RE: The Coming Battle (Full Version)

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PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/7/2006 11:55:04 PM)

Thanx for the advice guys! [8D]
This is a very important turn, and I think I will sleep on it.
Need to go to bed early tonight, war kept me up late last night [;)]

I have never been lucky against Andy, so somehow I don't feel that a 'shot in the dark' will
bring much else than potential disaster. Still, weather forecast says 'Rainy' for tomorrow.

At Jolo we got 200 aviation support on a size 4 airfield. I can put 250 of our best fighters there
on LRCAP 100%. There are dozens of transports at Zamboanga that can make target selection
difficult for Andy. Nearby bases should also be able to provide LRCAP.

So even if we miss our targets Andy will have to sacrifice his last pilot reserves to hit our warships.
And 10 battleships are much harder nuts than flattops [:)]

When Andy moves on to Tarakan - or Samarinda - he will have to make himself vulnerable. Still, letting
him ashore would be dangerous. I can't attack his fleet before his CAP has been weakened. No way I'm
sacrificing 1000 ac...then there will be no one left to land the final blow.




Naskra -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 12:11:39 AM)

I think a retreat is in order.  That's just a big torpedo magnet you've got in the Sulu Sea. It will meet the same fate as KB if you venture any closer to the enemy.  You can still get one or more good strikes with it if you await a more favorable situation. This war may last another 2 1/2 years, and some day he will come after the Home Islands where you will  have plenty of covering bases and he has few. Better opportunites will arise.  You might even try circling around Borneo to see if you can catch him in a more exposed position in the Java Sea.
Keep the threat in being.




Nikademus -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 12:13:23 AM)

Bah.....thats what the Japanese always said....."save the fleet till a better day" and look what happened to them.

BANZAI!!!! FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!! DEATH TO YANKEE DOODLE and DANDY!

[:D]




pauk -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 12:42:49 AM)

i'm actually start to think that all advisers here just want to get intel what would happend and use that for their games![:'(][:D]

Seriously, i see Nik's logic (and i afraid that i behaviour like Japanese in the real war)... the question is what is use of combined fleet if you don't have fuel to them (if SRA falls PZB will run out of the resources, fuel and supply and will depend only on what he stockpiled. Once when Andy capture Borneo and eventually Philippines he can bomb to the stone age HI and destroy his supply there)...





saj42 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 2:45:46 PM)

IRL the Japs gambled and lost off Leyte, but had little/no LBA. With your massive LBA advantage are you going to gamble?
What is the point of saving the fleet for a fight closer to the Home Islands where you will have less room for maneuver.




aztez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 3:01:40 PM)

I think Tallyho has a good point here. You got LBA support from many bases and Andy's fleet cannot not be in excellent shape after the engagement with KB. Those odds are in your favour and IF you pull this off you have thrown the allied side in deep trouble.

Andy would need to organize his fleet assets again for any further advances towards Philippines.

Oh, the downside naturally is that you wohn't suprise him and the result would be another Leyte Gulf as in WW2.




Przemcio231 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 3:28:25 PM)

I would say NIPPON BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go for a kill[:D][:D][:D][:D]




WhoCares -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 4:42:55 PM)

Andy has a problem with his carrier fighters - too many tasks (though they are supported by LBA):
  1. CAP for the carriers
  2. CAP for the invasion TFs
  3. Escort for outgoing strikes

When you can trigger all of them, they might fail in one/some. If you manage to setup dedicated strikes (by limiting strike ranges) against his TFs and sent in heavily LRCAPed (prey that the CAP is not shrouded in clouds)  bait TF(s) the first day you might score some (small?) victories...
Depending on the results he might be forced to retreat or has a seriously reduced strike potential - probably enough to move your main force in against his invasion on day two.

A lot of conditionals, i know, but who cares [:'(]
(bad wheather standing down your planes or covering his Invasion TFs, your strikes most likely attacking the BB TFs)

This might also be the last day where he is close enough to so many of your bases - I don't think he wants to travel back through the Celebes Sea after the last experiences...


