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There's a solution to every problem; it's simply a question of how much you are willing to allow your head to hurt for said solution. Didn't we say something about drink?

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ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Always ready for a refreshing beverage....anyone besides me think those look like three pints of Guiness?

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ORIGINAL: moses

Here's a crazy idea which probably can't be done. But I'll throw it out anyway as who knows. First disallow all retreats!! The only way anyone leaves a hex is voluntarily or he is destoyed. Secondly say your the allies with no forts and your are attcaked at 3-1 odds. Now your fort level goes to negative 2. Any future combat you fight at a disadvantage of some type. You get attacked next turn at 4-1. Now your fort level goes down to negative 6. And so on. At some point your fighting at such a disadvantage that you'd be better off retreating. Or you can just wait until you are destroyed.

Lots of details to be worked out. Just a thought.

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First disallow all retreats!! The only way anyone leaves a hex is voluntarily or he is destoyed. Secondly say your the allies with no forts and your are attcaked at 3-1 odds. Now your fort level goes to negative 2. Any future combat you fight at a disadvantage of some type. You get attacked next turn at 4-1. Now your fort level goes down to negative 6. And so on. At some point your fighting at such a disadvantage that you'd be better off retreating. Or you can just wait until you are destroyed.

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Then you end up with a Malay drive at the convenience of the Allied player.

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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No. Ron is saying it has ONE "freebie" retreat. If it can beat and retreat the enemy units in the hex to which it retreated, it gets to move freely again. If it loses again, it dies.

It still ping pongs, look at the other side ... not just the retreating unit.

Unit A fights B in hex 1

B looses and retreats to hex 2

B fights C in hex 2

C looses and retreats to hex 3

D happens to be in hex 3 and isn't happy [:D]

Now potentially, 3 hexes have had there supply chain messed with.

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ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Back to basics.

Current problem:
1. Any unit can disallow retreats by forcing surrender or elimination. This can be gamey.
2. If we disallow blocking forces, any unit can retreat. This is very gamey.
3. Any currently proposed solution can allow either the former (ZOC's) or the latter (no ZOC's, retreats without "flags", AV requirements). This is gamey by both above definitions.

Desired result:
Small units with pointy sticks should be unable to stop the retreat of large units with lots of big guns.[:D]

Proposed solutions:
1. No ZOC's. Already tried and not helpful.
2. ZOC's only. Already tried and not helpful.[:D]
3. Retreat "flags". Requires redefining of ZOC's and retreat paths. Possible with potential coding headaches and unforseen issues.
4. ZOC's by AV threshold. Possible with potential coding headaches and unforseen issues.
*NEW* 5. Unit values. Use fatigue, disruption, and AV to generate an, as of now, nebulous value. Said nebulous value must reach a certain ration when compared to that of the enemy to block retreats. This is a good idea by virtue of being undebated and not having been beat to hell yet.[:D]

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ORIGINAL: moses

Do retreats occur immediately after combat or are all combats resolved prior to retreat. In other words is it possible for a unit to be retreated into another combat.?

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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No. Ron is saying it has ONE "freebie" retreat. If it can beat and retreat the enemy units in the hex to which it retreated, it gets to move freely again. If it loses again, it dies.

It still ping pongs, look at the other side ... not just the retreating unit.

Unit A fights B in hex 1

B looses and retreats to hex 2

B fights C in hex 2

C looses and retreats to hex 3

D happens to be in hex 3 and isn't happy [:D]

Now potentially, 3 hexes have had there supply chain messed with.

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ORIGINAL: moses

Actually my question make no sence because currently you can't retreat into a contested hex and so you can't retreat into combat.[:'(]

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ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

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ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Back to basics.

Current problem:
1. Any unit can disallow retreats by forcing surrender or elimination. This can be gamey.
2. If we disallow blocking forces, any unit can retreat. This is very gamey.
3. Any currently proposed solution can allow either the former (ZOC's) or the latter (no ZOC's, retreats without "flags", AV requirements). This is gamey by both above definitions.

Desired result:
Small units with pointy sticks should be unable to stop the retreat of large units with lots of big guns.[:D]

Proposed solutions:
1. No ZOC's. Already tried and not helpful.
2. ZOC's only. Already tried and not helpful.[:D]
3. Retreat "flags". Requires redefining of ZOC's and retreat paths. Possible with potential coding headaches and unforseen issues.
4. ZOC's by AV threshold. Possible with potential coding headaches and unforseen issues.
*NEW* 5. Unit values. Use fatigue, disruption, and AV to generate an, as of now, nebulous value. Said nebulous value must reach a certain ration when compared to that of the enemy to block retreats. This is a good idea by virtue of being undebated and not having been beat to hell yet.[:D]

5 is much as I suggested without the unit actually entering its hex.

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ORIGINAL: moses

For options 4 and 5 you still have to have a base hex to retreat to. Otherwise you get the situation where your units retreat behind the enemy lines. Enemy moves into your hex from the south but has no unit in the hex he came from so you retreat into that hex.

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ORIGINAL: moses

Anytime a unit is allowed to retreat into a contested hex you have the potential that it will be involved in multiple combats in one turn. I guess theoretically under your option 5 a unit could be retreated 3 times in a turn and end up 180 miles from where it started.

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To arrive at an equitable solution that we can't deliberately break under current engine limitations.