Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (Full Version)

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fbastos -> Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:11:00 AM)

I was thinking about the thread with the "coolest" ship names, when I thought of "uncoolest" names. It struck me to find this one particularly not cool:

CVB42 Franklin D Roosevelt

It was the first attempt to stop giving famous battle place names for carriers, and brought the politics in. A decade later you got the politicians like a flood: John F Kenned, Nimitz, Einsenhower, Carl Vinson, etc...

Never again there will a carrier with a beautiful name like Yorktown or Lexington, but only the memory of politicians that were only doing the job they were elected or chosen to do.

Regards,
F.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:18:01 AM)

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names. But I see you're point, naming ships for polititcians, beauracrats and non historical geographical names is simply friggin' boring in my opinion.



waynec -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:19:57 AM)

yes it's too bad. even have an ssn named jimmy carter. otoh we have an ffg named after samuel b roberts (a de of leyte gulf fame) that ate an exocet in the gulf during the tanker war and some of the ddg-51's are named after important folks (like ddg-63 uss stethem named after the navy diver murdered by arab terrorists during a plane hijacking in the med). of course the cg-47 ticonderogas are named after famous us battles.

[image]local://upfiles/6704/Fd933125288.jpg[/image]



madmickey -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:26:58 AM)

Do not include Nimitz with those slimy politicians.



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:30:10 AM)

quote:

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names.


That's a good point. Enterprise I can understand, as there were famous Enterprise boats before. But it completely baffles me where Ranger, Wasp and Hornet came from. Perhaps they wanted to give the carriers flying insect names starting with Wasp/Hornet, then changed their mind?

And Ranger... argh... it's an uninspired name for an uninspired ship. Perhaps named in honor of a famous boat?



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:31:46 AM)

quote:

Do not include Nimitz with those slimy politicians.


I was thinking of adding a postscript note absolving Nimitz and Einsenhower. These are two guys that really deserve a ship on their name.

Forrestal? Carl Vinson? Give me a break... :)



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:32:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

quote:

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names.


That's a good point. Enterprise I can understand, as there were famous Enterprise boats before. But it completely baffles me where Ranger, Wasp and Hornet came from. Perhaps they wanted to give the carriers flying insect names starting with Wasp/Hornet, then changed their mind?

And Ranger... argh... it's an uninspired name for an uninspired ship. Perhaps named in honor of a famous boat?


All but Langley were famous Revolutionary War era ships I think.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:34:47 AM)

I'm just waiting for a USS Bill Clinton, the first fully female manned warship in the USN.



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:39:02 AM)

That seems to be permeating other US agencies too....

First you got the Hubble space telescope, what makes sense as Hubble was a great and dedicated scientist.

Now NASA gave the name James Webb to the new space telescope. Uh? Who's that guy? An administrator at NASA! So the next probe to Jupiter will honor the Human Resources director, the next one the the Budget manager, and so on.

As admiral Rickover once said when he started giving city names to submarines: "Fish don't vote!"

F.

PS: Don't have anything against city names; most are really cool - hooray Rickover!



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:43:31 AM)

quote:

All but Langley were famous Revolutionary War era ships I think.


Gotcha, thank you. I never cared to look at the DANFS for these guys. Good info.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:50:03 AM)

I'm surprised that Navy astronauts like John Young, Wally Schirra, Pete Conrad, Alan Shepard and Jim Lovell have not been honoured with probes, satellites or ships. Shepard and Conrad have both recently passed on and they friggin' deserve the honour more than some paper pushing civil servant.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:54:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

That seems to be permeating other US agencies too....

First you got the Hubble space telescope, what makes sense as Hubble was a great and dedicated scientist.

Now NASA gave the name James Webb to the new space telescope. Uh? Who's that guy? An administrator at NASA! So the next probe to Jupiter will honor the Human Resources director, the next one the the Budget manager, and so on.

As admiral Rickover once said when he started giving city names to submarines: "Fish don't vote!"

F.

PS: Don't have anything against city names; most are really cool - hooray Rickover!


Who cares about the votes. Do ya think the thevoters in the state of Connecticut paid more than any other tax payers to get a Seawolf Class SSN named after it? Isn't New London and Electric Boat enough of a bloody kickback over the decades?



eMonticello -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 5:59:35 AM)

(first) Ranger (commissioned 1777) - 24-gun sloop-of-war commanded by John Paul Jones from 1777-1778. It was the first US ship to be saluted by the French and the first US ship to defeat a British Royal Navy ship, HMS Blake during the American Revolutionary War.
Named to commemorate five US warships which had previously borne the name. "Ranger" means "one who wanders; military scout."