Regarding his destination - Banjamarsin seems too far away to significantly support a further trust through the Philippines. If he lands there, he might push further up through the Java Sea instead; or depending on his strength marches along the road to Tarakan, which would take several weeks of land warfare and LBA bombardments. But that he could also achieve from any other of the three bases but at the same time putting a higher pressure on the PIs.




LittleJoe -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 5:09:17 PM)

This is going to end in tears..

Andy sunk your 'protected' carriers in the Sulu sea, and i would bet on him doing the same here, the LBA isnt significant enoug, to support Fleet action against the Enemy carriers.

I would suggest you save them for a battle where you can safetly retreat the Surfaces forces to a safe out of range Port.

For example, he is going to have to go after the Home Islands (if he ever gets there), say for example attacking Okinawa from the P.I, your surfaces forces docked at Shanghai could sally forward, do a night raid, then return to say..Pusan or Port Arthur, Andy will most probably never risk sending his Carriers imbeteewn China and Korea, as quite frankly is gonna be a channel of death, with Kamikaizes coming in from several bases.

As Andy proved earlier, the Philipines do not offer the same 'safe' fall back point. I would advise saving them for a decisive battle closer to the Home Islands, as hes gonna have to take them if he wants an chance of winning this game on points. You could seriously cripple him there.

But in the end its your decision..




Fishbed -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 6:03:30 PM)

About something else PzB (well I wouldn't risk my luck on any of the ideas posted previousely, all of them raise good points, but I can't manage to find one solution obviousely better than the others), maybe you should agree with Andy to edit the save for some hundred hellcats and pilots in the pool. You would gain much I think to see them on the carriers instead of Corsair-fitted VMFs... He says he starts to find 44 interesting and challenging - me thinks he is somewhat wrong on this point if Corsairs start to fly all over the place!




ChezDaJez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 7:41:50 PM)

Editing a save in this situation is gamey IMO. The battles ended the way they ended. Andy chose to put all of his available aircraft assests into the fight and suffered substantial air losses. Editing the save would be a reward.

Andy reached too far going after Zamboanga. He tried advancing without suppressing PzBs airfields first with his LBA, a major mistake. He committed his carriers to a fight in enclosed waters where PzB has plenty of supporting airfields. No, Andy got greedy and he is paying for it. He should stand down his Hellcats and lick his wounds the same as the rest of would have to do. It is only the USN pilot and Hellcat pools that have been depleted. He will have the aircraft replaced within a couple of months. The more serious issue for his is USN pilots.

While I believe this highlights a fault in the replacment routines, the fact is the real issue here is that Andy is now having to train his USN pilots. Welcome to the club, Andy! Now he will know what the Japanese players know right from the start... you have to be careful with your pilot pools.

Don't get me wrong. Andy has played a very good game to date but he got careless. He thought he had a never ending supply of pilots and aircraft and he committed them to a battle that he couldn't sustain. He knew invading the PI would force PzB to respond with all of his resources. He wasn't fully prepared and went an island too far.

CHez




PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 8:25:17 PM)

I have read all your comments, appreciate them immensly [&o]
After thinking over the issue for 24 hours, I have decided.
See situation map for details.

I have turned of more merchant shipyards and halted construction of more transports.
Replenishment convoys have been formed to support the fleet and strong air units have
been moved forward to oppose the enemy in the coming battle.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/03/44

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Samarinda , at 31,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 17

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
P-47D Thunderbolt x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Morotai , at 43,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zeke x 30

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 12
F-5C Lightning x 2
B-24J Liberator x 29

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zeke: 6 destroyed, 8 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged

Runway hits 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're slowly killing the 'lost' enemy TF!

