Pilots on Strike (Full Version)

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Thayne -> Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 6:35:37 AM)

What, pray tell, may cause a bunch of pilots to go on strike.

None of the air units in Southeast Asia have flown a mission in over a week. I ask nicely. I threaten to court-martial people. I try bribes. None of them will fly. The Japanese have even bombed airfield with figter planes on them. The pilots simply wave at the Japanese airplanes and go back to their drinking and their card games.

I am growing concerned of what might happen if this behavior was allowed to continue.

Thayne



von Murrin -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 6:38:22 AM)

They go on strike when you give them a mission.

Seriously, check your range settings. They may be like 1-2 hexes or something.



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 6:45:47 AM)

I'm afraid that is not it. I have Hudsons set with a range of 10 and P-40s set with a range of 5.

They were doing just great for the first two weeks of the war. I mean . . . they couldn't hit anything, but at least they were firing projectiles in the general direction of enemy airplanes and dropping bombs in the rough proximity of enemy airbases and ports. Then, I suspected that I had not seen any activity in a couple of days. I asked some underlings to keep an eye out and, sure enough, no wheel has left the ground now for 7 days.

This is insubordination, I tell you. I do not approve of this kind of behavior. What if the pilots in other regions find out about this?



Platoonist -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 7:20:27 AM)

What is their morale/fatigue situation? Mebbe those first few weeks of the war tuckered them out. [:D]



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 8:01:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

What is their morale/fatigue situation? Mebbe those first few weeks of the war tuckered them out. [:D]



Well, I have a squadron of Blenheims with a morale of 90 and a fatigue of 0 with orders to attack enemy ground units 5 hexes away who aren't doing much of anything right now, on an airfield that requires 8 aircraft supply but provides 20.

Thayne

(Oh, and make that 8 days, now, with nary the lifting of a finger among them -- even though one enemy attack targeted a port in a hex with an airfield where 11 buffalos are parked on the runway, fueled and armed and ready for combat, with primary orders to provide bomber escort -- not that there are any bombers going anywhere to escort -- with a CAP percentage of 50, a morale of 54, and a fatigue of 3.)



52nd Lowland -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 8:08:03 AM)

Thats nearly as bad as those flippin B26 Marauders in Uncommon Valor...they must have thought it was a sleeping duty [:D]



kaleun -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 8:08:32 AM)

The pilots need to be shot!



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 8:11:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

The pilots need to be shot!



If only I could find somebody in the area willing to do some shooting. . . .

Thayne



Arnir -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 9:33:21 AM)

Probably not an issue at all, but...

Has anything in the base changed? Lack of supplies? Aviation support still there?

Grasping at straws.



ZOOMIE1980 -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 9:39:44 AM)

Give it to Frag....he eat's ANYTHING!!!

Seems a bit disturbing to me. Haven't seen this yet in my stuff...



Onime No Kyo -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 12:47:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 52nd Lowland

Thats nearly as bad as those flippin B26 Marauders in Uncommon Valor...they must have thought it was a sleeping duty [:D]


Marauders eh? I had an interesting one in UV where a squadron of Libs wouldnt fly. The second I transferred in a squadron of P-40s, off they went next turn. I thought it was something coded into the game that allows bomber crews to give HQ the finger without fear of court-marshal (Catch-22-esque, n'est pas?).



2Stepper -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 1:51:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Marauders eh? I had an interesting one in UV where a squadron of Libs wouldnt fly. The second I transferred in a squadron of P-40s, off they went next turn. I thought it was something coded into the game that allows bomber crews to give HQ the finger without fear of court-marshal (Catch-22-esque, n'est pas?).


Might be worth the effort. Take a unit of them and transfer them to a nearby base. Then next turn (assuming they continue to sit on their thumbs), transfer them back. See what happens... I agree though, this IS an odd one. [&:]



Montbrun -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 1:56:40 PM)

...check your escort groups - sometimes bombers won't fly without escort...



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 2:34:09 PM)

I regret to report that, with all of this grasping at straws going on, the only thing that we have so far is a fist full of straws.

I have bombers at airbases with fighter squadrons set to escort.

I have moved squadrons to new bases. (Since I could not get them to fly, I thought a change of scenery might work. It didn't. They settled down in their new quarters and picked up their card games where they left off.)

In these 8 days, I have received two squadrons of reinforcements -- who joined the squadrons already in existence in participating in the no-fly rule.

The problem affects every squadron in Burma and India -- not just one base. No units will fight -- even fighter squadrons set to CAP whose bases are under attack. The pilots just drag their lawn chairs up on the hill and watch the Japanese make their attack runs -- then hold up score cards to tell the Jap pilot what they thought of his form and artistic ability.

I have troops in Rangoon who are cut off and fighting for their lives, and not a single pilot is willing to step up and help them out. I have a worry that if somebody doesn't help those Rangoonians out soon, they're going to defect and join the Japanese (not that I blame them).

Thayne



barbarrossa -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 2:48:03 PM)

Have you tried giving your bombers specific "ground" or "airfield" targets? Are these targets in range?

The airfields you are flying from...are they big enough to support your a/c? enough aviation support? supply situation good enough for ops?

Just a checklist, all these have been mentioned before in the thread. At least they're transferring![:D]

I haven't run into anything like this.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 2:51:08 PM)

Is this possibly something to do with Computer Control having been switched on at one time for the zone?

Or more obviously the planes are not at size 1 airfields?

If it is a genuine bug I believe you need to submit a save file to support@matrixgames.com for them to have a look at it. Together with a description of how to reproduce.



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 2:55:15 PM)

Airfield sizes range from 1 up to 5 (with the bulk of the squadrons at size 3 airfields).

