to support with newly aquired resources, and once you begin to "grow" what WILL you be changing in the future?


Best thing I can say is leave it alone for your first couple of games. You really need to sit back with a large pad and a calculator for a fairly long time before you even think about messing with it.

All choices take *time* to come into effect. Expanding your industry too much or too soon can loose the game faster then sailing your cv's into PH [;)]


Yeah I can only imagine. I remember 12'o'Clock High:BTR. I made MANY mistakes changing an engine factory from one type to another before realizing I had hurt the production plan that I wanted to implement rather than helping it, and that system was much simpler than what this is sounding like. Buuut, it is what I am truly looking forward to the most, soooo I don't know if I'll be able to restrain myself....



Nikademus -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 12:35:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

One has to know what their doing and preferably have a plan.


And you wonder why I have no fear of playing you [:'(]


bah....still waitin......



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 6:53:19 AM)

Well, it really is more of a feeling - other testers could explain all the numbers and bracketed numbers on the resources and troops available screen.

I go off a few uh . . . indicators around the map. They aren't foolproof.

1. The auto convoy screen lets you know how much fuel and supply is requested at every base and how much there is. If there are too many bases in the red, obviously something is wrong.

2. Level of supply in the home islands/other industry areas. As long as there is supply here, and you're gaining a nice big surplus (fuel and supply) you've got what it takes to expand. Watch carefully - my latest strategy in my campaigns, allowing all my armies to replenish losses at once - as drained supplies in the home islands dangerously low. Fortunately I have point 3.

3. Stockpiled amounts of resources and oil at industry areas. Anywhere with heavy industry needs all the oil and resources you can steal or borrow. Home islands obviously is first priority, and I have LOTS piled up for the moment. So in spite of my short term supply drain (down to about 30000 at most home island bases) I'll be making hay very shortly with lots of oil and resources getting converted. Also, pay attention to the amount stockpiled at your SRA bases. E.g. Brunei and Miri, Tarakan, Balikpapan, all the little PI bases with resources etc. etc. etc. All those resources sitting there without industry does no good - they must be transported back to an industry centre, hongkong, Saigon, home islands, wherever, to be of any use.

This is the importance of China - all those resources and oil moves by rail, as do the supplies, so little micromanagement needed here.

Also malaya, Singapore is a huge industry centre, produces a little oil (not enough for its own industry demands) and malaya produces more htan enough supply to meet those industry demands.

Only those resources and the supply they produce is being used to refit and supply armies at the moment.

Once the SRA is mine, I will redistribute my numerous armies much more effectively, which means they'll cost less and less to supply and maintain. I won't be sending 10 divisions into India. Instead I'll be sending three divisions, and a host of large brigades and regiments. The divisions will be the spearhead, but the rest will be a long line of advance that will probe for inconsistencies in Raver's defence.

4. Nates - you really don't need to be producing any more surely? So you change this. I always expand my armaments and tank building industries at the games outset. I've got plenty of manpower fo the moment, so I'll get plenty of troops, I just want them to have the equipment surplus to keep in fighting trim.



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 1:57:41 PM)

Things are vwery vwery qwite at the moment. I have now completely lost where his CVs are which is always troubling.
And even more distrubing is the recent sighting of a large battlegroup moving into the bay of bengal which had at least 3 BBs and some 5 to 6 CAs and CLs. I have NOTHING that can go up against a large force of that size and still come out the other end floating. Sure the RN has a couple of BBs and BCs but would any of YOU guys risk them at this stage of the war? nah thought not.
Lucky for me that no CVs have yet been seen in this battlegroup, which kinda limits their reach a tad.

Clark is coming under constant air raids each day with well over 120 to 150 bombers pounding away. It costs me at least 200 troops as Luskan hits the soft targets....airfield and resources. In an effort to preserve my supplies I have stopped the fort building project and removed the airbase units to Manila so also stop the supply wastage of repairing the airfield. If he tries the same trick at Singapore it will only go against him as he will be destroying the very industries that he covets. I am in truth expecting a fast finish in Singapore as it is more vital to him at the moment that the PI is.

Here is the combat report................like I said things are REALLY quite.[:D]
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/02/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 116,66

Japanese Ships
SS I-1, hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Cassin
DD Tucker
DD Reid
DD Shaw
DD Conyngham
DD Case

....................................................................................................
SIG INT REPORT FOR 01/02/42

21st AA Regiment is located at Nagasaki.
19th Engineer Regiment is located at Canton.
Radio transmissions detected at 62,33.
4th Aviation Rgt is located at Tainan.
Radio transmissions detected at Saipan.
3rd Cavarly Brigade is located at Mishan.
Radio transmissions detected at Harbin.
Hoyo Fortress is located at Osumi.
4th AA Regiment is located at Toyama.
Hoyo Fortress is located at Osumi.
15th AA Regiment is located at Nagoya.
50th Construction Battalion is located at Kyoto.
Radio transmissions detected at Saigon.
Radio transmissions detected at Palau.
3rd NLF is located at Balikpapan.
Radio transmissions detected at Pagan.
11th Heavy AA Battalion is located at Osaka/Kobe.
China Expeditionary Army is located at Canton.
8th Hvy Gun Regiment is located at Harbin.
2nd Aviation Rgt is located at Mutanchiang.