Day Air attack on TF at 53,61

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 14
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 17
Ki-21 Sally x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Ewa, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
AK Edward Luckenbach, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Allied ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Waigeu Island at 41,73

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 3
Ki-21 Sally x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
AK Empire Rainbow, Torpedo hits 1, Kamikaze hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,63

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Steel Mariner, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Florence Luckenbach, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
121 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enemy convoy south of Truk! Andy is forced to take long detours around our strongholds!

Day Air attack on TF at 66,82

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
AV St. George, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
TK Spencer Kellogg, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enemy towards Borneo!

I decided not to strike because Andy can simply 'side step' to avoid our fleet.
Several battleships have a max speed of 23-24 knots, taking them no more than 4
hexes each phase. This means that it would be very difficult - if not impossible -
to concentrate our Fleet against the enemy.

I did however send a heavy cruiser squadron to the hex in front of the western most
enemy TF. With the torpedo cruisers Oi and Kitakami it should be able to disrupt the
enemy if contact is achived.

My main goal is to move a powerful naval squadron to Balikpapan. From Java it can snipe
at enemy ships and stragglers while the Combined Fleet stages for the decisive battle
as soon as the enemy starts unloading his troops.

For each day that passes more Kamikaze units become available, and I think time is on
our side. So no 'crazy Ivan' moves! We take control and force the enemy into a corner
he can't escape from before we move in for the kill [:D]

We also got a carrier TF that can support the Surface Fleet. Andys carrier will target
the happless flat tops before they attack the latter. I will not dissappoint you this
time, a decisive victory will soon be won [;)]

[image]local://upfiles/1466/4996F68D14884058B2765109FD2B2C82.jpg[/image]




Fishbed -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 8:25:21 PM)

The way I see it (and nowhere here can charge me with being a traitor to the Rising Sun I think [:D]) is that Andy will never stop. He is late on schedule already, and what he can't do with hellcats, he'll do it with Corsairs as he agreed with PzB. While Im trusting the talent of our Grand Amiral, the game is broken when it comes to F4U's performance in the air, as much as it is when it comes to Hellcat replacement et production. Airframes are really an issue here, as much as training, but giving him some F6F would ease the pain for a start, I think, for both of them, and keep the game interesting instead of turning it into a big hide-and-seek M.Corsair game...




Fishbed -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 8:29:55 PM)

Well I suppose that you'll have plenty occasions to strike him at bay while he'll be landing... thanks to the islands there will be not that many hex to be covered by he strike force :)




ChezDaJez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 9:34:19 PM)

quote:

Airframes are really an issue here, as much as training, but giving him some F6F would ease the pain for a start, I think, for both of them, and keep the game interesting instead of turning it into a big hide-and-seek M.Corsair game...


While I agree that the Corsair is omnipotent, I do not agree that this is an airframe issue. Andy had a respectable pool of Hellcats 2 months ago. Only after the Marianas affair did his pool suffer. He then proceeded on another ambitious operation that further depleted his pool. IMO, his is a case of mismanagement. He has played a very good game to date but his rigid adherence to a timetable is causing him to take chances and now he is paying for it.

Consider this. The Zamboanga operation was a strategic defeat for Andy and it didn't matter how many Hellcats or pilots he had in his pools. He lost thousands of troops and dozens of aircraft because he didn't wait to build up airfields to support this operation. This was his own "Operation Marketgarden."

Andy had enough reserve to replace most of his losses but now his pools are now empty. That only affects future operations. He simply must delay significant operations until he builds up his reserves, just like any sensible commander would do IRL. "Giving" him additional planes and pilots only rewards poor management.

Sorry to hijack this thread, PzB.

Chez




Fishbed -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 9:39:42 PM)

quote:

Consider this. The Zamboanga operation was a strategic defeat for Andy and it didn't matter how many Hellcats or pilots he had in his pools. He lost thousands of troops and dozens of aircraft because he didn't wait to build up airfields to support this operation. This was his own "Operation Marketgarden."