(first) USS Enterprise (commissioned 1799) - 14-gun brig-of-war defeated 12-gun brig-sloop HMS Boxer on 5 September 1813.
Named to commemorate six US warships which had previously borne the name. "Enterprise" means "boldness, energy, and invention in practical affairs."

(first) USS Wasp (commissioned 1806) - 18-gun sloop-of-war defeated 18-gun brig-sloop HMS Frolic on 18 September 1812.
Named to commemorate seven US warships which had previously borne the name. A "Wasp" is "any of numerous winged hymenopterous insects possessing smooth, slender bodies, and an abdomen attached by a narrow stalk. They have well-developed wings, biting mouthparts, and often administer painful stings."

(first) USS Hornet (commissioned 1806) - 18-gun sloop-of-war defeated 18-gun brig-sloop HMS Penguin on 23 March 1815.
Named to commemorate six US warships which had previously borne the name. A "Hornet" is "a large strong wasp whose sting is severe."

USS Langley - Named after Samuel Pierpont Langley (1834-1906), American astronomer, physicist, and pioneer in the development of heavier-than-air craft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

quote:

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names.


That's a good point. Enterprise I can understand, as there were famous Enterprise boats before. But it completely baffles me where Ranger, Wasp and Hornet came from. Perhaps they wanted to give the carriers flying insect names starting with Wasp/Hornet, then changed their mind?

And Ranger... argh... it's an uninspired name for an uninspired ship. Perhaps named in honor of a famous boat?

Below is the only photo of a boat named "Enterprise".
1930: Enterprise, United States def. Shamrock V, Ireland 4-0 at Newport.

[image]local://upfiles/5926/Nk279768353.jpg[/image]



The Gnome -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:00:10 AM)

I'm just waiting for some corporation to pay for the naming rights, like sports fields.

DDG Fed EX
CG Microsoft
CVN Burger King



Platoonist -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:05:23 AM)

I'm just thankful the US got away from those deathly dull S-numbers for submarines. Leave the lack of imagination to the Axis with their U-Boats and I-Boats.... The U-333 just went missing in the South Atlantic Admiral Donitz. Huh? The what? The who? Let me look that one up in my Rolodex.



jnier -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:07:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: waynec

even have an ssn named jimmy carter.



Jimmy Carter is the only president who was actually a submariner. So it's not a stretch to name a sub after him.

But agreed that in general the politician/bureaucrat thing is terrible. Did Ronald Reagan or Harry Truman ever serve on an aircraft carrier?



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:08:34 AM)

quote:

(first) Ranger - 24-gun sloop-of-war commanded by John Paul Jones from 1776-1778.
Named to commemorate five US warships which had previously borne the name. "Ranger" means "one who wanders; military scout."

(first) USS Enterprise - 14-gun brig-of-war defeated 12-gun brig-sloop HMS Boxer on 5 September 1813.
Named to commemorate six US warships which had previously borne the name. "Enterprise" means "boldness, energy, and invention in practical affairs."

(first) USS Wasp - 18-gun sloop-of-war defeated 18-gun brig-sloop HMS Frolic on 18 September 1812.
Named to commemorate seven US warships which had previously borne the name. A "Wasp" is "any of numerous winged hymenopterous insects possessing smooth, slender bodies, and an abdomen attached by a narrow stalk. They have well-developed wings, biting mouthparts, and often administer painful stings."

(first) USS Hornet - 14-gun brig-of-war defeated 18-gun brig-sloop HMS Penguin on 23 March 1815.
Named to commemorate six US warships which had previously borne the name. A "Hornet" is "a large strong wasp whose sting is severe."

USS Langley - Named after Samuel Pierpont Langley (1834-1906), American astronomer, physicist, and pioneer in the development of heavier-than-air craft.


Good stuff! Thank you.

F.



eMonticello -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:10:41 AM)

fbastos,

I checked another source and updated the information. Wasp and Hornet were sisterships, so they are both sloop-of-wars.



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:21:15 AM)

quote:

Perhaps they wanted to give the carriers flying insect names starting with Wasp/Hornet, then changed their mind?


Now this sounds completely dumb... [:D]

Living and learning!



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:22:31 AM)

quote:

. Did Ronald Reagan or Harry Truman ever serve on an aircraft carrier?


Trumman was an artillery officer during WW1, I think so.



jnier -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 6:36:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Who cares about the votes. Do ya think the thevoters in the state of Connecticut paid more than any other tax payers to get a Seawolf Class SSN named after it? Isn't New London and Electric Boat enough of a bloody kickback over the decades?