The Intel report is bigger that the bloody combat report![X(][:D]



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 2:20:20 PM)

Stop posting and send the turn back!



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 2:41:42 PM)

Ah ! I can see the IJN battlegroup making it's way north along the coast of Burma.........nodoubt on a bambardment mission.

China is coming along very well, with little losses suffered so far, and I am drawing Luskan deeper into the interior of China, and at the same time ensuring that he cannot have spare troops to be sent elsewhere in the Pacific..........China is going to be Luskan's Tar-baby.[:D]



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 3:26:17 PM)

That ijn battlegroup isn't going where you think ;)
Was unhappy you spotted them.

Still very quiet, I keep bombing places, and wiping out damaged enemy planes on the ground. Unfortunately Raver is right, although I'm advancing, I'm loosing - time for a drastic change in strategy: Operation Banana-Kiss has begun today, and although it is a long term op, it has very, very specific forces and goals assigned to it. Hopefully it will change the position in China, although it will probably take at least a month, if not a bit more. It is risky - and could easily loose me the war (especially since the distances i'm talking about campaigning over are huge.

After this turn, i'll show you a trick I learnt from one of my current opponents ;)



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 3:57:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luskan



After this turn, i'll show you a trick I learnt from one of my current opponents ;)



Tricks....that what the great yellow Bananananana boy has been reduced to.....tricks! He has liitle or no answers to my brilliant tactic and stratagy she he has to resort to tricks!



Blackhorse -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 4:31:37 PM)

quote:

3rd Cavarly Brigade is located at Mishan.


Er, that would be "cavalry".



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/22/2004 9:18:32 PM)

Are you guys planning to scrap this PBEM and restart on a release-version game, or is that pretty much what you have now?



ADavidB -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 12:55:48 AM)

quote:

And even more distrubing is the recent sighting of a large battlegroup moving into the bay of bengal which had at least 3 BBs and some 5 to 6 CAs and CLs. I have NOTHING that can go up against a large force of that size and still come out the other end floating. Sure the RN has a couple of BBs and BCs but would any of YOU guys risk them at this stage of the war? nah thought not.


You bet I would! You'll probably have to send the silly things back anyway. So why not go after the surface TF? It's a long way back to Tokyo for repairs, your subs could clog up some straits looking for wounded, and the ships wouldn't be around for a while to interfere in other areas. You are going to get tons of ships in the future - expend what you have now if you can hamper the Japanese advance.

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 8:37:55 AM)

I mid ocean intercepted a couple of MSWs in the bay of bengal and sunk them this turn. Not really too impressive since I caught them with 2 bbs and attendant cas and cls and escorts. I was actually hoping I'd catch the damaged POW and Repulse that are limping westward towards Trincomalee (I've kept my trick up my sleeve for now - I'm saving it for when it will get me more).

I ahven't been able to run the RN to earth yet - but I will soon enough. Unfortunately all my CVs and such are all tasked with other missions at the moment and couldn' be spared.

I also to kweilin - no big deal as there were no resources to be had, and Raver didn't give a stuff if I took it or not (only had 5000 troops there - he probably forgot about them). No - Raver has a big army sitting behind a big nasty fort at Wuchow, which keeps a LOT of my troops sitting at Canton shadowing them - but not nearly strong enough to try and overcome the fort size. If they come out in the open, then I'm in like flynn, but as things are, Raver has forced a stalemate there in the south (not really a stalemate since that army is going to get bigger and stronger and more experienced and sooner or later I'm going to have to try and root them out).

I plan to start bombing the place regularly to try and put a bit of downward pressure on Wuchow, but as Raver knows too well, I can't exactly yank 3 divisions out of my northern army to have a go at Wuchow because I'd be asking for trouble.



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 8:49:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

And even more distrubing is the recent sighting of a large battlegroup moving into the bay of bengal which had at least 3 BBs and some 5 to 6 CAs and CLs. I have NOTHING that can go up against a large force of that size and still come out the other end floating. Sure the RN has a couple of BBs and BCs but would any of YOU guys risk them at this stage of the war? nah thought not.