Andy had enough reserve to replace most of his losses but now his pools are now empty. That only affects future operations. He simply must delay significant operations until he builds up his reserves, just like any sensible commander would do IRL. "Giving" him additional planes and pilots only rewards poor management.


Yes you're right - particularly about the way Andy leads his offensive. This will to keep pace with a certain idea of the war is killing him. No serious preparation work was led on the Marianas (while he had B-29 in range...), and Zamboroga operation is complete heresy both historically and logically, not to talk about being a little gamey... He just wanted "to go faster than music" I'd say if such a french expression existed in english too ;) and now he's punished.




PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 10:07:34 PM)

In a way you're right Chez... It's easy to consider the US arsenal as an eternal pool of pilots and hardware.
Still, public opinion would go crazy by extreme losses. The limitation on ac and pilots  means that Allied players have
to go more 'gentle' - not with the enemy ' but with their own  men.

This is the mail I sent and received from Andy today:

"Arguably it was accelerated by 42 as my predescessors hung on to Tarawa, PM
and Lunga.

Anyway I am unhappy with the Hellcat position (naval pilots I view as my own
fault) but I will overcome.

This ones going to take a while I have several hard decisions to make

-----Original Message-----
From: John Leknes
Sent: 08 August 2006 18:00
To: ANDREW MCPHIE
Subject: Re: turn

Should be a most interesting turn :-)

One of the reasons you take heavy losses is that you're forcing a decision
within the historical time table. This was upset at least 1 year by the
events in 42!"

As you can see I have 'nudged' Andy into believing that I will attack him viciously today.
I also provided the same conclusion as Fishbed. Andy is very concerned about not slipping behind
the time line set by WWII. But this is a different war, and he's pushing too hard - and this causes
him huge casualties.

I don't think Andy should be rewarded with Corsairs for using up all his Hellcats [:-]
Use Wildcats I say [:D] Still, he got a point, but we all have to make do with what we got.
Still, he's a resourceful dude, and he will not make it easy for us.





anarchyintheuk -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 11:50:08 PM)

Random thoughts:

Something tells me that if the usn ran out of hellcats a staff officer would have had one of those light-bulb-over-the-head moments and said "hey, why don't we use corsairs in their place"?

Historically, the usn probably had more ops deaths/month than there are replacements/month in the game.

I don't see anything wrong w/ Andy's Z operation, historically or gamewise. It's somewhat the equivalent of the admiralty isl. campaign. Gamewise he was taking advantage of a momentary opening, only risked a few lcus and was trying put his lba in a position to where they could take losses in place of his carrier pilot pool. The reward was worth the risk at that point. Additionally, it wasn't a sure thing that PzB would react or react as he did. Andy's mistake IMO, if any, was not cutting his losses when PzB went all out to crush the base.

Andy may have to wait for a build up of replacement pilots for his carriers, but he'll never have to worry about the IJN carriers adding their weight to a response to future allied offensives with his carriers. In any event, while those losses may delay anything happening in CENTPAC, it sure won't stop any offensives in the SRA/SWPAC.

PzB, sorry about hijacking the thread.




aztez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/8/2006 11:54:14 PM)

Is the next turn done already??? [:D] *It is getting kind of late back here*




PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 12:10:20 AM)

[:D] Andy sent me a mail saying that he needs time for prepare the next turn!
So not until tomorrow [;)] Need my beauty sleep...was a wreck at work today.

Open for all opinions and comments here Anarchy!
Andy did truly take advantage of an opportunity - but it was a base too far.
So I guess it can be argued that he should have established a safer network of bases before 'jumping' again.




aztez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 12:15:47 AM)

Damn. So I have been staying up for nothing [:D][:D][:D]




PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 1:07:27 AM)

Well, not quite...I ran the combat phase [:D]

Andy moved some ships out of my range - but the cruier squadron connected!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/04/44
Sub/ASW Attacks

One of my mine laying boats ran into trouble....but the Strait is now covered with mines!
I hope it can delay and split up the enemys advance.

