RE: MWIF Game Interface Design

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (Full Version)

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Bradley62 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/5/2009 12:24:16 AM)
Youtube has higher res, some of the HOI3 vids are quite impressive and seem to be drumming up more excitement for its release. Just as well looking forward to this.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/5/2009 1:04:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bradley62 Youtube has higher res, some of the HOI3 vids are quite impressive and seem to be drumming up more excitement for its release. Just as well looking forward to this. Marketing decisions are up to Matrix Games, I'm just the contract programmer.[;)] "A man's gotta know his limitations."

micheljq -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/6/2009 1:50:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bradley62 Youtube has higher res, some of the HOI3 vids are quite impressive and seem to be drumming up more excitement for its release. Just as well looking forward to this. Is it videos taken from the actual game? --> videos screenshots?

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/6/2009 6:23:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: micheljq quote: ORIGINAL: Bradley62 Youtube has higher res, some of the HOI3 vids are quite impressive and seem to be drumming up more excitement for its release. Just as well looking forward to this. Is it videos taken from the actual game? --> videos screenshots? Yes. MWIF is executing the entire time the videos are being created. The first 5 chapters are viewing the Picture and Text tutorials so there isn't a "game in progress". But for the other 6 there is a game real game being used to explain things. Each of the latter chapters uses a different game, because I have different features I want to demonstrate/explicate. After I have finished the Training Video, I am going to create the Interactive Tutorials to match. Theoretically, after viewing the Training Video you will be able to recreate the same steps yourself using the keyboard and mouse. At one time I was thnking of using the Interactive Tutorials as a starting point for a game, and then let the player play the game from that point. Of course you could do that simply by restoring the saved game(s) that the Interactive Tutorials use as a starting point. However, I am not going to go to the bother of trying to get all the units 'properly' placed on the map. Instead, I am going to have the beta testers create some "Instant Start" games, where they have set up all the units on the map in reasonable places. What makes this effort so imprecise are all the optional rules. If the Instant Start game is/isn't using an optional rule that you consider important, then it won't serve its intended purpose. But there is no easy solution to that. The program needs to know what the ooptional rule set is before it begins the game, since the optional rules affect dozens of elements when MWIF 'creates' a new game.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/11/2009 2:23:02 AM)
I just placed the symbols for a hex that is beign invaded by air and/or sea lower on the counters so they do not overlie the other information. As perhaps is obvious, here the Para unit has just paradropped and the Motorized has just invaded from a naval transport (amphibiuous optional rule not in play). Notice the Selectable units list in the upper left, which shows the 3 naval units that can provide shore bombardment. EDIT: also notice the odds ratio shown in the message bar of the main form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1ADE51BE551248AFB28190C9B8D21173.jpg[/image]

Anendrue -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/11/2009 1:30:23 PM)
Very nice and concise.

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/11/2009 9:56:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I just placed the symbols for a hex that is beign invaded by air and/or sea lower on the counters so they do not overlie the other information. As perhaps is obvious, here the Para unit has just paradropped and the Motorized has just invaded from a naval transport (amphibiuous optional rule not in play). Notice the Selectable units list in the upper left, which shows the 3 naval units that can provide shore bombardment. Nice quote: EDIT: also notice the odds ratio shown in the message bar of the main form. This show 3 combat factors for the defender, which looks like it is wrong. From what I can see, the notional has 2 combat factors : 1 basic combat point plus 1 for being in a german unit ZoC. Edit : replaced the mistplaced quote marker.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/12/2009 12:57:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I just placed the symbols for a hex that is beign invaded by air and/or sea lower on the counters so they do not overlie the other information. As perhaps is obvious, here the Para unit has just paradropped and the Motorized has just invaded from a naval transport (amphibiuous optional rule not in play). Notice the Selectable units list in the upper left, which shows the 3 naval units that can provide shore bombardment. Nice quote: EDIT: also notice the odds ratio shown in the message bar of the main form. This show 3 combat factors for the defender, which looks like it is wrong. From what I can see, the notional has 2 combat factors : 1 basic combat point plus 1 for being in a german unit ZoC. There is a second point for the adjacent corp defender and a third for the invasion coming out of the 2 sea area section box (the US transport - partially visible).