Actually there isn't much submarine infrastructure left in New London. It's nearly all in Groton now (the Sub Base and Electric Boat). And appartently the kickbacks were not enough, because there was the USS Groton (SSN 694) in addition to the Connecticut. [;)]



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 7:01:08 AM)

By the way, I always found it odd that Newport News produced so many quality boats through the years, but the one named precisely to honor them (CA148 Newport News) was specially plagued by all kinds of troubles during its operational life!

Who understands.. :)

F



Cmdrcain -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 9:39:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

I was thinking about the thread with the "coolest" ship names, when I thought of "uncoolest" names. It struck me to find this one particularly not cool:

CVB42 Franklin D Roosevelt

It was the first attempt to stop giving famous battle place names for carriers, and brought the politics in. A decade later you got the politicians like a flood: John F Kenned, Nimitz, Einsenhower, Carl Vinson, etc...

Never again there will a carrier with a beautiful name like Yorktown or Lexington, but only the memory of politicians that were only doing the job they were elected or chosen to do.

Regards,
F.



Nimitz a Politican?

Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?

And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...

Carl Vinson was a Politican?



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 9:40:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

I was thinking about the thread with the "coolest" ship names, when I thought of "uncoolest" names. It struck me to find this one particularly not cool:

CVB42 Franklin D Roosevelt

It was the first attempt to stop giving famous battle place names for carriers, and brought the politics in. A decade later you got the politicians like a flood: John F Kenned, Nimitz, Einsenhower, Carl Vinson, etc...

Never again there will a carrier with a beautiful name like Yorktown or Lexington, but only the memory of politicians that were only doing the job they were elected or chosen to do.

Regards,
F.



Nimitz a Politican?

Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?

And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...

Carl Vinson was a Politican?


Carl Vinson was SecNav.



fbastos -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 10:18:22 AM)

quote:

Nimitz a Politican?

Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?

And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...

Carl Vinson was a Politican?


I wrote somewhere above that I would absolve Nimitz and Eisenhower from being political namings... but now I'm not so sure about Eisenhower. Several other CVNs are named after presidents, Nimitz is named after an Admiral and no other ship is named after a General. I suspect that being a dead president is what bore the greatest weight, but then who knows.

Naming a ship after Carl Vinson (rather than say Woodrow Wilson or Ulysses Grant) was definitely a political option to please someone. Outside of the military establishment, Mr. Carl Vinson and Forrestal had very little impact, and I personally would never know about Carl Vinson if it wasn't for the ship.

F

PS: No offense intended to Carl Vinson and Forrestal. I just think it's too much a privilege already for them to just do the jobs they were chosen to do.



DBS -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 10:41:35 AM)

The appalling naming habits of the latter-day USN notwithstanding, at least they are not as bad as one of Churchill's dafter ideas. As First Lord of the Admiralty before WW1, he kept trying to persuade His Majesty that a good name for a battleship would be HMS Oliver Cromwell. King George V was perfectly happy to have a ship named after himself, but absolutely refused to approve one named for a chap who thought it a good idea to cut off the head of a reigning monarch....



steveh11Matrix -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 12:40:47 PM)

Seems like a good idea to me...

(One of his nicknames was 'Ironsides')

Steve.



pry -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 1:20:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker



Nimitz a Politican?

Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?

And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...

Carl Vinson was a Politican?


Carl Vinson was SecNav.


Ron at least get his job right will ya [;)] (Canadians think they know everything [:-])

CONGRESSMAN Carl Vinson of Georgia, did more to help the US armed forces especially the US Navy that any other elected politician in the 20th century.

Serving 50+ years, 29 of those as the chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Armed Services Committee. Author of the Vinson - Trammel Act, better known as the Two Ocean Navy Act just prior to the outbreak of WWII, he also championed naval Avaitaion and also pushed thru the funding that allowed Rickover to play with nukes on submarines. He was a friend of the Navy on the hill for his entire tenure in congress.

If ANY politician ever deserved a ship named after them Congressman Vinson certainly did for his tireless efforts on behalf of the US Navy during 50+ years of public service.



Chris21wen -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 1:25:51 PM)

[:D]Enterprise is the by favourite, but do we really want to go where no one has gone before.



Bodhi -> RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names (8/19/2004 2:14:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pry
Serving 50+ years, 29 of those as the chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Armed Services Committee.


Good job they didn't have term limits then.



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