ASW attack at 36,63

Japanese Ships
SS I-53, hits 9

Allied Ships
DD Izard
DD Hutchins
DD Harrison
DD Hall
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 35,63

Japanese Ships
SS I-53, hits 17, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-153
LST LST-214
LST LST-73
LSD Carter Hall
AK Alchiba
AK Lesuth
AK Crux
AP Orungal
MSW Kapunda
MSW Gympie
MSW Gladstone
MSW Geelong
MSW Cootamundra
MSW Ararat
MSW Pirie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub laid mines with 'spunk' [8D]

TF 1080 encounters mine field at 25917968,41

Allied Ships
DD Mahan
DD Henley
DD Schroeder
DD John Rodgers
DD Remey
DD Abner Read
DD William Porter
DD Norman, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

Nishimura achieves surprise! The initial attack is inefficient though.
In a prolonged battle ranging from 7-2-7k yards our light units are battered
but succeeds in hitting the enemy with torpedoes, blowing up one destroyer, heavily
damaging another as well as a heavy cruiser and a battleship.

In all we loose 5 destroyers and a light cruiser - but I'm quite pleased. Both our
crack heavy cruisers got away and Andy now got 2 damaged capital ships to protect.

Night Time Surface Combat at 35,62

Japanese Ships
CA Maya, Shell hits 4
CA Chokai
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 9, on fire
CL Oi, Shell hits 29, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
DD Kiyoshimo
DD Hayashimo, Shell hits 20, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
DD Akishimo, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
DD Natsushio, Shell hits 2
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 4, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire [:)]
BB California, Shell hits 8
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire [:)]
CL Australia, Shell hits 2
CA Astoria, Shell hits 5
DD Miller, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nicholas
DD Owen
DD Philip, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk *magazine explodes*
DD Picking, Shell hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had not intended for these new 'light' destroyers to engage the enemy..but they did
with unfortunate results!

Night Time Surface Combat at 35,62

Japanese Ships
DD Matsu, Shell hits 42, and is sunk
DD Momo
DD Take, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ume, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 1, on fire
BB California, Shell hits 3
CA Salt Lake City, on fire
CL Australia
CA Astoria, Shell hits 1
DD Miller, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nicholas
DD Owen
DD Picking
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

As suspected..Samarinda is attracting a lot of attention!

Day Air attack on Samarinda , at 31,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 6

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 7
P-47D Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Samarinda , at 31,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 4

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 7
Mosquito PR.IX x 6
P-38J Lightning x 3
PB4Y Liberator x 11
B-29 Superfortress x 92

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
50 casualties reported

Airbase hits 24
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 105
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The heavily damaged cruisr 'Oi' is ablaze:

Day Air attack on TF at 34,63

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 18
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 19


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Oi, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 'lost' convoy:

Day Air attack on TF at 52,62

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Ewa, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Susana, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Edward Luckenbach, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Allied ground losses:
90 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,64

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Steel Mariner, on fire, heavy damage
AK Florence Luckenbach, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Kami attack: provided an escort to get some through. They bounced of a battleship!!

Day Air attack on TF, near Wasile at 41,69

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 17
A6M5c Zeke x 21
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 32

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 12
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 4
P-38J Lightning x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 17 destroyed
A6M5c Zeke: 12 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 32 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 damaged
P-40N Warhawk: 3 destroyed
P-38J Lightning: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-241
BB Colorado, Kamikaze hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent several TFs around the area to create false targets for the enemy:

Day Air attack on TF at 37,60

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 20
F6F Hellcat x 83
F4U-1D Corsair x 16
Corsair IV x 6
SB2C Helldiver x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Koshu Maru #3
PC Takuna Maru #7, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Otake Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It bagged us a few enemy ac:

Day Air attack on TF at 37,60

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 7
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 2
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 14
SB2C Helldiver x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 5 destroyed
SB2C Helldiver: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 33,61