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/12/2009 8:13:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp This show 3 combat factors for the defender, which looks like it is wrong. From what I can see, the notional has 2 combat factors : 1 basic combat point plus 1 for being in a german unit ZoC. There is a second point for the adjacent corp defender and a third for the invasion coming out of the 2 sea area section box (the US transport - partially visible). This is OK then.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 9:05:56 AM)
I have created a new form for Replacement Naval units. It isn't quite done yet - I want the Location information to refelct where the current unit is and where the replacement unit will start out. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1CEC87C8511B43D981AE929B2EF1FF57.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 10:12:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I have created a new form for Replacement Naval units. It isn't quite done yet - I want the Location information to refelct where the current unit is and where the replacement unit will start out. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1CEC87C8511B43D981AE929B2EF1FF57.jpg[/image] Warspite1 Steve - yes those additions would be a nice to have. Is it also worth putting in the cost and timescale for completion of the replacement? I may be wrong (and ignore this if I am!) but I thought the cost that appears on the replacement counter is not what it costs a player to replace a unit - which is a lesser sum (I didn`t think it went throught two cycles)? Also, will this box automatically appear when a replacement is available the first time or is it for the player to check for these as and when he wants to?

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 1:38:21 PM)
This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 : Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters. I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy.

micheljq -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 2:18:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 : Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters. I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy. You mean an upgrade of a naval unit, like when they refit a battleship? In MWiF2, airplanes could also be upgraded, and tanks, etc. a suggestion. I mean you start with the Panzer IIIe, later you upgrade (for a fee) to version Panzer IIIJ. You start with the Spitfire 1, later you upgrade the airplane to Spitfire version 5, etc.

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 7:08:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: micheljq quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp This is one idea that we could keep for MWiF 2 : Given that the countermix is not restricted by printing counters, we could have multiple versions of most naval counters. I mean, we could first have the 1939 version of the ship, and then x replacement counters (using the same bitmap) that we could buy or not buy. You mean an upgrade of a naval unit, like when they refit a battleship? In MWiF2, airplanes could also be upgraded, and tanks, etc. a suggestion. I mean you start with the Panzer IIIe, later you upgrade (for a fee) to version Panzer IIIJ. You start with the Spitfire 1, later you upgrade the airplane to Spitfire version 5, etc. Well, new or improved planes, new or improved tanks, are already there with the current game. New / improved planes are here because each year new models arrive in your force pool, and new or improved tanks already exist in some form with the heavy unit rule, that allows to upgrade nearly any WiF FE land units to a "Heavy Weapons" version of the same unit. Ships on the other hand, are represented 1 per counter in WiF FE, and there is only one counter for that ship for all the game. The game provides replacement ships for some famous upgrades & reconversion (Shinano, Ise & Hyuga), but the computer game could offer the possibility to upgrade any ship. In WW2, most capital ships had improvement made to them. Sometime more gun power, most of the time more AA.

micheljq -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 7:27:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp Well, new or improved planes, new or improved tanks, are already there with the current game. New / improved planes are here because each year new models arrive in your force pool, and new or improved tanks already exist in some form with the heavy unit rule, that allows to upgrade nearly any WiF FE land units to a "Heavy Weapons" version of the same unit. Ships on the other hand, are represented 1 per counter in WiF FE, and there is only one counter for that ship for all the game. The game provides replacement ships for some famous upgrades & reconversion (Shinano, Ise & Hyuga), but the computer game could offer the possibility to upgrade any ship. In WW2, most capital ships had improvement made to them. Sometime more gun power, most of the time more AA. I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that. I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V. Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement. It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose.