You bet I would! You'll probably have to send the silly things back anyway. So why not go after the surface TF? It's a long way back to Tokyo for repairs, your subs could clog up some straits looking for wounded, and the ships wouldn't be around for a while to interfere in other areas. You are going to get tons of ships in the future - expend what you have now if you can hamper the Japanese advance.

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi


POW and Repulse are both carring damage, and they are two of three of my big ships. Once again it looks like Luskan is going to run wild in the Bay of Bengal and there is little that I can do about it. I guess that I am lucky that Luskan didn't task of few CVEs as well (I am really surprised that he didn't to tell you the truth).



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 8:57:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Are you guys planning to scrap this PBEM and restart on a release-version game, or is that pretty much what you have now?


I am not sure about Luskan, but I would like to keep this going, as it puts us a few months ahead of the general public and is a good "Crystal Ball" for others.

I have now played this game either with others or against the AI some 50 times and am keen to get past the point where I am always taking the lumps.......that is if Luskan has the balls to continue.[:'(]



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 1:36:59 PM)

Well as Luskan has already posted he did a mid-ocean intercept and sank two RAN MSWs, but what is worse is that I have totally lost where the evil battle group has gone! The Bay of Bengal is a very big body of water and I have very few long range search aircraft. One minute he is smacking up a couple of MSWs and the next "PooF" they have gone and I can't see them anywhere. It is more worrying because I have a small TF of CLAA, CAs and DDs steaming in the area, none of which have seaplanes. I am effectivly blind.

Ah Ha! Just spotted a CV TF with what looks like at least two fleet carriers just to the south east of Singapore and heading west. They can only be heading for the Bay of Bengal. Looks like the Brits are in for some hard rain.



Luskan -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 2:32:31 PM)

I love the way Raver assumes. It is like asking me to do something different.

Very quiet again this turn.

I agree with Raver - is nice to be ahead of the public (who is going to read our AARs if they're all playing their own games at the same stage????!).

This is pretty much a release version - every now and then we update the .exe but only minor changes all told.

With the current operations on hold, I'm glad I'm about to make a big dent in some of Raver's northern troops at Lanchow. Hopefully I'll trap them up there and slaughter them en masse.

Also, bombing of singapore and manila and batan (soon to be renamed batanana) and Clark continues. My less brilliant pilots (sonias, lilies, sallies etc) are gaining valuable target practise at the hapless allied troops - Raver has AA at singapore, but elsewhere his aa batteries have long since being effective. My bombers in malaya and pi will continue to blast the supply base out from under Raver untli his troops are well and truly starved to oblivion before I actually try and fight them.

As for China, well as soon as the PI and malaya falls, I'll be moving some serious air power to burma to start smacking Raver's troops around there. I have the AVG warhawks (or are they kitty hawks) at about 60 strong, but since the allies dont have 60 avaition support units at the one place anywhere in burma they're a bit handicapped for a while. Besides, my Banana-Hawks will tear them to shreds without too much trouble.

As for my battle groups, I have a specific plan and timetable for all those units and the cvs on the map - and I'm gonig to stick to it if I possibly can. So I had to break off pursiut of those damaged RN ships. Sooner or later winnie is going to demand a british BB and some scort back, and Raver will be forced to make a choice - send back the damaged POW (she's not that badly damaged, judging from her speed) or the slower, older, and certainly less useful (short range) Revenge (so named because when she gets sunk the poms will want revenge). That old and slow makes her too slow for effective bombardment (she'd be in easy betty range for about 3 turns before she actually got to bombard the airfield etc.). So if that happens Raver is most likely to send Revenge back and keep POW holed up until she's fixed (might take a while, not as many repair points on that side of the map).



Raverdave -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 3:55:37 PM)

Well I have spotted that bloody battlegroup again, but I am not sure what they are up to reports show that they are heading east, to bombard maybe?. Equally puzzeling is a lone CA spotted south of the main body heading south..........a damaged ship maybe?

Luskan has now moved some 23 LCUs into Lunchow, looks like this will be the first really bad drubbing that I have faced on the main land.[:(]

[image]local://upfiles/5619/Pn364994794.jpg[/image]



Speedysteve -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 4:35:15 PM)

Does seem that ASW is a tad too-effective at the mo. Is this going to be toned down before release?



Jaypea -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 4:44:27 PM)

I am really interested to see what Luskan is doing. I wonder if he has an amphibious group with him and is planning a coastal landing in India? or is just trying to lure out the RN for a fight?

very interesting! Thanks for the AAR guys,

JP



Xargun -> RE: Aussie Affair, Beta's Twilight (6/23/2004 5:39:09 PM)

I for one will continue reading your AAR even while busy with my own games - I find it entertaining and if you look hard enough there is some useful information - both of what to do and what not.

Xargun



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