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 34
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 18

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 34,62

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Udo Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 34,61

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 5

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Fumishima Maru
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 37,61

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 11

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Tarushima Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 34,63

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 14
TBM Avenger x 32

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Oi, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few minor raids to 'test' the enemys defenses:

Day Air attack on TF at 35,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 5
Ki-21 Sally x 3

Allied aircraft - this is a true Uber CAP!
FM-2 Wildcat x 124
F6F Hellcat x 260
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
Corsair IV x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 5 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 40,67

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 4

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 4
P-38J Lightning x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 35,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 2
Ki-21 Sally x 4

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 124
F6F Hellcat x 260
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
Corsair IV x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Engagement south of Tarakan!

We can still surprise the enemy at night! Long Lance Menace [8D]
Our heavy cruisers reached Balikpapan and will replenish in Java and act as a
raiding force.



[image]local://upfiles/1466/743E9A136FA84255B9BDCB64103970C9.jpg[/image]




pauk -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 1:52:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
Allied aircraft - this is a true Uber CAP!
FM-2 Wildcat x 124
F6F Hellcat x 260
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
Corsair IV x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 5 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged


IMHO, Andy is pushing too hard at the moment. while i can understand he is dissapointed whit fact that is possible to outproduce Allies, i don't give him a credit for asking for Corsairs on the carriers until is more than a clear that he really run out of the Hellcats!

I'm with Chez here (as usual, most excellent analysis) - he is pushing too hard and when he hit the wall he is looking for even more powerful toys to enable his time schedule continues as he planed...

Andy is good player and nice guy, but i say NO - Allies should be penaltised because Brits are out of the war. But i do understand him - he wasn't a guy who lost India and feels he shouldn't be penaltised....




bbbf -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 2:29:05 AM)

He might not have been the one that lost India, but he took the game on in that state.

He has enough LBA to have caused enough mayhem to enable him to advance. He was impatient, and is paying the price in now being limited by his previous actions.

In contrast to battles in the Solomons, etc. Andy is at the end of a long string of supply, he needed to be a little conservative and rebuild after his last setback. Instead he has relied on the supposed invincibility of the USN Deathstar, and has found it has limitations.

This is a similar situation to when PzB lost KB first time around, you have so much force sitting around you feel you have to committ it to combat - even when the odds have probably swung back to favour the other player.

Sometimes being aggressive is not a good thing!


As to Marine Corsairs on carriers - they will only be Carrier Capable so should suffer higher ops losses anyway. I don't think their use will swing things too far, but I wouldn't allow it holus bolus either. Only on fleet carriers, not CVL or CVE. Still strong, but maybe leaves some opportunities on lighter forces.







pauk -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 9:30:52 AM)

agreed here. We all know that game moves too fast, this is one of the most serious complaints to the game. What you and Chez said - Andy goes too far counting on invincible Death Star (and you are again right - not once Japanese player found their DS is not invincible, they found and there realised that only words can describe KB is Invincible Armada[:'(][:D]).

In my games, I found myself self-restraining and restricting to use KB in dangerous missions even in middle-latte 42 (without LBA cover, near enemy hornet nests with LBA) because i know KB isn't invincible, no matter what people thinks. That forced me stand and fortify and prepare for defence - which is quite historical. I didn't want to lose my CVs for nothing and then surrender.

He lost and he didn't expect that so he doesn't bother with expanding AFs, perhaps he even didn't bother to bring enough suplies to the first line base for a longer struggle because he count on success.

And now he found this will delay him even more and put all his plan about historical advancing in the danger.