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 7:54:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: micheljq I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that. I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V. Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement. It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose. Yes, but in reality, Spitfire I are not upgraded to Spitfire V. The squadron that flies Spitfire I gets Spitfire V when they are available, and the old Spitfire I are discarted or given to training squadrons. The air reserve pool and pilot rule models that very well IMO. The fact that you pick randomly the new counters for the new builts, and that the Spitfire V may be delayed compared to WW2, of may come earlier, IMO models the difference that the WW2 modeled by WiF FE have compared to real WW2. Ships are different matter, and the replacement rule works well for them. But the paper game only have a chosen amount of replacement counters where the computer game (version 2) could have more. What we'd need would be for people such as Warspite to identify all the upgrades that were done to ships during WW2, and to estimate the starting 1939 factors and estimate the factors after upgrade. Maybe only CV and BB should be subject to this, because CL and CA are too small to have their factor vary because of more guns or more armor. I mean, a 4 increased by 10% is a 4.4 when a 8 increased by 10% is 8.8.

Orm -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 8:09:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: micheljq I know but that could be modeled in another way. Actually you buy a Spitfire I, but you will never upgrade your onmap fighter to another more modern version. Instead you will buy a more modern version of the same fighter in a late year, like a Spitfire V, and it's random. No, I don't speak about that. I mean that when the Spitfire V is available, you return your Spitfire I in a repair, or upgrade pool, call it like you want, you pay some BPs, and after a couple of turn it is available for reinforcements as a Spitfire V. Likewise for a naval unit, for example, I don't know you begin with the WW1 version of a battleship, but from a certain year, you have the option of sending this BB into a refit, construction, or repair pool, and after a certain number of turns, you have the upgraded, refitted version of the BB available as reinforcement. It could be done with tanks, but rather complicated, the armor corps are not of particular model because of the scale involved I suppose. Yes, but in reality, Spitfire I are not upgraded to Spitfire V. The squadron that flies Spitfire I gets Spitfire V when they are available, and the old Spitfire I are discarted or given to training squadrons. The air reserve pool and pilot rule models that very well IMO. The fact that you pick randomly the new counters for the new builts, and that the Spitfire V may be delayed compared to WW2, of may come earlier, IMO models the difference that the WW2 modeled by WiF FE have compared to real WW2. Ships are different matter, and the replacement rule works well for them. But the paper game only have a chosen amount of replacement counters where the computer game (version 2) could have more. What we'd need would be for people such as Warspite to identify all the upgrades that were done to ships during WW2, and to estimate the starting 1939 factors and estimate the factors after upgrade. Maybe only CV and BB should be subject to this, because CL and CA are too small to have their factor vary because of more guns or more armor. I mean, a 4 increased by 10% is a 4.4 when a 8 increased by 10% is 8.8. Many CL and CA got a heavy upgrade in AA. An upgrade with radar would then be possible.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 8:28:59 PM)
Here is the corrected Replacements form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1F7DD78E818C4EB4A769EA0CBCB92907.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 8:33:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Here is the corrected Replacements form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1F7DD78E818C4EB4A769EA0CBCB92907.jpg[/image] Warspite1 So was I mistaken re the cost / time for the replacement?

Orm -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 8:35:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Here is the corrected Replacements form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1F7DD78E818C4EB4A769EA0CBCB92907.jpg[/image] Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced? Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that?

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 9:37:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Here is the corrected Replacements form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1F7DD78E818C4EB4A769EA0CBCB92907.jpg[/image] Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced? Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that? I cleaned that up after I posted the screen shot. What the two headings say now are: Current location is ... and Arrives in ...

Orm -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2009 9:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Here is the corrected Replacements form. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1F7DD78E818C4EB4A769EA0CBCB92907.jpg[/image] Does the following line mean that the new location for the replaced ship would be the construnction pool if the ship is replaced? Replacement Unit Location = Constuction pool If so, could that be expressed clearer by saying "new location" or "after replacement" or something like that? I cleaned that up after I posted the screen shot. What the two headings say now are: Current location is ... and Arrives in ... Awesome! [&o]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2009 12:28:05 AM)
Here's another new form. I wanted a form dedicated to answering just this question. It doesn't come up very often, which is partially my motivation for making it as simple as possible. The only time you see this ofrm is when a country has been conquered and the die roll means that a naval unit has a new owner: either captured by the enemy or its control transferred to an ally (as shown here). One cute thing about this form is that as you click on the different flags, the unit display changes (as shown at the bottom). [image]local://upfiles/16701/72A27C3708E84DB8A82C4C0F32D813E1.jpg[/image]

composer99 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 5:05:10 PM)
This sort of thing can also happen when you overrun face-down naval units. The example shown seems a bit unusual, though: normally you only get to pick which country gets a naval unit when you are the conquering side. The Polish destroyer flotilla would automatically be a CW unit, since CW aligns Poland, upon the conquest of Poland, unless it is captured by Germany or sunk. Unless I am wrong (don't have access to rules or time to look them up online).