I have 7 bases with air units stationed there. Of these, 4 have more than enough aviation support points to handle the planes (3 of them are a bit light). 6 of them have enough general support points to handle the units stationed there (1 is a bit light). 7 out of 7 have more than 3 times the amount of supply available than is required. The HQ is on a hex with 73,365 supply points.



barbarrossa -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 2:57:54 PM)

I got this idea from another thread talking about the same thing happening....perhaps those yutzes won't fly because the feel they need escorting fighters, if the the range to target is to great for the fighters to escort to the target....that might be it.........just another straw to pluck.[8|]

But then again, that doesn't explain the lack of CAP......



Captain Cruft -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:04:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

Airfield sizes range from 1 up to 5 (with the bulk of the squadrons at size 3 airfields).


OK. Well I can't explain the lack of CAP but it's possible that this may be the reason behind some offensive missions not being flown.

The rules as I understand them from the manual (apologies if this is already known):

1. Offensive missions require airfield size > 1
2. Level bombers require airfield size >= 4 for full bombload (B-17/B-24/B-29 require size 5-6-7 respectively)
3. Level bombers at airfield size 2 or 3 will only carry extended range bombload.
4. Dive/torpedo/fighter bombers only need size >= 2.

Having said all this it does sound rather like a bug ...

P.S. Aviation support is ONLY relevant with respect to repairing damaged planes, nothing else. If you're not getting heavy losses you can run bases at considerably less than the stated requirement.



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:24:29 PM)

Recall, I reported that units were, once upon a time, flying offensive missions from those very same airfields just fine for the first two weeks of the war.

Now, I have moved all squadrons but 1 to airfields greater than size 1.

Akyab is the place where the fighters will not even fly CAP to defend their own base, and it is level 3 airfield.



foliveti -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:26:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

[
P.S. Aviation support is ONLY relevant with respect to repairing damaged planes, nothing else. If you're not getting heavy losses you can run bases at considerably less than the stated requirement.


I thought Aviation support also affected the number of missions which could be flown from a base?



Captain Cruft -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:30:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: foliveti
I thought Aviation support also affected the number of missions which could be flown from a base?


You may be right, what does the manual say?

Thayne, it seems highly likely to be a bug. You need to submit a save file to support@matrixgames.com with explanation.



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:32:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

Have you tried giving your bombers specific "ground" or "airfield" targets? Are these targets in range?

The airfields you are flying from...are they big enough to support your a/c? enough aviation support? supply situation good enough for ops?

Just a checklist, all these have been mentioned before in the thread. At least they're transferring![:D]

I haven't run into anything like this.



Yes, I have given them specific targets. I have also varied the targets on the off chance that bombers are not supposed to be able to attack ground units. I have set them to attack the same targets that they were successfully attacking in the first 2 weeks of the war. They ignore all of these requests.

I have set some of them to local commander's discretion. If I can't find something they want to attack -- maybe they can find something themselves.

No good.



Grouchy -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 3:51:53 PM)

Groups of my decide to go on strike after attacking a ground target 1x. If I switch them to an AF attack they do as ordered. Switch them back to ground attacks and I get the finger again [:(] .



AmiralLaurent -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 6:16:54 PM)

Not got WITP yet, but this reminds me of some problems I had in UV (but not for so long).

Try flying recon or naval search, only to see if your airmen report something. Or even supply or troop transport. Then you will see if the problem is that they won't do any flying at all, or they refuse to fight Japan.

To reply to another post, to launch ground air attacks requires regular recon flights or the bombers refuse to fly.



IceCreamSolider -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/14/2004 8:20:37 PM)

Severe weather will ground them too - even if they have orders.

ICS



Drongo -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/15/2004 6:56:47 AM)

Thayne,

Where are you currently at with this problem?



CommC -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/15/2004 7:19:23 AM)

I'm having a similar problem with CAP not flying from a Air Combat TF. They haven't flown for several days (actually they have never flown since the TF was created). Enemy bombers keep flying over dropping bombs on the carriers with no opposition while the fighters stay on the deck. All the settings I can check, morale, pilots, supply, fuel, settings, etc seem ok.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they aren't flying due to bad weather. I thought that in UV, if an air group didn't fly due to bad weather, you got a message to that effect. I haven't seen any weather messages like that in WITP. Has anyone else? Should I expect such a message?

If it's weather, I'ld like to know how the enemy planes can fly and bomb accurately in the bad weather, but my planes won't take off.



Thayne -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/15/2004 7:36:10 AM)

Funny you should ask.

I just finished another turn, trying the suggestion that I fly some recon missions to see what happens there.

Two pilots (1 Blenheim and 1 Hudson) actually took off and flew these missions.

I have no idea what this means -- other than the fact that it blows my theory that they are completely without any ounce of courage. I still think it may be difficult to fight a war without somebody willing to actually shoot something other than pictures.

Testing continues.



Drongo -> RE: Pilots on Strike (7/15/2004 8:16:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

I'm having a similar problem with CAP not flying from a Air Combat TF. They haven't flown for several days (actually they have never flown since the TF was created). Enemy bombers keep flying over dropping bombs on the carriers with no opposition while the fighters stay on the deck. All the settings I can check, morale, pilots, supply, fuel, settings, etc seem ok.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they aren't flying due to bad weather. I thought that in UV, if an air group didn't fly due to bad weather, you got a message to that effect. I haven't seen any weather messages like that in WITP. Has anyone else? Should I expect such a message?

If it's weather, I'ld like to know how the enemy planes can fly and bomb accurately in the bad weather, but my planes won't take off.


Since the TF being attacked by enemy a/c is also where your CAP is based, weather should have nothing to do with it.

Question - are your CV a/c capacities being exceeded by more than 10% (each)?



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