He used regular, MacArthur's strategy for avoiding most strongest bases - but he streched strategy more than engine can handle it - some bases on central PNG aren't conquered even yet! His supply depots are thousand miles away - PM? Kwajelein, Rabaul - even a mighty USA should have logistic problems with that....his big ports are even further - the closest i think is Sidney? Allies should have trouble with R&R too (remember, their fleet is weakened by the absence of the Brits and PzB decimated his forces too earlier in the game)

Again, there is nothing wrong with strategy - if we consider this game as a game (and we have to because PzB conquered the India, so lets be honest) - he could choose to sail right to the Saigon or Okinawa or Taipei - but we are all saying here he should pay for miscalculation and defeat.

sorry on hijacking thread too, PzB... you done a good job at the Tarakan. Oi is lost, but enemy BB was damaged and it will take a long way to bring her to the repair yards. If he chooses to keep this BB she will be torpedo magnet for your subs and LBA! BANZAI!




aztez -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 10:29:18 AM)

That surface ended quite nicely for you PzB! Congrats! [:)]




AmiralLaurent -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 10:36:26 AM)

PzB, it seems to me that as IRL kamikazes are not useful against BB, they will put some fires and destroy some AA guns but in most of the cases the ship will remain operationnal.

IMOO if you think there is a BB with a weak CAP you should try to use elite torpedo units, while kamikaze should be used against CV/CVE and other soft skin targets.

It seems to me that Andy sailed south, so a surface raid would have led to nothing. Your raiding force was not lost in vain, especially as the two CA escaped undamaged

I notice that in one of the above skirmishes, Frank and Zeke won against F6F by 5 to 2. A minor victory, but nevertheless a sign that Andy's CV air units are in bad shape.

As for using Marine Corsairs aboard CVs, it was done IRL, when the kamikaze threat grew, so why deny it to Andy ? Especially if he only uses F4U1-D, and not the early model of Corsair (that was not able to operate from CVs before the Brits modified it).





pauk -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 11:18:02 AM)

do you perhaps know from when?

Andy and i had disscussion (well it wasnt discussion cause i agreed with him) about placing Corsairs on CVs and CVEs. He said he will start to upgrade CV groups from 1.44. max to 10 airgroups (start with 4 and every next month one group more). Also, after kamikazes strikes it is allowed to upgrade CVEs to Corsairs to (or from 45)...

i don't have anything against that because we playing PDU and stricly historical limitation with Corsairs wouldn't be fair (i think that Andy was quite generous!) especially after i used PDU to the max!

PzB&Andy game is another matter, with "historical" upgrades so i think that some restrictions would be needed (based on RL). This may be counter that kamikazes are activated earlier than historical and achived good results but it is not PzB who activated them.... I'm not sure about historical schedules of Corsairs on American CVs so i could be wrong......




Fishbed -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 3:00:25 PM)

quote:

Japanese Ships
CL Oi, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Torpedo whore 1 is dead, but Torpedo whore 2 will live on to fight back another day. Long live long lances! [:D][;)]




PzB74 -> RE: The Coming Battle (8/9/2006 10:32:27 PM)

Not so sure Andy needs Corsairs to counter Kamis..yet. He has told me
that he will not deploy any of his '10 Sqds' yet. We will discuss it in
a few months and review the situation then. When I get hundreds of Kamis he may
actually need them!? [;)]

Trying not to intercept enemy bb's with 'light' Kamis - but sometimes the battlewagons
just pop up and my pilots are drawn towards them like gnats towards fire [8|]
Would like to see a torpedo ladden Betty hit the New Jersey though [:D]

I'm trying to husband my forces and airlift reinforcements to Borneo. Tarakan, Samarinda
and Balikpapan are now reasonably well defended. Few mines though, my MLs never got
to this region.

While not unhappy with the surface combat, the cruiser squadron is now several destroyers short.
Will try to move 4 to Java asap!

Manouvering!

This is the position of the fleets: I suspect heavy B-29 strikes
against key targets in Borneo tomorrow.

Carrier TF with Taiho, 2 cvl, 3 cve carries some 150 Zekes on CAP.


[image]local://upfiles/1466/BF5AA71AA2FD4F24964EA485BDEB4CEE.jpg[/image]




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