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 5:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 This sort of thing can also happen when you overrun face-down naval units. The example shown seems a bit unusual, though: normally you only get to pick which country gets a naval unit when you are the conquering side. The Polish destroyer flotilla would automatically be a CW unit, since CW aligns Poland, upon the conquest of Poland, unless it is captured by Germany or sunk. Unless I am wrong (don't have access to rules or time to look them up online). Yes. I believe the circumstance here is that the Polish unit was bottomed in a port attack, so it was in the repair pool when Poland was conquered.

macgregor -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 7:40:38 PM)
I noticed this replacement unit for the Gneisenau, which I imagine assumes the Germans replace the 11" guns with 15-inchers, plus upgrades to the AA guns(re-adjusting the radar for slow moving biplanes) but I could not find anything about this kind of naval upgrade in the rules. Is this something that comes with one of the new addons? Naturally I think it's a great idea. I'm just not aware of it.

Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 8:11:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: macgregor I noticed this replacement unit for the Gneisenau, which I imagine assumes the Germans replace the 11" guns with 15-inchers, plus upgrades to the AA guns(re-adjusting the radar for slow moving biplanes) but I could not find anything about this kind of naval upgrade in the rules. Is this something that comes with one of the new addons? Naturally I think it's a great idea. I'm just not aware of it. Here is the relevant part of RAW that deals with replacement naval units : ************************************* 4.1.4 Replacement naval units (SiF option 9) A few naval units have a gold box around their availability year. In a later year, replacement units will turn up for these units. Their availability year will also be shown in a gold box. If the original unit has been removed from the game when the replacement unit arrives, remove the replacement unit from the game. Otherwise, during any reinforcement step, you can remove the original unit from the game and add the replacement unit. Put the replacement unit in the force pool if the original unit is either in the force pool or face-down on the production circle; or Put the replacement unit in the construction pool if the original unit is in: ï the repair pool, ï the construction pool, ï on the map, or ï face-up on the production circle. ************************************* Available replacement naval units in WiF FE : French CL De Grasse replaced by CVL De Grasse in 1940 French CL Guichen replaced by CVL Guichen in 1941 German CA Seydlitz replaced by CVL Seydlitz in 1942 German BB Gneisenau upgunned in 1940 German BB Scharnhorst upgunned in 1941 Japanese BB Hyuga replaced by CV Hyuga in 1942 Japanese BB Ise replaced by CV Ise in 1942 Japanese BB Shinano replaced by CV Shinano (2 possibilities) in 1942 Japanese BB Karyu replaced by CV Karyu (2 possibilities) in 1943 The Schnarhorst & Gneisenau upgrades came up with the latest CS23 in 2007 2 years ago.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 9:56:16 PM)
I decided it was moderately insane to not include a list of the objective hexes and who controls them - as part of the Victory Totals. Here is my first pass on this. The scenario is Barbarossa. Notice that some cities appear twice because they are counted twice (e.g., Moscow). [image]local://upfiles/16701/5EEF22A061CD47D382665167EFCAB45A.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 9:59:17 PM)
Here is Fascist Tide, some time towards the beginning of the scenario. I am going to remove the label in the upper left and replace it with the scenario name and turn (e.g., Sept/Oct 1939). Notice that when a victory hex is awarded to two major powers (e.g., Antwerp) I need to shortened the names of the major powers. [image]local://upfiles/16701/AFD1305DB068409FBDF00E6D164056BD.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2009 10:00:55 PM)
Here is the other scenario that is limited to half of the world. Another problem I have is the very long names for some objective hex (e.g., Rabual). I'll have to shorten those too. [image]local://upfiles/16701/1A3D6480713244F79CF668BA26C950A8.jpg[/image]

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